3.1.1 is a craptasm that does nothing to address the community's issues..gj eaware

[Dyvim]

The community reached a consensus about overall changes for the class (time on target, cc issues) and specific changes to each discipline (e.g., rotation changes for watchmen, precision changes for combat, etc.) and specific changes for our utilities. So we get a marginal gbtf change which no one asked for and a force camo change which also does nothing to improve our time on target and/or cc movement issues...brilliant.

 

Instead we get complete crap. We have THREE utilities that revolve around rebuke. Why? Two utilities, one of them heroic, that revolve around leg slash, when what we wanted was CRIPPLING THROW brought back. Now you want us to spend utility points for a skill we had as baseline before you screwed us. Way to piss on our backs and tell us its raining. No thanks. Contemplation should be a passive rolled into our skillset. So should defensive forms. Utility points should be optional, customization tweeks...NOT MUST HAVE, BASELINE skills or passives that everyone has to take in every build, no matter what. That is a good litmus test for you.

 

To think you actually posted in the forums to make us think that positive, appreciable change was coming and that community feedback would be considered. COMPLETELY insulting. You guys have, unfortunately, shown yourself as clueless nubs whose design kung fu is so so very weak - and you fail to listen. This is not a professional product. You guys could find a way to screw up tacos...or bacon.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Dyvim

[ZackyFeet]

I could not help but laugh out loud when I read this, especially with the raining comment, yes its sad that they took out some stuff we loved, but it the grand scheme of things its just a game, plus we can still do some decent dps..... other than that, I don't know what your main point was.

[Dyvim]

I could not help but laugh out loud when I read this, especially with the raining comment, yes its sad that they took out some stuff we loved, but it the grand scheme of things its just a game, plus we can still do some decent dps..... other than that, I don't know what your main point was.

 

Main point was that their fix did nothing to actually address or fix our issues...with the class in general or any, ANY of the specific disciplines. Got it? The community agreed our issues were time on target and relatedly, lack of cc resistance, particularly with movement impairing effects that also reduce our time on target. Secondarily, the community agreed that melee is at a general disadvantage in the game by many of the mechanics in different encounters, where there is NO reason to have melee versus taking a ranged class. Sentinels are particularly susceptible to this weakness.

 

We also agreed that watchman and combat needed specific changes to have their gameplay make more sense.

 

Sure, there are a lot of threads expressing disappointment and disbelief, but when you fail this bad EAware, you get another one.

 

Questions?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Dyvim

[Zoom_VI]

The community reached a consensus about overall changes for the class (time on target, cc issues) and specific changes to each discipline (e.g., rotation changes for watchmen, precision changes for combat, etc.) and specific changes for our utilities. So we get a marginal gbtf change which no one asked for and a force camo change which also does nothing to improve our time on target and/or cc movement issues...brilliant.

 

Instead we get complete crap. We have THREE utilities that revolve around rebuke. Why? Two utilities, one of them heroic, that revolve around leg slash, when what we wanted was CRIPPLING THROW brought back. Now you want us to spend utility points for a skill we had as baseline before you screwed us. Way to piss on our backs and tell us its raining. No thanks. Contemplation should be a passive rolled into our skillset. So should defensive forms. Utility points should be optional, customization tweeks...NOT MUST HAVE, BASELINE skills or passives that everyone has to take in every build, no matter what. That is a good litmus test for you.

 

To think you actually posted in the forums to make us think that positive, appreciable change was coming and that community feedback would be considered. COMPLETELY insulting. You guys have, unfortunately, shown yourself as clueless nubs whose design kung fu is so so very weak - and you fail to listen. This is not a professional product.

 

I agree that having multiple utilities all to just get the crippling throw root back is dumb. But the larger issue is imo the poor way bioware designed utilities.

 

If you look at the classes you notice that all non-tank AC had all of their prime utility and defensive talents that they had in their specs pre 3.0 and made them in to utiltiies.

