Is BiowEAr embarrassed by their own triple-A MMO??

[Ghisallo]

Wait there some screwy math here.. SWTOR made 138 mil from cartel market and another 30 mill or so from subs. That would mean that SWTOR has about 2 million subs.. far from hardly any subs. But then says its lost money from Sims and SWTOR.. I do not get how they lost money but have made money and have almost 30 mil just form subs. and another 138 mil from cash shop....

 

The thing is pre-SoR they had 106 million from the cash shop in 2014. 139 million is from 2013. He is first not seeing that the numbers are seperated out...139 from f2p, 165 total when you also include subs etc. To make matters worse his conclusion is based on incomplete data. As of Sept. 2014 SWTOR was down from ALL of 2013. You are missing 3 months of data which include an expac launch. Really nothing to see there until we see what impact the expac has. SWTOR really wasn't putting out new content while they made the expac AND redid all the classes. That will make even more players take a vacation. However once the expac launches you will see a bump and with the name Revan attached to it probably a big one.

 

To make a conclusion you really need to see what EA has to say about the expac.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Cuiwe]

Swtor earned $165 mil in 2014. Or thereabouts. Now what worries me is the following question:

 

"Where the fk has all that money gone to ?" I mean, it's a budget of really high quality game and above 60% of TOR's original budget...

[Happy_Puppy]

The thing is pre-SoR they had 106 million from the cash shop in 2014. 139 million is from 2013. He is first not seeing that the numbers are seperated out...139 from f2p, 165 total when you also include subs etc. To make matters worse his conclusion is based on incomplete data. As of Sept. 2014 SWTOR was down from ALL of 2013. You are missing 3 months of data which include an expac launch. Really nothing to see there until we see what impact the expac has. SWTOR really wasn't putting out new content while they made the expac AND redid all the classes. That will make even more players take a vacation. However once the expac launches you will see a bump and with the name Revan attached to it probably a big one.

 

To make a conclusion you really need to see what EA has to say about the expac.

 

What I mean is that EA/Bioware was saying how well SWTOR is doing since F2P launch, that numbers were higher then ever.. then turn around and say they are reporting losing numbers... just seems.. umm.. odd.. they say hey we have more players yet less income... just seems odd.. would like to see this supposed lose of revenue from sims and swtor we all know sims was a disaster.. but to throw SWTOR under that same bus just seems off when they hyped how much better it was doing then last year.

[Ghisallo]

Swtor earned $165 mil in 2014. Or thereabouts. Now what worries me is the following question:

 

"Where the fk has all that money gone to ?" I mean, it's a budget of really high quality game and above 60% of TOR's original budget...

 

Yes... But TOR didn't have to worry about maintaining servers, a staff as large as this game, regular updates and patches/bug fixes, constant class balancing etc. On top of that what ever net profit that they make DOES NOT just get poured back into the game. The profit goes to EA. Each year, partially based on the profit from the year prior, EA give SWTOR a budget for the year. So in 2013 SWTOR made 165 million total Bioware says "we would like X million for development in 2014.". The bean counters say " we'll give you Y" and so it goes each year with different divisions looking for their budgets and the bean counters needing to show a profit for the share holders.

[Ghisallo]

What I mean is that EA/Bioware was saying how well SWTOR is doing since F2P launch, that numbers were higher then ever.. then turn around and say they are reporting losing numbers... just seems.. umm.. odd.. they say hey we have more players yet less income... just seems odd.. would like to see this supposed lose of revenue from sims and swtor we all know sims was a disaster.. but to throw SWTOR under that same bus just seems off when they hyped how much better it was doing then last year.

 

I think you may be misunderstand how things work. That is a quarterly earnings call. Each quarter they are required to produce the numbers for the shareholders. So in this quarter they are reporting a current drop in revenue when compared to the total from the prior year. However that is only including up to Q3 (I just went to to EA's own web site to confirm it, no Q4 yet.)

 

This happened every year when WoW was at it's height. They would report steadily decreasing revenue for the game as it closed in on an expac launch, then when the expac launched the next quarterly report would show the bump. Does the bump always cover the difference? Nope... But until you see the Q4 report and then total year report you don't really have the full picture... Especially in an industry like MMOs where it is cyclical... Launch Boom>slide>expac bump>slide>expac bump and so on.

