Is it too much to ask for some sort of gear requirement before ppl Q for 60 HMFP?

[BorisKarloffe]

So...for the sixth time this week alone, I've just dumped a group that couldn't get past the first boss of a 60 HMFP and getting pretty frustrated that it's taking me 2-3 weeks to just get the Galactic Conflicts weekly done.

 

I understand there's nothing to be done if a player lacks the skill/knowledge to perform effectively, or lacks awareness not to stand in stupid. Those are just part of life via Groupfinder and to some extent MMOs in general.

 

What I do think is possible is much like ppl have been asking for awhile for ranked, is that there be some sort of gear requirement to get in the queue.

 

Half the time I get a pop, no matter what role I'm playing, I'm always seeing someone with 35-42k health thinking they can cut it, and it never works out.

 

The other not as common problem is ppl queuing as tanks without any/much tank gear at all.

 

If you mouse over the icon for 60 HMFP in groupfinder, for some reason (not updated?), it says recommended gear is 148. That's like, Campaign gear from way back when. Seriously?

 

I don't mind hard content, in fact I welcome it so long as Bioware can ensure all players know what will be expected of them in said content.

[Pirana]

I agree, there absolutely needs to be a gear requirement. If said person does not meet that, they cannot queue. Anytime I queue, first thing I check is their gear. If the group is not over 47k, it's going to be a rough ride.

 

Run the old HM 55's, (CZ's/Athiss/Cad/Hammer etc.) see if you get credit for the HM 60's, I still do, on both factions for that matter. Run three HM 55's, the Galactic Conflicts Weekly (60) is completed.

 

 

Half the time I get a pop, no matter what role I'm playing, I'm always seeing someone with 35-42k health thinking they can cut it, and it never works out.

 

If someone in the group shows up with that low of HP, I tell them, "insert name, you're not geared for this". If they refuse to leave, I initiate a group kick, if said person is not removed, I exit.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Pirana

[YellowRabbitLord]

The first time I grouped for a lvl 60 FP I was in lvl 55 standard gear. According to GF this was more than sufficient. When I arrived one of the others explained to me that I was undergeared especially since I am a healer. I argued of course that my gear was better than the recommended one but if they wanted me to leave I would. They decided to give it a try and on the first boss we wiped; it was close but even I could see that my heals were not sufficient. So I left after thanking them for trying it with me. I did not try again until I had full lvl 60 gear with augments

 

The moral of the story: there is a recommendation that is simply too low, but most people need to experience it to understand why. If you do not let people experience it, then how will they learn and understand. If they do not understand they will simply believe that you are elitist, or that is all about gear. So as long as the text in GF is not updated accept that people will arrive with too low gear, and if possible let them feel why it is too low instead of simply kicking them.

 

Of course if they refuse to understand after the first (near) wipe ... kick away

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Yeah hate to burst your rant bubble, but in full 192 resurrected, with augs my healer is right at 42k. Good luck booting the healer, more then likely if your dps, trying to boot a healer...I think you know how that is going to work out.

[Loc_n_lol]

Yeah hate to burst your rant bubble, but in full 192 resurrected, with augs my healer is right at 42k.

 

With augs ?

That doesn't seem right.

 

But.. yeah, full 178 gear (the actual recommended minimum, and viable for all but BH at the moment) should put you right around 40k HP.

[BorisKarloffe]

Yeah hate to burst your rant bubble, but in full 192 resurrected, with augs my healer is right at 42k. Good luck booting the healer, more then likely if your dps, trying to boot a healer...I think you know how that is going to work out.

 

That's simply not true. Full 192's would put you AT LEAST at 45-47k, augged would be even more, depending on the augs.

 

As to doing the old HM 55s to get credit for the weekly, not only would that not be new or interesting since I did them to death at 55, I can kiss goodbye getting any optimized enhancements (since the 60hmfp's drop mk2 stuff now), mounts, decos, or achievements I want.

 

If the minimum gear requirement is actually 178, instead of the listed 148, you have to ask yourself if MOST players could do ALL those HMFPs in that gear. If Blood Hunt is that much harder than the others, then balance it out or separate it. Got two Blood Hunt pops this week and both times the healer bailed a soon as they saw it was blood hunt.

[Declan_Vee]

Really not going to help much. Gear and "HP pools" don't mean squat if people are unable to perform adequately.

[power-alex]

How would you implement that? Consider this - I log on my jug, put on my dps gear, spec as dps and go for some dailies, while queuing as dps/tank - how would group finder know whether I have tanking gear or not?

Sometimes I log in on my naked toon, who's gear is in legacy storage and q for a fp, while alt-tabbing to watch youtube. How would gf know whether I have gear or not?

Or I put on my pvp gear and q for both pvp and a flashpoint. How would gf know whether I have pve gear or not?

