Fastest way to make millions of credits / get guild ship components

[DarthZak]

Honestly, if they had responded exactly as you laid out... you still wouldn't be happy... It would have been an unsub thread because they didn't come and return your stuff because "they didn't do anything".

 

And sorry, I don't see this as "serious"... if the guilds in question didn't know there were guild bank raiders since the inception of a guild bank... well... I don't know what to say other than you were being short sighted.. if you had no mechanism for promoting alts... well again, you were being shortsighted. That's why suggestions given in this and other threads were made.... as how to prevent such things...

 

I felt for the OP, and other other threads OP... now... not so much.

 

No of course I wouldnt entirely happy with the result, ideally Id have the stuff returned and the ******e banned but Im also not an idiot and I can accept that BW would put the blame on us, which isnt that unfair. The answer would however be satisfactory and thats all Im asking.

 

Who said they didnt know there were raiders? And yes, we're smart enough to combat these incidents in the future but again, thats not the entire issue.

[FerkWork]

While what happened was regrettable and does suck to happen and I am in no way defending people who do it, there's nothing sastifactory that BW can do. While many have brought up the reasons so far I would like to point out that just like how people can abuse the GB system it can also be vice versa with false accusations of theft by others particularly if you left the guild. I would like to share a story:

The former guild I was in got a interim GM who I viewed as more competent and I started a second raid group. To equip them I started to make stims/adrenals/media for only the those raiders. I told the interim if the old one came back I would leave and that those items were still my property having spent my matts on it. He agreed. 2 months later he leaves with his group and old GM comes back. So I take back all those items as they were my property and only there conditionally. Only those items were taken. I didn't tell the new GM as it was my stuff. For the next few days I get harassing whispers (with some homophobic slurs thrown in) in gen chat that I was a stealer which were quickly shut down pointing out the fact. Few still hate my guts and take it out in PvP matches. Still while bank raiders our bad there is no way any automated system can be implemented without being abused to settle old grudges unless it was a costly case by case basis.

Just my 2cents

[Drockter]

No of course I wouldnt entirely happy with the result, ideally Id have the stuff returned and the ******e banned but Im also not an idiot and I can accept that BW would put the blame on us, which isnt that unfair. The answer would however be satisfactory and thats all Im asking.

 

Who said they didnt know there were raiders? And yes, we're smart enough to combat these incidents in the future but again, thats not the entire issue.

 

Re-read EasyWin's post... he isn't quitting because of the response he received... he's quitting because he isn't satisfied with their action.

 

Here are the pertinent posts;

 

Scam your way into a guild bank and loot all of their rare mats. It's ok, nothing will be done.

 

TL;DR: Cancelled sub that was active since launch since BioWare doesn't seem to care about people impersonating others to get months worth of stuff in an afternoon

 

He is unhapy becuase of the lack of action taken against the player (which BW wouldn't tell him either way...

 

More information can be found in the Guild Bank Scam thread in this same forum. The two tickets submitted to Customer Service were returned with form letters basically saying "Too bad, so sad". Then they have the gall to add at the end of the response form that Customer Service is their specialty. Saying it doesn't make it so, that has to be earned.

 

He paraphrases the answer he got as "too bad, so sad" which (to me, means they did respond and indicated that there was nothing they could/would do because the issue was related to the guild set-up.

 

If somehow, someone in Customer Service wants to find me and discuss this further, they can backtrack all of this anyway. Start with the scammer, then let me know how you want to work this out from there. Stercus'accidit is my main on the Shadowlands server.

 

Here he specifically states that he wants some action with the scammer, and then for CS to discuss how to "work it out" with him. So he wants restoration of the goods lost.

 

Seriously... you are arguing that its the lack of customer service... well... again, to me you are equating CSR's responsibility to make up for your failure to protect your guilds assets.

 

Again... at one time I felt for you guys... now, not so much.

[DarthZak]

Re-read EasyWin's post... he isn't quitting because of the response he received... he's quitting because he isn't satisfied with their action.

 

Here are the pertinent posts;

 

 

 

He is unhapy becuase of the lack of action taken against the player (which BW wouldn't tell him either way...

