What's the status on 12xXP?

[EllieAnne]

Disagree.

 

Strongly.

 

As far as these sorts of demands and the community, there is no consensus. People have posted dozens of ideas and none of them have seen broad approval. Everyone wants to cater the system to their desires, and very few people put any thought into the issues that 12xXP causes. Most don't eve know what those issues are.

 

If the forums let us post polls, I'd predict at least 80% want 12xXP in some form.

Edited March 3, 2015 by EllieAnne

[EllieAnne]

Its never a good idea to take a diminished player base and remove a significant number of the players from that player base as available leveling partners etc. for people who are new to a game. You've got no more certain way of killing your growth of new subs/new players than to make the game even more barren and bereft of people in the low level content.

 

You are so very wrong. 12xXP would actually HELP. I have 16 toons, one for each AC and the lowest is lvl 36. Why in the world would I start another toon just to grind out the side quests/KDY a THIRTEENTH time.

 

Actually I lied, I have 2 toons on an RP server and 4 on a PvP server all less than level 3. I made them because at the time I was interested in a different sort of feel for the game but I can't get motivated to grind out 6 more toons. So there are 6 low level toons not in the game because of those that insist on grinding.

[LadyVix]

Its never a good idea to take a diminished player base and remove a significant number of the players from that player base as available leveling partners etc. for people who are new to a game. You've got no more certain way of killing your growth of new subs/new players than to make the game even more barren and bereft of people in the low level content.

Go run through the lowbie areas now that we have no leveling boosts of this sort. I was on Alderaan a couple of days ago. There were 2 channels, with a total of 6 players. There are few leveling players because experienced players have no incentive to level anymore.

 

12x XP is a request for 'easy mode' that removes players from having to do any of the content at low levels, and thus diminishes the game experience for anyone who does not have the perk.

I won't argue that it's "easy mode," however it was responsible for many experienced players returning to low level areas, populating less crowded planets, and interacting with potential new players.

 

This is an MMO, not a single player game, and it is already woefully easy to level up in any number of ways. The perk is unnecessary and has demonstrated drawbacks. The reason it is desired is purely out of entitlement wishes from a significant portion of the player base who believe that just because they have done something before, they should never have to do it again. They do not admit to or recognize any of the drawbacks. They do not understand that, as the person who is making the proposal they have a burden of proof to demonstrate why their idea has merit and would be beneficial and not detrimental and the argument always comes down to a simple exhibition of selfishness, " I want it, I don't want to have to do side quests, PVP, Space Missions, or any other content, I want to do just class missions and I want 12x XP for doing them and I want it now!"

I'm sorry I don't play the way that you demand that I play. I want to run storyline, not grind useless kill counts. Why is that so damn hard to understand? Why are you so set on people having to grind? Do you think that forcing people to do things they don't want to do will make them more dedicated to SWTOR? It doesn't work that way. People don't stay to grind, they simply more on to other games.

 

The game requires players playing at all levels in order for it to be accessible to new players. If you create a mechanic that allows players to completely skip all the low level content but their solo class missions, you greatly diminish the game experience for every player who still has to level the 'intended' way.

We don't currently enjoy 12x EXP, and the planets are deserted. We can either make the existing player base happy and encourage leveling through 12x EXP to alleviate the problem, or we can pretend that the current system is working well and watch server populations plummet. Which do you prefer?

 

This has nothing to do about 'old folks' saying , 'Back in my day....' but everything to do with that this is a Multiplayer Game with a system for leveling that is predicated on having other players available. This isn't about people who disagree with you wanting to force you to play the game 'Their way' as they aren't they are telling you that you have to play the game the way the game was created/intended and disagreeing with you that your addition is universally beneficial.

No experienced players on lowbie planets, or many experienced players populating them... which do you prefer? Which would be best for the overall health of this game?

 

I could care less how you play the game. You can do pvp only from level 10 onwards, you can run space missions, you can do side quests, or you can stand in one spot and grind the same mobs until they cease to give experience and then move to another fast spawn area and repeat.. I don't care how you play. But I do disagree that a 'fast lane' for leveling that removes players from the pool of available players to play with during the leveling process for anyone who does not have the perk is a good idea. Its an MMO, the entire system is based on having other players of your level range available to play with.

