Some 3.1.1 Mara feedback

[waterboytkd]

So after pounding out a weekly, here are a key few points I would like to make about the Sent/Mara.

 

Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage change: This is good. I know a lot of people are unhappy with the 3 minute cooldown, and really, so am I. But I'd rather have this functional ability on a too-long cooldown than a nothing ability on a 2 minute cooldown.

 

The Fix: either change this cooldown to 2 minutes (which I do not think would be broken), or give Sents/Maras a passive at level 10 that changes Saber Ward's cooldown to 2 minutes (which accomplishes two things: first, we keep a 1, 2, and 3 minute cooldown; second, it gives us parity with Guards/Juggs as they got a passive modifying Saber Ward at level 10, too).

 

Reigning/Maiming Reach + Just Pursuit/Inescapable: This is WAY too much of an investment for an ability that doesn't do nearly enough. A thing to keep in mind: when Combat/Carnage or Conc/Fury are within 10m, they're ready for bear with either a CB/DB + Dispatch/VT in a Precision/Gore window, or just a simple Zealous Leap/Obliterate. So maybe if we ended up with a 30m throw? Maybe. Evaluating them separately, Reigning/Maiming Reach is decent for a skillful utility (more for the -2 focus/rage cost than anything), while Just Pursuit/Inescapable isn't even remotely worth the Heroic Utility point.

 

The Fix: if these two utilities are to stay, I would change it slightly: have Reigning/Maiming Reach increase the range on Leg/Crippling Slash by 16m (making it a 20m attack), then have Just Pursuit/Inescapable also increase the range on Leg/Crippling Slash by 10m (so if by itself, it gives us a 14m root, if taken with the Reach, it gives us a 30m root). OR, and I think this is better, but it's a bit more powerful, leave Reigning/Maiming Reach alone, and change Just Pursuit/Inescapable so it gives both Leg/Crippling Slash AND Dual/Twin Saber Throw a root (giving Sents/Maras a 30m root that has Line of Fire AoE root).

 

The UBER Fix: replace Leg Slash/Crippling Slash with Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw. Then change Reigning/Maiming Reach to add 20m to the range (for 30m total) and -2 the cost. Then, obviously, Just Pursuit/Inescapable modifies Crippling/Deadly Throw instead of Leg/Crippling Slash. I call this the UBER Fix because, and I can't emphasis this enough, it's what almost every single Sent/Mara player would prefer.

 

Transcendence/Predation: This ability is the bee's knees. I've been switching from Fleetfooted/Unbound and spamming it, to not running that utility and using Zen/Berserk instead. What I can say with full certainty: my team and I do WAY better when spamming Predation. Yeah, I take a dps hit, but that's nothing. The point? I'm playing Combat/Carnage, so not using Berserk doesn't really impact me much. I would hate the idea of running Conc/Fury (a spec I truly love; well done Devs on the redesign for Focus/Rage and Conc/Fury) and not having Berserk.

 

The Fix: I'm gonna steal Jack Nader's idea: give Zen/Berserk a cooldown and divorce it from the centering/fury system. I know a lot of people call for that fix for Predation, but spamming predation is the best thing we can do on this class. By putting Zen/Berserk on a cooldown, it solves the mobility vs dps issue, AND it makes Contemplation/Brooding less demanding as we can open with a Berserk. BUT, to keep Contemplation/Brooding a desirable utility, I'd add: "In addition, exiting combat finishes the cooldown on Zen/Berserk." We still have to sit for 7 seconds to get a Transcendence/Predation off, but any combat exit means we get to open with Zen/Berserk again.

 

Though there's a million threads about how to fix Sents/Maras, with just the above 3 (really, even just the first and last one--you could leave the Reach+Just Pursuit/Inescapable utilities alone), I think Sents/Maras would once again be a viable class for PvP, and a lot of QoL would be solved.*

 

*Except Watchman/Annihilation. That spec needs work, or work undone, to be specific.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Sorry, but you're losing your time, hoping they will listen to their playerbase.

 

Look at what they promised us with 3.1.1 for Sent/Mara, what we players gave them in the feedback thread to improve and wisely buff the class, and look what they finally did.

 

Nothing more than 1% of what we asked.

 

They just don't care, or they will only take in count our feedback for the next Xpac, when the meta of the game will be completely different and our ideas completely obsolete.

