Katahn Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I've seen far too many cases of players not understanding the (VERY) simple stat system tht SWTOR uses. In fairness they might be used to older BW games, or just new to RPGs generally, and not understand. The problem is the game does nothing to help them. This then turns into the kind of drama-fodder we see in the "crazy people in groupfinder" threads and innumerable complaint threads. So please just restrict gear to a particular set of base classes based on its stats and armor weight class (or just make all armor adaptive and restrict by stats alone). Strength gear only can be needed by Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors, Willpower by Consulars and Inquisitors, etc. Furthermore make off-stat or inappropriate gear simply not equippable in the first place. Lastly, allow f2p players to give away gear they might have taken inappropriately if you do nothing else. Next please remove gear from companions. You've already just about done that by handing out 192 gear sets at level-cap, just finish this process already. Make worn gear exist only for appearance sake only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Better solution, give everyone their own loot table, no more loot rolls needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Better solution, give everyone their own loot table, no more loot rolls needed. I'd go for it. I hate when I roll a new toon and to FPs/Heroics and some ahole needs on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muljo_Stpho Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Yeah, it could be nice to see a smarter and more robust system implemented. Start with the idea of generating separate loot for each player, of course. Weighted to produce: 1) gear appropriate for that character's class (favoring advanced class and current spec as well, if possible) 2) gear appropriate for that character's companions 3) any other types of gear prioritized in that order from most to least common drops. Then each player grabs their own loot and gets presented with something similar to the need/greed window with options that read more like "take" and "roll". (Hitting the x to pass on gear at this loot level moves that item in with the "universal" loot drops. This is the loot level where items that the devs might not want dropping too commonly (like currency tokens and rare resource drops) will be generated. When somebody tries to pick up this loot it automatically gets offered up for a group roll. (Actually, maybe hitting x to drop the gear to this level should just start the group roll automatically instead of requiring that somebody else goes back to re-loot the body.)) They can just simply take the loot for themselves (which nobody else will ever know is happening because each player got their own loot to do the same thing with) or they can put a piece of their loot up for group roll. When a piece of gear is put up for group roll, each member of the group can choose to opt into the roll or pass on it. (No more need/greed. Every group roll is always on equal footing.) (Realistically, most people would probably just end up hitting take on everything offered to them, knowing that they're all getting their own separate loot anyway. But friends, guildmates, and those that are just feeling helpful may choose to initiate rolls for drops that they know that another in the group could use.) Edited April 2, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) If it's for leveling Fps sure why not even though the comms from KDY daily (20 basics per day) more than enough that I don't have to rely on loot rolls when leveling. If this a blanket attempt and interferes with Ops rolls and the sweet legacy system then no thanks. Edited April 2, 2015 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah, it could be nice to see a smarter and more robust system implemented. [snip "smarter" and more "robust" system] Why the need to complicate things? If everyone has their own loot table, the problem is solved. LotRO does it this way. I think I've read that GW2 does it this way. Edited April 3, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saito_Hiraga Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I've seen far too many cases of players not understanding the (VERY) simple stat system tht SWTOR uses. In fairness they might be used to older BW games, or just new to RPGs generally, and not understand. The problem is the game does nothing to help them. This then turns into the kind of drama-fodder we see in the "crazy people in groupfinder" threads and innumerable complaint threads. So please just restrict gear to a particular set of base classes based on its stats and armor weight class (or just make all armor adaptive and restrict by stats alone). Strength gear only can be needed by Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors, Willpower by Consulars and Inquisitors, etc. Furthermore make off-stat or inappropriate gear simply not equippable in the first place. Lastly, allow f2p players to give away gear they might have taken inappropriately if you do nothing else. Next please remove gear from companions. You've already just about done that by handing out 192 gear sets at level-cap, just finish this process already. Make worn gear exist only for appearance sake only. :NO: There is nothing wrong with the loot system. Need is used to things you need, greed/pass is used for things you dont, rolls are perfectly working, and people is getting stuff they want just fine, stop crying if you want to win all the loots from operations but someone usually rolls better than you (because that's the main reason people develop their stupid looting rules and start stupid threads like this). People knows perfectly when they need an item and they have the same right as anyone else in the group to roll and try luck for it, theres no need to adjust this system, there's even no need for the "Master Looter System" people tend to use it to scam people and keep the loot, specially inside guilds, they ask everyone to roll but even if someone outside the guild wins the roll they just keep the item or grant it to someone of the guild for X or Y excuse. (it is also stupid since you can already roll with the basic need/greed system theres no need to be grabing the items just to make people roll in chat instead.) If the game must change its loot system it should only change to force the "Need/Greed" as the only loot system of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 :NO: There is nothing wrong with the loot system. Need is used to things you need, greed/pass is used for things you dont, rolls are perfectly working, and people is getting stuff they want just fine, stop crying if you want to win all the loots from operations