Quite to the contrary, you DO care about how we play the game. You care so much that you type volumes in every 12x thread to ensure that we have no choices except to grind. How is that any different?

 

Single Player games are on that aisle over there.. go buy one.

I'm on it. Enjoy your deserted *** game.

[Kalfear]

Disagree.

 

Strongly.

 

As far as these sorts of demands and the community, there is no consensus. People have posted dozens of ideas and none of them have seen broad approval. Everyone wants to cater the system to their desires, and very few people put any thought into the issues that 12xXP causes. Most don't eve know what those issues are.

 

Very well stated!

 

Big thumbs up

[ImmortalLowlife]

Its never a good idea to take a diminished player base and remove a significant number of the players from that player base as available leveling partners etc. for people who are new to a game. You've got no more certain way of killing your growth of new subs/new players than to make the game even more barren and bereft of people in the low level content.

 

There are ALWAYS players on starter planets doing quest. There are ALWAYS people in gen chat typing L4G (insert heroic here). And there are ALWAYS people willing to help them. Those same people will still be there with a 12XP unlock, and even if THAT specific person is gone...not everyone will want the 12XP unlock.

 

12x XP is a request for 'easy mode' that removes players from having to do any of the content at low levels, and thus diminishes the game experience for anyone who does not have the perk.

 

Your opinion.... My opinion is ""12XP is a request by players who've reached a certain (legacy lvl) or Completed X classes to lvl (50) to now be allowed to play only the parts of the game THEY enjoy."

 

This is an MMO, not a single player game, and it is already woefully easy to level up in any number of ways. The perk is unnecessary and has demonstrated drawbacks. The reason it is desired is purely out of entitlement wishes from a significant portion of the player base who believe that just because they have done something before, they should never have to do it again. They do not admit to or recognize any of the drawbacks. They do not understand that, as the person who is making the proposal they have a burden of proof to demonstrate why their idea has merit and would be beneficial and not detrimental and the argument always comes down to a simple exhibition of selfishness, " I want it, I don't want to have to do side quests, PVP, Space Missions, or any other content, I want to do just class missions and I want 12x XP for doing them and I want it now!"

 

This is mostly "slick dissin" but I'll touch it anyway. The majority of this game can be done solo. You can play from lvl 1-60 and NEVER join a group or guild. I know this is a fact because that's mainly how I play. Now factor in the solo FP's introduced with 3.0 and POW! You've now got a game that's as much (if not more) a single Player RPG as it is an mmo. The rest of that rant is just that...an emotion fueled rant full of third grade name calling and the pot calling the kettle black....

 

The game requires players playing at all levels in order for it to be accessible to new players. If you create a mechanic that allows players to completely skip all the low level content but their solo class missions, you greatly diminish the game experience for every player who still has to level the 'intended' way.

 

See the first thing I wrote.... Now add in "because 12XP was only for a limited time, people were avoiding all group content to take advantage of it. As an unlock, there's no need to rush. Thus people will STILL be available for group content if they so choose."

 

This has nothing to do about 'old folks' saying , 'Back in my day....' but everything to do with that this is a Multiplayer Game with a system for leveling that is predicated on having other players available. This isn't about people who disagree with you wanting to force you to play the game 'Their way' as they aren't they are telling you that you have to play the game the way the game was created/intended and disagreeing with you that your addition is universally beneficial.

 

See the third paragraph I wrote. Notice how you think you wrote a chapter of war & piece, but you're actually just saying the same thing over and over?

 

I could care less how you play the game. You can do pvp only from level 10 onwards, you can run space missions, you can do side quests, or you can stand in one spot and grind the same mobs until they cease to give experience and then move to another fast spawn area and repeat.. I don't care how you play. But I do disagree that a 'fast lane' for leveling that removes players from the pool of available players to play with during the leveling process for anyone who does not have the perk is a good idea. Its an MMO, the entire system is based on having other players of your level range available to play with.

 

Single Player games are on that aisle over there.. go buy one.