 

 

 

He paraphrases the answer he got as "too bad, so sad" which (to me, means they did respond and indicated that there was nothing they could/would do because the issue was related to the guild set-up.

 

 

 

Here he specifically states that he wants some action with the scammer, and then for CS to discuss how to "work it out" with him. So he wants restoration of the goods lost.

 

Seriously... you are arguing that its the lack of customer service... well... again, to me you are equating CSR's responsibility to make up for your failure to protect your guilds assets.

 

Again... at one time I felt for you guys... now, not so much.

 

I cant and wont talk for another player so what I said pertains to me and me alone.

 

And I can assure you, they didnt respond anything close to saying they cant/wont act. They skipped the subject entirely and linked a few knowledge-base articles that were distantly related.

 

You are missing the point entirely here, you fail to understand that people have a desire and a reality. My desire is that CS returns the items, my understanding is that they cant or wont. Maybe you cant keep personal and professional separated but I can. So no, I wont be happy with no action taken. Its my desire that the ******e gets banned. My realistic view is that they cant or wont help us. Either way, their response is just bad service since it didnt address the matter whatsoever, neither positively or negatively

[DarthZak]

While what happened was regrettable and does suck to happen and I am in no way defending people who do it, there's nothing sastifactory that BW can do. While many have brought up the reasons so far I would like to point out that just like how people can abuse the GB system it can also be vice versa with false accusations of theft by others particularly if you left the guild. I would like to share a story:

The former guild I was in got a interim GM who I viewed as more competent and I started a second raid group. To equip them I started to make stims/adrenals/media for only the those raiders. I told the interim if the old one came back I would leave and that those items were still my property having spent my matts on it. He agreed. 2 months later he leaves with his group and old GM comes back. So I take back all those items as they were my property and only there conditionally. Only those items were taken. I didn't tell the new GM as it was my stuff. For the next few days I get harassing whispers (with some homophobic slurs thrown in) in gen chat that I was a stealer which were quickly shut down pointing out the fact. Few still hate my guts and take it out in PvP matches. Still while bank raiders our bad there is no way any automated system can be implemented without being abused to settle old grudges unless it was a costly case by case basis.

Just my 2cents

 

Yeah I get what you mean, youre saying its pretty much on good faith which is mostly is. Except BW does have logs of both conversations, transactions and whatnot so they can in fact track it. Whether theyre obliged or not is another matter, Im simply discussing the possibilities

[Thoronmir]

I cant and wont talk for another player so what I said pertains to me and me alone.

 

And I can assure you, they didnt respond anything close to saying they cant/wont act. They skipped the subject entirely and linked a few knowledge-base articles that were distantly related.

 

You are missing the point entirely here, you fail to understand that people have a desire and a reality. My desire is that CS returns the items, my understanding is that they cant or wont. Maybe you cant keep personal and professional separated but I can. So no, I wont be happy with no action taken. Its my desire that the ******e gets banned. My realistic view is that they cant or wont help us. Either way, their response is just bad service since it didnt address the matter whatsoever, neither positively or negatively

CS is not going to discuss punishment of the thief with you. And because this "scam" scenario is subject to manipulation (not saying this was an inside job, but a similar situation might be), I would never expect EA/BW to replace what was taken. Aside from (possibly) investigating to identify the culprit account (which you would never know), I would not expect EA/BW to take any action, other than sending me a canned reply. You're right: I don't understand what manner of rational response from CS would have satisfied you.

 

Someone quit SWOR because CS did not give them a comforting hug in their time of distress? Okay ... I've heard worse reasons for quitting an MMO.

[DarthZak]

CS is not going to discuss punishment of the thief with you. And because this "scam" scenario is subject to manipulation (not saying this was an inside job, but a similar situation might be), I would never expect EA/BW to replace what was taken. Aside from (possibly) investigating to identify the culprit account (which you would never know), I would not expect EA/BW to take any action, other than sending me a canned reply. You're right: I don't understand what manner of rational response from CS would have satisfied you.

 

Someone quit SWOR because CS did not give them a comforting hug in their time of distress? Okay ... I've heard worse reasons for quitting an MMO.

 

Actually they have a scripted reply for when they investigate an issue, something along the lines of "Thank you for the report, we'll investigate further blablabla. We wont tell you anything about the investigation etcetc"

And while that reply sucks balls, I also understand it and it would indicate something is being done about the incident.

