Operatives/Scoundrels are the bane of my existence

[TheJollyRogers]

There's already a lot of great information in this thread. The bane of my existence is really just getting snared and rooted. It really forces me to waste cooldowns to keep my uptime on the target.

 

And thank you for making a "I need to learn more about beating this class" instead of a "please nerf this class" thread. I'm so glad people actually came into this thread and posted a lot of very helpful stuff.

[Haystak]

The rebar sticking out of the rubble in Alderaan Civil War is the bane to my exhistance. It has caught me more than enough times.

 

Friggen stupid innanimate object one day we shall meet and I shall be the victor, but today is not that day.

[Saikochoro]

The rebar sticking out of the rubble in Alderaan Civil War is the bane to my exhistance. It has caught me more than enough times.

 

Friggen stupid innanimate object one day we shall meet and I shall be the victor, but today is not that day.

 

LOL so true...who cares about sorcs and sins when we have to deal with that dang rebar (only being partial sarcastic...I HATE THAT REBAR!).

[DomiSotto]

Aww, Scoundrels/Operatives can be nice. Some of them would Smuggle the entire party and won’t leave you standing out like a sore thumb for the other team to focus on. Some would even match their pace to yours. I particularly appreciate it as Sage/Sorc heals, because running the long open stretches of the ground when you need to find a convenient nook from which to heal is a precarious undertaking.

 

As for inanimate objects, that netting in Voidstar is deceptive in its length.

Edited April 8, 2015 by DomiSotto

[MisterPepssi]

I heard that it is theoretically potentially maybe possible to root them. I am inclined to believe it's an urban legend, because normally they cc you first, and once they do, you are toast. Balmorra's not yet recovered enough from the civil war to supply the arsenal needed to shut down a single operatives/scoundrel.

 

That's why I enjoy whenever I can manage a leap-push-leap sequence on any one of that class I can see. It gives a short, sweet gimps of almost killing one.... there is a thread in the class forum, which gives a scoundrel's.operative's perspectives on the other classes. Very illuminating.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=803575

 

You realise we can purge roots twice.. right? Nvm, makes it 3 times.

Edited April 8, 2015 by MisterPepssi

[SgtJeremy]

I have a few reasons as to why you may be having trouble.

 

1. It may be like you said....you probably aren't terrible, but you might lack the experience in knowing how to deal with ops. That's okay...just comes down to practice. Also, if you don't already have an operative I would suggest rolling one as it will help you to understand their strengths and weaknesses. The reason I originally made an op in the beginning of the game is because I was pissed they were destroying my sin. Helped me to learn the class.

 

2. You may be playing a gimped class. Mara's and mercs generally will just not do well against an op unless they are exceptionally skilled.

 

3. You may be playing a class whose design doesn't work well against ops. MM snipers are a great class, but their design does not suit fighting operatives as their burst is predictable and they are heavy white damage classes. Ops defenses are well suited against them. Mercs are the same...predictable burst and only a 4m root. Roots are key to killing operatives.

 

4. You may be trying to just 1v1 them. Like most stealth classes, operatives are very potent in a 1v1 situation, but their potency quickly diminishes in a team setting...that is why they aren't one of the top classes in ranked. They are good middle ground for sure, but not the top.

 

Overall, it comes down to experience. Like someone else stated, many of the people still playing dps operatives are LONG TIME veterans and really know their stuff. Also, their strength comes in 1v1 encounters...which stealth helps them to find. That's why they are good node guards. My best advice is to make an operative and play it a lot (if you haven't already) and you will have a much easier time against them from that experience.

 

Also...to the people that say operatives suck....they don't know what they are talking about. Operatives do not suck by any means, but neither are they overpowered. I believe they are a very balanced class...something that many seem to agree with. They need neither buffs nor nerfs.

 

You certainly know your stuff, I am a sniper. I do make an effort to avoid Operatives at all costs, but they seek me out like vultures on a dead carcass. They are smart to attack me because I am unable to beat them 1v1. So when I get focused I usually just follow a team mate around and hope to survive the warzone

[DomiSotto]

You realise we can purge roots twice.. right? Nvm, makes it 3 times.