 

 

Apparently YOU DO care how I play. And that's what this ENTIRE debate is actually about. THEY (BW) introduced a major XP boost that a "significant number of players" really enjoyed. Those same players are requesting an unlockable version of that boost because it greatly increased THEIR enjoyment of the game. YOU don't want someone else to have an OPTION....YOU want them to "play the game as it is or go play another game". But let's say hypothetically everyone decided to take your advice. They ALL cancel their subs, and STOP playing swtor completely. Well guess what you've just done. You've

"taken a diminished player base and remove a significant number of the players from that player base as available leveling partners etc. for people who are new to a game. You've got no more certain way of killing your growth of new subs/new players than to make the game even more barren and bereft of people"

See how that works both ways?

[Kalfear]

If the forums let us post polls, I'd predict at least 80% want 12xXP in some form.

 

so you want to prove your claim by polling less then 5% of the player base

 

[LadyVix]

so you want to prove your claim by polling less then 5% of the player base

 

 

Either that, or we can just make up our own numbers based on our own biased opinions. Participation in threads like this would seem to indicate that the majority of players do support 12x EXP. Would you care to dispute that? (*considering that less than 5% of players participate in forum discussions)

 

*another BS statistic that nobody can prove.

Edited March 3, 2015 by LadyVix

[XiamaraSimi]

why? so you can power grind through the story line instead of earning your levels? players these days dont care about the game you just want to be max level as fast as possible. just enjoy the game

 

/picardfacepalm

 

I have 17 characters. I have done each "Core story" and can now recite the lines of the planetary quest givers along with them... think of it this way: You buy a book, you read the book, you enjoy the book, you decided you want a NEW book.

 

You buy a new book, then start reading and find out that they copy and pasted 50-75% of the LAST book you read into your NEW book. Then this happens with every single book you read for the rest of your life. Now I like to reread books, but not the same one over and over as soon as i finish it, i will come back to it in a few months when i feel nostalgic for it.

 

Planetary chains are nothing nostalgic when its as i stated before, im reading a book, then opening it back to page one and starting over again... I want something -new- not the exact same thing again...

 

Im not leveling to do endgame content, i can count on one hand how many raids ive done. Nor am I zerging to the end for lolscrubpvp, i enjoy the -class stories- not the stuff ive already seen on my other characters each time they visit that planet.

 

What your essentially doing when someone says they dont want to redo the planetay chain for the nth time is saying "HOW DARE YOU NOT WANT TO REREAD THAT CHAPTER FOR THE 27th TIME SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Perhaps you would enjoy going from 1-60 doing only Black Talon, but I sure wouldnt, and I dont think most others would either.

 

Again, im not trying to "ZERG to endgame". I just want to enjoy the class stories without all the boring arse side crap ive already done 17 times disrupting the flow.

 

"WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA IF YOU GIVE 12XP NO ONE WILL DO FP/HEROICS WITH ME!!!!!11111!!!!"

 

UM, newsflash, i wouldnt be doing them with you anyhow so what difference does it make if i get 12xp?

[Happy_Puppy]

Its never a good idea to take a diminished player base and remove a significant number of the players from that player base as available leveling partners etc. for people who are new to a game. You've got no more certain way of killing your growth of new subs/new players than to make the game even more barren and bereft of people in the low level content.

 

12x XP is a request for 'easy mode' that removes players from having to do any of the content at low levels, and thus diminishes the game experience for anyone who does not have the perk.

 

This is an MMO, not a single player game, and it is already woefully easy to level up in any number of ways. The perk is unnecessary and has demonstrated drawbacks. The reason it is desired is purely out of entitlement wishes from a significant portion of the player base who believe that just because they have done something before, they should never have to do it again. They do not admit to or recognize any of the drawbacks. They do not understand that, as the person who is making the proposal they have a burden of proof to demonstrate why their idea has merit and would be beneficial and not detrimental and the argument always comes down to a simple exhibition of selfishness, " I want it, I don't want to have to do side quests, PVP, Space Missions, or any other content, I want to do just class missions and I want 12x XP for doing them and I want it now!"

 

The game requires players playing at all levels in order for it to be accessible to new players. If you create a mechanic that allows players to completely skip all the low level content but their solo class missions, you greatly diminish the game experience for every player who still has to level the 'intended' way.