 

You'd better give up and use your energy on something else.

 

I think you can guess that I'm tired.

 

Tired because we have been investing a lot of our energy to give them a solid feedback and a solid idea of what we are waiting for our class to be changed, bypassing the trolls or non constructive players posting in the thread.

 

I have now given up, and I'm leaving the boat after 3 years on the game on my Combat Sent.

 

Good luck with your hopes and your great ideas, it has been an honor to debate and discuss with you about what could be done for our beloved class to become viable, competitive and fun again.

 

See you on another game sometime !

Edited March 17, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[XeniusX]

I like all of these fixes. It could be argued that defensive forms and camo break should be baseline (at the very least defensive forms, anyone that doesn't have it are gimping themselves greatly) but with these fixes we are in a good spot.

 

Too bad, that since they've already "fixed" us, nothing is probably happening untill i quit this game out of boredom and annoyance with everything that 3.0 brought and didn't bring.

[waterboytkd]

I totally understand the frustration and fatigue of those dedicated Sent/Mara players who have been pouring themselves into feedback, only to see the small adjustments made in 3.1.1.

 

The only thing I would say is: Bioware has been doing small class adjustments for everything so far (only two patches in, I know), even Serenity/Hatred, which is overperforming by so much that even Serenity/Hatred players think they need a nerf, was only given a small adjustment. This is a good thing.

 

It means they're now using a schedule of rapid but small adjustments to try and zero in on balance. I don't think it's hopeless for Sents/Maras yet. However, I would advise any Sent/Mara player out there who's frustrated with the class in PvP to give Guard/Jugg a whirl. It plays a lot like Sent/Mara, but with a higher degree of QoL.

[Trogusaurus]

I like all but the last fix, as it neglects the PVE setting our class currently flounders in. Putting Zen on a CD seriously hurts Anni/Watch and Conc/Fury as both are very Zen reliant for optimal damage. Add to the fact that both fall far short of their ranged class counterparts' DoT/burst specs even with 100% boss uptime, and your proposed change turns us from a mobile parsing dummy into a really fast mobile parsing dummy for NPCs.

 

Again, the rest of your post is fantastic, but will likely fall on blind eyes. The devs are doing a pretty good job at ignoring us right now :/ .

Edited March 17, 2015 by Trogusaurus

[g_mK]

Last idea is terrible since it affects negatively all 3 specs PVE rotation on a class that is already struggling to keep up with ranged.

[JackNader]

I like all but the last fix, as it neglects the PVE setting our class currently flounders in. Putting Zen on a CD seriously hurts Anni/Watch and Conc/Fury as both are very Zen reliant for optimal damage. Add to the fact that both fall far short of their ranged class counterparts' DoT/burst specs even with 100% boss uptime, and your proposed change turns us from a mobile parsing dummy into a really fast mobile parsing dummy for NPCs.

 

Again, the rest of your post is fantastic, but will likely fall on blind eyes. The devs are doing a pretty good job at ignoring us right now :/ .

 

Fraid you are 100% wrong here. Putting zen/berserk on a cooldown has ZERO effect on PvE. It is actually BETTER for PvE. Why? Because Bioware already knows how fast a mara / sentinel is supposed to build their fury stacks. It takes between 15 and 20 seconds to build fury stacks right now when NOT being attacked (assuming defensive forms). All Bioware has to do is decide on the allotted time and set the cooldown to this.

 

In other words -> You open with berserk up. Once your stacks are used up the ability goes on cooldown. After the cooldown expires in 15 - 20 seconds time, bererk is ready again. It is functionally no different at all to live. In fact it is a definitive buff because berserk is now more reliable and manageable.

 

Frenzy would reset the cooldown of berserk allowing for a double berserk. I'm ok with berserk resetting on combat exit as well.

[JackNader]

Copy and paste from the PTS mara thread

 

 

Let's be clear on the problems with marauder.

 

I've stated this many times. Any marauder who chooses the "unbound' utility should have ZERO problems with mobility. You should be all over your targets like a bad rash. They don't need unstoppable. They don't need 4 or 6 seconds worth of root immunity. That one talent is ENOUGH. How many marauders are actually using their predation properly? Not many! I see it all the time when I am vsing marauders on my ranged classes. They come at me and pop berserk and I can't help but face palm. What good is berserk when

 

a) You can't reach your target

b) You can't build fury stacks while berserk stacks are on your bar.