 

The sites that know how earnings calls work are all saying since this was pre-SoR launch it is an incomplete picture and that it still looks good for SWTOR....so far. Maybe SoR flopped and it will still look bad, but until they produce the Q4 and final annual report no way to know. I would suspect we will see much more positive numbers when SoR is in the mix.

 

Make sense?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Cuiwe]

Yes... But TOR didn't have to worry about maintaining servers, a staff as large as this game, regular updates and patches/bug fixes, constant class balancing etc. On top of that what ever net profit that they make DOES NOT just get poured back into the game. The profit goes to EA. Each year, partially based on the profit from the year prior, EA give SWTOR a budget for the year. So in 2013 SWTOR made 165 million total Bioware says "we would like X million for development in 2014.". The bean counters say " we'll give you Y" and so it goes each year with different divisions looking for their budgets and the bean counters needing to show a profit for the share holders.

 

And that's just it, isn't it?

 

EA only takes, never gives. They gave us or Bioware or whomever nothing. They, however, took an obscene amount of things. To sign a deal with EA means to write your own obituary. Just why?

 

And that's why EA got the Golden Poop award two years in a row, beating even evil fktards like ExxonMobile(who admitted to dilluting their gas so as to sell more), Monsanto(who peddles in GMO food even if it means they'll write it in 0,1 font on a 10kg bag! Not to mention all the cancer cases their pesticides caused etc) and Bank of America(who crashed world's economy. No, not evil, where would they be?). It's simply in your face obnoxious unlike these other three.

 

Imagine all the things we could've had(after the expense costs, ofc!) if EA didn't take practically everything and left bare bones and some change. Instead of working with, I approximate, ~20 mil/year, we'd have ~100mil/year(or in the worst case: 60). No, not a penny more is it? But EA, being EvilArts they are, secured themselves even there:

 

Tor is, well, swtor. Hence they can't leave EA because then swtor would get cancelled overnight due to evil scumbags who are the current SW IP game holders. Namely, EA.

[Happy_Puppy]

I think you may be misunderstand how things work. That is a quarterly earnings call. Each quarter they are required to produce the numbers for the shareholders. So in this quarter they are reporting a current drop in revenue when compared to the total from the prior year. However that is only including up to Q3 (I just went to to EA's own web site to confirm it, no Q4 yet.)

 

This happened every year when WoW was at it's height. They would report steadily decreasing revenue for the game as it closed in on an expac launch, then when the expac launched the next quarterly report would show the bump. Does the bump always cover the difference? Nope... But until you see the Q4 report and then total year report you don't really have the full picture... Especially in an industry like MMOs where it is cyclical... Launch Boom>slide>expac bump>slide>expac bump and so on.

 

The sites that know how earnings calls work are all saying since this was pre-SoR launch it is an incomplete picture and that it still looks good for SWTOR....so far. Maybe SoR flopped and it will still look bad, but until they produce the Q4 and final annual report no way to know. I would suspect we will see much more positive numbers when SoR is in the mix.

 

Make sense?

 

I know how if works..

 

I thought he linked a annual report only missing the last 3 months of the year.

[Ghisallo]

And that's just it, isn't it?

 

EA only takes, never gives. They gave us or Bioware or whomever nothing. They, however, took an obscene amount of things. To sign a deal with EA means to write your own obituary. Just why?

 

And that's why EA got the Golden Poop award two years in a row, beating even evil fktards like ExxonMobile(who admitted to dilluting their gas so as to sell more), Monsanto(who peddles in GMO food even if it means they'll write it in 0,1 font on a 10kg bag! Not to mention all the cancer cases their pesticides caused etc) and Bank of America(who crashed world's economy. No, not evil, where would they be?). It's simply in your face obnoxious unlike these other three.

 

Imagine all the things we could've had(after the expense costs, ofc!) if EA didn't take practically everything and left bare bones and some change. Instead of working with, I approximate, ~20 mil/year, we'd have ~100mil/year(or in the worst case: 60). No, not a penny more is it? But EA, being EvilArts they are, secured themselves even there:

 

Tor is, well, swtor. Hence they can't leave EA because then swtor would get cancelled overnight due to evil scumbags who are the current SW IP game holders. Namely, EA.

 

That isn't EA though, that is every for profit company out there. Thing is the award you note is a reader's poll. I tend to treat those with a grain of salt. Example... your Monsanto thing. Yes GMOs have popularity issues BUT the only study that found GMOs are bad has been found to have major errors (such as saying "feeding rats led to more cancer" when those rats already had documented higher rates of cancer AND the increased rates of cancer in the study weren't outside the statistics for that species). Ergo it is a popularity contest, not a fact contest.