 

Its a lack of effort and I take professional offence to it

[branmakmuffin]

CS is not going to discuss punishment of the thief with you. And because this "scam" scenario is subject to manipulation (not saying this was an inside job, but a similar situation might be), I would never expect EA/BW to replace what was taken. Aside from (possibly) investigating to identify the culprit account (which you would never know), I would not expect EA/BW to take any action, other than sending me a canned reply. You're right: I don't understand what manner of rational response from CS would have satisfied you

The possibility of an inside job is one reason they won't do anything to "fix" this "problem." Just imagine, a GM creates a second account, scams his guild with that account, gets all the stuff, claims on his main account that he was scammed, gets stuff replaced by the game folks. If there are safe guards in the game to make sure something like that cannot easily happen, I'd like to know what they are.

[Banthabreeder]

Truly sorry this happened to you and your guild. I am glad you posted this in the forums because now I can go back to my own Guild Leader and have a discussion with him about our own security and hopefully something like this never happens to our guild.

 

Peace be with you

[EazyWin]

I would like to clear up a few things.

 

One, I did not expect my OP to crate a legion of random internet people clamoring for the stuff taken to be returned. The intent of the initial post was to inform, not persuade. I had (and still have) a sliver of hope that Bioware will see it and take actual action, but the odds of that seem similar to navigating an asteroid field.

 

Two, I was not the officer that mistakenly gave the rights to the scammer. The guild has a grand total of three people not counting the GM that can raise someone to the rank this person was given. All three people have been in the guild since launch, and have thus far proven themselves to be stable, relatively normal individuals.

 

Three, there are a range of issues with this situation, and the ones I take offense to are different than the GM and Elycia do. My biggest issue is that Bioware has demonstrated that they can track this activity, and they have the power to fix it, yet nothing will likely be done because it would take away time from reskinning CM armors and speeders. Why even bother having a Customer Service department if you're only going to take care of the minor issues?

 

Fourth, it is BioWare's policy to not discuss actions being taken against another account. I get that. It was also Bioware's policy not to make balance changes outside of major patches, until they did. It was part of their policy not to discuss exploits, until they did. I don't even particularly care WHO the scammer is, as long as they know who it is and that actions are being taken against them. Justice must be seen to be done effectively.

 

Fifth, I have mentioned several times that the officer who gave the person access to the GB made a mistake, a huge mistake to some of you. But my point with the mistake is that it is different than simply over-promoting a blatantly new person. The scammer is the one with the majority of fault here, for impersonating the GM.

 

I would like to say thank you to those who have expressed sympathy, whether or not you agreed with my reasoning.

[DOHboy]

I would like to clear up a few things.

 

One, I did not expect my OP to crate a legion of random internet people clamoring for the stuff taken to be returned.

Two, I was not the officer that mistakenly gave the rights to the scammer.

Three, My biggest issue is that Bioware has demonstrated that they can track this activity, and they have the power to fix it, yet nothing will likely be done because it would take away time from reskinning CM armors and speeders.

Fourth, it is BioWare's policy to not discuss actions being taken against another account.

Fifth, The scammer is the one with the majority of fault here, for impersonating the GM.

I would like to say thank you to those who have expressed sympathy, whether or not you agreed with my reasoning.

 

so, someone made a mistake, you want someone else to fix it, even though doing so is virtually impossible.

 

"scammer" takes lots of mats and sells them on GTN to people. Should bioware just give you all the mats? take the mats from people that bought them not knowing they were stolen? If people used those mats and sold the crafted items should they take those items from the people who bought said item made from said mats bought from your scammer from your guild?

 

"scammer" takes the 8 revans masks you had and sold them on the GTN to 8 different people should bioware just give you 8 new masks? take the 8 masks from those 8 people and refund them their credits? Scammer takes credits from 8 masks and buys bunch of mats/armor/mounts and thus does not have the full amount of credits in his account? how do they make it right in your eyes? Just give you the stuff and let those who got it keep it?

