I'm playing the story I want to, and i'm being punished for it

[Idali]

All in all if you are playing your own story.

 

 

This is the point, you are not. The game doesn't lets you. You are playing the story of your class, nothing else. Lime everyone else with the same class, you are having the same story, just the way and results vary slightly. But that is it. Its the story BW designed for your class, not your own.

[grania]

I'm happiest when I feel like I can make light or dark choices whenever I want to. And it isn't ideal for me to play a character that is chronically mean and nasty or vice versa.

 

But it seemed to me that Bioware really wants us to pick one or the other and I definitely don't want to gimp myself, so I've decided that for now, it's best I play the way they are wanting me to and just enjoy the story I'm being told. Maybe sometime in the future I'll be able to play a character for which I have to make real choices in order to keep my alignment just the way I want it.

[Seyyal]

first of all there is neutral gear in the game.. its every peice of gear including drops, crafted, pvp, commendation, operation, flashpoint sets etc. and the top end stuff isnt going to be better or worse than the light/dark stuff.

 

Secondly as far as relics go you may be correct but complaining that the Auction house doesnt have any , neutral relics doesnt mean much. the game is 9-14 days old.

 

Thirdly staying strictly neutral isnt playing your way either.

 

I play my BH as i feel the situation dictates, and im light 3 now (with almost 3,000 dark points) against me.

 

 

Playing neutral by picking choices you dont want to make is just as artificial as someone picking all dark or light.

 

Lastly ,OP, you stated your self that the matrix relics are available to you. so go get those.

[jaminLaw]

I don't really agree with the notion of players being punished over this, but I would think it was cool if they did set some rewards for choosing both light and dark and winding up in the middle. I may be wrong, but wasn't there "gray gear" in KOTOR 2 that required being neutral?

The Sith might see the notion as being chaotic while the Jedi could see it as that old Gray Jedi folklore that they already established. I say do it.

[BrigOrion]

 

What exactly is the appeal of playing a neutral character in the Star Wars universe?

 

 

MMOs are about player choices. If you don't have any freedom to make your own choices, you might as well be reading a novel or playing a simple console game. SWTOR is severely lacking in choices. I've played many different MMOs over the past dozen years, and I've never before played one where I was so restricted in my options as I am in SWTOR. Only STO came as close, and look what happened there.

Edited December 29, 2011 by BrigOrion

[jasoncollins]

do not listen to him bioware choices always will have rewards or punishment

taking the netural path is like taking the cowards way out

[resistentialist]

 

What exactly is the appeal of playing a neutral character in the Star Wars universe?

 

My attraction to the lore and the stories has always been based around the very fundamental struggle of good vs. evil, light vs. dark, etc. It's archetypal, it's simple, it's mythic, it's all those wonderful things Lucas took from Joseph Campbell. Sure, there are neutral characters in the movies, but how often are they the characters that the story hinges on? How often are they the characters that are truly compelling in that primal, right vs. wrong sense?

 

The battle of light vs dark and good vs evil will occur regardless of the light/dark alignment of the character. Always picking light or dark options, while perfectly fine, does not capture a very complex character. This game has tons of story. It is supposed to give you hard decisions, evoke emotions, and make you really choose. If you defeat a bad guy, you can either let him live or kill him. Sure, he's valuable as a captive... but he's a monster, too. The grey character internalizes the struggle and acts based on character traits, rather than a predetermined alignment. "Pure" light and dark characters are, simply put, boring.

 

 

If anything, remove all indication of character alignment gains until after the quest is turned in, and randomize the (terrible) "good option always on top, evil always on bottom" conversation options. Make people actually think.

Edited December 29, 2011 by resistentialist

[Elloa]

I've choosen to play my character as I want. i'm either neutal or lightly darkside. I obviously have no trinket.

I agree with the OP. While it still nice to have vanity items, pets and such. While it can even be nice to have some relics that requiere a light/dark/neutral alignement, I do believe that some relics without alignement are very much needed.

[RoswellMoonshine]

The light/dark options are inconsistent to me. I've leveled 2 BH's, one who will do anything for more credits, and one who will never turn on or reveal his employer. To me the first is more dark, the second more honorable, but by being consistent to the character in my mind they have both ended up neutral.

Just a personal opinion here but at certain places the light/dark make no sense. One mission has light points for letting a guy's family get killed and dark points for letting a village starve.

Another is dark points for cleaning a planets water supply but light points for helping villagers along the coast.

