I think I have the wrong approach for swtor pvp.

[Mikewhiskey]

So, weird title I know. Just want to ask the community a few questions about pvp, WZ and open world. So I have only played 2 classes, marauder and assassin. I like both of them for different reasons but for the past 8 months the assassin has been my main. I made that class for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to go out into open world and pick fights and also to avoid fights when i stir up more than what I could take. I love the class, for its mobility, CC, and stealth. The damage is alright too. But since I have been hitting up yavin pretty hard I feel as if there is very few people in swtor who do open world pvp. I know WZs are the heart and soul of swtor pvp, but i literally come across people on yavin who will just stand there when i open up on them. It's to the point that I won't even kill them because they are practically giving it to me. I personally like the thrill of doing dailies with the fear of well this guy might want to take me. That side of it is pretty cool, but I think that the community in a majority could give 2 poops about open world pvp. What am I doing wrong. Surely there has got to be somewhere or something that I missing. I know somewhere out there, there is some gladiators roaming around looking for some honorbru 1v1 and 1v2s and such in the random engagement environments. What am I missing?

[Raazmir]

There is no reward for open world pvp and no punishment outside a minor inconvenience. ergo no one is interested in it.

 

People will SAY they're interested in it, but wont actually do it til there is a reward offered (see: popularity of the gree event).

[Mikewhiskey]

Thank you for the response, will take a look into this event.

[fiercephoenix]

So, weird title I know. Just want to ask the community a few questions about pvp, WZ and open world. So I have only played 2 classes, marauder and assassin. I like both of them for different reasons but for the past 8 months the assassin has been my main. I made that class for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to go out into open world and pick fights and also to avoid fights when i stir up more than what I could take. I love the class, for its mobility, CC, and stealth. The damage is alright too. But since I have been hitting up yavin pretty hard I feel as if there is very few people in swtor who do open world pvp. I know WZs are the heart and soul of swtor pvp, but i literally come across people on yavin who will just stand there when i open up on them. It's to the point that I won't even kill them because they are practically giving it to me. I personally like the thrill of doing dailies with the fear of well this guy might want to take me. That side of it is pretty cool, but I think that the community in a majority could give 2 poops about open world pvp. What am I doing wrong. Surely there has got to be somewhere or something that I missing. I know somewhere out there, there is some gladiators roaming around looking for some honorbru 1v1 and 1v2s and such in the random engagement environments. What am I missing?

 

Its just easier that way stand there you will get bored or my guildies will be here soon which ever

[ForceWelder]

I say this as someone who does but two things in game. Dailies and PVP.

 

On PoT5, the Imps outnumber the Repub by a lot. The number of Repubs on Yavin at any time is usually in the low single digits while I will come across that many Imps on any given map I am at on that planet. So getting ganked by Imps is nothing new, and to be honest isn't something that can be defended against. So by fighting back all I do is attrack more Imps which then puts be on everybody's radar.

 

By fighting back I get no dailies done. If I sit there and take the beating, I can then chose to go to a different location and try to do my dailies there, but if people think you are PVPing, you will be harassed to the point of having to leave planet and not accomplish anything.

 

If my objective is to do dailies, I have no desire to PVP. All that does is prolong completing the dailies when my gaming time is limited.

 

For the Gree event, the Imps all but control mid PVP section on Pot5. I have actually seen a line of them waiting to turn in orbs. Short of bringing a Repub army with you (that doesn't even exist), you are at the mercy of the Imps to get those dailies done. And to be honest, I have seen bands of stealth PVPers who do nothing but harass kill the Repub players who are trying to do their dailies. And of course they wait to engage until the Repub player(s) are attacking NPCs.

 

I remember the early days of this game. Back in the days when PVP consisted of Huttball and Ilum base swapping. But even then the Imps always outnumbered the Repubs and the Repubs never truly held ground long simply because of population issues. These days it is far worse than it was then. I say this as someone who plays mostly on the Repub side currently and the Repubs simply don't have the population numbers. Their player base is poorly geared for PVP and the Repub side almost feels like it has made the shift to PVE only. This far after 3.0 released and you still have far too many team members who enter PVP in raid sets or mix match gear which negatively impacts their bolster and expertise.

 

World PVP is dead in this game. The servers simply don't have the population to support it anymore. You can do it, but the opposing players you attack likely view you as a griefer than as a true pvp player.