 

You want it back, they can't take it from others without having LOADs of other complaints "hey I bought this item and you took it away /unsub, bioware is just stealing from us now"

 

You want them to simply give it to you, and if it WAS an inside job, how do they punish the person since they can't tell you who it was, and they can't simply give it back since they don't know if it was orchestrated to get multiple items for free from CS.

 

It happened, it sucks, you were not the first, you wont be the last, but Bioware is not to blame, and they are not the ones to "fix" anything since nothing is "broken".

 

sorry and have a good day

[Bachannal]

I agree with most of this, and I am aware that there are those who would actually try to pull a stunt like this, and this is why we can't have nice things. BUT... isn't that what customer service is supposed to be for? They really should have a bunch of people for things just like this. That's why it is called Customer Service. If you bring your car to a shop for some work and they go nah, it would take too much work, would you keep bringing your car there? I realize that example is imperfect but keeping a skeleton crew around to only fix minor issues and let the rest atrophy is not Customer Service. It's business to be sure but I'll just take my business somewhere else.

 

You're assuming the CS team has access to the tables that contain all player info and that they are versed enough to be running queries against the database to see all of that relational information between toons and their gear, etc. As someone who works in CS in the Enterprise sector, this is an incredibly rare thing to ever happen. Normally CS would have to escalate a request like that to engineering to have them sift the data.

 

Bottom line - your Guild officers need some training in dealing with scams.

[Heat-Wave]

You're assuming the CS team has access to the tables that contain all player info and that they are versed enough to be running queries against the database to see all of that relational information between toons and their gear, etc. As someone who works in CS in the Enterprise sector, this is an incredibly rare thing to ever happen. Normally CS would have to escalate a request like that to engineering to have them sift the data.

 

Bottom line - your Guild officers need some training in dealing with scams.

 

An interesting thought... what if the player was willing to pay for the time to do that? (since it isn't free)

 

OP, if customer service came back to you and said, "we can do that research and restore the items, but there will be a $500 fee attached to that", would you then be happy?

 

Real people would have to do real work to do what you want, and those people have to be paid. 3 hours of a developer's time could be $500 pretty quickly.

[EazyWin]

so, someone made a mistake, you want someone else to fix it, even though doing so is virtually impossible.

 

"scammer" takes lots of mats and sells them on GTN to people. Should bioware just give you all the mats? take the mats from people that bought them not knowing they were stolen? If people used those mats and sold the crafted items should they take those items from the people who bought said item made from said mats bought from your scammer from your guild?

 

"scammer" takes the 8 revans masks you had and sold them on the GTN to 8 different people should bioware just give you 8 new masks? take the 8 masks from those 8 people and refund them their credits? Scammer takes credits from 8 masks and buys bunch of mats/armor/mounts and thus does not have the full amount of credits in his account? how do they make it right in your eyes? Just give you the stuff and let those who got it keep it?

 

You want it back, they can't take it from others without having LOADs of other complaints "hey I bought this item and you took it away /unsub, bioware is just stealing from us now"

 

You want them to simply give it to you, and if it WAS an inside job, how do they punish the person since they can't tell you who it was, and they can't simply give it back since they don't know if it was orchestrated to get multiple items for free from CS.

 

It happened, it sucks, you were not the first, you wont be the last, but Bioware is not to blame, and they are not the ones to "fix" anything since nothing is "broken".

 

sorry and have a good day

 

I answered this question earlier in the thread. The people who bought any stolen items have no way to know. Shut down the account of the scammer, no refund if he (unlikely) bought a subscription (for violating the ToS). When I say restore the stolen items I don't mean to go through every GTN transaction, I mean look at our ledger, and put exactly the same number of items back in the bank. Don't take from anyone else, because that would defeat the purpose and make no sense anyway. It's not like we would be selling the returned stuff anyway, we would be using them so any "market imbalance" would have already been caused by the scammer, not added to by us.

 

I don't think fixing it is "virtually impossible". I think CS has allowed us to think it is virtually impossible because that's not where the money is at. It's at the Cartel Market. This would take away from time the regular employees are using to do other things, and that's the issue to me. In the zero-sum game of time and effort and money, the money that has been made is ignored in favor of the money yet to be made. Is this business? Yes it is. But only to a point. Therefore, I will impact the money yet to be made (my meager sub and potential hypercrate purchases) in order to attempt some sort or balance.