I don't aim for light/dark/neutral but for a character that is consistent. From what I've seen so far except for the SI consistency=neutral.

[Kioma]

You could make it a part of your story. Walking a line, disinterested in either extreme, your character is forced to make do with what he can, relying less on equipment and more on sheer nerves and raw skill due to the tendency for manufacturers to produce tools that don't gel with his mindset...

 

That could be pretty cool, actually.

[alpha_hazard]

From a purely roleplaying perspective any neutral, or light Jedi for that matter, should not be concerned with the acquisition of things. Of course if you aren't a Jedi then things can get tricky. Maybe the bonus doesn't come in the form of gear or relics but more interesting story and dialogue options, as someone who considers all the options available you might be finding different opportunities? I don't know, I haven't gotten to relics yet so I am not sure how that really works. I just don't think you are being punished for playing the game you want to play, its just how the game is.

[Elloa]

From a purely roleplaying perspective any neutral, or light Jedi for that matter, should not be concerned with the acquisition of things. Of course if you aren't a Jedi then things can get tricky. Maybe the bonus doesn't come in the form of gear or relics but more interesting story and dialogue options, as someone who considers all the options available you might be finding different opportunities? I don't know, I haven't gotten to relics yet so I am not sure how that really works. I just don't think you are being punished for playing the game you want to play, its just how the game is.

 

The thing is that you can not use a roleplay excuse to justify a lack of gear in a raiding experiment. That's as stupid as :

 

- Why are you standing in the fire, Elloa, FFS? You make us wipe.

- But, my character got shot in her knees, so I'm only using walk and not run.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Elloa

[leiton]

If the posts in this thread are at all an accurate sampling of the community at large then it's undeniable that there is, at least, a significant percentage of subs who think they are being disadvantaged for playing as they like.

 

Lets look at three players:

 

Player 1, lets call them my wife, doesn't care at all about light vs dark or jedi/sith lore. She enjoys the game for engaging her in an interesting story and goes through it as though she were the one making the decisions. As somewhat of a goody-two-shoes she's been making mostly light choices, but at times has been surprised by the dark side icon.

 

Player 2, lets call them John (my best friend), doesn't care at all about light or dark, the jedi/sith lore and only cares about getting the best gear the fastest. As such, he's done the math and found that dark side benefits his play style the most and therefore hits "spacebar" through the cutscenes and has the alignment choices next to the reply options just so he can make sure to always hit dark side.

 

Player 3, lets call them me, cares a little about min/maxing, the jedi/sith lore, but most of all I care about enjoying the game with friends. Guided by my funky moral compass I've also chosen Light and Dark responses as I saw fit. As such I'm pretty dead even between the two and stuck in the neutral zone.

 

Which of these players is playing the game correctly? The answer should be all of them. Which of these players is at a disadvantage? The answer should be none of them.

 

There is a huge difference between being disadvantaged for being a casual player vs a hardcore player and being handicapped for not having ideals that are either the exact same or the polar opposite as BioWare writers.

Edited December 29, 2011 by leiton

[Wildfae]

I like the relics the way they are. However if you choose 4000 Worth of Darkside points and 4000 of lightside points, you should be able to equip relics that are either light OR dark. You cant wear a dark relic and a light relic, you have to choose. Does that make sense? i think thats the best way to "fix" it. Neutral relics just seem stupid.

[Jurisnoctis]

Guess what?

 

NEUTRAL GEAR AND ALIGNMENT IS A KNOWN ISSUE THAT BIOWARE SAID THEY WILL FIX

 

So unless you want to say that it's taking too long, your complaints are moot.

 

I'd give you a link but search is currently deactivated.

[Salunai]

I have seen in a couple of different places that Bioware is looking into neutral options. So I am satisfied to wait.

 

I did want to address folks who think everyone that is neutral intentionally chose the neutral path. While some may have, I think its obvious that it 'just turned out that way' for a good portion of folks who just 'played their characters'. For example, my Bounty Hunter always fulfills a contract, but avoids killing children and civilians when possible. Guess what, she's grey. Although she occasionally leans one way or the other, the end result is grey. We aren't busily balancing 'good' acts with 'bad' acts, that's just how the net result of our choices turns out.

[dashspeed]

So, you basically want choices without consequences. Too bad you are asking for that in a game 100% based on the battle between dark and light.

 

Well, technically, Smugglers and Bounty Hunters aren't supposed to have a definitive alignment.

[Arodin]

The light/dark side thing is an imperfect system.