 

The #1 issue with marauders is that predation completely overshadows berserk. Now if carnage was the only marauder spec in the game, this wouldn't even be an issue. However, both FURY and to a lesser extent annihilation "require" berserk prioritization to perform their rotations.

 

The #2 issue is that Bioware ripped all their survivability talents out of the disciplines and crammed them into utility points and that you literally cannot get back the survivability or utility that you had prior to 3.0 for any spec. You would need.

 

Carnage

 

4 Heroic points, 3 masterful points and 4 skillful points

 

Smash

 

1 heroic point, 4 masterful points, 3 skillful points

 

Annihilation

 

1 heroic point, 4 masterful points, 3 skillful points

 

That's also not including things like rupture snare, etc which are now gone.

 

How do we fix this mess?

 

First up we have to address the predation / berserk disparity. Predation suits the fury system far better than berserk. This is because you can still build fury while predation is active. Getting attacked allows you to build fury faster which also means more predation. That's exactly what you want. Berserk, on the other hand is basically a burst damage buff. It doesn't need to be on the fury system except for the fact that Bioware was aiming to shake things up and make it a little different to the juggernaut. Berserk takes around 15 - 20 seconds to acquire when NOT being attacked ( Assuming Defensive forms is taken.)

 

Therefore:-

 

Give berserk a flat cooldown of roughly 15 - 20s. The cooldown is beneficial in instances where you are getting knocked off your target a lot and can't deal damage to generate berserk stacks. The cooldown starts when your berserk stacks are consumed. It could be viewed as a slight nerf in PvP. However, given the fact that you can't even reach your target in this meta without predation, it ends up being a non issue.

 

Frenzy resets the cooldown of berserk.

 

Predation is left unchanged.

 

The next thing we need to sort out are the utilities.

 

The only utility that marauders absolutely cannot do without is the movement impairment cleanse on predation. This one utility is the difference between a marauder being all over a target like a rash or being kited to bits.

There are 3 talents located in masterful which, while not vital, will greatly extend the marauders survivability. Those talents are cloak of anihilation (cloak of pain cooldown reduction), Defensive roll(30% aoe reduction) and Displacement (cloak of pain while stunned.) Everything else is meh. They only really need to shift one of these talents into the skillful tree to iron things out.

 

Therefore:-

 

A) Make predation cleanse movement impairing effects as baseline for only you. Unbound can be left untouched. That is, it will grant 30% movement speed and extend the cleanse to your team.

b) Move defensive roll into skillful.

c) Move maiming reach into masterful. A lot of people are complaining about this talent not being baseline or believe it should be merged with the crippling root in the heroic section. Realistically, if your using predation properly you shouldn't be needing it. The range on it is pretty useless and the root is more a utility for your party than to prevent being kited. In fact the only reason to take this talent is for the 2 rage cost reduction on crippling slash which should be used to debuff heals.

 

That's pretty much it. These changes will prevent you from being kited to bits, extend your survivability greatly and allow you to pick up all the required utilities with a couple of points to spend on whatever you want.

[-Yui-]

These are all good QoL changes that do not go far enough.

 

A few notes:

 

But I'd rather have this functional ability on a too-long cooldown than a nothing ability on a 2 minute cooldown.

 

In most scenarios, Undying Rage is still used as a last ditch cooldown. Sure, the no health lost is nice -- but honestly, in almost every possible situation with a healer/tank, the old Undying was more than enough to escape death. The extra minute is just, interestingly, Bioware's attempt to "balance" the class around some weird double standard that ended up making an alright buff (not that amazing in the first place) somewhat mediocre/negative. Bioware giveth and taketh away.

 

Reigning/Maiming Reach + Just Pursuit/Inescapable

 

Really, the Mara utilities needs to be looked at as a whole. I agree that the Leg Slash investment is too large, and the simple fix would be to just revert all changes back to pre-3.0. About 2/3rd of the entire Utility tree is less than useless, and a majority of those could be remade to help Mara survivabilityl/cc-immunity/self-heals/whatnot.