[Ghisallo]

I know how if works..

 

I thought he linked a annual report only missing the last 3 months of the year.

 

Well first it was the Q3 earnings call. Second even if it was a running tally for the year it means very little.

 

I mean does it make any sense to say, in essence, "SWTOR has made less money in 3 quarters this year than they did in 4 quarters last year... Its failing!!!" especially when they hadn't introduced any real new content in at least 2 of those quarters AND its right on the eve of launching a new expac? Given the dynamic of an MMO even if it was year to date it wouldn't say a thing about the success or failure of the game.

 

Look at WoW again... The post Cata bump brought it back up to their 11.5-12 million subscriber level. By March however they were talking about dropping to 10 million, by the end of the year they were down even further... The % of loss was pretty shocking... It was like close to 20% when it was all said and done.

 

I would wait not only to see the full report for last year BUT also wait first to see how much of a drop we get mid year, since they are supposed to releasing more content then as well. It looks like Bioware, instead of BIG single expats may be going to a more frequent, but smaller, development cycle. After that first belweather I would wait to see what they do in relation to the new movie.

 

Not last year but rather this year I think will be the indicator. Last year was them coming off the financial model change, getting a whole new class system in place and preparing the expac and a new Dev cycle. This year will be the full implementation of the new Dev cycle and them having the new movies (there is supposed to be one per year...a trilogy movie every other year and a stand alone in the "off" years) start. This is their time of trial. We'll see.

[GrimRita]

Swtor earned $165 mil in 2013. Or thereabouts. Now what worries me is the following question:

 

"Where the fk has all that money gone to ?" I mean, it's a budget of really high quality game and above 60% of TOR's original budget...

 

fixed it for you

 

Also Q4 earnings will be announced soon - the busy Xmas period. For SWTOR thats when Revan came out. But given just how many problems there were with the launch (bugs) and the fact how Strongholds bombed in terms of revenue, maybe Bioware can take a new approach and actually add some VALUE for subscribers instead of focusing everything around Cartel Coins - like the Outfit designer will be.

Edited March 12, 2015 by GrimRita

[arunav]

Look at SWTOR being broken out from the other games... http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html

 

The last financials are before the release of SoR... Currently the only reports cover January 2014-Sept 2014. All MMOs have financial and subscriber drops, which are typically steepest just prior to the launch of the expac.... especially revenue. Don't forget, total revenue also includes sales of the game itself, not just micro transactions and subscriptions.

 

Why do you think WoW typically only releases to the general public subscriber numbers after expac launches? Players consume content faster that the devs can make it...they get bored...walk away BUT often come back to check out the new expac.

 

So in 2013 they topped out at 139 million in f2p revenue. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wow-was-the-top-subscription-mmo-in-2013-star-wars/1100-6421191/ here you see the chart of their total revenue, 165 million for 2013.

 

Pre SoR Launch they were just outside of the top 10 at 106 million in f2p revenue alone...here is the analysis based on information from Super Data Research which does market analysis...

 

 

 

Also, again, don't forget that is f2p revenue only. Add in subscriptions etc and they have more than 106 million.

 

Now does this mean they would make 30 million in the last 3 months in f2p revenue? 65 million in total revenue? Even I have to say that is hopeful (bit not impossible either), but the drop will at a minimum have been greatly mitigated by SoR launch. It would not be unrealistic for it to get back into the top 10 if you look at it impartially. As such saying it is clearly in decline is more than a little jump in logic. Wait to see the numbers of the last 3 months of 2014 and if/how they carry into 2015...THEN maybe you can make that jump... But definitely not only off of the first 9 months of last year.

 

I don't understand this fascination with revenue and profits to indicate if the game is in decline. Obviously they matter to the health of the game, but as a player, when you log in, what is your current experience?

 

Ask yourself why have a subscriber reward promotion out of the blue if things were going well with that portion of the population, which spends the most on the CM as well.

 

In our guild, I regularly see commentary indicating the game is in poor shape that was never made a year or year and a half ago. Toward the end of last year, people were getting tired of the lack of new playable content, and some left (temporarily or for good), but nobody was regularly wondering when the servers and UI would function normally, or simply wonder how 3.x has so many things that don't work properly in it 3 months after launching.