 

Which particular class do you mean? If you mean the guardian, I am actually all ears, because it's one thing I need to research still.

[Haystak]

I heard that it is theoretically potentially maybe possible to root them. I am inclined to believe it's an urban legend, because normally they cc you first, and once they do, you are toast. Balmorra's not yet recovered enough from the civil war to supply the arsenal needed to shut down a single operatives/scoundrel.

 

That's why I enjoy whenever I can manage a leap-push-leap sequence on any one of that class I can see. It gives a short, sweet gimps of almost killing one.... there is a thread in the class forum, which gives a scoundrel's.operative's perspectives on the other classes. Very illuminating.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=803575

 

Some of the posts in that thread imo are slightly innacurate. Some of the tips and class feedback apply to reg warzones, which can be littered with sub-par players. A lot of the classes can put up a decent fight if piloted by smart players. No one class is an "easy kill".

 

The best thing you can do to prevent a sco/op from destroying your face is to jack up their opening rotation.

 

If an op opens on you do whatever you can to prevent that first bloodboiler from going off at full potential.

 

This can be done by knocking back before the 3rd GCD, popping a mitigating Defensive cooldown, or stunning on the opener or right after the opener.

 

Being quick to react really changes the outcome of most fights. As a scoundrel is still an alpha burst class, the burst has just been tied to a very rigid opening rotation. Interupt that opening rotation, and you take away a lot of the advantages an op has.

 

A persistant op must be dealt with, if one opens on you change your focus to the op, unless you have a healer to kill, their is no reason to target something else, they have excellent DPS if left alone, and if attacked have little to no mitigation(really med armor maybe takes off 800-1.2k damage comapred to sages). The best response to most ops is to hit them hard, and force them to run away, or play defensively which will really limit thier dps, as they cant both play defensively and keep their outstanding damage, the class doesnt work like that.

[Haystak]

Which particular class do you mean? If you mean the guardian, I am actually all ears, because it's one thing I need to research still.

 

I believe hes talking about tech roots.

 

Cleanse, Dodge, and the talented root break on surrender.

[jordhanus]

I must say, thanks to this thread I've dusted off my formerly Med, now Concealement Operative (L56 now), and I'm having a blast!

[Saikochoro]

You certainly know your stuff, I am a sniper. I do make an effort to avoid Operatives at all costs, but they seek me out like vultures on a dead carcass. They are smart to attack me because I am unable to beat them 1v1. So when I get focused I usually just follow a team mate around and hope to survive the warzone

 

Yeah snipers have it pretty hard against ops. Following around teammates is a good thing to do. They will be less inclined to repeatedly gank you.

[Saikochoro]

I believe hes talking about tech roots.

 

Cleanse, Dodge, and the talented root break on surrender.

 

Cleanse will work on the tech roots yes...too bad there are so many sins and sorcs around with force roots though. I don't usually encourage using evasion as a root purge unless its absolutely necessary though...or unless I was going to use it anyway for something else.

[EAbovee]

There's already a lot of great information in this thread. The bane of my existence is really just getting snared and rooted. It really forces me to waste cooldowns to keep my uptime on the target.

 

And thank you for making a "I need to learn more about beating this class" instead of a "please nerf this class" thread. I'm so glad people actually came into this thread and posted a lot of very helpful stuff.

 

Update:

 

So, because of the info in this thread, I have changed around a few of my utilities for regs to combat the operatives' abilities. Most notably, in the third tier, saber throw acts as a three second root and enure gives me 50% speed increase with immunity to controlling effects. I have to say, this has helped me out tremendously! I can consistently keep pressure on ops who try to 1v1 me (usually while I am guarding a node) when I roughly follow the second scenario described by Saiko. Unfortunately, none of these ops are the exceptional ones I recognize on Shadowlands (I haven't seen them on lately tbh). Now, some ops are still able to get away from me but I think simply surviving these encounters (and occasionally getting that sweet, sweet killing blow with dispatch) is what counts. Now to find Telessi...

 

Edit: I have to say though, the mez --> pylon cap combo in hypergates is REALLY annoying. Forces me to use a CC breaker.