 

This has nothing to do about 'old folks' saying , 'Back in my day....' but everything to do with that this is a Multiplayer Game with a system for leveling that is predicated on having other players available. This isn't about people who disagree with you wanting to force you to play the game 'Their way' as they aren't they are telling you that you have to play the game the way the game was created/intended and disagreeing with you that your addition is universally beneficial.

 

I could care less how you play the game. You can do pvp only from level 10 onwards, you can run space missions, you can do side quests, or you can stand in one spot and grind the same mobs until they cease to give experience and then move to another fast spawn area and repeat.. I don't care how you play. But I do disagree that a 'fast lane' for leveling that removes players from the pool of available players to play with during the leveling process for anyone who does not have the perk is a good idea. Its an MMO, the entire system is based on having other players of your level range available to play with.

 

Single Player games are on that aisle over there.. go buy one.

 

this right here.. I have to agree.

 

This is a mmo and part of mmo is the leveling.

 

If all you want is max level to pvp... there are other games that do that. GW2 for one.

The 12x XP just sounds like a way so players can FOTM class's with out having to level them.

[Happy_Puppy]

 

I have 17 characters. I have done each "Core story" and can now recite the lines of the planetary quest givers along with them... think of it this way: You buy a book, you read the book, you enjoy the book, you decided you want a NEW book.

 

 

Have to ask why do you have 17 when there are only 16 possible class's?

 

You are not asking for a "new book" your asking for the chapter titles and the last page of the book...

Also the class story's do not change with sub class's so after playing 1 class each time you have the story arc. so that really means after level 8 class's you have seen all the story arcs.. so no the 12x XP is not for that reason.

 

The bulk of the requests is do to pvp and getting the fotm class to max level the fastest.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Happy_Puppy

[XiamaraSimi]

Have to ask why do you have 17 when there are only 16 possible class's?

 

You are not asking for a "new book" your asking for the chapter titles and the last page of the book...

 

Agent and warrior stories are quite different depending on choices you make. (Especially involving Jaesa & Jadus) Play one char as full dark side, play another as full lightside. Some play one as male, then another as female to see how the stories play out.

 

Also the class story's do not change with sub class's so after playing 1 class each time you have the story arc. so that really means after level 8 class's you have seen all the story arcs.. so no the 12x XP is not for that reason.

 

Each gender has its own unique romance, some classes have two romance options available What you chose to do can make things quite different. We dont all like the same things after all.

Edited March 3, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[EllieAnne]

so you want to prove your claim by polling less then 5% of the player base

 

 

About 1 million active players per month so let's use your 5% that you pulled out of your *****.

n=50,000; p=.8; q=.2

s = 0.001789

 

95% confidence level = 0.8 +/- 0.011314.

So if 5% of the users respond and 80% of them say to bring back 12xXP, there is a 97.5% probability that more than 79.64% of ALL users want 12xXP.

 

I'm good with that. When are you going to set up the poll?

[Suromir]

Either that, or we can just make up our own numbers based on our own biased opinions. Participation in threads like this would seem to indicate that the majority of players do support 12x EXP. Would you care to dispute that? (*considering that less than 5% of players participate in forum discussions)

 

*another BS statistic that nobody can prove.

 

except BioWare themselves...now I will give you this...they NEVER gave an actual percentage (that I've seen) but it's a KNOWN FACT that a very very VERY miniscule % of players actually post on the forums...now do some math...I know you can...of that very very VERY miniscule % not all of them would bother with the poll...and of that very very very very very very VERY small % that does...not ALL of them would want 12x

 

now...I do believe you're right...I think the MAJORITY of players want 12x...but please with your last sentence..it only shows ignorance (as in lack of knowledge) on YOUR part.

[Suromir]

About 1 million active players per month so let's use your 5% that you pulled out of your *****.

n=50,000; p=.8; q=.2

s = 0.001789

 

95% confidence level = 0.8 +/- 0.011314.

So if 5% of the users respond and 80% of them say to bring back 12xXP, there is a 97.5% probability that more than 79.64% of ALL users want 12xXP.

 

I'm good with that. When are you going to set up the poll?

 

please tell me you're not into researching and testing of ANY nature...you CANNOt get accurate information based off that low of a number...any 8th grader with any interest in science knows that

[EllieAnne]

please tell me you're not into researching and testing of ANY nature...you CANNOt get accurate information based off that low of a number...any 8th grader with any interest in science knows that

 

Really? How large of a sample do you need? Do you have any clue what you are talking about or are you like the 8th graders that only know "Big n good! Small n bad!"