 

I've been switching from Fleetfooted/Unbound and spamming it, to not running that utility and using Zen/Berserk instead. What I can say with full certainty: my team and I do WAY better when spamming Predation.

 

You're putting too much thought into what has traditionally been one of the hallmarks of Carnage. Predation is fine where it is right now. Divorcing it entirely from the Zen system a) marginalizes one of the most fundamental aspects of the class and b) why not just give Maras a *********** force speed then.

 

I think Sents/Maras would once again be a viable class for PvP, and a lot of QoL would be solved.

 

The QoL changes that you suggested are perfectly fine, but honestly, trying to do so is tantamount to improve the quality of life in a village in Ethiopia when other classes are in a penthouse in New York. The entire class needs a review, from damage output to survivability. You know there's something very wrong with the class when Jugs get a 1.5 minute Lay on Hands while Maras get a pitiful 3-minute Divine Shield.

 

In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy doing 2k dps/100-200k protec/200k healing on my Jug that just turned 60 2 days ago. There really is no comparison.

[XeniusX]

Copy and paste from the PTS mara thread

 

The #1 issue with marauders is that predation completely overshadows berserk. Now if carnage was the only marauder spec in the game, this wouldn't even be an issue. However, both FURY and to a lesser extent annihilation "require" berserk prioritization to perform their rotations.

.

 

Okay, i've seen you've said this stuff before; please stop. It makes me think you don't know or have ever played Carnage successfully. Carnage is definetely dependant on Berserk for it to be a proper spec, without it there are literally no point in playing Carnage imo. It's all about that speed m8, when you hardswitch its all about getting it out as fast as possible. Also, not to mention the reduced cost on Massacre.

 

I would even argue that Fury spec is LESS reliable on it because of the new stack system for smash isn't that important anymore and with the "cant remember name in skillfull" utility its almost not needed the rage build.

 

However; my point: Saying that Carnage doesn't have an issue with it is just plain false.

Edited March 19, 2015 by XeniusX

[Suutrar]

Copy and paste from the PTS mara thread

 

 

Let's be clear on the problems with marauder.

 

I've stated this many times. Any marauder who chooses the "unbound' utility should have ZERO problems with mobility. You should be all over your targets like a bad rash. They don't need unstoppable. They don't need 4 or 6 seconds worth of root immunity. That one talent is ENOUGH. How many marauders are actually using their predation properly? Not many! I see it all the time when I am vsing marauders on my ranged classes. They come at me and pop berserk and I can't help but face palm. What good is berserk when

 

a) You can't reach your target

b) You can't build fury stacks while berserk stacks are on your bar.

 

The #1 issue with marauders is that predation completely overshadows berserk. Now if carnage was the only marauder spec in the game, this wouldn't even be an issue. However, both FURY and to a lesser extent annihilation "require" berserk prioritization to perform their rotations.

 

The #2 issue is that Bioware ripped all their survivability talents out of the disciplines and crammed them into utility points and that you literally cannot get back the survivability or utility that you had prior to 3.0 for any spec. You would need.

 

Carnage

 

4 Heroic points, 3 masterful points and 4 skillful points

 

Smash

 

1 heroic point, 4 masterful points, 3 skillful points

 

Annihilation

 

1 heroic point, 4 masterful points, 3 skillful points

 

That's also not including things like rupture snare, etc which are now gone.

 

How do we fix this mess?

 

First up we have to address the predation / berserk disparity. Predation suits the fury system far better than berserk. This is because you can still build fury while predation is active. Getting attacked allows you to build fury faster which also means more predation. That's exactly what you want. Berserk, on the other hand is basically a burst damage buff. It doesn't need to be on the fury system except for the fact that Bioware was aiming to shake things up and make it a little different to the juggernaut. Berserk takes around 15 - 20 seconds to acquire when NOT being attacked ( Assuming Defensive forms is taken.)

 

Therefore:-

 

Give berserk a flat cooldown of roughly 15 - 20s. The cooldown is beneficial in instances where you are getting knocked off your target a lot and can't deal damage to generate berserk stacks. The cooldown starts when your berserk stacks are consumed. It could be viewed as a slight nerf in PvP. However, given the fact that you can't even reach your target in this meta without predation, it ends up being a non issue.

 

Frenzy resets the cooldown of berserk.

 

Predation is left unchanged.