[Shwarzchild]

I feel like there is a lot of exaggerating going on in this thread. People take two to three weeks to beat three hard modes? It takes me one day to group finder the weekly. Two weeks is a crazy long time. Thats almost unbelievable.

[psandak]

The first time I grouped for a lvl 60 FP I was in lvl 55 standard gear. According to GF this was more than sufficient. When I arrived one of the others explained to me that I was undergeared especially since I am a healer. I argued of course that my gear was better than the recommended one but if they wanted me to leave I would. They decided to give it a try and on the first boss we wiped; it was close but even I could see that my heals were not sufficient. So I left after thanking them for trying it with me. I did not try again until I had full lvl 60 gear with augments

 

The moral of the story: there is a recommendation that is simply too low, but most people need to experience it to understand why. If you do not let people experience it, then how will they learn and understand. If they do not understand they will simply believe that you are elitist, or that is all about gear. So as long as the text in GF is not updated accept that people will arrive with too low gear, and if possible let them feel why it is too low instead of simply kicking them.

 

Of course if they refuse to understand after the first (near) wipe ... kick away

The problem is that you are the exception, not the rule. You understood that there was something wrong with you/your character, most players blame everyone BUT themselves, and kicking them does not help them understand.

 

That being said, I agree with Power-alex, implementation of a gear requirement is nigh impossible due to changing specs and gear for various activities.

[jrwellworth]

I agree, there absolutely needs to be a gear requirement. If said person does not meet that, they cannot queue. Anytime I queue, first thing I check is their gear. If the group is not over 47k, it's going to be a rough ride.

 

Run the old HM 55's, (CZ's/Athiss/Cad/Hammer etc.) see if you get credit for the HM 60's, I still do, on both factions for that matter. Run three HM 55's, the Galactic Conflicts Weekly (60) is completed.

 

 

 

 

If someone in the group shows up with that low of HP, I tell them, "insert name, you're not geared for this". If they refuse to leave, I initiate a group kick, if said person is not removed, I exit.

 

Funny enough, my shadow tank, while still having the 4 pc dread forged set bonus, and 2 pc 192 set bonus, with some dread master thrown in and 186 crafted enhancements, I still only top out at around 46, and my mitigation is excellent, I have no problems what so ever clearing either of the 60 ops, and we are going to start working on HM soon, but of course I will be in all 192 token for that. If you just look at the hp of someone, that's not gear checking.

 

Edit: Ranked pvp, that needs a gear check requirement, 2018 exp. Those poor dudes don't even get the benefit of a vote kick, and if they leave they lose rating. Those guys I feel for. For flashpoints, people just want it like it was at the end of the 2.X cycle, faceroll everything. It will get that way soon enough. For those that don't feel that way and genuinely want a gear check, I'd say I could get behind something like that, after the ranked guys get one.

Edited March 13, 2015 by jrwellworth

[mbfhl]

Yeah hate to burst your rant bubble, but in full 192 resurrected, with augs my healer is right at 42k. Good luck booting the healer, more then likely if your dps, trying to boot a healer...I think you know how that is going to work out.

 

Full 192 BiS is 50k for a DPS/heals. Hate to burst your bubble

Edited March 13, 2015 by mbfhl

[Pirana]

If you just look at the hp of someone, that's not gear checking..

 

Correct.

 

Allow me to elaborate for the not so...well.......

 

When you zone in, any 'smart' player checks the gear of the others. At that point, "insert name" seems to be high on health", okay, lets check their stats and achievements. Too high on Crit for that class, too much

Endurance and Surge, etc..

 

Clear?

 

This is not complicated.

 

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Full 192 BiS is 50k for a DPS/heals. Hate to burst your bubble

 

To gain the set bonus, you just need to equip the armoring. mix crafted mods and enhancements gives you higher power and crit, with a lower number of HP. A sorcerer healer doesn't really need a crap load of HP, you can tweak your gear with 186 that allows this as well as a slightly smaller HP total, and better power & crit as a result.

Edited March 13, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt
added quote

[Dyvim]

According to EAWare, HM 60 FP only require 178 gear. Makes you wonder if anyone there plays their own game, doesn't, it?

[Juerch]

Correct.

 

Allow me to elaborate for the not so...well.......

 

When you zone in, any 'smart' player checks the gear of the others. At that point, "insert name" seems to be high on health", okay, lets check their stats and achievements. Too high on Crit for that class, too much

Endurance and Surge, etc..

 

Clear?

 

This is not complicated.