 

If you knew anything about statistics, you would know that for confidence intervals take into account low n's when calculating the standard deviation. So how about getting your facts from real statisticians.

The mathematics of probability proves the size of the population is irrelevant unless the size of the sample exceeds a few percent of the total population you are examining. This means that a sample of 500 people is equally useful in examining the opinions of a state of 15,000,000 as it would a city of 100,000.

Let's say we have a new process we want to try. We plan to run the new process and sample the output for yield (good/bad). Our current process has been yielding 65% (p=.65, q=.35). We decide that we want the estimate of the new process yield to be accurate to within δ = .10 at 95% confidence (α = .05, zα = -2). Using the formula above we get a sample size estimate of n=91. Thus, if we draw 91 random parts from the output of the new process and estimate the yield, then we are 95% sure the yield estimate is within .10 of the true process yield.

Hmmmmm... n=91. That's a lot less than 50000 isn't it but it seems to work.

Or go to http://www.nss.gov.au/nss/home.nsf/pages/Sample+size+calculator and put in the same numbers I used. If you know how to read statistics you would see my results are accurate.

Or maybe this is more of your speed http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-determine-the-minimum-size-needed-for-a-sta.html

from that page and we assume we want to know with 95% confidence that the true number of users wanting 12xXP lies between 75% and 85% i.e. MoE is 0.05. We know the standard deviation of the population S can be estimated from the standard deviation of the mean s by S = s/sqrt(n) [look up standard error]. The standard deviation of a proportional testing sample is sqrt(pq) {oh so you know q = 1-p} making the population standard deviation S = sqrt(pq/n). Hmmmmm ... sounds circular to use n to calculate n. Let's assume the worst possible scenario and S = sqrt(pq). With p=0.8 this give S=0.4

So sample size at a minimum needs to be (1.96 x 0.4 / 0.05)^2

This gives a minimal sample size of 246.

 

So there's my cite. Why don't YOU come up with the minimal sample size needed along with cite.

Or make it easy on yourself and S T F U since clearly you know nothing about stats or just want to keep believing girls can't know what they're talking about with number-things.

[OddballEasyEight]

Either that, or we can just make up our own numbers based on our own biased opinions. Participation in threads like this would seem to indicate that the majority of players do support 12x EXP. Would you care to dispute that? (*considering that less than 5% of players participate in forum discussions)

 

*another BS statistic that nobody can prove.

 

Actually, the only thing you need to prove that 12xp was popular is the fact that servers were much busier during that time than they usually are.

Starter planets had at least double the instances that they usually do during that time on my server.

Mid-level planets actually had a large population as opposed to the desolate wasteland that they usually are.

[OddballEasyEight]

please tell me you're not into researching and testing of ANY nature...you CANNOt get accurate information based off that low of a number...any 8th grader with any interest in science knows that

 

Population of the USA = ca. 319.000.000 people.

So if you are researching and testing, you'd need a sample larger than 5%?

That's a sample larger than 15.950.000 people.

Wow... researching and testing in the US must take FOREVER to do...

[CloudCastle]

Today I finished the knight story for a second time. I leveled him during 12x, stopped doing class quests at 47 and then took him to Makeb until he hit 55. Because of that, I was able to go back at my leisure and continue doing just class quests (Voss and Corellia) even long after 12x had ended. I can't tell you how much fun I have had enjoying the class stories by themselves with no distractions, nothing to break up the story or make me forget what was happening. The story was so much more immediate and compelling, and I was able to pick up on nuances I had missed the first time around.

 

When I finished, I thought. "Man, that was awesome. I could totally do that again with a 3rd character!"

 

Oh wait. I remember now. I can't. Because that ability doesn't exist. All my excitement about creating a new character ended.

 

Players have been asking for the ability to level using just class story missions long, long before 12x was ever implemented. I don't think it's any exaggeration to say that players have been asking for this for years. 12x shows me that the devs are capable of giving us that, have worked out the means to do it, and heck, they have even tested it, so they know how popular it was! I recall reading one of the BW people saying something about how much more popular the event was than they ever expected. The desire is there. BW can do it. What is taking them so long?