 

The next thing we need to sort out are the utilities.

 

The only utility that marauders absolutely cannot do without is the movement impairment cleanse on predation. This one utility is the difference between a marauder being all over a target like a rash or being kited to bits.

There are 3 talents located in masterful which, while not vital, will greatly extend the marauders survivability. Those talents are cloak of anihilation (cloak of pain cooldown reduction), Defensive roll(30% aoe reduction) and Displacement (cloak of pain while stunned.) Everything else is meh. They only really need to shift one of these talents into the skillful tree to iron things out.

 

Therefore:-

 

A) Make predation cleanse movement impairing effects as baseline for only you. Unbound can be left untouched. That is, it will grant 30% movement speed and extend the cleanse to your team.

b) Move defensive roll into skillful.

c) Move maiming reach into masterful. A lot of people are complaining about this talent not being baseline or believe it should be merged with the crippling root in the heroic section. Realistically, if your using predation properly you shouldn't be needing it. The range on it is pretty useless and the root is more a utility for your party than to prevent being kited. In fact the only reason to take this talent is for the 2 rage cost reduction on crippling slash which should be used to debuff heals.

 

That's pretty much it. These changes will prevent you from being kited to bits, extend your survivability greatly and allow you to pick up all the required utilities with a couple of points to spend on whatever you want.

 

Sweet mother of god THANK YOU for restoring a glimmer of my faith in the forum community. Of all the well over 80+ pages that were back on the PTS when we were being proposed for buffs, you're the only person I've seen yet who makes sense while backing it up with the utility statistics of the 2.X Marauder and with a clear inside-out understanding of both Predation/Transcendence and Berserk/Zen on all specs.

 

The only thing I'd add is that the continually suggested ludicrous idea that had been out there of putting Predation/Transcendence on cd instead would have been our final nail in the coffin for raiding. Given the Ravagers/ToS blows to mdps we've all heard plenty of times about, and that other classes now have raid buffs that borrow a similar theme as Bloodthirst/Inspiration, Predation/Transcendence is now the only thing we bring to the table in 3.0 Operations that nothing can match.

[JackNader]

However; my point: Saying that Carnage doesn't have an issue with it is just plain false.

 

Again you are completely missing the point. Berserk is a burst damage boost for carnage. It has nothing else linked to it. That is why carnage always had the pred boost prior to 3.0. Carnage is a fully functional spec irrespective of berserk.

 

Fury isn't. Fury has a massive amount of its rage generation tied into it as well as shockwave stack generation.

 

Annihilation has its survivability tied into berserk as well as its damage. It loses about a third of its passive heals.

 

This is why carnage is the "Least" affected of the 3 specs when prioritizing predation over berserk.

 

If you want more proof you need only play a few warzones where you spam the hell out of predation instead of berserk in each spec.

Edited March 19, 2015 by JackNader

[Skettitangles]

This is by far the most interesting and insightful thread related to sentinel/marauder fixes yet. Gets my vote for serious dev consideration

[mateushanai]

Copy and paste from the PTS mara thread

 

 

Let's be clear on the problems with marauder.

 

I've stated this many times. Any marauder who chooses the "unbound' utility should have ZERO problems with mobility. You should be all over your targets like a bad rash. They don't need unstoppable. They don't need 4 or 6 seconds worth of root immunity. That one talent is ENOUGH. How many marauders are actually using their predation properly? Not many! I see it all the time when I am vsing marauders on my ranged classes. They come at me and pop berserk and I can't help but face palm. What good is berserk when

 

a) You can't reach your target

b) You can't build fury stacks while berserk stacks are on your bar.

 

The #1 issue with marauders is that predation completely overshadows berserk. Now if carnage was the only marauder spec in the game, this wouldn't even be an issue. However, both FURY and to a lesser extent annihilation "require" berserk prioritization to perform their rotations.

 

The #2 issue is that Bioware ripped all their survivability talents out of the disciplines and crammed them into utility points and that you literally cannot get back the survivability or utility that you had prior to 3.0 for any spec. You would need.

 

Carnage

 

4 Heroic points, 3 masterful points and 4 skillful points

 

Smash

 

1 heroic point, 4 masterful points, 3 skillful points

 

Annihilation

 

1 heroic point, 4 masterful points, 3 skillful points

 

That's also not including things like rupture snare, etc which are now gone.