but someone usually rolls better than you (because that's the main reason people develop their stupid looting rules and start stupid threads like this). People knows perfectly when they need an item and they have the same right as anyone else in the group to roll and try luck for it, theres no need to adjust this system, there's even no need for the "Master Looter System" people tend to use it to scam people and keep the loot, specially inside guilds, they ask everyone to roll but even if someone outside the guild wins the roll they just keep the item or grant it to someone of the guild for X or Y excuse. (it is also stupid since you can already roll with the basic need/greed system theres no need to be grabing the items just to make people roll in chat instead.) If the game must change its loot system it should only change to force the "Need/Greed" as the only loot system of the game. Let me guess you don't do much with PUG groups right? I've been in to many PUGS where at least one person needs on everything even armor and/or weapons that are not useful to their class. I've even threatened to let them die or to leave the group of they didn't stop needing on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saito_Hiraga Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) Let me guess you don't do much with PUG groups right? I've been in to many PUGS where at least one person needs on everything even armor and/or weapons that are not useful to their class. I've even threatened to let them die or to leave the group of they didn't stop needing on everything. Been there, I dont see the problem either... people also has companions each of them with diferent stats than the player and having companions geared is also a "need" in this game if you are to beat your quests without trouble, also there's people who love the looks of the gear that drops and they want to have it to remove the mods and mod it back with mods of their class, and even you can sell the stuff for extra credits if you need to urgently get some cash for something. If you have the time to be here complaining about people who need on stuff you have time as well to be on game running quests, flashpoints, operations, etc. again so you can get more chances to roll for stuff and get anything you didn't got and made you come here to post on this thread. Edited April 5, 2015 by Saito_Hiraga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 it's one thing to ask if you can have it for your comp but to just need without saying anything is unacceptable in my book especially when there is a class within the group that would have benefited from the item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) I'm confused. Are we talking about Ops or Fps? In Ops leader sets the rules of loot regardless of how stupid or asinine they are, only recourse don't join them. If it's FP ask them why and if they don't respond kick them. In any case with the amount of comms you get from everything most people are only going for the look of the gear now. Edited April 5, 2015 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavantDreadtech Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Like it or not, this is how the game is played. player can put in need or greed if they want to. If you don't like it better off asking that all members of groups get the same items and no longer put in need or greed and roll for item. I never liked group play for this reason which is why I don't do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The companion system complicates this matter a bit I think. If all players are restricted to only roll need when the item matches gear designated for their class, then they have to rely on greed rolls if there are any items they want for whatever reason that do not match their class. This type of system becomes prone to exploitation in the same manner as the current system. It changes the dynamics of the issue without really solving the issue. A personal loot system would prevent one person from being greedy, however in order for players to ever acquire the items that are not matched to their class, then the system would have to allow the full sum of the loot table to be available on the personal loot system. While this is fair and prevents exploitation, it becomes quite frustrating when you need Wisdom gear and go through 5 or 6 flashpoints without seeing a single drop that has Wisdom on it. None of these systems are without flaws. Some players may prefer one of them over another, so I see no reason that alternative loot systems can't be implemented to allow players to have more control over how loot drops, but I imagine this would drive the queue times for randoms up quite if players were given the choice to queue with specific loot rules in effect, or there would be a lot of arguing in groups about which loot rules should be used. Personally, I think the existing loot rules are sufficient when players use all of the tools given to them. When you encounter someone who abuses the rules, you can vote to remove them from the group or use the ignore feature. Ignoring them will prevent them from showing up in your random groups and if the vote to kick fails you can always leave the group yourself and queue again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZambedosNB Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Been there, I dont see the problem either... people also has companions each of them with diferent stats than the player and having companions geared is also a "need" in this game if you are to beat your quests without trouble, also there's people who love the looks of the gear that drops and they want to have it to remove the mods and mod it back with mods of their class, and even you can sell the stuff for extra credits if you need to urgently get some cash for something. If you have the time to be here complaining about people who need on stuff you have time as well to be on game running quests, flashpoints, operations, etc. again so you can get more chances to roll for stuff and get anything you didn't got and made you come here to post on this thread. This is exactly why this system is being asked for. Needing on items because you need credits is not considered fair by most people playing this game. Everyone needs credits. That's why the greed button is there. It literally spells it out for you. Greed is for credits. If I had no interest in making credits, I would hit pass. And for the record, needing for companions is also frowned upon. So...thanks for proving the OP's point? I for one think I prefer the Need/Greed system. I even like the Master looter when its done right (even though I didnt like it at first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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