For the three tank AC (and look who is the strong specs in PvP...) they left all of the defensive talents in the discipline tree and then gave them a pick of bonus utility trees.

 

Of course this is kinda of a general thing. Marauders and Mercs got hit the hardest with literally all of their utilities being things that used to be practically baseline to the specs. Weirdly enough Sorcs got buffed by having all their old talents as utilities, presumably because it means they get the best of both worlds when it comes to kiting utilities.

 

What bioware really needs to do is put all of the defensive utilities back into the DPS specs they came from for all AC, and then actually give everyone utilities to pick from .This would get rid of the insipid "thou shalt always take this utility"

that was a bit of a PvP rant. For PvE bioware just needs to stop making raid mechanics that penalize melee way more than ranged.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[AgustinSarro]

What's more, to be honest, I was expecting some changings towards the new PvE content. Nothing Bioware brought "new" made a change on the Ops or the Class itself for them. RDPS still have the very huge ammount of advantage, and if I'm to say I'm not going to roll for an RDPS to clear content, TBH **** ranged... they always get the best out of the game. The Trooper is so overpowered that it annoys me... and rather than balancing the classes you bring us some stupid utility for PVP (which I doubt anyone will ever use...) Seriously after weeks of arguing and exploiting the forums for a change: WE-GET-THIS? GG Bioware... *claps*

[Dyvim]

What's more, to be honest, I was expecting some changings towards the new PvE content. Nothing Bioware brought "new" made a change on the Ops or the Class itself for them. RDPS still have the very huge ammount of advantage, and if I'm to say I'm not going to roll for an RDPS to clear content, TBH **** ranged... they always get the best out of the game. The Trooper is so overpowered that it annoys me... and rather than balancing the classes you bring us some stupid utility for PVP (which I doubt anyone will ever use...) Seriously after weeks of arguing and exploiting the forums for a change: WE-GET-THIS? GG Bioware... *claps*

 

I had a conversation with one of my guilds raid leaders a couple of weeks ago. He made it clear that he, as an experience raider in this game, sees nothing but downside to taking mdps and sents in particular on raids...and I can see why. 3.1.1. did absolutely NOTHING to improve our status or change that...

[JackNader]

I had a conversation with one of my guilds raid leaders a couple of weeks ago. He made it clear that he, as an experience raider in this game, sees nothing but downside to taking mdps and sents in particular on raids...and I can see why. 3.1.1. did absolutely NOTHING to improve our status or change that...

 

Buffing MDPS because of horrendous raid design is idiotic.

[MandFlurry]

Buffing MDPS because of horrendous raid design is idiotic.

 

Wow, that was ballsy.

[Dyvim]

Buffing MDPS because of horrendous raid design is idiotic.

 

The raid environment is not the only one in this game that mdps, and specifically sentinels, are underperforming in...so yes, change is the order of the day, and change is not necessarily a simplistic buff. But something needed to be changed to move the needle in the right direction, and that clearly did not happen, anywhere.

 

But here is a clue, horrendous raid design isn't the only horrendous design we are living with in this game atm.

[XxHazenxX]

With this update, I feel like I found someone to run to the store for me to pick up a sugar free energy drink (because of muh diabeetus) and they came back with packets of sugar.

 

 

 

 

 

That analogy made sense to me, and that's all that counts

[Bu-jin]

The community reached a consensus about overall changes for the class (time on target, cc issues) and specific changes to each discipline (e.g., rotation changes for watchmen, precision changes for combat, etc.) and specific changes for our utilities. So we get a marginal gbtf change which no one asked for and a force camo change which also does nothing to improve our time on target and/or cc movement issues...brilliant.

 

Instead we get complete crap. We have THREE utilities that revolve around rebuke. Why? Two utilities, one of them heroic, that revolve around leg slash, when what we wanted was CRIPPLING THROW brought back. Now you want us to spend utility points for a skill we had as baseline before you screwed us. Way to piss on our backs and tell us its raining. No thanks. Contemplation should be a passive rolled into our skillset. So should defensive forms. Utility points should be optional, customization tweeks...NOT MUST HAVE, BASELINE skills or passives that everyone has to take in every build, no matter what. That is a good litmus test for you.