 

How do we fix this mess?

 

First up we have to address the predation / berserk disparity. Predation suits the fury system far better than berserk. This is because you can still build fury while predation is active. Getting attacked allows you to build fury faster which also means more predation. That's exactly what you want. Berserk, on the other hand is basically a burst damage buff. It doesn't need to be on the fury system except for the fact that Bioware was aiming to shake things up and make it a little different to the juggernaut. Berserk takes around 15 - 20 seconds to acquire when NOT being attacked ( Assuming Defensive forms is taken.)

 

Therefore:-

 

Give berserk a flat cooldown of roughly 15 - 20s. The cooldown is beneficial in instances where you are getting knocked off your target a lot and can't deal damage to generate berserk stacks. The cooldown starts when your berserk stacks are consumed. It could be viewed as a slight nerf in PvP. However, given the fact that you can't even reach your target in this meta without predation, it ends up being a non issue.

 

Frenzy resets the cooldown of berserk.

 

Predation is left unchanged.

 

The next thing we need to sort out are the utilities.

 

The only utility that marauders absolutely cannot do without is the movement impairment cleanse on predation. This one utility is the difference between a marauder being all over a target like a rash or being kited to bits.

There are 3 talents located in masterful which, while not vital, will greatly extend the marauders survivability. Those talents are cloak of anihilation (cloak of pain cooldown reduction), Defensive roll(30% aoe reduction) and Displacement (cloak of pain while stunned.) Everything else is meh. They only really need to shift one of these talents into the skillful tree to iron things out.

 

Therefore:-

 

A) Make predation cleanse movement impairing effects as baseline for only you. Unbound can be left untouched. That is, it will grant 30% movement speed and extend the cleanse to your team.

b) Move defensive roll into skillful.

c) Move maiming reach into masterful. A lot of people are complaining about this talent not being baseline or believe it should be merged with the crippling root in the heroic section. Realistically, if your using predation properly you shouldn't be needing it. The range on it is pretty useless and the root is more a utility for your party than to prevent being kited. In fact the only reason to take this talent is for the 2 rage cost reduction on crippling slash which should be used to debuff heals.

 

That's pretty much it. These changes will prevent you from being kited to bits, extend your survivability greatly and allow you to pick up all the required utilities with a couple of points to spend on whatever you want.

 

I completely agree with you and pray that the devs read this and make such simple changes that would bring back balance to the force.

[DethlaHadyn]

Predation should be an innate ability to all marauders, one that doesn't require 30 stacks of fury. Put it on a 30-45 second cooldown. Do you see them attatching a heat cost to Bounty Hunter's Hydralic Overrides?

[g_mK]

Predation should be an innate ability to all marauders, one that doesn't require 30 stacks of fury. Put it on a 30-45 second cooldown. Do you see them attatching a heat cost to Bounty Hunter's Hydralic Overrides?

 

This ^

[XeniusX]

Again you are completely missing the point. Berserk is a burst damage boost for carnage. It has nothing else linked to it.

 

Again ? what again? What are you talking about.,

 

That is why carnage always had the pred boost prior to 3.0. Carnage is a fully functional spec irrespective of berserk.

 

Fury isn't. Fury has a massive amount of its rage generation tied into it as well as shockwave stack generation.

 

Annihilation has its survivability tied into berserk as well as its damage. It loses about a third of its passive heals.

 

This is why carnage is the "Least" affected of the 3 specs when prioritizing predation over berserk.

 

Then say that then.. not what you said in the original text.; quote: "The #1 issue with marauders is that predation completely overshadows berserk. Now if carnage was the only marauder spec in the game, this wouldn't even be an issue"

 

Berserk is a burst damage boost for carnage

 

Exactly, so stop saying that it "isn't an issue". Burst is alpha omega in PvP, and btw you also seem to forget the reduced cost on MS.

Edited March 20, 2015 by XeniusX

[clearsighted]

The UBER Fix: replace Leg Slash/Crippling Slash with Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw. Then change Reigning/Maiming Reach to add 20m to the range (for 30m total) and -2 the cost. Then, obviously, Just Pursuit/Inescapable modifies Crippling/Deadly Throw instead of Leg/Crippling Slash. I call this the UBER Fix because, and I can't emphasis this enough, it's what almost every single Sent/Mara player would prefer.