 

 

I for one feel that gear is a very poor indicator of what ppl are capable of. I've successfully healed Tython HM on my sorc in 172's (optimized). Granted we had a jugg tank at the time which makes the fight super easy, but still. I check achievements first, and if they pass (having done ToS, or TFB Hm, or something along those lines) I just leave it at that. If they fail ( no ops experience, and never done the FP HM) then the gear needs to check out, otherwise chances are good the guy will just be useless

[YellowRabbitLord]

I for one feel that gear is a very poor indicator of what ppl are capable of. I've successfully healed Tython HM on my sorc in 172's (optimized). Granted we had a jugg tank at the time which makes the fight super easy, but still. I check achievements first, and if they pass (having done ToS, or TFB Hm, or something along those lines) I just leave it at that. If they fail ( no ops experience, and never done the FP HM) then the gear needs to check out, otherwise chances are good the guy will just be useless

 

This +1

[JouerTue]

Yeah hate to burst your rant bubble, but in full 192 resurrected, with augs my healer is right at 42k. Good luck booting the healer, more then likely if your dps, trying to boot a healer...I think you know how that is going to work out.

 

wow, mine sits at 50k

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Correct.

 

Allow me to elaborate for the not so...well.......

 

When you zone in, any 'smart' player checks the gear of the others. At that point, "insert name" seems to be high on health", okay, lets check their stats and achievements. Too high on Crit for that class, too much

Endurance and Surge, etc..

 

Clear?

 

This is not complicated.

 

 

First who the hell are you to think you know what is the proper crit, power or surge? More then likely just another Dulfy lemming, that if peoples numbers dont match hers then what, you think they are beneath you for running a FP?

 

Probably one of these misinformed that thinks a sorcerer healer should be all power and no crit am I right?

[Dark_Mithrandir]

I rather go with someone that i know it's good with 168 gear and less than 40k than with some pug people out there with 192 comm stuff.

 

Some people is just bad. End of history

[tharbison]

I feel like there is a lot of exaggerating going on in this thread. People take two to three weeks to beat three hard modes? It takes me one day to group finder the weekly. Two weeks is a crazy long time. Thats almost unbelievable.

 

I recently hit 60 - last couple weeks I've been in the 55-59 HM FP GF as dps. I probably got 3-4 FP's pop in two weeks using GF as dps. It just doesn't pop. And my time is somewhat limited - I log in, and have maybe 2 hours to play if I'm lucky. Unless the GF pops in the first hour, I'm sol.

 

I've been 60 for a few days - the GF q does seem to pop a little quicker, but not much.

 

I do agree with op - min gear requirement on GF for 60 HM is 148. That needs to be changed. Not to be a gear nazi, and gear isn't everything, but, I'd bet the ranch even a group of seasoned veterans decked out in 148's would not be able to finish 60 HM FPs.

Edited March 13, 2015 by tharbison

[lightSaberAddiCt]

@tharbison

 

if you roll a dps, the most overplayed class in the game, be prepared to wait for GF to pop, that is just the way it is. But like I said earlier, on JC never had to wait more then 15m for a pop. What server are you on? Is it a populated server?

[Lecto]

Personally, I think that they need to make the LvL 60 HM FPs easier in general. Moreover, HM FPs were always what you ran to gear up for raiding. That really isn't the case anymore......

[tharbison]

@tharbison

 

if you roll a dps, the most overplayed class in the game, be prepared to wait for GF to pop, that is just the way it is. But like I said earlier, on JC never had to wait more then 15m for a pop. What server are you on? Is it a populated server?

 

I understand the issue with dps being overplayed and how that relates to q times. Although I am a founder, I haven't played much endgame content. I wanted to get my feet wet & learn FP/Ops strategies as dps first, before I bring my tank in.

 

My response was simply to explain to the other poster how it could take 2 weeks or longer to finish 3 HM FP's for the Galactic Conquest mission or whatever it's called. I guess if I could sit in front of my pc and play SWTOR all day q times wouldn't be as much of an issue

 

To answer your question, I'm on the Harbinger server, and typically play between 7-10pm ET.

[Rithoma]

Really not going to help much. Gear and "HP pools" don't mean squat if people are unable to perform adequately.

 

While what you say is true, we have to distinguish to reasons for people being undergeared:

 

1) Ignorance: a player has no idea or/and doesn't care about gear requirements and difficulty of the content. These players will most likely perform very bad.

 

2) Confidence: a player is aware of their lack of gear, but is experienced enough to make up for the lack of gear. In case it is not unjustified confidence, this player will probably perform adequately.

 

In my experience 8 out of 10 undergeared players are undergeared due to ignoramce. And 1 of the 2 confident players is overestimating his abilities. Therefore I understand the OP about being secptical when he sees players with low HP numbers.

 

Of course, gear and HP will not make a run smoother automatically. But since you usually don't know the other players in a GF group, having good gear certainly highers your chances of a successful run.

 

EDIT: I personally expect any player, who doesn't want to put any thought or effort into preparing his gear for the content he is about to play, to be a burden to the group.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Rithoma