Aries_cz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well Domi raises another issue. For it to work you need other controls (I forgot). First you need to have built it ratios so you can never have more than X% difference of accounts per faction per server. If you didn't you would up with one faction, likely Pub being outnumbered. Another option is a third faction but too late. Implementing this would be unpopular even at launch ("I can't play with my friends because their faction is full!!!!). Implementing it now would result in an exodus of players because you would have to basically randomly pick people to get kicked. Second I could already see Imp guilds making free Pub side accounts to gimmick the system and make it appear the imbalance isn't there. Second you would need to limit players to one faction per server. Problem is again how do you do this in a f2p game? I guess it could be made through instances. Make it so that the system spawns a new instance if the entering player would be over some preset ratio. It can already do that if entering player would be over the "max amount" of people in one instance, so I think (no idea if it could work) that it should be possible to add another "check" to this system. Yes, it ould lead to some instances being empty-ish, but that is what you get when people are munchkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_of_Mu Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I guess it could be made through instances. Make it so that the system spawns a new instance if the entering player would be over some preset ratio. It can already do that if entering player would be over the "max amount" of people in one instance, so I think (no idea if it could work) that it should be possible to add another "check" to this system. Yes, it ould lead to some instances being empty-ish, but that is what you get when people are munchkins. Some big'ol Alterac valley style warzones. Crash the server or have fun trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Some big'ol Alterac valley style warzones. Crash the server or have fun trying. But then, while you also eliminate the "why do I need to PvP to quest" you still face the "why is their PvE in my PvP." Rift had this issue with what they called Conquest zones. People first made that complaint, then said "all that happens is zergs do a loop from objective to objective.". I said " well split your zerg...part of your zerg assigned to offense another to defense, so when the other team loops around you stop em.". The answer? "I am in this for favor and prestige, I would get jack on defense." I don't know if WoW did it, FPS games or whatever but... I must regretfully report the demise of meaningful world PvP. It will be missed. It has been replaced by a cookie cutter style of game play that has no risk to balance the reward, that does not reward strategy and tactics but rather fast twitch reactions on the small scale and zergs on the large. What annoys me the most is that it is another sign that MMORPGs will soon have changed enough that the term MMORPG will not really be appropriate. The reason that these games were called that was NOT because there were hundreds or thousands logged in at once. It earned the term because these people had to cooperate, form relationships etc. in order to accomplish the goals. The more instanced and queued these games become the more they become Co-Op games that simply have a large lobby where people sit waiting for a queue pop. With the possible exception of a small circle of intimates the rest of the players in MMOs today may as well be NPCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoverNoFighter Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 if they had that with the pre-cu system we'd all still be playing swg today. Some of us are still playing SWG pre cu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Some of us are still playing SWG pre cu. When they're not here trolling or making up terms like community ambassador right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 THe issue here is with that PvP community and PvE community don't really mix. As was stated above, it is very much "why is there PvE in my PvP" (or "why I have to go to PvP area for my quest") people. Sieges in DAoC (and system in similar games) were great (heck, even WAR system of capturing zones was awesome, and it is how I imagined Conquests would work), and they combined PvE and PvP gameplay. BUt that cannot work in this game, because people are whiny when the two sides meet... That does happen alot lol, I always enjoyed both personaly. One of the things i liked about what i referencing was that it included PvE mobs in the pvp enviroment, gave it that extra thing to worry about or use as a tactic. Your fighting some player and turn the corner to find a mess of stormtroopers lol, I would have to turn tail and bust out of there like Han Solo on the death star lol. Anything that brings me to quesh or voss for some PvP action would be awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 When they're not here trolling or making up terms like community ambassador right? I love when people make self proclaimed titles for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've been in games with Open world PVP and games with PVP zones and I can tell you first hand it isn't fun especially when the retard devs put PVE mission objective inside those Zones and some PVP nut who is 20+ lvls higher attacks a lowbie who is just trying to get their PVE mission done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Even IF the engine could manage, the faction imbalance would spoil the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) So here is another idea. You pick up pvp open world quest from pvp vendor. quests like "kill X amount of players outside of warzones" but most importantly would be attack and defend missions You have to attack some of the more obscure posts of the opposite faction throughout the galaxy, when you attack the post you have to kill everything and hold it for a set amount of time. When you do this, waves of NPCs appear and you have to battle them off to acheive the mission The catch is that when you attack a post, Other players, that are flagged or opted in somehow receive a quick message across their screen that a certain base is under attack if they can get there and kill the attackers before the final wave is destoryed they get the reward for defending the base. The waves will act as a timer so huge groups dont get the advantage of burning it all down before anyone can arrive Just to keep things moving on the defender side, maybe once every hour have NPCs attack one of those bases and players will get either a message that says "we are preparing to mount an attack at ________ base" and then offer an accept mission option with a 5 min timer till the attack begins, with something similar occurring telling the opposite faction "intel reports enemey outside our base and preparing for an assault" with the same 5 min timer. On top of those features maybe some item you can earn doing the quests that you can use to locate red players on the planet you are on. Edited March 9, 2015 by kirorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 So here is another idea. You pick up pvp open