[das_low]

^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely everything in the previous reply is on point for PoT5 Republic side.

 

I regularly one of <8 pubs on Yavin in the morning before work and all I want to do while I'm there is knock out my dailies as quickly as possible and maybe slice a little if I have spare time. I wear full PVP gear to survive/deter gank attempts and do defend myself anbd others but you will hardly ever see a pub start a fight.

 

Personal perception of world PVP is if you pick a fight with an opposing faction player while they're fighting NPCs; you're a cowardly ***. If you continue to kill the same player while they're questing and show no aggression; you're a griefing ***. If I'm traveling, gathering or simply hanging around, bring it on.

[ForceWelder]

^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely everything in the previous reply is on point for PoT5 Republic side.

 

I regularly one of <8 pubs on Yavin in the morning before work and all I want to do while I'm there is knock out my dailies as quickly as possible and maybe slice a little if I have spare time. I wear full PVP gear to survive/deter gank attempts and do defend myself anbd others but you will hardly ever see a pub start a fight.

 

Personal perception of world PVP is if you pick a fight with an opposing faction player while they're fighting NPCs; you're a cowardly ***. If you continue to kill the same player while they're questing and show no aggression; you're a griefing ***. If I'm traveling, gathering or simply hanging around, bring it on.

 

The only thing I will say to add to this is if you fight back when attacked, the other Imps in the area don't know who started the fight. So in a 1 v 1, you likely will soon be in a 1 v 2 or 1 v 3 simply because they may assume you attacked the Imp. Sit there and take it and rarely does anybody get involved from the Imp side. And to be honest, there simply aren't enough Repubs to come to your aid. They look at you like the wounded wilderbeast who just got culled from the heard by a pack of lions. While the Imp(s) are busy killing the other player, you have the chance to finish your daily or get out of dodge.

[Mclyde]

You said yu get bored that no one really try to fight you back when you attack. It's normal to feel that way since pvp is about risk linked to the fact to play against natural intelligence (in opposition with pve that stages A.I )

If you begin the fight in furtiv stance, yu just give yourself a big advantage. It's just in conflict with what pvp is : the challenge of your skill.

So you are not playing the right game, you get it mixed up with "i just want to kill someone and don't want to get hurt back" Game.

 

Wait until your target is full life, give him a basic saber attack, if he looks like he wanna fight it's ok.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Mclyde

[TUXs]

I say this as someone who does but two things in game. Dailies and PVP.

 

On PoT5, the Imps outnumber the Repub by a lot. The number of Repubs on Yavin at any time is usually in the low single digits while I will come across that many Imps on any given map I am at on that planet. So getting ganked by Imps is nothing new, and to be honest isn't something that can be defended against. So by fighting back all I do is attrack more Imps which then puts be on everybody's radar.

 

By fighting back I get no dailies done. If I sit there and take the beating, I can then chose to go to a different location and try to do my dailies there, but if people think you are PVPing, you will be harassed to the point of having to leave planet and not accomplish anything.

 

If my objective is to do dailies, I have no desire to PVP. All that does is prolong completing the dailies when my gaming time is limited.

 

For the Gree event, the Imps all but control mid PVP section on Pot5. I have actually seen a line of them waiting to turn in orbs. Short of bringing a Repub army with you (that doesn't even exist), you are at the mercy of the Imps to get those dailies done. And to be honest, I have seen bands of stealth PVPers who do nothing but harass kill the Repub players who are trying to do their dailies. And of course they wait to engage until the Repub player(s) are attacking NPCs.

 

I remember the early days of this game. Back in the days when PVP consisted of Huttball and Ilum base swapping. But even then the Imps always outnumbered the Repubs and the Repubs never truly held ground long simply because of population issues. These days it is far worse than it was then. I say this as someone who plays mostly on the Repub side currently and the Repubs simply don't have the population numbers. Their player base is poorly geared for PVP and the Repub side almost feels like it has made the shift to PVE only. This far after 3.0 released and you still have far too many team members who enter PVP in raid sets or mix match gear which negatively impacts their bolster and expertise.

 

World PVP is dead in this game. The servers simply don't have the population to support it anymore. You can do it, but the opposing players you attack likely view you as a griefer than as a true pvp player.

Absolutely!!!!

 

Great post!