[EazyWin]

An interesting thought... what if the player was willing to pay for the time to do that? (since it isn't free)

 

OP, if customer service came back to you and said, "we can do that research and restore the items, but there will be a $500 fee attached to that", would you then be happy?

 

Real people would have to do real work to do what you want, and those people have to be paid. 3 hours of a developer's time could be $500 pretty quickly.

 

This is indeed an interesting concept, but I personally would find $500 to be a bit rich for my taste. I would pay 50 bucks, but only if proof of a lasting resolution was delivered afterwards. That's what I think the action is worth, considering I would then re-sub and go back to buying hypercrates whenever I felt like it.

 

Edit: This would open a whole other can of worms though, in regards to who would feel like paying real money and who would not. Just because I would pay a small fee doesn't mean the majority of people would if it were a standard practice.

Edited February 27, 2015 by EazyWin

[Bachannal]

An interesting thought... what if the player was willing to pay for the time to do that? (since it isn't free)

 

OP, if customer service came back to you and said, "we can do that research and restore the items, but there will be a $500 fee attached to that", would you then be happy?

 

Real people would have to do real work to do what you want, and those people have to be paid. 3 hours of a developer's time could be $500 pretty quickly.

 

And that's if it only took 3 hours to do all of that research and then fix all of the tables to adjust all that inventory and credits.

 

Also, in regard to people receiving canned responses from CS. Look...no one likes them. Most CS teams don't even like using them, but due to volume (as only one of many factors), it's a common practice that is used by most CS teams that deal with email type support. This is called TRIAGING. You have tickets come into a queue, you send off a canned response to alert the user that the ticket has been seen, and then you work the ticket.

 

If you folks want better CS - then try petitioning Bioware to maybe pay their CS people a decent wage? I can promise you as someone who's been in this part of the tech industry for the last 12 years or so - that CS teams, even though one of the most vital teams in ANY company, are also one of the lowest paid, worst treated units in MOST companies. And as someone who does this for a living, we're also (by and large) treated like sh*t by the majority of customers as well. Do you know how hard it is to stay positive and want to assist people who are going on public forums such as these and and declaring how sh*tty you are at everything? Things that are likely far outside of your teams control to address? Because another truth is that very few CS teams have any sort of power at any company. All they can do is look over complaints, do their due diligence as best as they are equipped to do so and try to fix what they're allowed to or can fix. Beyond that, the position routinely involves biting your tongue because most upper management teams don't give two sh*ts less what CS has to say unless CS can show them fancy pie charts showing that they're losing money.

 

So...while I empathize that you got canned responses, and that felt very impersonal, you should be pointing your vitriol at:

 

1. The person who made the error in your guild - because DUR.

2. BioWare's management team for creating a CS org that is either truly lazy (which I actually doubt), or hamstringed by whatever bs policies they're forced to adhere to.

 

All of that said...it sucks that happened to you guys, and I hope that somehow you get some measure of justice.

[azudelphi]

The only way they could restore all the items in the ledger is if they could 100% assure that every item stolen was destroyed downstream. Short of that, there are other issues that come into play...

 

So, no, it isn't a simple "Read the log, restore the lost"

[EazyWin]

And that's if it only took 3 hours to do all of that research and then fix all of the tables to adjust all that inventory and credits.

 

Also, in regard to people receiving canned responses from CS. Look...no one likes them. Most CS teams don't even like using them, but due to volume (as only one of many factors), it's a common practice that is used by most CS teams that deal with email type support. This is called TRIAGING. You have tickets come into a queue, you send off a canned response to alert the user that the ticket has been seen, and then you work the ticket.

 

If you folks want better CS - then try petitioning Bioware to maybe pay their CS people a decent wage? I can promise you as someone who's been in this part of the tech industry for the last 12 years or so - that CS teams, even though one of the most vital teams in ANY company, are also one of the lowest paid, worst treated units in MOST companies. And as someone who does this for a living, we're also (by and large) treated like sh*t by the majority of customers as well. Do you know how hard it is to stay positive and want to assist people who are going on public forums such as these and and declaring how sh*tty you are at everything? Things that are likely far outside of your teams control to address? Because another truth is that very few CS teams have any sort of power at any company. All they can do is look over complaints, do their due diligence as best as they are equipped to do so and try to fix what they're allowed to or can fix. Beyond that, the position routinely involves biting your tongue because most upper management teams don't give two sh*ts less what CS has to say unless CS can show them fancy pie charts showing that they're losing money.