 

By staying intentionally neutral you are only looking at a single aspect of the system and not liking the results.

 

I think this is the point people aren't understanding: those of us playing a "neutral" character are not intentionally setting out to be "neutral." We're not thinking "well, I picked dark last time so I have to pick light this time to even it out." That notion of picking dialogue options based on the alignment points is exactly what we're trying to avoid. We're responding to each decision separately, basing dialogue selections only on the story and asking the question "what would my character do here?" And as it happens, sometimes the dark option makes sense and sometimes the light option makes sense.

 

For example, I am playing an Imperial Agent who is always motivated to do what is right for the Empire. He's not evil, but he will deal with threats to the Empire ruthlessly. So when faced with a dark/light decision to kill a bunch of Empire workers just to make a point, I will pick the light-side option. Killing trained laborers who could do good work for the Empire just to prove what an evil d*** I can be does not help the Empire one bit, so my Agent won't do it. On the other hand, if I track down a Jedi who has been a thorn in the Empire's side, defeat him in combat, and then have the option to kill him or let him go, I'm going to take the dark side option and shoot him in the face. Letting the Jedi go would only be giving him the opportunity to make trouble for the Empire later.

 

Playing that way has resulted in a totally grey character, so far. Personally, I think I'm playing the character the way he should be played. My relic slots shouldn't be empty just because I'm playing a character that uses common sense when making decisions.

[Karkais]

I like the relics the way they are. However if you choose 4000 Worth of Darkside points and 4000 of lightside points, you should be able to equip relics that are either light OR dark. You cant wear a dark relic and a light relic, you have to choose. Does that make sense? i think thats the best way to "fix" it. Neutral relics just seem stupid.

 

That makes no sense to me. You cant be high in both light and dark simultaneously. That would be..illogical. However, I agree to the problems people have presented.

 

In my opinion there are two ways:

- allow 'fixing' of alignment even after you have capped out LS/DS points. Method could be a grind for all I care.

- Have better neutral gear, particularly relics. These should be introduced anyway and are propably already coming.

[UnderatedNoob]

I think this is the point people aren't understanding: those of us playing a "neutral" character are not intentionally setting out to be "neutral." We're not thinking "well, I picked dark last time so I have to pick light this time to even it out." That notion of picking dialogue options based on the alignment points is exactly what we're trying to avoid. We're responding to each decision separately, basing dialogue selections only on the story and asking the question "what would my character do here?" And as it happens, sometimes the dark option makes sense and sometimes the light option makes sense.

 

For example, I am playing an Imperial Agent who is always motivated to do what is right for the Empire. He's not evil, but he will deal with threats to the Empire ruthlessly. So when faced with a dark/light decision to kill a bunch of Empire workers just to make a point, I will pick the light-side option. Killing trained laborers who could do good work for the Empire just to prove what an evil d*** I can be does not help the Empire one bit, so my Agent won't do it. On the other hand, if I track down a Jedi who has been a thorn in the Empire's side, defeat him in combat, and then have the option to kill him or let him go, I'm going to take the dark side option and shoot him in the face. Letting the Jedi go would only be giving him the opportunity to make trouble for the Empire later.

 

Playing that way has resulted in a totally grey character, so far. Personally, I think I'm playing the character the way he should be played. My relic slots shouldn't be empty just because I'm playing a character that uses common sense when making decisions.

 

Totally agree. I made a similar thread to this one, but just noticed this thread. Well said.

[Anecdote]

I think this is the point people aren't understanding: those of us playing a "neutral" character are not intentionally setting out to be "neutral." We're not thinking "well, I picked dark last time so I have to pick light this time to even it out." That notion of picking dialogue options based on the alignment points is exactly what we're trying to avoid. We're responding to each decision separately, basing dialogue selections only on the story and asking the question "what would my character do here?" And as it happens, sometimes the dark option makes sense and sometimes the light option makes sense.

 

For example, I am playing an Imperial Agent who is always motivated to do what is right for the Empire. He's not evil, but he will deal with threats to the Empire ruthlessly. So when faced with a dark/light decision to kill a bunch of Empire workers just to make a point, I will pick the light-side option. Killing trained laborers who could do good work for the Empire just to prove what an evil d*** I can be does not help the Empire one bit, so my Agent won't do it. On the other hand, if I track down a Jedi who has been a thorn in the Empire's side, defeat him in combat, and then have the option to kill him or let him go, I'm going to take the dark side option and shoot him in the face. Letting the Jedi go would only be giving him the opportunity to make trouble for the Empire later.