[Sinisa]

you are wierd if you just pvp in warzones and dont spend all day pvping in open world, some mid guilds wont even consider taking you in if you dont openworld pvp at least 2h a day, warzones are for noobs anywayz

[ForceWelder]

you are wierd if you just pvp in warzones and dont spend all day pvping in open world, some mid guilds wont even consider taking you in if you dont openworld pvp at least 2h a day, warzones are for noobs anywayz

 

Two hours a day to open world pvp ...

 

Thats more time in game than I might spend all day doing.

 

But this is easy to say if you are on a server with comparitable population numbers. Quite simply PoT5 aint it. Do open world PVP as an Imp and your only targets will be people doing dailies. They aren't looking for a fight because they simply can't put up one. Kill them and nobody is coming to the rescue. PVP guild or not. So harass them for than a few times and they leave zone after they send out a warning the the handful of other Repubs who may be on the map. There goes your open world pvp.

 

Open world PVP as a Repub and you better bring your whole guild because nobody else is coming to help. And due to the population issues on PoT5, once the Imps spread word a Repub guild is open world pvping they will come in droves and crush you. So the Repubs simply don't do open world. Even with the Gree event on Ilum right now, you are lucky to get a 4 man Repub team together to do the PVP dailies. The Repubs know they are on borrowed time as soon as they move to mid.

 

There have been times when I actually have considered switching servers but the only other PVP server is slanted the other way with the Repubs outnumbering the Imps. So it is the same situation only reverse faction.

 

When I came back to this game after a long hiatus, I jumped in about 1 AM EST. Went to the Imp station first. Saw about 30 some odd people there. So I jumped over to the Repub station. Want to know how many people were there? 1. Thats right. I was the only person on station. I actually stood there and waited a minute just to see if anybody else popped in. Nobody did.

 

True story.

 

Even during prime time, I can go to the Imps station and see 100+ people there. Go to the Repub station at the same time and I will be lucky to see 30.

 

I said it once I will say it again. Open world pvp is dead in this game. And it probably has been dead for sometime. The only way to revive it is to do cross server open world. Set up a planet specific to open world and let anybody jump in. Odds are the Imps will still vastly outnumber the Repubs but you can control this with queue times. Make the imp times long enough and they might just switch factions just to get in quicker.

[AlrikFassbauer]

World PVP is dead in this game. The servers simply don't have the population to support it anymore. You can do it, but the opposing players you attack likely view you as a griefer than as a true pvp player.

 

In my opinion, the failure lies on Bioware's side : By making the game so that it attracted far more imp faction players than pub faction players from the start.

 

Me, with my "faction favourising by Bioware" conspiracy theory, I'm not at all surprised at reading this.

In my opinion they had put so much more effort in making the imperial faction look & feel interesting. Just take a look at both fleet stations : The imperial one just has style. It's dark, it's murky, and it has style. The republic station just has one main colour : mud brown. As I once put it : "The Republic had advertisements, the Empire has style."

 

Plus, there is an psychological factor as well : Evil is the new good. People LOVE to play evil - especially younger people, I assume. This way they can "vent air", do what they aren't allowed to in RL, bragging around big time with no-one stopping them, and have fun by harassing people. Harassing people has seemingly become some sort of New Sports, if one reads the usual comments on blogs, twitter, no matter where, they're there. So full of hate.

 

Pluzs, internet anonymity lets all contraints, be it moral constraints, ethics, whatever, go loose - especially if you decide to play evil in SWTOR and it's considered as NORMAL for an imperial in that setting !

 

I never played SWG. I often wonder if the imps outnumbered the reps there as well. But - that that setting, reps were the smaller number right from the start.

 

Bioware is so bad in taking people's psychology & behaviour into account ...

[ayiil]

Depends on server, I guess. ToFN you ma get kicked you *** aroynd being 55+ Empire player on Rishi or Yavin easily. As well as opposite.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

In my opinion, the failure lies on Bioware's side : By making the game so that it attracted far more imp faction players than pub faction players from the start.

 

Me, with my "faction favourising by Bioware" conspiracy theory, I'm not at all surprised at reading this.

In my opinion they had put so much more effort in making the imperial faction look & feel interesting. Just take a look at both fleet stations : The imperial one just has style. It's dark, it's murky, and it has style. The republic station just has one main colour : mud brown. As I once put it : "The Republic had advertisements, the Empire has style."