.

 

This is why no one takes these Mara wishlists very seriously.

 

The Guarded by the Force change was a massive boost for ranked pvp, where cooldowns don't matter (they get reset between matches).

 

The only suggestion given here that makes real gameplay and balance sense, is putting Predation on its own cooldown.

Edited March 20, 2015 by clearsighted

[JackNader]

I'm not going to split hairs with you and I have little patience for trolls. So far all you have brought to this thread is pedanticism.

[clearsighted]

nm /5char Edited March 20, 2015 by clearsighted

[JackNader]

The only suggestion given here that makes real gameplay and balance sense, is putting Predation on its own cooldown.

 

Facepalm

 

Let me get this straight. Marauders suffer from problems staying on target and the solution you want to support is one that exasperates the problem 3 fold.

 

Ok so let's say hypothetically you put it on a cooldown. Let's use 30 - 45 second cooldown because that is what has been suggested numerous times. You open up and are rooted and kited. You pop predation, breaking the root and chase them down for 15 seconds till your pred drops off. Now what? You get slowed / rooted and explode and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

This kind of situation is IMPOSSIBLE in the present meta. You pop predation and 10 - 12 seconds later ( with defensive forms ) you have 30 fury stacks ready to go to refresh your pred. Why on earth would you want to trade this for a cooldown? It's nuts.

Edited March 20, 2015 by JackNader

[UrbanSaint]

Facepalm

 

Let me get this straight. Marauders suffer from problems staying on target and the solution you want to support is one that exasperates the problem 3 fold.

 

Ok so let's say hypothetically you put it on a cooldown. Let's use 30 - 45 second cooldown because that is what has been suggested numerous times. You open up and are rooted and kited. You pop predation, breaking the root and chase them down for 15 seconds till your pred drops off. Now what? You get slowed / rooted and explode and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

This kind of situation is IMPOSSIBLE in the present meta. You pop predation and 10 - 12 seconds later ( with defensive forms ) you have 30 fury stacks ready to go to refresh your pred. Why on earth would you want to trade this for a cooldown? It's nuts.

 

I think the argument most ppl are making for having Pred off the Fury system is because you have to always choose between being able to boost your dps vs giving yourself a gap closer (one that is arguably useless without speccing into the proper utility point) on the same system. I am inclined to agree as long as the default cooldown on pred is no longer than 30 sec and grants immunity to roots/knockbacks for its duration, otherwise, as you stated, you can always get enough Fury stacks well before a 30 sec cooldown

[JackNader]

I think the argument most ppl are making for having Pred off the Fury system is because you have to always choose between being able to boost your dps vs giving yourself a gap closer (one that is arguably useless without speccing into the proper utility point) on the same system. I am inclined to agree as long as the default cooldown on pred is no longer than 30 sec and grants immunity to roots/knockbacks for its duration, otherwise, as you stated, you can always get enough Fury stacks well before a 30 sec cooldown

 

Berserk is a flat DPS boost on a predictable fury generation timer. It takes 15 - 20 seconds to generate fury stacks without defensive forms. If any ability should go on a cooldown it would be berserk which is why it was suggested twice in this thread. Berserk can be put on a cooldown easily and be functionally the same without gimping the hell out of marauders mobility or utility.

[g_mK]

Berserk is a flat DPS boost on a predictable fury generation timer. It takes 15 - 20 seconds to generate fury stacks without defensive forms. If any ability should go on a cooldown it would be berserk which is why it was suggested twice in this thread. Berserk can be put on a cooldown easily and be functionally the same without gimping the hell out of marauders mobility or utility.

 

The problem is that there is a specific timing for when berserk comes up, particularly for both carnage and fury specs, however this timing is different for each spec; changing it to a fix CD would alter heavily the rotations, if the CD is too long then there would simply be no rotation. As it is, Berserk related to the fury system is perfectly fine. Predation is the one that needs a fixed CD.

 

TL;DR, berserk out of the fury system is a terrible idea.

Edited March 20, 2015 by g_mK

[JouerTue]

just give us unstoppable and 12 cc immunity tied with something lol, if it's so fine on juggs and assassin i don't see any problems:D