 

To think you actually posted in the forums to make us think that positive, appreciable change was coming and that community feedback would be considered. COMPLETELY insulting. You guys have, unfortunately, shown yourself as clueless nubs whose design kung fu is so so very weak - and you fail to listen. This is not a professional product. You guys could find a way to screw up tacos...or bacon.

 

I can't agree more. How are we expected to spend 2 utility points in a ranged root where we need other utilities to survive. What a joke. So much for waiting around for a solution

[Sudo]

The community reached a consensus about overall changes for the class (time on target, cc issues) and specific changes to each discipline (e.g., rotation changes for watchmen, precision changes for combat, etc.) and specific changes for our utilities. So we get a marginal gbtf change which no one asked for and a force camo change which also does nothing to improve our time on target and/or cc movement issues...brilliant.

 

Instead we get complete crap. We have THREE utilities that revolve around rebuke. Why? Two utilities, one of them heroic, that revolve around leg slash, when what we wanted was CRIPPLING THROW brought back. Now you want us to spend utility points for a skill we had as baseline before you screwed us. Way to piss on our backs and tell us its raining. No thanks. Contemplation should be a passive rolled into our skillset. So should defensive forms. Utility points should be optional, customization tweeks...NOT MUST HAVE, BASELINE skills or passives that everyone has to take in every build, no matter what. That is a good litmus test for you.

 

To think you actually posted in the forums to make us think that positive, appreciable change was coming and that community feedback would be considered. COMPLETELY insulting. You guys have, unfortunately, shown yourself as clueless nubs whose design kung fu is so so very weak - and you fail to listen. This is not a professional product. You guys could find a way to screw up tacos...or bacon.

 

 

Gota agree, hoped on to test the new nerfs, and laughed at how it addressed none of the issues. Guess i'll still park my Sent until the devs pull their heads out of their bungholes and stop playing sins, sorcs and vanguards

[LtBombshell]

What's more, to be honest, I was expecting some changings towards the new PvE content. Nothing Bioware brought "new" made a change on the Ops or the Class itself for them. RDPS still have the very huge ammount of advantage, and if I'm to say I'm not going to roll for an RDPS to clear content, TBH **** ranged... they always get the best out of the game. The Trooper is so overpowered that it annoys me... and rather than balancing the classes you bring us some stupid utility for PVP (which I doubt anyone will ever use...) Seriously after weeks of arguing and exploiting the forums for a change: WE-GET-THIS? GG Bioware... *claps*

 

lol sorry but I don't think that's quite the case. In terms of PvP "hierarchy" Mercs/Mandos are right along with Marauders/Sentinels at the bottom of the food chain.

[TearingAero]

Disclaimer: I do not PvP on my Mara/Sent. This post is directed at the changes in respect to Mara/Sents in PvE.

 

I feel like this thread downplays the effect the recent patch has done for Mara/Sents in PvE. The change to GBTF/undying rage is huge when you compare how much it was used before the change. Prior to the change to health cost, I rarely if ever used GBTF/Undying rage as a defensive cooldown because of the painful 50% cut in health after the ability was done (since it actually penalized healers if you healed a mara/sent when they activated this ability). Now I can use this ability as a proper defensive cooldown to allow me to stay on bosses longer.

 

Hard mode examples: using GBTF to stay on bulo longer instead of having to kite massive barrage circles like everyone else (and lose dps on boss), use GBTF to cheese a Vent Fire phase on Torque, use GBTF to help take an ionized cutter beam from Master droid in Master/Blaster fight, Use GBTF to cheese a white bomb/red circle in the Squadron fight, Use GBTF to take less damage during underlurker or to help cheese the cross...etc. There are lots of places you can now use GBTF, where before it wasn't helpful due to the cost in health. IMO, this was a great quality of life change for Mara/Sents.