 

Plus, there is an psychological factor as well : Evil is the new good. People LOVE to play evil - especially younger people, I assume. This way they can "vent air", do what they aren't allowed to in RL, bragging around big time with no-one stopping them, and have fun by harassing people. Harassing people has seemingly become some sort of New Sports, if one reads the usual comments on blogs, twitter, no matter where, they're there. So full of hate.

 

Pluzs, internet anonymity lets all contraints, be it moral constraints, ethics, whatever, go loose - especially if you decide to play evil in SWTOR and it's considered as NORMAL for an imperial in that setting !

 

I never played SWG. I often wonder if the imps outnumbered the reps there as well. But - that that setting, reps were the smaller number right from the start.

 

Bioware is so bad in taking people's psychology & behaviour into account ...

 

Most people don't realize you can still play an evil douchebag on the Republic Side... you can still vent that natural anger, just... in a different manner.

[TUXs]

you are wierd if you just pvp in warzones and dont spend all day pvping in open world, some mid guilds wont even consider taking you in if you dont openworld pvp at least 2h a day, warzones are for noobs anywayz

LOL! Who is so pathetic that they let some guild tell them how to play the game?! Are there honestly people this weak and worthless?

[ForceWelder]

In my opinion, the failure lies on Bioware's side : By making the game so that it attracted far more imp faction players than pub faction players from the start.

 

Me, with my "faction favourising by Bioware" conspiracy theory, I'm not at all surprised at reading this.

In my opinion they had put so much more effort in making the imperial faction look & feel interesting. Just take a look at both fleet stations : The imperial one just has style. It's dark, it's murky, and it has style. The republic station just has one main colour : mud brown. As I once put it : "The Republic had advertisements, the Empire has style."

 

Plus, there is an psychological factor as well : Evil is the new good. People LOVE to play evil - especially younger people, I assume. This way they can "vent air", do what they aren't allowed to in RL, bragging around big time with no-one stopping them, and have fun by harassing people. Harassing people has seemingly become some sort of New Sports, if one reads the usual comments on blogs, twitter, no matter where, they're there. So full of hate.

 

Pluzs, internet anonymity lets all contraints, be it moral constraints, ethics, whatever, go loose - especially if you decide to play evil in SWTOR and it's considered as NORMAL for an imperial in that setting !

 

I never played SWG. I often wonder if the imps outnumbered the reps there as well. But - that that setting, reps were the smaller number right from the start.

 

Bioware is so bad in taking people's psychology & behaviour into account ...

 

I do like a good discussion sir.

 

Back in BETA when I was still testing this game I had one concern. It had nothing to do with end game content and everything to do with the faction system. Two faction system simply doesn't work in the long run. WOW has pulled it off over the years but that is only because their population has maintain a high. This game on the other hand lost a huge number of subscriptions within a couple of months of release that they never managed to regain.

 

Three way faction system is just the way to go for PVP. This is the case if we are talking open world or instance event such as the warzones. The cartel faction should have been in game. The BH and smuggler may have worked for the Imps and Repubs but they were more associated with the Cartels. Putting them in with those two factions was a mistake from the beginning. The Repubs should have had the Republican Spy and the Imps should have had the Imperial Stormtrooper. That just leaves you to come up with two Cartel classes specifically to counter the force users in the other two factions. Having such a class might go a long way to preventing FOTM that we see in such strong numbers now.

 

At any rate, I did play SWG back in the day. First MMO I ever played. I left right when Jump to Lightspeed came out. So I missed the whole fiasco that came later. But at any rate, it too had a two faction system but even on the pvp servers there was more of a community. With player cities, it wasn't uncommon for one faction to attack the town by another faction. I literally recall attacking Imp towns one moment and then selling crafted goods to the very Imps I fought to replace what was destroyed in combat. I also remember guilds sponsoring PVP events. They would announce a date and time and the scenario in play and open the doors for anybody to take place. Usually such events were reach a destination or free a player from your faction at a specific location. You just had to chew your way through a huge number of players to get to that person or location. And what did we get out of doing this? Nothing. But we enjoyed it anyway. Do the event, kill some peps, and replace the gear you have to replace anyway when playing. No harm no foul.