 

Playing that way has resulted in a totally grey character, so far. Personally, I think I'm playing the character the way he should be played. My relic slots shouldn't be empty just because I'm playing a character that uses common sense when making decisions.

 

This. A million times this.

[CaptainOatz]

This is absolutely absurd. Your choices affect the rest of your story (that's the whole point of 'make your own story', btw, not just 'you can go light or dark') and you are complaining that they have consequences. You aren't being punished you self-entitled child, you are experiencing consequences, very mild ones at that.

 

I hope the devs are laughing at these kind of threads as much as I am. Being neutral isn't supposed to have any benefits, otherwise what's the point of going light or dark if you can be just as proficient no matter what choices you make?

Edited December 30, 2011 by CaptainOatz

[youwillburn]

Being neutral should have it's own line of gear, that REQUIRES a neutral alignment. I usually go through the decisions based on what I'd do if I was given the choice in RL and basically end up neutral.

When I first got to Kaas it kind of sucks to find I can't buy any new weapons with my commendations because they didn't offer any except alignment ones.

[nogoodtom]

This is absolutely absurd. Your choices affect the rest of your story (that's the whole point of 'make your own story', btw, not just 'you can go light or dark') and you are complaining that they have consequences. You aren't being punished you self-entitled child, you are experiencing consequences, very mild ones at that.

 

I hope the devs are laughing at these kind of threads as much as I am. Being neutral isn't supposed to have any benefits, otherwise what's the point of going light or dark if you can be just as proficient no matter what choices you make?

 

This sums up this entire issue. So you want neutral gear and relics and whatnot so you get the devs to maybe wanna put it in game. Well guess what... theres a war going on and you are gonna need to make some hard choices eventually. This game is ABOUT the extremes of both the light and the dark not the middle. If you are playing a Jedi and you see a Lightsaber with stats and a cool design you like but it needs Dark Allignment well tough luck, you're not getting it unless you make a dark shift. This is not being unfair this is being rational. If said lightsaber is called the "Dark Saber of Slaughter" or something you dont see a Jedi consular running around with it while he helps a cat out of a tree.

What I'm trying to say is that just because the items in SWTOR need an allignment requirement to be fulfilled doesn't mean you can't still live yur own story.

You can't expect the devs to change an entire aspect of the game's functionality just so you can live out that one character's story better just because you think the game should be 100% fair to all players. Guess what... this is simply never going to happen and expecting Bioware to make a major shift in the game's allignment system just for you is an unreasonable demand. I don't mean to sound callis here but it's the truth from my standpoint.

I fully understand certain classes like smuggler and Bounty Hunter would have a large ammount of players who want to play neutral and I completely understand, I believe this is totaly reasonable. All I am saying is that you need to make a shift some time. I think it's better to bite the bullet and pick a side since you can allways change your allignment anytime you feel like anyways. You can't allways get what you want but if you try sometimes you can get what you need.

[Serendistupidity]

To all that keep saying "there is the war going on and you need to pick a side" - isn't that exactly what we do in the Character Creator window? The war is going on between the Republic and the Sith Empire on the massive scale, Light/Dark Side conflicts being only the part of it for both sides.

 

For instance, in Ord Mantell there are several encounters with Republic soldiers

who entertain themselves by tormenting locals either by making them run through the mine field, or by torturing them just to make a point.

But these choices don't make them less Republic, no matter what your character feels about it. The side in the conflict is already picked, the question is what role you are going to play in it.

 

And that's where I share the OP's feeling of being stripped from opportunities. Light/neutral/Dark choices are more about choosing the means to achieve the certain goals rather than proving allegiance to your faction. On my highest Sith character in its mid-twenties I keep discovering that dialogue options that reflect the minimal thought about your assignments (which are available to anyone who plays Empire, thus not depend on alignment) will almost inevitably grant you Light Side points, what leads to leaning towards neurtal or even Light-sided Sith, the latter being mutually exclusive.

 

The invisible "rails" OP was talking about are not about relics at all for me. Choosing the storyline options you want often means being penalized for that through gameplay (gear requirements being the part of it) but not the story itself. In my opinion, this should not happen.

 

And, in my opinion, asking to equalize the neutral alignment with pure Light/Dark side one is not asking for "choices without consequences". Quite the opposite, it is asking for more consequences for being neutral.

 

Just an opinion, though.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Serendistupidity