 

Summary: you don't necessarily need financials to determine if the game is doing well or is in decline currently. It's pretty easy to tell simply logging in. I very much hope this changes later in the year, but don't blame players for leaving.

Edited March 12, 2015 by arunav

[Ghisallo]

Why a subscriber reward? Simple really...micron transactions are an endless cycle of feast and famine. People buy what they think is cool and then wait until something else catches their eye. The fact that SWTOR let's you sell the stuff on the GM also kinda undercuts the process with how much in the way of credits is floating around. Sub's on the other hand are steady income that gets you through the famines.

 

Also "out of the blue" is from the players perspective. Usually something like that is on the drawing board for more than a few months.

 

In the end though the only measure of success that matters in a for profit business is how much money they are making. The decisions you are talking about are driven by those financials you are dismissing.

[Ghisallo]

fixed it for you

 

Also Q4 earnings will be announced soon - the busy Xmas period. For SWTOR thats when Revan came out. But given just how many problems there were with the launch (bugs) and the fact how Strongholds bombed in terms of revenue, maybe Bioware can take a new approach and actually add some VALUE for subscribers instead of focusing everything around Cartel Coins - like the Outfit designer will be.

 

Thing is even with the issues that quarter is too short... They still will have sold however many units, gotten how ever many subs reactivated/renewed etc... THEN these players find out the issues exist. The real proof will be look through the end of this year tbh. How many people stayed through the head aches of the launch? How well does their new Dev cycle work? How well do they parlay the press of the new movie into the game? Really anyone who though strongholds were a good investment should be shot. Personal, housing is definitely a niche and the way Bioware chose to implement it was very resource intensive. They would have been far better served working on the class changes and making a bigger expac.

[arunav]

 

In the end though the only measure of success that matters in a for profit business is how much money they are making. The decisions you are talking about are driven by those financials you are dismissing.

 

I think what you may have missed in my post is it was about the players' point of view of success. We know SWTOR is profitable, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

On the other hand, 3.x has seen the game in its worst shape since launch. Endgame is also at its most shallow in 3 years. These are also important indicators of if the game is in decline or a "success."

 

I recognize some people only view SWTOR as a business, but, unless you have a stake in the profits it produces, why would a player view it on such terms?

 

We pay our subscriptions, some of us buy coins on occasion, and then would like to see a polished, fun, and consistently updated product when logging in. 3.x hasn't delivered this, in my opinion, and I'm fairly certainly many others share this view.

Edited March 12, 2015 by arunav

[Happy_Puppy]

Well first it was the Q3 earnings call. Second even if it was a running tally for the year it means very little.

 

I mean does it make any sense to say, in essence, "SWTOR has made less money in 3 quarters this year than they did in 4 quarters last year... Its failing!!!" especially when they hadn't introduced any real new content in at least 2 of those quarters AND its right on the eve of launching a new expac? Given the dynamic of an MMO even if it was year to date it wouldn't say a thing about the success or failure of the game.

 

Look at WoW again... The post Cata bump brought it back up to their 11.5-12 million subscriber level. By March however they were talking about dropping to 10 million, by the end of the year they were down even further... The % of loss was pretty shocking... It was like close to 20% when it was all said and done.

 

I would wait not only to see the full report for last year BUT also wait first to see how much of a drop we get mid year, since they are supposed to releasing more content then as well. It looks like Bioware, instead of BIG single expats may be going to a more frequent, but smaller, development cycle. After that first belweather I would wait to see what they do in relation to the new movie.

 

Not last year but rather this year I think will be the indicator. Last year was them coming off the financial model change, getting a whole new class system in place and preparing the expac and a new Dev cycle. This year will be the full implementation of the new Dev cycle and them having the new movies (there is supposed to be one per year...a trilogy movie every other year and a stand alone in the "off" years) start. This is their time of trial. We'll see.

 

I think your missing the point other are stating... From your own example of WoW they should expect then a drop after the surge form the expansion.. so if SWTOR has been losing money the whole time they have claimed its getting better... there is something truly off. They hype how much its been growing since free to play then state its losing money.. It doesn't matter that the expansion wasn't out yet. In fact its more telling as the year before there was no expansion as well and they say they are under what they did last year even though they say there are more people playing SWTOR. They claim duress while claiming victory...

