Alfadyr Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hello everybody, I'm having a blast with my concealment operative. Great dps and survivability, but my biggest concern so far is whether to invest in 2 second root in that utility, because it really helps in pvp, but how to leave countermeasures and the cloakng screen upgrade. What do u think. Should I get the utility? On what skill did u put your points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirthadrond Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) GREAT NEWS!! You can change your mind! Currently - I'm trying the countermeasures upgrade. The root is awesome, no doubt. It's hard to gauge which is better though. I'm liking the 'anti-root' from CM, but it isn't 'always' reliable. Sometimes I'll use it, it wont fire off immediately, I'm still rooted, I get killed and then on respawn it fires off.... "oh.. thanks CM...I was seriously worried about being rooted here in the spawn room..." Edited April 10, 2015 by Mirthadrond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zZeroAgent Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) I find that Counterstrike is really important in arena, but roots can be so rampant in regs that I'd rather just go with Pin Down to make killing things easier Edited April 11, 2015 by zZeroAgent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Currently - I'm trying the countermeasures upgrade. The root is awesome, no doubt. It's hard to gauge which is better though. I find that in almost all cases counterstrike is the better utility as it will enable you to break a root and roll when you need to. If our survivability wasn't tied to roll counterstrike would be a lot less important....not that I mind the way things are...I actually like the way it is. One nice buff would be for counterstrike to also cause countermeasures to give root immunity for a few seconds, but I'm fine without it too. Either way, when I play concealment I always take counterstrike and rarely take pin down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakyoom Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 http://the-old-republic.ru/disciplines/144560253280279284286289290/en There's the build that i use. I grab the cdr on Cloak, Countermeasures root break, 3 sec snare on opener and the auto-evasion on Cloak. The top 3 are really up to you but 15% speed and 15 sec of debilitate are pretty crucial. I could see using sever tendon root if i wasn't constantly rooted myself and i'd love the get a free TA from sever tendon or something like that but i need to be able to complete my opening 7 seconds and i need to be able to use evasion separately from cloak sometimes.. As far as i'm concerned the bottom 4 are staple. perhaps you could switch the root out for 30 sec of escape but it's your job to be careful and not wish you had 30 seconds off that cd imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zZeroAgent Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I've found that taking Evasive Imperative makes root breaking so much easier. There's so much dot spam from sorcs and sins lowering my CD that it's almost always usable whenever I need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakyoom Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) Evasive imperative is nice, i run that one in PvE but it doesn't work on damage taken, it works on attacks recieved. If you're not getting focused it's a waste and if you're getting focused then you need to cloak and reassess the situation imo. Still not a good enough reason to give up my 7 sec of mostly-guaranteed rotation or the free evasion every time i cloak. Edited April 11, 2015 by Vakyoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfadyr Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 I took "Hit and Run" over Upgraded debilitate, because in pvp I find myself wasting rolls to chase the target and 50% speed rlly helps me, almost all the time. Countermeasures has 1 min cd, which rlly suks, but I quess thats the only real root breaker we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Honestly, I really only miss the sever tendon root in Huttball/Queshball. Otherwise, I prefer my Counterstrike and Advanced Cloaking utilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zZeroAgent Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) I took "Hit and Run" over Upgraded debilitate, because in pvp I find myself wasting rolls to chase the target and 50% speed rlly helps me, almost all the time. Countermeasures has 1 min cd, which rlly suks, but I quess thats the only real root breaker we get. ditch the 15% movement speed and get debilitate upgrade 15% movement speed is so little that it's a waste, hit and run is much better so people can't kite you while attacking them and you always have Sneak for extra 50% speed/extra stealth on demand Edited April 11, 2015 by zZeroAgent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) ditch the 15% movement speed and get debilitate upgrade 15% movement speed is so little that it's a waste, hit and run is much better so people can't kite you while attacking them and you always have Sneak for extra 50% speed/extra stealth on demand I agree with this. Hit and run is usually better for the speed boost...and it is a faster speed boost. Edited April 11, 2015 by Saikochoro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakyoom Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) ditch the 15% movement speed and get debilitate upgrade 15% movement speed is so little that it's a waste, hit and run is much better so people can't kite you while attacking them and you always have Sneak for extra 50% speed/extra stealth on demand You don't take it for the 15% ms(although it's nice), you take it for the extra stealth levels so you can challenge nodes and get closer to enemies without being detected. Sprint bonus all the time vs a bonus if you're in range to Veiled Strike... I'm not a huge fan of situational bonuses like that. Although hit and run is nice for arena, where you're less worried about being caught out at a node. Edited April 11, 2015 by Vakyoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 You don't take it for the 15% ms(although it's nice), you take it for the extra stealth levels so you can challenge nodes and get closer to enemies without being detected. Sprint bonus all the time vs a bonus if you're in range to Veiled Strike... I'm not a huge fan of situational bonuses like that. Although hit and run is nice for arena, where you're less worried about being caught out at a node. In most cases, you will have sneak available for when you want to challenge a node or sneak up on someone. The extra stealth levels may be nice, but not really worth the utility IMO. Its easy enough to stay 10+ meters away and then roll to them if you don't have sneak...or just just sap them. I've never had a problem being detected without that utility. The 15% speed bonus