Edited April 8, 2015 by EAbovee

[Saikochoro]

Update:

 

So, because of the info in this thread, I have changed around a few of my utilities for regs to combat the operatives' abilities. Most notably, in the third tier, saber throw acts as a three second root and enure gives me 50% speed increase with immunity to controlling effects. I have to say, this has helped me out tremendously! I can consistently keep pressure on ops who try to 1v1 me (usually while I am guarding a node) when I roughly follow the second scenario described by Saiko. Unfortunately, none of these ops are the exceptional ones I recognize on Shadowlands (I haven't seen them on lately tbh). Now, some ops are still able to get away from me but I think simply surviving these encounters (and occasionally getting that sweet, sweet killing blow with dispatch) is what counts. Now to find Telessi...

 

Edit: I have to say though, the mez --> pylon cap combo in hypergates is REALLY annoying. Forces me to use a CC breaker.

 

I'm glad this info was able to help you out. Thanks for letting us know how it is working out for you so far.

[DomiSotto]

Yay, you!

 

About this recommendation to protect your back, I have a long-standing problem with getting the back to the wall results in an automatic and horrible zoom change. Whenever there is a wall or a ceiling nearby, the view changes for me to a close zoom, at some blessedly awkward angle (like helpfully showing a close-up of the back of my character's head), getting it back to where you can actually see the opposition you are fighting costs precious time. Getting inside the bunker on Novare coast, for example, is extremely disorienting, and targeting anyone inside it is basically impossible.

 

Is there some setting at all that allows the zoom to stay the way it is, despite the walls/ceilings?

[QuiveringPotato]

Yay, you!

 

About this recommendation to protect your back, I have a long-standing problem with getting the back to the wall results in an automatic and horrible zoom change. Whenever there is a wall or a ceiling nearby, the view changes for me to a close zoom, at some blessedly awkward angle (like helpfully showing a close-up of the back of my character's head), getting it back to where you can actually see the opposition you are fighting costs precious time. Getting inside the bunker on Novare coast, for example, is extremely disorienting, and targeting anyone inside it is basically impossible.

 

Is there some setting at all that allows the zoom to stay the way it is, despite the walls/ceilings?

 

With the zoom settings, I am not sure, but, using the "back to the wall" tactic is actually an awful idea.

 

An operative/assassin can still use backstabbing abilities on you since they only need to be attacking from your back 180 degree cone to hit you with them, so having your back to the wall does not help. You can backstab/spike/maul while standing directly beside your target. In addition, guess what happens when an op opens on you and you're a sniper, for instance, and you try to knock them back while you're all stuck in a corner? They're still right on top of you cause your knockback sent them nowhere.

 

Open ground is the best place to combat an op, somewhere where he can't LoS you, and you're free to root/stun him and kite him around and whatnot.

Edited April 9, 2015 by QuiveringPotato

[Haystak]

With the zoom settings, I am not sure, but, using the "back to the wall" tactic is actually an awful idea.

 

An operative/assassin can still use backstabbing abilities on you since they only need to be attacking from your back 180 degree cone to hit you with them, so having your back to the wall does not help. You can backstab/spike/maul while standing directly beside your target. In addition, guess what happens when an op opens on you and you're a sniper, for instance, and you try to knock them back while you're all stuck in a corner? They're still right on top of you cause your knockback sent them nowhere.

 

Open ground is the best place to combat an op, somewhere where he can't LoS you, and you're free to root/stun him and kite him around and whatnot.

 

 

Agree with your comment as a whole, but back side area is now reduced to 90 degrees on players(I still think its 180 for NPCs). Their are instances where it is rather hard to get to someones backside, but yeah, you lose more than you gain in that situation.

[QuiveringPotato]

Agree with your comment as a whole, but back side area is now reduced to 90 degrees on players(I still think its 180 for NPCs). Their are instances where it is rather hard to get to someones backside, but yeah, you lose more than you gain in that situation.

 

Oh yeah, that's true. You can still usually get the backstab off just by jumping on top of the guy, though.

[generalstonestar]

Yay! I am considered an expert!

[generalstonestar]

My tips for killing me.