 

I'm surprised no one has commented on the force camo changes. It actually prevents knockbacks when in use. This is a GREAT change for mara/sents in PvE since you can now cheese more mechanics (Avoid underlurker knockback, avoid squadron knockdown from white bomb (still need to test), avoid knockback from torque, avoid knockdown/back from bomb exploding in HM Master/Blaster (awesome change which allows you to cheese the mechanic with another hydraulics/entrench user)...etc.)

 

To the OP, if a raid leader is excluding a good mara/sent from their raid group, they are either preparing to take on HM Revan (this fight is extremely anti-melee and is poorly designed because of this imo), already have enough melee dps (this game has never been friendly to heavy melee raid-comps), or is blinded by the whole "anti-melee dps" rhetoric that's going around. As an example, I have raided as or with another mara/sent on most of the current HM content (8/10), and the mara/sent has performed fine.

 

IN SUMMARY: in PvE, mara/'sents got a nice boost in their toolset from the new changes to GBTF/undying rage and force camo. HM Revan sucks balls for melee dps that aren't PTs. Mara/sents are not in that bad of a spot in regards to other PvE melee dps (a watchman sentinel currently holds the top dummy parse for melee dps on parsely leaderboards: http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/leaderboard)

[Dyvim]

A dummy parse is all but meaningless, as it does nothing to capture the difficulty of melee play...you get to stand there in melee range and do nothing. Watchmen is conversely the absolute WORST pvp option as its rotation coupled with melee range restriction is epic bad.

 

The GBTF change would have been fine if the damage was upfront...then healers aren't wasting their healing...and it should have been left at 2 min. But they just had to nerf the CD on it.

 

Force camo change is again ok, but NOT responsive to what the community asked for or elaborated on when it comes to the MAJOR problems facing the class.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Dyvim

[TearingAero]

Actually, a dummy parse is useful for comparing single target DPS between the classes. A parse in a boss fight can have AoE fluff damage (see Malaphar or bulo) which inflates a DPS's number and can change depending on the raid's strategy. But anyway, here is a link to HM squadron parses, which shows that mara dps is in the top running for that fight http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/operations/sword-squadron/8/HM/dps/all/all/all/0/

 

I can't really comment on watchman in pvp. Most sents that I see in pvp run combat/concentration anyway.

 

The 3min CD on GBTF is fine. Most pvp'ers are concerned about arena balance primarily (since that's where ranked happens), and most arena matches last less than 2mins so you'd still only get 1 use out of it. I don't see why 2 min vs. 3 min would have any real effect on the class in ranked pvp.

 

I think bioware definitely needs to communicate more in regards to class balance, but bioware does not have to give the mara/sent community exactly what it asks for. That's just crazy talk.

 

Maybe if the forums had a more friendly and discussion-oriented atmosphere, they'd be more inclined to be open about their current point of view on class balance...(but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part)

[Dyvim]

The community was far more positive after Eric said we were getting a series of fixes...until they then ignored the community and delivered "fixes" that were completely unresponsive to what the community had discussed, here and on PTS forums. That kind of put a negative spin on the thoughts and posts from the community....after EAWare ignored it and proved themselves unresponsive to it. Go figure. Edited March 17, 2015 by Dyvim

[SOULCASTER]

What bioware really needs to do is put all of the defensive utilities back into the DPS specs they came from for all AC, and then actually give everyone utilities to pick from .This would get rid of the insipid "thou shalt always take this utility"

that was a bit of a PvP rant. For PvE bioware just needs to stop making raid mechanics that penalize melee way more than ranged.

 

Yeah I'm definitely ok with 2, maybe even 3 utilities out of the 7 being "MUST HAVES" but for some classes (like sentinel/mara) there are literally 9 or 10 MUST HAVES but you only get to pick 7 hahah.

 

Utilities should be like "here are all great OPTIONS, pick your preference". They should NOT be "here are all utilities you NEED but you can only pick a few"

Edited March 17, 2015 by SOULCASTER