is hardly noticeable. The speed buff off veiled strike is very good. Between that, sneak, and roll it is fairly easy to stay on most targets. The ones that you would have trouble keeping up with aren't going to be made any easier with the 15% bonus. Just my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfadyr Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 So Debilitate upgrade is crucial for pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakyoom Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) So Debilitate upgrade is crucial for pvp? absolutely, some healers are so good that you can take over 30 sec to kill them so having debil as an early interrupt then as a finisher after sorc bubble wears off is extremely helpful. I also recommend the 30% area damage reduction over the 5% dmg reduction, Force storm is everywhere! It depends on your playstyle tho. As for the stealth level vs hit and run, its not about getting caught by regs, it's about getting caught by other stealthies. If you want to beat them you'd better be sure you get the first hit in and not the other way around. As for not being able to catch the target with the 15%... Well if you can't catch them without using sever tendon or rolling, how are you supposed to get to the 4m to use veiled strike to get your speed buff? You're relying on the fact that you've recently hit that person with VS to have the buff, which doesn't matter if they get away from you before hand. I played with Hit and Run for a while and i'm happy to say that i'm glad i don't rely on it since if you're close enough for VS then it's a dice roll as to whether they sit in place for 3 seconds or they decide that THAT is the time to run, falling into your plan perfectly. I just like 'always' vs 'if i get my rotation'. If you're already chasing them, chances are you didn't get your rotation off(maybe you got stunned) or you were delaying VS to get the most out of the speed buff or something. Idk i just don't like relying on that personally. Edited April 12, 2015 by Vakyoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zZeroAgent Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 If you're not in stealth, starting off your rotation with veiled strike is the best way to do it aside from setting volatile first since it has longer range. Then they can't stop you from finishing it because you're so much faster than they are, it's so much harder to kite you There is no "if I get my rotation" because if you cannot get it with Hit and Run, you will 100% not get it with Infiltrator. And veiled strike is in such a low CD that as long as you're fighting, you may as well be running at 150% speed almost half the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakyoom Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Yes and i'd still prefer to have the upper hand vs stealhers while i'm taking/guarding a node rather than relying on a speed boost that isn't always there and doesn't help you catch up to someone at all unless you were already on top of them. Eventually they could just wait til your VS boost goes away and roll/speed away then, i do it everytime i see an op zipping around constantly... just wait for the speed to expire and get your distance. Edited April 13, 2015 by Vakyoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zZeroAgent Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I'd agree if we had the same increase in stealth levels as Sins, but we don't because of course Sins need to have better utilities than us at every level so they still see you before you see them Edited April 13, 2015 by zZeroAgent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dego-harmonium Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Here is what i take, i find its a good build for node stealing and running with the zerg Nano/Chem/hit and run - why waste a roll as a gap closer in some cases Sedatives/Pin Down Revitalizers/Evasive Imperative I don't take slip away, mainly for the fact that most warzones do not have continuous fighitng so debilitate is usually off CD when i need it, with so many AC's having talented stun resist/dmg reduction I find i use it less now anyways. Sedatives is prolly one of the most OP talents in the game so I always take it. Edited April 13, 2015 by dego-harmonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow-Canadian Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 A utility that grants a 2s root on a 10s cooldown is amazing for PVP. If you combine it with the root breaker those are the two BIS utility points for that tier imo. I saw some people mentioned taking the vanish reduction utility but that's a PVE utility only. The only reason to take it for PVE is because it's a DPS increase to use vanish on cooldown in your rotation. You will never do that in PVP because you need vanish for those "oh shat" moments. The sprint benefit it offers is negligible in PVP because you so seldomly vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 A utility that grants a 2s root on a 10s cooldown is amazing for PVP. If you combine it with the root breaker those are the two BIS utility points for that tier imo. I saw some people mentioned taking the vanish reduction utility but that's a PVE utility only. The only reason to take it for PVE is because it's a DPS increase to use vanish on cooldown in your rotation. You will never do that in PVP because you need vanish for those "oh shat" moments. The sprint benefit it offers is negligible in PVP because you so seldomly vanish. Defensive boons are better than offensive boons IMO in pvp. I don't have trouble staying on target without the sever tendon root. It is much more useful to be able to use cloaking screen more often. Root break is a must though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatchie Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 After they change the resolve so you can get rooted on full white bars, there is no reason to take the pin down utility IMO. I currently use this http://goo.gl/6ogDvu or this : http://goo.gl/mU7OVi depending on my mood. after the patch changes I will move from the root to the escape from roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryowolf Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 After they change the resolve so you can get rooted on full white bars, there is no reason to take the pin down utility IMO. I'm disappointed by this. One of my favorite uses was to root and escape some nasty dps that had full resolve and was about to eat my face. So now when you use sever tendon on a full resolve enemy it will apply two 50% slows? The normal 12 second one and a new 2 second one that falls off if damage is applied? I guess I'll be keeping Sedatives full time instead. Seems like this will have a big impact on HB matches, especially those last second saves at the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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