Passing on loot to ensure better rolls

[MasterAtin]

With the recent operations and game rewards/loot adjustments post 3.0, it's been harder to start building up reserves of Ultimate Commendations. Not necessarily a bad thing, in fact I'm glad this change has happened. It will force players to spend more effort and time to learning and clearing the new flashpoints and operations therefore increasing the overall skill and capability of players server wide. But I digress.

 

Partially related, but this has also resulted in loot drops to be more coveted. Especially the set bonus pieces. With ultimate comms being harder to come by per say, the set bonus piece tokens are in higher demand. My strategy in almost every operation is to pass on about 85-95% of ALL LOOT that drops in hopes that it would "increase" my chances of getting an item that I could use much more effectively than any other piece of loot that drops.

 

The set bonus tokens specifically. My thinking leads me to say to myself "if I only take a piece of bread from the table 6/7 dinner times a week, no one will have the right to cry when I grab the drumstick from the turkey." Or, I should be more deserving of the ONE ITEM I want.

 

Honestly though, ran Ravagers three times consecutively, passing on every item except the one I really wanted, and still didn't get them. I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles, but still. I think if players pass on most loot, there should be a guaranteed INCREASE in chance that you'll receive the item that you need on later. Not a guarantee that you'll get it. It's hard to explain. Not entitlement, but an obvious result that your non-greedy persona is taken note of. I don't know. I think you'll know what I mean, then again I just have a lot of QQ. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[FerkWork]

I think you'll know what I mean, then again I just have a lot of QQ. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Well at least your honest.

[JouerTue]

i suggest you to need on other set bonus items and go for a trade in the end..it works better if you need a specifical token

[Fidelicatessen]

There's a theme early on in the OP that suggests that set bonus tokens are only in demand because it's hard to get Ultimate Comms.

 

This made me chuckle.

[Kryand]

I don't think you are looking at it right. If you are just doing Ravagers, there are only 4 desirable pieces that drop. So half the team isn't going to get anything useful, assuming loot goes out fairly. If you care abut implants and offhand, this only changes slightly. What you're suggesting is basically that you should have priority because you need fewer pieces, when IMO everyone should have the same chance of walking away empty-handed regardless.

 

But, when you save your roll, the opposite ends up being the case. You have a higher chance of walking away empty-handed. Unfortunately there's no catch-all solution for pugs. Rolling on everything with the intent of trading will piss off some people just because you're rolling on pieces you don't need. And if the trade doesn't happen and you're stuck with a piece you can't use, everyone loses because that's 1 less piece from that raid that's going to get used.

 

But, all things considered, it's pretty much the only solution that's fair to you.

[rantboi]

i suggest you to need on other set bonus items and go for a trade in the end..it works better if you need a specifical token

 

and if no one wants to trade then you can try to auction the one you got to the group to make sure you end up on as many ignore lists as possible

[GrimWulf]

They are way too many loot whores out there to try this method. I love those people who come into a pug raid or even partial Guild run with 4 or more set pecises and need on almost everything.

Had a guy last night "Hanover":eek:,who was 5/7 and already had a head piece but won it. At the beginning of the raid the OPS leader said roll need only if you dont have that piece and only 1 set per person. When he was questioned about it. He DC'd:rolleyes:

[MasterAtin]

There's a theme early on in the OP that suggests that set bonus tokens are only in demand because it's hard to get Ultimate Comms.

 

This made me chuckle.

 

Maybe not "hard to get" but when level cap was 55, there were 5 operations iirc that, in 16 man would drop ultimate commendations. in addition to the groupfinder reqwards and weeklies for the operations. Aside from that, I cannot remember how many (if any) other weeklies like Oricon dropped ultimate commendations.

 

If you think ultimate comms are in as great abundance as they were months ago, I must disagree. There are fewer operations that can be farmed for ultimate commendations.

[MasterAtin]

Well at least your honest.

 

Yeah, I said that so responses wouldn't claim I'm complaining. Though I am certain that there is validity to my original point.

[AlrikFassbauer]

When he was questioned about it. He DC'd:rolleyes:

 

Shows his true intentions.

And this also sounds as if he had done it ttimes before - and will try it times after that.

[BobFredJohn]

I have always thought that passing should make a difference (maybe applying a 2% bonus to your next actual roll for every pass, but only in the mission to prevent people spamming fp's to get a 300% bonus then jumping into an op).

 

I pass in fp's etc because it sometimes gets noticed (not often). This results in people adding me to their friends. I then get a reputation for passing in place of greeding and get groups easier.