Edited March 12, 2015 by Happy_Puppy

[Ghisallo]

I think what you may have missed in my post is it was about the players' point of view of success. We know SWTOR is profitable, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

On the other hand, 3.x has seen the game in its worst shape since launch. Endgame is also at its most shallow in 3 years. These are also important indicators of if the game is in decline or a "success."

 

I recognize some people only view SWTOR as a business, but, unless you have a stake in the profits it produces, why would a player view it on such terms?

 

We pay our subscriptions, some of us buy coins on occasion, and then would like to see a polished, fun, and consistently updated product when logging in. 3.x hasn't delivered this, in my opinion, and I'm fairly certainly many others share this view.

I guess my thing is I just look at me. I really don't care anymore about what other players think. I like my characters and how they worked...heck I liked the new FPs prior to this week's nerf. The only complaints I had were the bugged final Revan fight and the LAG...all of which I knew would get fixed with time. I look at the financials and if they are good then what I like about the game is likely to go unchanged.

 

I know it sounds harsh and selfish but after playing MMOs for over 16 years I have come to the conclusion that most complaints I see are as much born of hyperbole and an over developed sense of both instant gratification and myopia. By myopia I mean a narrow focus on what they want. These games only have so much in the way of staff and resources. Even with that though the soloers rage about lack of story and continuing companion interaction, the FP/OP people rage about lack there, the crafters complain about a lack of a meaningful crafting system, the PvPers complain... Etc.

 

I look at it like this... We all chose to play a game that is trying to be most things to most people. That means I simply can't expect that my personal niche will be getting constant attention, its a cycle and how much attention you get and how often is based on how many other people their data mining says enjoy the same thing. Example...looking at the number of PvP servers in this game... I am far from surprised people feel PvP balance is an issue. First some players always have and always will blame their defeat on balance and not their own lack of skill/gear. Second with the majority of this game consisting of PvE servers, Bioware's priority is going to be on PvE, even though the original sales pitches about the game were about "the war."

 

/shrug... Maybe I am just a selfish old cynic.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

I think your missing the point other are stating... From your own example of WoW they should expect then a drop after the surge form the expansion.. so if SWTOR has been losing money the whole time they have claimed its getting better... there is something truly off. They hype how much its been growing since free to play then state its losing money.. It doesn't matter that the expansion wasn't out yet. In fact its more telling as the year before there was no expansion as well and they say they are under what they did last year even though they say there are more people playing SWTOR. They claim duress while claiming victory...

 

I get that but it misses the forest for the trees.

 

We don't know all the metrics.

 

-The 2013 numbers people are looking at included the Rise of Hutt Cartel sales. That occurred in April of 2013 How much of the 2013 revenue included that? I don't know. So what impact might SoR have? It is more than possible that in comparing 2014 to 2013 they were omitting the revenue directly related to RotHC simply because SoR hadn't launched yet.

 

-The only hard numbers, for SWTOR on its own, I have been able to find on the first 3 quarters of 2013 are the f2p revenue. It is also more than possible that their choice of incentivizing Subscriptions in their financial model means they have more subscriber revenue.

 

-Companies like this often base such statements on projections. If they have made X and they expect the new product to make Y...total the two up together then things are looking up.

 

-Lastly you have the issue of perspective. When MMOs change financial models like SWTOR did they expect a bump just off of that. They expect that people who would not have considered a sub based game to check it out...spend some money...AND for some of these people to then leave saying "not for me". So they then project what they would consider a successful drop, an acceptable drop and an unacceptable drop. It is more than possible that the drop in micro transaction revenue falls into what their bean counters termed successful.

 

That is why I am saying wait. If they keep with the " things are going good" and the total revenues for the entire year are within spitting distance things are looking good. If however you see things in the next earnings call like "due to the SWTOR expansion not meeting expectations" or an in game announcement about "we had a challenging time with the launch of SoR...", then yeah there is an issue.

 

Trying to make ANY conclusion right now, good or bad, is simply an assumption because we don't have enough data. (Yes I am an anal retentive sob lol)

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I don't want SWtor to die. The next game will take place in the time frame of the films and nobody wants that. : ' (

 

Plenty of people want that.

[Happy_Puppy]

I get that but it misses the forest for the trees.

 

We don't know all the metrics.

