OlderSeaDog Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Pre 3.0 my DPS was top rated in Madness spec now it is so bad My guild will not even let me do HM content with them. Yes they are right my Sniper in 186 gear does better DPS then my sorcerer in 198 gear. So no Ops for my Sorc. Why Did you kill the Sorc so very much in 3.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtrz Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Sorc is still very useful in HM ops, but in lightning. Madness became one of the weakest specs in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juerch Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Madness is still great in PvP with deathfield spreading dot's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Sorc is still very useful in HM ops, but in lightning. Madness became one of the weakest specs in game. This is true, but a great Madness Sorc will still carry their weight at least. I think what's more likely is OP is expecting hard mode on this tier to be like it was pre 3.0, whereas the new hard modes are more similar to the old nightmare modes in terms of difficulty. So to OP, if you weren't raiding nightmare with your guild pre 3.0, there is a good chance you do not do enough DPS to carry your weight in hard mode on this tier, especially being Madness spec. Swapping to Lightning can help you make up some of that, but no guarantees it will be enough, and Lightning is now next on the chopping block for nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Only annoying thing with sorc is the relative squishyness. Otherwise I am enjoying it on HMs quite a bit. It's not PT or Merc damage wise, but good enough. Yes they are right my Sniper in 186 gear does better DPS then my sorcerer in 198 gear. Virulence Sniper might have the benefit in fights with serious multidotting possibilities but otherwise lightning sorc is at least equal in dealing damage. Edited February 27, 2015 by Ruskaeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeSaber Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Pre 3.0 my DPS was top rated in Madness spec now it is so bad My guild will not even let me do HM content with them. Yes they are right my Sniper in 186 gear does better DPS then my sorcerer in 198 gear. So no Ops for my Sorc. Why Did you kill the Sorc so very much in 3.0? If you are talking about madness its understandable. I can parse on Madness 4,4k, but on Lightning its 5k. Sorcerer is one of the best dps in my opinion even when it comes to single target. When I raid on my sorc in 95% cases on all bosses im first as dps and no im not trying to boost my dps by using force storm on the adds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladnar Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They won't be all that keen on your sorcs healing either, can you bring your Merc or your ops at least LOL depends if you want to crit heal 10.5k now and again or 16k very regular and yes 186 gear will heal in merc better than 192/198 sorcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheGeek Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I'm guessing your sorc is all 198 comm gear by the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The title sounds an opening to a roast or checking contest. Your Sorc is so poor that he rolls need on comm gear to pay for repairs!! Ooooooooooh Yo PT tank is so stupid that he opens with taunt on a boss. Yo Sniper is so ugly that wearing the new cybernetic gear makes him better looking. Petition for SWTOR Burn fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They won't be all that keen on your sorcs healing either, can you bring your Merc or your ops at least LOL depends if you want to crit heal 10.5k now and again or 16k very regular and yes 186 gear will heal in merc better than 192/198 sorcs Total BS, people are wanting a BH healer because it is probably the easiest class to play, both as dps and heals. Any sorcerer that actually knows his healing rotations can benefit a HM group just as much, if not more then a BH healer. just like the BS about melee dps in the new OPs. If you know your rotations and how to actually stay out of stupid, then you can do major dps and benefit the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Sorcs are great healers. I think the pecking order now is merc > sorc > operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieGhostDie Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Sorcs are great healers. I think the pecking order now is merc > sorc > operative. Did someone say pecking order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Sorcs are great healers. I think the pecking order now is merc > sorc > operative. Not really. See, Sorc has similar healing "profile" as Merc but is weaker. Not much but it is lower. Operative does less tank heals but blows the other two classes away for raid healing. So ideally for 8M you want 1 Merc healer (focuses on the tanks) and 1 Op healer (who covers the AoE healing). Obviously it depends on the fight, but on say Underlurker HM an Op will just do massively more healing. The most I've heard of is an Op parsing 14k HPS there. That said, Sorc heals is not bad also in PvE and actually best for PvP. Edited February 27, 2015 by MiaowZedong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Not really. See, Sorc has similar healing "profile" as Merc but is weaker. Not much but it is lower. Operative does less tank heals but blows the other two classes away for raid healing. So ideally for 8M you want 1 Merc healer (focuses on the tanks) and 1 Op healer (who covers the AoE healing). Obviously it depends on the fight, but on say Underlurker HM an Op will just do massively more healing. The most I've heard of is an Op parsing 14k HPS there. That said, Sorc heals is not bad also in PvE and actually best for PvP. Yeah I guess that is why I had to keep picking up heals with my sorcerer from the BHs group in the last 3 OPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saenth Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Not really. See, Sorc has similar healing "profile" as Merc but is weaker. Not much but it is lower. Operative does less tank heals but blows the other two classes away for raid healing. So ideally for 8M you want 1 Merc healer (focuses on the tanks) and 1 Op healer (who covers the AoE healing). Obviously it depends on the fight, but on say Underlurker HM an Op will just do massively more healing. The most I've heard of is an Op parsing 14k HPS there. That said, Sorc heals is not bad also in PvE and actually best for PvP. However Sorcerer bubble is indispensable in certain situations where mitigation beats healing, such as Coratanni (all phases not just mouse droids) and Revan floor 3. Also Roaming Mend is the best multi-target smart heal in the game and has "situational burst". I agree in general that Merc has a slightly stronger healing profile, but it's mostly due to Healing Scan and Progressive Scan hitting like a truck while Kolto Shells tick. If Healing Scan was a bit weaker, it would be pretty even. Operative healers have the highest raw HPS capacity, especially when the raid is stacked up. As others note, they can get insane numbers on