 

1. Electro net. Use this on an operative on cool down! Netted operative=dead operative. Why? Because we cant use our roles, we move slow, we can be kited and we cant even get close enough to do damage.

 

2. Do what everyone else does which is stun operatives in white bar, and make sure you use LOADS of roots, sometimes I feel like a human punching bag when I first enter a warzone just because of the pure ammount of CC and knock backs, pushes, pulles, aoe stuns, these all really tick off operatives, as it is hard to do damage when you are getting CC in white bar

 

3. Use root immunities, these make it hard for operatives to do our job, which requires we be toe to toe and often have them rooten with there backs to us. Root immunites like hold the line, make it really hard for us to do anything.

 

Well, these are my tips, if I think of anymore, I will post them.

[foxmob]

My tips for killing me.

 

1. Electro net. Use this on an operative on cool down! Netted operative=dead operative. Why? Because we cant use our roles, we move slow, we can be kited and we cant even get close enough to do damage. .

 

no no no. save net for when he's ~40%. he may or may not break it, at which point you want to stun him to finish him off. absolutely do not use net when he's over 50% hp. it's a complete waste unless you have 3 ppl hitting him. also, since net is involved, you're obviously on a merc, so while he's netted/stunned in the time to channel and unload the white attacks. he won't be rolling/evading out of them.

 

I don't object to net, but you cannot simply net on cd. that's a horrible strat.

[DomiSotto]

Okay, so cornering yourself is not worth it.

 

Do the Scoundrel/Operatives get a 15% movement speed increase utility? I know they flow like silk around you and it is sometimes hard to keep up with them during the Smuggle, so I was wondering if it is a build-in in the AC, or simply an exciting demo of the superior movement skill that is required to play the class?

[DeVanagloris]

I must say, thanks to this thread I've dusted off my formerly Med, now Concealement Operative (L56 now), and I'm having a blast!

 

Same with me! i never played an op, but started reading this thread and decided to roll one. After watching some vids and guides i went concealment, as healing is not for me. I started playing warzones at level 11 and it was dissapointing, but i persisted and i am currently level 27 and having a blast! Its absolute fun, i win more or less all 1v1, and i often solo node cap. Whenever a warzone starts ill always go to their node or pylon and try capping it, or if its pylon, wait till the last 50 secs or so. Usually i succeed and we win, but however ppl dont appreciate that and they only look the big numbers at the end. One of the best parts is when you can hold a node against 3 and even 4 ppl, i couldnt believe it was possible but with the conceal op it is

Edited April 10, 2015 by DeVanagloris

[Haystak]

Okay, so cornering yourself is not worth it.

 

Do the Scoundrel/Operatives get a 15% movement speed increase utility? I know they flow like silk around you and it is sometimes hard to keep up with them during the Smuggle, so I was wondering if it is a build-in in the AC, or simply an exciting demo of the superior movement skill that is required to play the class?

 

three talents increase speed fo scoundrels ops

 

1 is a talented ability that give a passive 15% speed boost that is always up. And yes it can be annoying when using smuggle. But smuggle is hella bugged anyway. people coming out of stealth for no reason, other than they hit a bump in the map and changed elevation. It does not stack with the speed boost you get from being out of combat, so your not really gaining anything while being out of stealth and out of combat yuour speeds are the same

 

2 is called "sneaky" and basically makes it so when you use the sneak ability(increase stealth by 15 levels) when out of stealth it improves speed by 50%

 

3 is a 6 second speed boost on pistolwhip which I also think is 50%

 

None of these stack.

 

I might put this in the "abilities that people never use thread" but one thing I dont see many other scoundrels doing is using both roll and the "sneaky talent" at the begining of hutball or the begining of a map. You can toggle stealth to reset the cooldown on sneak, and esentially give yourself a 50% speed boost indefinately while out of combat. It is just risky to do so as it takes you out of stealth.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Haystak

[AlrikFassbauer]

You get a tiny, tiny plus in movement speed when you are buffing yourself - as a Smuggler at least - with your standard class buff.

 

What they probably use are gaming mice with several keys built in, and are turning it around and back and forth ... and so on.

Edited April 10, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer