Taking FORCE STORM off my bar.

[AdrianDmitruk]

To me this just says your too lazy to use 30 secs to rearange a few abilities tbh.

 

LOL. Nice ad hominem.

 

You further overestimate the impatience of others.

 

A couple nights ago, I queued on my main PVE toon (a jugg) for HM GF FP, as DPS. I don't enjoy tanking (and I won't tank ops at all), but after sitting in queue for a while it became clear I would have to in order to force the damn queue to pop. So I requeued in dual role and about 10 minutes later I popped as a tank.

 

I inform the group that I will have to respec, change my gear, and redo my bars before I take the shuttle to the FP destination. I do so but of course by the time I load in (after having informed the group I was doing this), two of them left including the healer. Which meant going BACK to DPS to do my solo stuff while I waited for ANOTHER queue pop, then going BACK to tank...oh and inevitably I forget to put the old smash back on my bars because vengeful slam replaces it for that toon's DPS spec--which tends to make the first pull a bit messier than it should be and I am duly reminded.

 

That whole situation could have been prevented with dual spec. The impatient nubs would have been none the wiser and I would have gotten my **** done that much sooner.

 

Dual spec isn't about laziness. It's about making it more enjoyable to play support roles (tanking or healing) in groups by taking the tedium out of switching into said roles when need be.

 

I also have a corruption healer. It's my main toon for PVP, but I won't touch it with solo PVE. Why? Corruption is **** for solo content. It's slow as ****, and the FS nerf removed what little corruption had going for it in terms of killing OW mobs without it causing the player to fall asleep. Even before the FS nerf the OP is QQing about, I had other characters I enjoy doing OW PVE on far more. The only time I use my corruption sorc for PVE at all is when a healer leaves an operation I'm DPSing in, and I offer to switch to prevent the op from disbanding.

 

Yes, I can see why the OP brings up dual spec as a potential solution. If my sorc could seamlessly hotswap spec from DPS to healer when out of combat, it might not feel so useless and superceded by my juggernaut for PVE content and I'd actually bother to do some PVE on it. MMOs have traditionally had the problem of the roles most in demand for group content absolutely sucking in solo content. which is a major reason why dual spec even exists in other games. While dual spec won't be enough to address support role shortages by itself, it just might result in a few more tanks/healers in queue for group content.

Edited May 28, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[AdrianDmitruk]

Although yes it would be a QoL to be able to change gear/spec in a click of 1-2 buttons, and now it is easier to implement given that the outfit code can form the basis, but,

 

for sages:

- Time to respec: 20s (no need to even bother changing gear for dailies), 30-40s with gear changing (this is still less than the time it typically takes to get out of a loading screen)

- Time to do a daily, let's say BH is under 10mins, ie. 600s

- So basically the time to respect is about 3% of the time to do a BH daily... if there are more than one dailies the this time is less than 1% of the time spent.

- Clicking an auto-button is let's say 5s. Improvement would be in the magnitude of less than 1%.

 

Don't get me wrong I would welcome such QoL, but mostly for the tank/dps classes... Sages sorcs really have no issue with that, unless the player has no clue about the other trees in which I can't see how a one-button respec is going to make a difference.

 

Discussing whether the balance of an ability should be based on time to do dailies and time to respect is like a discussion whether to walk or drive to the corner shop next to your house, and then complaining that the car should be a Veyron cause a Golf is just not good enough.

 

You overestimate the patience of waiting pugs, see one post above

 

Also. 1) I did mention this change would benefit everyone, not just sages (and to an extent you are right--sages don't need to worry as much about gear swapping), and that is why it should be implemented with that much more urgency, and 2) clicking an autobutton would be 1.5s, not 5s, just saying (unless Bioware decided on adding an artificial cast time in addition to out-of-combat requirement).

 

Also, for players who are intensively specialized into 1 spec and seldom switch, it can take far longer than 20s to switch even if they know the rotation of the new spec. For a player who seldom switches specs (like me on my healer), just because I have an idea of what I'm doing doesn't mean the muscle memory is there to do it in 20.

Edited May 28, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[MusicRider]

You overestimate the patience of waiting pugs, see one post above

 

Also. 1) I did mention this change would benefit everyone, not just sages (and to an extent you are right--sages don't need to worry as much about gear swapping), and that is why it should be implemented with that much more urgency, and 2) clicking an autobutton would be 1.5s, not 5s, just saying (unless Bioware decided on adding an artificial cast time in addition to out-of-combat requirement).

 

Also, for players who are intensively specialized into 1 spec and seldom switch, it can take far longer than 20s to switch even if they know the rotation of the new spec. For a player who seldom switches specs (like me on my healer), just because I have an idea of what I'm doing doesn't mean the muscle memory is there to do it in 20.

 

As I said I do agree that allowing changing spec/gear and even interface that is different depending on role would be a nice QoL, and easier to implement now with the outfit designer code existing. And I agree even, if personally on my sage/sorc is not really an issue, possibly a habit I picked up from the days of ranked warzones and during the period that respecting was allowed. Back then it was always the case that dual roles would respec during the fights depending on the state of the game and it was also taking longer than now with the tree system if you are aware of.

 

Specifically regarding sages and switching between seer and TK is really dead easy.

 

Bottom line, although I have no problem at all with respeccing on my sage, I do agree that it would be a nice QoL in general. But, I find absurd having a discussion about balancing abilities with the criteria of time to respec and time to do dailies or "soft" content in general.

 

PS: Tbh I never had anyone leaving while I asked to respec, maybe cause it takes me seconds and because I do it within the environment (after travel) and not before. Buy the field respec and try that.

Edited May 28, 2015 by MusicRider

[AdrianDmitruk]

As I said I do agree that allowing changing spec/gear and even interface that is different depending on role would be a nice QoL, and easier to implement now with the outfit designer code existing. And I agree even, if personally on my sage/sorc is not really an issue, possibly a habit I picked up from the days of ranked warzones and during the period that respecting was allowed. Back then it was always the case that dual roles would respec during the fights depending on the state of the game and it was also taking longer than now with the tree system if you are aware of.

 

Specifically regarding sages and switching between seer and TK is really dead easy.

 

Bottom line, although I have no problem at all with respeccing on my sage, I do agree that it would be a nice QoL in general. But, I find absurd having a discussion about balancing abilities with the criteria of time to respec and time to do dailies or "soft" content in general.

 

PS: Tbh I never had anyone leaving while I asked to respec, maybe cause it takes me seconds and because I do it within the environment (after travel) and not before. Buy the field respec and try that.

 

Eh, I wasn't trying to say "let's balance classes around respeccing on a whim," I was trying to say "Stop trolling the OP over complaining that he was collateral damage over the TK-intended FS nerf, when his needs would be addressed by dual spec, and advocate for dual spec instead." There's a difference.

 

FS for corruption didn't need to take it up the shorts like that--it was far more imbalanced for the DPS spec--and corruption took heavy collateral damage from the nerf to the point it has hardly any teeth for OW PVE at all.

[MusicRider]

Eh, I wasn't trying to say "let's balance classes around respeccing on a whim," I was trying to say "Stop trolling the OP over complaining that he was collateral damage over the TK-intended FS nerf, when his needs would be addressed by dual spec, and advocate for dual spec instead." There's a difference.

Well, it most certainly seems so. And no it is not trolling saying that it is pretty dumb to be discussing the dps of an ability whether it suits the healing spec. And although I agreed about changing profile with a press of a button, for the Nth time sages have it really easy on this and whoever is lazy to spend 20s respeccing then deserves to spend three times the time to do a daily

 

FS for corruption didn't need to take it up the shorts like that--it was far more imbalanced for the DPS spec--and corruption took heavy collateral damage from the nerf to the point it has hardly any teeth for OW PVE at all.

 

For corruption FS with the t1 utility which should be taken is pretty much where it used to be pre-3.0. So since there was no complain back then, it seems pointless to be now. It's only that during 3.0-till FS nerf sorcs got spoilt.

 

Whether it should be doing the damage of pre-3.0 or not is another question, but that is only related to the dps specs, how it performs for seers is totally irrelevant.

[jauvtus]

You seriously expect ppl to spend 200k on field respec and spend 30s with respeccing every time he wants to do some dailies?! You are heartless. Let's just buff FQ/FS back to pre-nerf status, maybe a little more, just so seer/corruption feels better. Since balancing classes is all about healers' dailies.

[coastiebock]

Good. All you scrubs using only force storm and force quakes in flashpoints and warzones, and thinking you're elite without having to worry about resource management, will now have to actually learn to play the class.

 

Sorcs and sages are still a great class. And their aoe capacity is still as good as or superior to every other class. It's just no longer a pathetic crutch. I love this change.

 

The tears about it are great, because all of you force storm fanatics that did NOTHING else the entire wz or fp were so infuriating to watch and so horrible at every other aspect of the game.

 

I love his quote. Im sorc Madness and we can still do AOE, but yes we do have more than 2 abilities.

[MisterPepssi]

If you don't play the class, your opinion doesn't matter. If you think force storm or force quake is the top AOE in the game you don't play many classes.. I have one of every class, the AOE's for all of the other classes are quite HARSH. Especially the sniper's AOE

 

And clearly people can not READ.. I have no problem with the FS/FQ skill being limited to only activating if more than one target is in the target zone. This will eliminate the idiots who use the skill as a single target OP. Problem completely and utterly solved.

 

I hope your favorite class is next on the "nerf" list. I seriously think that the developers must have their own characters and PVP WZ's are all they play. They improve their favorite classes to play based on what helps them the most in PVP and nerfs the ones they don't play and nerfs the skills of those that they have lost under from other classes.

A Sage or Sorc in a HEALING build does NOT have any other useful way to deal with mobs. Every class in every build needs and deserves a good AOE skill. They should ALL be made to only function if two or more targets are in a target zone. That way everyone is fair, everyone is balanced, and everyone can effectively and efficiently deal with mobs. If you say a class or build doesn't deserve or need an effective AOE skill, you're a gaming idiot.

 

You sound quite ignorant. The ability was ticking for 3k in PvP and had no cooldown AND a snare ontop, tell me how that was supposed to stay put, while also making PvP players happy? I play my sorc in both PvP and PvE (Mainly PvP) and I do just fine L2P.

[wadecounty]

I have a Sage so don't tell me I don't understand the class. Quake was OP as hell, even as a healer. As a healer, in fights with adds I'd specifically save my recklessness for Quake to obliterate the adds, it was hilarious, I could do more damage than our DPS unless they were also Sages.

 

What the previous poster said about Quake being as strong now with the T1 talent taken as it was pre 3.0 is correct, so unless you hated the class from 1.0-3.0 and only enjoyed it from 3.0-3.2, there shouldn't be any issue.

 

As for the dailies/respec thing, I have never had a group quit on me while waiting for me to respec. And if they did, their spots would be filled instantly anyways because I was the one playing the role nobody else wanted to (heals/tank). So that sounds a bit far fetched to me. Source, someone who queues for probably 10+ hm flashpoints a week.

[JamieKirby]

The ability is still pretty good, the only reason you guys are ************ like little babies is because you can't just spam it endlessly.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I have a Sage so don't tell me I don't understand the class. Quake was OP as hell, even as a healer. As a healer, in fights with adds I'd specifically save my recklessness for Quake to obliterate the adds, it was hilarious, I could do more damage than our DPS unless they were also Sages.

 

What the previous poster said about Quake being as strong now with the T1 talent taken as it was pre 3.0 is correct, so unless you hated the class from 1.0-3.0 and only enjoyed it from 3.0-3.2, there shouldn't be any issue.

 

As for the dailies/respec thing, I have never had a group quit on me while waiting for me to respec. And if they did, their spots would be filled instantly anyways because I was the one playing the role nobody else wanted to (heals/tank). So that sounds a bit far fetched to me. Source, someone who queues for probably 10+ hm flashpoints a week.

 

I was the one that brought up having the group quit on me because I had to spend the time to respec to tank. Yes, it actually happened--but as I mentioned later on my muscle memory for spec swapping is horrible and it takes me at least twice as long as people who are used to it and do it more often. Granted that's the only time I've seen it happen while someone was respeccing, but I have.

 

I actually think one of the DPS decided to leeroy jenkins it when I was still respeccing before taking the GF shuttle to the flashpoint, which would help to explain it, but as I wasn't in the instance yet, I'm not completely sure what happened other than someone got impatient somehow and next thing I know a healer and a dps quit. Begeren Colony has an exceptionally large population of bads.

[Master-Nala]

The ability is still pretty good, the only reason you guys are ************ like little babies is because you can't just spam it endlessly.

 

Naw, you can still spam it just as much as you could before.

[Aumvaar]

The ability is still pretty good, the only reason you guys are ************ like little babies is because you can't just spam it endlessly.

 

I can't spam it endlessly because it's a channeled ability. But I'm pretty good at recasting on the split-second the channeling ends, so I'm effectively spamming it.

 

As a still-leveling Sorcerer, I use Force Storm constantly, & love it. Maybe I'll hate it by level 60, but at level 44 it's a killer.

[Malkosha]

I've just started to play a Sorc and I can't imagine how powerful this ability was before they nerfed it, because right now It's a killer. I mow down anything that gets in my way and the difference between this and a marauder, when it comes to leveling and AOE, is night and day. If it did twice the damage it did now, no wonder it was nerfed.

 

I guess at higher levels it may be lacking but while leveling I feel like I' in God-Mode.