 

When everything in game is crafted and quickly wears out, you tend to do away with epic gear. Because to have epic gear means you have to farm the resources constantly to keep it. I was a multi-millionaire. I had warehouses full of epic resources. Hell, everyday I checked the web and did my own planetary scans just to see if any new resources dropped that people would kill for and then I would harvest the hell out of it. All so I could craft items that people from both factions went out of their way to purchase from me. Because I refused to make junk. It was either top gear or not worth my time. My crafter couldn't use a weapon to save his life. But he sure could craft the hell out of some #@#$. And that was the beauty of SWG. You could be friends one minute and killing each other the next and nobody took it seriously.

Edited March 3, 2015 by ForceWelder

[patricklee]

I think many choose pvp servers specifically due to the assumption that the population will provide brisk warzone queues and an enthusiastic pvp community.

 

Should they anticipate OWPVP? Yes.

 

 

Here's the deal though- varying perspectives.

 

Some have the notion that pvp should be competitive in nature. This means that engaging an enemy while they are currently engaged with mobs, etc can be considered "in poor taste", or at the very least, exploiting a cheap opportunity. Stealth specs also provide the means to engage/disengage an opponent if and when they choose. Others will cling together in groups with the intention of pursuing/engaging single players or smaller groups.

 

Some will defend these activities suggesting "its a pvp server, so you should expect it."

 

I'm not suggesting that either perspective is the right one- just observing that not all inhabitants of pvp servers view the potential in the same fashion.

 

 

All I know is that I've seen more OWPVP on Jung Ma over the past 3 months since I was forced to transfer from Deathwind Corridor.

 

And its been a lot of fun.

Edited March 4, 2015 by patricklee

[georgemattson]

One thing I've always wondered in PvP games of all sorts is why people don't play the under-represented side if they really do want a good match. I've seen it over and over; there's always one side that dominates and another side that gets stomped, and nobody every wants to play the stompee.

 

If you truly want a good fight and a challenge, re-roll on the under-represented side. If enough players do that, the PvP population will balance out and you'll have great matches.

 

Otherwise, you're just contributing to the problem.

[AndriusAjax]

Myself and 3 guildies had a great wpvp session on Rishi a few weeks a ago. At least an hour of our 4 vs 5-6 imps and we destroyed them... over and over. On Illum overy the weekend I picked up 2 random dudes and we had 30 minutes of dominance at the pylon dropoff. This is on Pot5. So good times CAN happen but yes, population numbers make it rarer than it should.

[ForceWelder]

Myself and 3 guildies had a great wpvp session on Rishi a few weeks a ago. At least an hour of our 4 vs 5-6 imps and we destroyed them... over and over. On Illum overy the weekend I picked up 2 random dudes and we had 30 minutes of dominance at the pylon dropoff. This is on Pot5. So good times CAN happen but yes, population numbers make it rarer than it should.

 

If on Rishi, the odds are you were up against players who were still leveling. At best they were probably level 57 or 58 and weren't in any pvp gear. If anything they were probably under geared simply wanting to save their basic comms for when they hit 60.

 

If you were taking on 5 - 6 players at a time and winning, there is no way they were on the same calibre level as you and your guildmates. With all of those stuns and other CC in play, they should have been able to destroy you if they were at the same level as you.

[Yojiro]

I remember the early days of this game. Back in the days when PVP consisted of Huttball and Ilum base swapping. But even then the Imps always outnumbered the Repubs and the Repubs never truly held ground long simply because of population issues. These days it is far worse than it was then. I say this as someone who plays mostly on the Repub side currently and the Repubs simply don't have the population numbers.

 

I know I'm going a bit off-topic, but Reps never did. Very few were the servers in which reps outnumbered Imps.

 

I remember Ilum's first day. Across most servers the reports coming in were the same: Imp forces - led by scores of the then FOTM Sorcs - broke through the horribly underpowered Rep Base guards and farmed the republic players at spawn point, forcing many of us to simply log off and leave our mains there... and bringing to light the horrible faction disparity.

 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Yojiro

[AndriusAjax]

If on Rishi, the odds are you were up against players who were still leveling. At best they were probably level 57 or 58 and weren't in any pvp gear. If anything they were probably under geared simply wanting to save their basic comms for when they hit 60.

 

If you were taking on 5 - 6 players at a time and winning, there is no way they were on the same calibre level as you and your guildmates. With all of those stuns and other CC in play, they should have been able to destroy you if they were at the same level as you.

 

No they were all lvl 60... And this wouldn't be the first time we were able to bash multiple heads in. Im not sure what your point is...but MY point is that if you can get 4 decent pvpers together, wpvp can be fun.