fights like Walkers and Underlurker. In practice, however, this is not that necessary for most fights, and Operatives have the worst burst heals at the end of the day. I like them in 3.0 but the other two healers have really come into their own. Also, bring Operatives for stealth rezzes. This is particularly good on Blaster/Master, Coratanni, and Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 In older OPs you should have no problems at all with a Sorc. Did Karagga NIM in a group with my Sage recently. I won't do that with the new OPs, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 In older OPs you should have no problems at all with a Sorc. Did Karagga NIM in a group with my Sage recently. I won't do that with the new OPs, though. Again another misstatement. I have been healing all the new OPs with my sorcerer, the 2nd healer a BH. The thing people dont realize, is raw healing numbers overall, are not what makes a good healer. I have out healed both BH and operativr in mostly 186 augment gear while getting my OPs gear ( the RNG gods hate me). The number difference isnt that much that it actually makes any difference. It is the healers skills, and knowledge of his toon that makes a good healer. Most people dont even understand what their skills do, they are just Dulfy lemmings, that go and copy whatever is there, witn no understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardusnyc Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Pre 3.0 my DPS was top rated in Madness spec now it is so bad My guild will not even let me do HM content with them. Yes they are right my Sniper in 186 gear does better DPS then my sorcerer in 198 gear. So no Ops for my Sorc. Why Did you kill the Sorc so very much in 3.0? This thread will help get your dps back. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=799105 Edited March 1, 2015 by Ardusnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 With the changes for the Sorc on PTS it doesn't look promising. Also Madness needs a serious boast as lightening is a burst spec that realies heavily on crit and how much force storm you can get in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChroniKill Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Madness certainly needs some love, but sages and sorcs are far from unplayable in their current (or PTS) iteration. Just learn lightning/TK until madness/balance gets a buff. I run a sage in a HM ops group and don't struggle to keep up with anyone else and am often highest. Some fights (like Torque) absolutely love sages with all the AoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Again another misstatement. I have been healing all the new OPs with my sorcerer, the 2nd healer a BH. The thing people dont realize, is raw healing numbers overall, are not what makes a good healer. I have out healed both BH and operativr in mostly 186 augment gear while getting my OPs gear ( the RNG gods hate me). The number difference isnt that much that it actually makes any difference. It is the healers skills, and knowledge of his toon that makes a good healer. Most people dont even understand what their skills do, they are just Dulfy lemmings, that go and copy whatever is there, witn no understanding. Sorry, I should have mentioned that my Sage is DD for several months now. Even before the FOTM wave came in. It's so much more fun today for me - I played a healer before that - that I hardly ever want to go back again. Healing just felt too much "unfun" to me. Especially in PvP, where I became the very first target no matter what. That's why I don't play PvP with my Sage anymore. Even although he is a DD now. Edited March 2, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Sorry, I should have mentioned that my Sage is DD for several months now. Even before the FOTM wave came in. It's so much more fun today for me - I played a healer before that - that I hardly ever want to go back again. Healing just felt too much "unfun" to me. Especially in PvP, where I became the very first target no matter what. That's why I don't play PvP with my Sage anymore. Even although he is a DD now. See I am strictly PVE, so PVP is a non-issue for me. Honestly I like the constant action of a sorcerer healer. It reminds me of the days playing a bard in EQ. You have to be on top of your game all the time. I mean DPS is cool, but after a while I find it boring. Sitting their just shooting something over and over again. I would rather have the challenge of tanking or healing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Madness certainly needs some love, but sages and sorcs are far from unplayable in their current (or PTS) iteration. Just learn lightning/TK until madness/balance gets a buff. I run a sage in a HM ops group and don't struggle to keep up with anyone else and am often highest. Some fights (like Torque) absolutely love sages with all the AoE. On Torque, great. However, all that sweet aoe and number padding is 100% useless in actual DPS checks of this hm tier. When nightmares come, I am fairly certain BW is tuning those to be just great for 2 x IO mercs and 2 x PTs. Oh and it's not like meaning survivability gets reduced in NiM tier. Edited March 3, 2015 by Ruskaeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You have to be on top of your game all the time. I do know. I levelled as a Healer until the mid-30s or so. Or early 40. But ... It fas so far away from the "real action". To me it was as if "they do the work and are respected for that, but I get nothing." That's highly subjective, I do know. My point of view changed a lot when I tried out my very first tank char. He's still in his 20s. I taught me how much dependent tanks really are from healers. As a casual player - I call myself a "story player" - I didn't get enough expertise in PvE healing as well, because I never constantly joined groups. Cleaning DOTs ? Wasn't that necessary for most of the time. At least I thought so. To me, keeping Qysen alive in fights was rather a chore than fun. Sure, the fight got an ending one day, but it still wasn't exactly my definition of "fun". As a healer, I fels so weak and so much dependent on others. As I prefer "freelancing" play in a game, I had my problems with that. Some parts of that "fun" came back so much later when I saw that cool end-level healing animation. I wished they had built them in so much earlier ! That's my personal story. Sorry if it took too long for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 On Torque, great. However, all that sweet aoe and number padding is 100% useless in actual DPS checks of this hm tier. When nightmares come, I am fairly certain BW is tuning those to be just great for 2 x IO mercs and 2 x PTs. Oh and it's not like meaning survivability gets reduced in NiM tier. I find some of this thread odd as on HM Sword Squadron our groups Lightning spec Sorcerer consistently pulls 3600-3900 DPS. Far from useless. 192/198 geared. With the changes in 3.0 you may need to learn a new spec. Same as our Sniper who has had to learn Virulence because Marksman is weak on that fight (well, other fights as well..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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