world quest from pvp vendor. quests like "kill X amount of players outside of warzones" but most importantly would be attack and defend missions You have to attack some of the more obscure posts of the opposite faction throughout the galaxy, when you attack the post you have to kill everything and hold it for a set amount of time. When you do this, waves of NPCs appear and you have to battle them off to acheive the mission The catch is that when you attack a post, Other players, that are flagged or opted in somehow receive a quick message across their screen that a certain base is under attack if they can get there and kill the attackers before the final wave is destoryed they get the reward for defending the base. The waves will act as a timer so huge groups dont get the advantage of burning it all down before anyone can arrive Just to keep things moving on the defender side, maybe once every hour have NPCs attack one of those bases and players will get either a message that says "we are preparing to mount an attack at ________ base" and then offer an accept mission option with a 5 min timer till the attack begins, with something similar occurring telling the opposite faction "intel reports enemey outside our base and preparing for an assault" with the same 5 min timer. On top of those features maybe some item you can earn doing the quests that you can use to locate red players on the planet you are on. This would be fine so long as there was a stipulation that the X # of players have to be of the same lvl or higher lvl then you otherwise people who take the PVP mission would just gank lowbies that offer no challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojiro Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) This would be fine so long as there was a stipulation that the X # of players have to be of the same lvl or higher lvl then you otherwise people who take the PVP mission would just gank lowbies that offer no challenge. Usually that's what happens, as in most games pvp players outside WZ/BG's get "colour ranks" similar to mobs. The big issue here will be the obvious faction population disparity - you'd have Imps consistently outnumbering Pubs 4/5 to 1. For an example: Look at Warhammer: Age of Reckoning. The OP's idea is pretty much how W:AR worked, and the Forces of Destruction steamrolled Order without a problem most of the time. Or look at IIum's very first day. Edited March 9, 2015 by Yojiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This would be fine so long as there was a stipulation that the X # of players have to be of the same lvl or higher lvl then you otherwise people who take the PVP mission would just gank lowbies that offer no challenge. Easy solution to that problem of ganking. If the enemy player is 5 levels below, ball droids come down from the atmosphere (like the ones do when you level up) and come zap you to death. Problem = solved Give consequences for ganking. People would learn very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Easy solution to that problem of ganking. If the enemy player is 5 levels below, ball droids come down from the atmosphere (like the ones do when you level up) and come zap you to death. Problem = solved Give consequences for ganking. People would learn very fast. Gank a Lowbie and a lvl 60 Champ pops up out of nowhere to stomp your face in.............sounds like a good deterrent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_osss Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think something non faction based would be the most pragmatic. They have the tools they need on Ilum. Just instance it to keep it to numbers the engine can handle. The Western Ice Shelf could function as that instanced zone and above 30 players total players it would create a new instance. Biggest problem I believe is the faction imbalance. Only solutions i see is for them to make it faction independent somewhat like warzones or a queue system in which case there would be a longer queue for Imps than Pubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Conquest was just a credit/materials sink. Unfortunately if you want PvP you have to join warzones, or wait for the one week a year for OW PvP during the Gree event, + people QQing if they get flagged & trash talk in gen chat. Occasionally you get to defend /attack when people are taking bases out for conquest points. Most of those are one guild flexing their muscles so unless you can counter with similar numbers at a moment's notice, you cant repel their zerging. large scale OW PvP obviously didn't work before, so unless you can present the BW team with complete and tested code + new game engine -that they can simply patch in at the next update, it isn't gonna happen. or you could roll and play on a PVP server. yes, I know its a radical concept, but it has potential for giving you OWPVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Gank a Lowbie and a lvl 60 Champ pops up out of nowhere to stomp your face in.............sounds like a good deterrent to me. It could be a level 60 champ that comes out of the ground in front of you and rocket punches you for 1000000 crit damage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It could be a level 60 champ that comes out of the ground in front of you and rocket punches you for 1000000 crit damage! Having that happen to me once would be enough to make me think twice about attacking a lowbie for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Personally, I'm more into the "rpg" aspects of the game - exploring, questing, outfitting, etc - and less into the "war" aspect. I spent lots of Cartel Coins to move 5 characters from a PvP server to a PvE server just to get away from the PITA ganking and other open world pvp nonsense. Request denied! Edited March 9, 2015 by JediQuaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Usually that's what happens, as in most games pvp players outside WZ/BG's get "colour ranks" similar to mobs. The big issue here will be the obvious faction population disparity - you'd have Imps consistently outnumbering Pubs 4/5 to 1. For an example: Look at Warhammer: Age of Reckoning. The OP's idea is pretty much how W:AR worked, and the Forces of Destruction steamrolled Order without a problem most of the time. Or look at IIum's very first day. Yes, that's worrying me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Having that happen to me once would be enough to make me think twice about attacking a lowbie for sure. Exactly! That's the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Exactly! That's the point! That much damage besides insta killing you would probably break most if not all of your armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twortas Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperSonicOne Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Having that happen to me once would be enough to make me think twice about attacking a lowbie for sure. *Saber reflect.* In your champion face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 *Saber reflect.* In your champion face! While I'm not 100% sure that would work against a lvl 60 champ that does that much damage you would have to know it's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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