 

-The 2013 numbers people are looking at included the Rise of Hutt Cartel sales. That occurred in April of 2013 How much of the 2013 revenue included that? I don't know. So what impact might SoR have? It is more than possible that in comparing 2014 to 2013 they were omitting the revenue directly related to RotHC simply because SoR hadn't launched yet.

 

-The only hard numbers, for SWTOR on its own, I have been able to find on the first 3 quarters of 2013 are the f2p revenue. It is also more than possible that their choice of incentivizing Subscriptions in their financial model means they have more subscriber revenue.

 

-Companies like this often base such statements on projections. If they have made X and they expect the new product to make Y...total the two up together then things are looking up.

 

-Lastly you have the issue of perspective. When MMOs change financial models like SWTOR did they expect a bump just off of that. They expect that people who would not have considered a sub based game to check it out...spend some money...AND for some of these people to then leave saying "not for me". So they then project what they would consider a successful drop, an acceptable drop and an unacceptable drop. It is more than possible that the drop in micro transaction revenue falls into what their bean counters termed successful.

 

That is why I am saying wait. If they keep with the " things are going good" and the total revenues for the entire year are within spitting distance things are looking good. If however you see things in the next earnings call like "due to the SWTOR expansion not meeting expectations" or an in game announcement about "we had a challenging time with the launch of SoR...", then yeah there is an issue.

 

Trying to make ANY conclusion right now, good or bad, is simply an assumption because we don't have enough data. (Yes I am an anal retentive sob lol)

 

I understand that.. I'm just stating that with the information right now that's out there its not hard to see why some to the conclusion that they are coming to.

 

Also EA/Bioware isn't helping.. lack of meaning full communication gives a impression of not caring. Just an example they cancel a cantina meeting do to weather that was to show case the costume designer, they say they will release the information in a blog given the cantina event was canceled. Well weeks later no blog post and now we have a new event slated next month. It's little things like that.. its shows a lack of.. well respect to their players.

 

So now players take any sort of news even if its premature and jumps to a conclusion that EA/Bioware just do not care and the reason is SWTOR makes them no money. Even if its not justified with the information at hand its the perceived view of how things are.

 

They really need to work on their PR for sure.

[Ghisallo]

Oh I agree they definitely need to work on their PR and have some more consistent messaging to the player base. Appearance can often mean more than reality. Often if players just think a game is failing they will leave, even if the reality is the opposite.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

For the past year or so, there has been little to no depthness to the communication to us, the community, to the development of this game. Even when the community team stated many times in the past that there would be more transparency in their communication to us, they've failed to stick to their word. They've even failed to address how good (or bad) this game is doing populationally. Even when they do, as time passed and subscription numbers tanked, EA continued to be less and less transparent, and it seems that the devs would release heavily commercialized huge updates before quarterly reports in order to hype subscription and/or player numbers and income made.

 

Is this game in maintenance mode, and if so, how long has it been and how long will this lack of quantity and quantity to the development of SWTOR continue? My sub is almost up and as a PvP'er and generally dedicated subscriber I fail to see anything to keep me here any longer. I hope I'm not the only one who feels the same.

 

You must live under a rock.

[Shwarzchild]

Woohoo the tortanic people are back. What a joy. <enter further sarcastic remarks here>

[Vandicus]

Woohoo the tortanic people are back. What a joy. <enter further sarcastic remarks here>

Exactly.

 

Two days of post history. "I review games and MMOs for a living" in the bio.Looks like we got another professional mmo analyst on our hands.

[EllieAnne]

I couldn't find the link but according to Forbes this game came in second behind wow for profits last quarter. I would not call that a failure.

 

Depends. From everything I've read the profits came from a slash and burn campaign against costs like developers. If a company increases profits (temporarily by laying off huge swaths of their work force), then despite what the numbers say is it really a healthy company?

[TUXs]

exactly, don't forget Ziost, togruta, and the costume designer coming soon among other things. I won't pretend that it hasn't been slow lately or that Bioware hasn't made mistakes, but still the game is far from maintenance mode still.

No offense Sangrar, but Turtuglia are cosmetic masks...they involve minimal work beyond basic artwork...and they've taken over a year to get in-game. Costume Designer will be a CC hungry beast that does far more than we wanted it to, but probably won't allow us to do what most of us envisioned.

 

The game may not be in "maintenance mode", but no healthy game allows widely known exploits to exist for over 4 weeks or cancels events they have planned with 3rd party sites due to too many bugs...3.0's quality was a huge disappointment.