[SelinaH]

About 1 million active players per month so let's use your 5% that you pulled out of your *****.

n=50,000; p=.8; q=.2

s = 0.001789

 

95% confidence level = 0.8 +/- 0.011314.

So if 5% of the users respond and 80% of them say to bring back 12xXP, there is a 97.5% probability that more than 79.64% of ALL users want 12xXP.

 

I'm good with that. When are you going to set up the poll?

Of course, you're also assuming that forum posters are a representative sample of the player base as a whole. I think it's pretty clear that we're not.

[OddballEasyEight]

Of course, you're also assuming that forum posters are a representative sample of the player base as a whole. I think it's pretty clear that we're not.

 

But how would you know that we are not a representative sample of the playerbase?

 

Do you have anything that suggests the opposite?

[Papazmurf]

We should just copy and paste since people don't know what dev tracker is. It's far too complicated to find.

 

 

"Putting 12x as a Legacy perk is definitely one of the options we discussed, among many. I believe that is what we had talked about in the past, (on a stream or at a cantina) that it was one of the possible options. As far as I know, it is not currently planned to implement that as a Legacy perk at this time.

 

-eric"

 

Side note, I do find it rather comical that Bioware does communicate with us, yet we ignore it, and then say hey they aren't communicating! Slot machine? Addressed at a cantina event, transcript passed along to us, but to some they haven't said anything about that yet. 12xp? Dev tracker, but nope haven't said a word. PvP ranked abusers? Never a peep.

 

Let's be real, people want a developer sticky or developer reply to the discussions in the general forums. That's where most people go for information.

[EnkiduNineEight]

You are making a suggestion to change the rules of the game. People who disagree with the need to change the rules are not telling you to 'play the game their way' they are telling you the game already plays a certain way and you need to justify your desire to change the rules.

 

You have a burden of proof.

 

Simply stating you really want it because that's how you want to play, is not enough of a justification to make the change.

 

As this is a multiplayer game your desires do affect other players.

 

I've already played Monopoly hundreds of times, I am sort of tired of having to do the whole dice rolling thing. I want to start with 12x cash and Boardwalk and park place because I shouldn't have to actually obtain them because I've already done it.

 

I've converted a pawn to a Queen through advancement many times before. I shouldn't have to continue doing it because I've already experienced it so just let me start with 12x Queens.

 

Etc.

 

The nature of your argument is that anyone who disagrees with you wants to control how you play the game and they don't. They are instead advocating that the rules not be changed to accommodate you for purely selfish/'entitlement complex' reasons.

 

The rules and systems were created by BioWare when they made this an MMO.

 

You need to _justify_ that the change you want is going to be beneficial. Short term activity when 12x was a perk for pre-buying an expansion is not a true demonstration of the affect this could have on the game if it were a long term/unlockable/whatever benefit.

 

So do your due diligence and justify how this will be beneficial to the game as a whole, how it will benefit even those players who don't meet the criteria you arbitrarily set for who gets the 12x XP and meet your burden of proof. You want the change, justify it.

 

And 'I just don't want to do stuff I've done before' is not adequate justification. Even in single player RPG's you still have to go through the leveling process to get to the end game unless you cheat. Its part of the essential mechanic of pretty much every RPG out there. Progression measured by inputted time.

 

You're requesting that you be granted a special bonus so you have to put less time into the process.

 

This requires significant justification before implementation.

 

Justify it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Redbullsauri]

12 x XP should be a permanent benefit for subs.

 

Agreed! Or at the least put it on the Cartel Market for purchase.

[SelinaH]

But how would you know that we are not a representative sample of the playerbase?

 

Do you have anything that suggests the opposite?

If nothing else, the fact that only subscribers have posting privileges. That means that F2P and Preferred players are not represented at all (barring the occasional forum permissions bug).

[OddballEasyEight]

If nothing else, the fact that only subscribers have posting privileges. That means that F2P and Preferred players are not represented at all (barring the occasional forum permissions bug).

 

And you believe that F2P players would be opposed to a 12x XP boost???

 

(Besides, F2P players hardly factor in to decision making since they contribute very little to the income of BW)

Edited March 4, 2015 by OddballEasyEight