 

Of course it rarely gets noticed, an especially not in ops where there are 8 people rolling and, lets be honest nobody really bothers scrolling up to read all the rolls then gear chacking everyone to see if the "guy who needed the token piece" didnt already have a set bonus piece of that gear. This also results in nobody in ops really noticing that I pass on everything.

 

As such it would be nice if for once in a while my 17 passes throughout an op, then my final roll on the piece I want I had a chance at rolling between 1 and 134 instead of just the same 1 and 100 as everybody else, seeing as I have pretty much given them the credits they get from selling the stuff they greeded.

[JediQuaker]

I doubt that passing on loot has any affect on the chance of anything else.

 

From a programming point of view, it would be much easier to simply have a given "chance" of something happening rather than also keeping tack of who passed on what loot, and when, and etc.

Edited April 26, 2015 by JediQuaker

[DawnAskham]

Run with a guild using set loot rules if you want anything other than RNG to determine loot distribution, both the RNG of winning rolls as well as the RNG on getting a greedy @sshat in your group that needs on everything.

 

And sorry, but passing shouldn't give anyone a bonus on set pieces as NO one needs or, assuming they have half a brain, even wants 99% of the non set piece stuff that drops in SM (HM is a bit different as the non-set stuff at least does have optimized mods and enhancements compared to the trash mods in SM non set gear).

Edited April 26, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Ubikface]

The pug groups you run with don't use master looter and the old "only one token and only if you can use it" rule? I admit, I'm always very surprised when I see groups that use round robin need/greed/pass in the new ops.

[FerkWork]

The pug groups you run with don't use master looter and the old "only one token and only if you can use it" rule? I admit, I'm always very surprised when I see groups that use round robin need/greed/pass in the new ops.

 

Most I run with do round robin 1 set piece per person. Master loot just means the Leader is going to take the chest piece and Mainhand and if 16man the resource for himself. If I see a pug with master loot I usually run far away. People will follow the rules with round robin because by doing so if thy don't win a roll it increases their chances of winning. No rules would mean a less favorable outcome so most abide by them.

Edited April 26, 2015 by FerkWork

[DawnAskham]

Most I run with do round robin 1 set piece per person. Master loot just means the Leader is going to take the chest piece and Mainhand and if 16man the resource for himself. If I see a pug with master loot I usually run far away. People will follow the rules with round robin because by doing so if thy don't win a roll it increases their chances of winning. No rules would mean a less favorable outcome so most abide by them.

 

Sadly for pugs all the loot setting options include the ability for people to be greedy a-holes and take items outside the agreed upon rules.

 

If you use Master Loot, the ML can loot anything they want for themselves, though as you stated, that type of ML will typically wait until the last boss to take items they should not have received.

 

If you use Need / Greed with any sort of player set conditions (one set piece), any player can still roll need for a chance to take any item outside the agreed upon loot rules.

 

While the ML situation can result in everything off the last boss being taken, it is very easy to notice, while I've seen many instances of little to no one calling out the greedy a-holes need rolling beyond agreed upon loot rules.

 

The only solution for pugs which would prevent others from taking loot would be a personal loot system where the game itself decides if a player gets an item or not, independent of each other.

 

Otherwise, trust is always a factor in loot as one untrustworthy player can and will take items which they should not otherwise have received.

Edited April 27, 2015 by DawnAskham

[mydogclimbstree]

They are way too many loot whores out there to try this method. I love those people who come into a pug raid or even partial Guild run with 4 or more set pecises and need on almost everything.

Had a guy last night "Hanover":eek:,who was 5/7 and already had a head piece but won it. At the beginning of the raid the OPS leader said roll need only if you dont have that piece and only 1 set per person. When he was questioned about it. He DC'd:rolleyes:

 

While I agree that if the loot rules have been stated they should be followed, I'll add that I would have left as soon as someone stated those rules.

 

Why shouldn't someone be allowed to roll on anything, even just to upgrade mods/enhancements, because they already have their six-piece? With the prevalence of crit/surge mods and enhancements, it takes a heck of a lot more than 7 tokens to min/max a gear set for raiding.

Edited April 27, 2015 by mydogclimbstree

[Rithoma]

While I agree that if the loot rules have been stated they should be followed, I'll add that I would have left as soon as someone stated those rules.

 

Why shouldn't someone be allowed to roll on anything, even just to upgrade mods/enhancements, because they already have their six-piece? With the prevalence of crit/surge mods and enhancements, it takes a heck of a lot more than 7 tokens to min/max a gear set for raiding.

 

I agree. On my server it is common by now that everyone can roll on any token, but you can't win more than 1 token per run. I think this is the fairest way to distribute loot, because the fully geared player invests just as much time and effort into the operation as the fresh max level with no token gear at all. The fully geared probably has to carry some more weight even. So every participant in an operation deserves to get loot, no matter how well geared his current toon already is.

 

But I gotta blow off some steam too and do some QQing. My luck on competetive rolls is just a b***. Out of 6 Ravagers runs per week, I can be happy if I win 2 rolls on set items. The rest of the times I might just get the left-over implant after the last boss, but since they not legacy-bound, I can just vendor them for a minimal amount. It becomes really discouraging. But when RNGsus has to look for a winner when a "random" group member gets an AoE circle, I will definitely win that roll.

 

@OP

I like the idea that not needing on some items or maybe just not winning other items would increase your chances for the particular item you are looking for. But then, the devs decided to put that in the hands of the community and I think that's a good approach. Besides the occasional ninja or the newbie who doesn't understand loot rules, most players are still rather mature when it comes to distributing loot in my personal experience.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Rithoma

[ped_i]

Maybe not "hard to get" but when level cap was 55, there were 5 operations iirc that, in 16 man would drop ultimate commendations. in addition to the groupfinder reqwards and weeklies for the operations. Aside from that, I cannot remember how many (if any) other weeklies like Oricon dropped ultimate commendations.

 

If you think ultimate comms are in as great abundance as they were months ago, I must disagree. There are fewer operations that can be farmed for ultimate commendations.

 

Set Bonuses are in higher demand because they are better. It has nothing to do with how hard it is to get ultimate commendations.

[FerkWork]

Set Bonuses are in higher demand because they are better. It has nothing to do with how hard it is to get ultimate commendations.

 

Shhh don't tell them that... The less they know the less they roll and more for me, Capiche?

Edited April 28, 2015 by FerkWork

[MasterAtin]

Update:

 

Just finished ToS 8m SM. Again, I passed on I'd say 80% of the loot. One piece of which I could have used. A relic. I knew more would drop later on. At Underlurker, I took no chances. I needed on stuff I could actually use. ie set bonus pieces that I didn't have and any 192 unassembled relics. New guy shows up at underlurker. Probably the least well geared member.

 

Manages to get TWO RELICS and a set bonus piece. Didn't violate any rules. But seriously, what a greed SoB. Made a shiny penny that guy did tonight. Meanwhile I got sqat.

 

>.> not surprised though.

 

I'm wondering if the game analyzes the gear quality of certain players and gives them better roles. If so, communism has a left a bigger impression that I thought.

 

Darn Commies.

[Declan_Vee]

If you really want to improve your chances at getting loot when pugging ops the best thing you can do is to stack the deck with friends/guildies who are using their rolls for your benefit and have them trade those tokens with you. Edited May 2, 2015 by Declan_Vee

[cirruz]

An increased roll chance, would it really matter? If you are 4 people who only need the set bonus pieces and all of you pass until said pieces drop, an increased chance wouldn't mean anything between you four.

I personally think that if you do need the implants and relics you should roll for them irrespective of whether or not you want the set bonus more, because you actually do NEED the other pieces, since the benefit of 192 tokens will be better than commendation 198 ones in terms of secondary stats.

In some groups I run with on the red eclipse server, the ones who didn't get anything automatically get the offhand or some other lesser piece, that you can at least use the mods and enhancements(the good ones) from, so best case scenarios there might only be 1 person or so that goes away empyhanded.

Edited May 2, 2015 by cirruz

[FerkWork]

Update:

 

Just finished ToS 8m SM. Again, I passed on I'd say 80% of the loot. One piece of which I could have used. A relic. I knew more would drop later on. At Underlurker, I took no chances. I needed on stuff I could actually use. ie set bonus pieces that I didn't have and any 192 unassembled relics. New guy shows up at underlurker. Probably the least well geared member.

 

Manages to get TWO RELICS and a set bonus piece. Didn't violate any rules. But seriously, what a greed SoB. Made a shiny penny that guy did tonight. Meanwhile I got sqat.

 

>.> not surprised though.

 

I'm wondering if the game analyzes the gear quality of certain players and gives them better roles. If so, communism has a left a bigger impression that I thought.

 

Darn Commies.

 

Do you say the same thing at Casinos?

 

Simple solution: Need on every token, ah screw it when puggig Need on everything if you haven't won anything yet.