 

So...while I empathize that you got canned responses, and that felt very impersonal, you should be pointing your vitriol at:

 

1. The person who made the error in your guild - because DUR.

2. BioWare's management team for creating a CS org that is either truly lazy (which I actually doubt), or hamstringed by whatever bs policies they're forced to adhere to.

 

All of that said...it sucks that happened to you guys, and I hope that somehow you get some measure of justice.

 

You are absolutely right, and I hope it is apparent that my disappointment is not with an individual CS worker. I fully expect that Bioware keeps a skeleton crew in their CS department to save money (because those execs need their bonuses!). That being said, I would think the cleaning out of a guild's bank would be a higher priority ticket (due to the effect on multiple people/accounts) than the standard bug report. Also, the initial response was to a different problem than the one we were actually having, which contributed to the feeling of dismissal.

[Heat-Wave]

I answered this question earlier in the thread. The people who bought any stolen items have no way to know. Shut down the account of the scammer, no refund if he (unlikely) bought a subscription (for violating the ToS). When I say restore the stolen items I don't mean to go through every GTN transaction, I mean look at our ledger, and put exactly the same number of items back in the bank. Don't take from anyone else, because that would defeat the purpose and make no sense anyway. It's not like we would be selling the returned stuff anyway, we would be using them so any "market imbalance" would have already been caused by the scammer, not added to by us.

 

^ That is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, that you would even think it is an option tells me you aren't thinking it through.

 

Otherwise, guilds with a ton of stuff in the guild bank would have someone create a throwaway account to "scam" themselves, then complain to CS, the throwaway account is deleted by CS (but not before it mails and sells stuff and moves the credits to "other accounts", poof, instant profit...

 

You're asking for duplicates to be created, that is a door that shouldn't be opened, or it will get exploited to an extent that would make the recent Ravagers exploit seem minor by comparison.

[EazyWin]

The only way they could restore all the items in the ledger is if they could 100% assure that every item stolen was destroyed downstream. Short of that, there are other issues that come into play...

 

So, no, it isn't a simple "Read the log, restore the lost"

 

Why would the items have to have been destroyed? I am legitimately confused by this.

[azudelphi]

Why would the items have to have been destroyed? I am legitimately confused by this.

 

 

Because without that, then there is an unacceptable risk of an item duplication exploit...

 

Edit: I am trying to tread very carefully here in the discussing of this. But since CS seems to be preventing this from occuring, I am hoping I am safe...

Edited February 27, 2015 by azudelphi

[DOHboy]

Why would the items have to have been destroyed? I am legitimately confused by this.

 

because they have no way of knowing who "profited" from the taken items. It could be a "scammer" it could also be your GM in a throw away account, sending all the times to himself on other toons and profiting. Your guild gets the items back, he gets the originals, and everyone is happy happy having doubled their items.

 

BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPEND! Says you. They can't prove it quickly and easily to justify the effort.

 

We're sorry it happened, but to expect these items to be returned is unrealistic and to quite over them not being returned is (personally) pathetic.

[EazyWin]

^ That is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, that you would even think it is an option tells me you aren't thinking it through.

 

Otherwise, guilds with a ton of stuff in the guild bank would have someone create a throwaway account to "scam" themselves, then complain to CS, the throwaway account is deleted by CS (but not before it mails and sells stuff and moves the credits to "other accounts", poof, instant profit...

 

You're asking for duplicates to be created, that is a door that shouldn't be opened, or it will get exploited to an extent that would make the recent Ravagers exploit seem minor by comparison.

 

It appears you have even less faith in Bioware than I do.

 

It seems the biggest question then is how much they actually track for all of this. I am not an employee therefore I cannot say with any specific degree of certainty exactly what they can and cannot track BUT...

 

The Ravagers exploit opened up a can of worms beyond the immediate repercussions of the exploit itself, with Bioware stating that they were going through the data to catch anyone who had ever used the exploit to gain an advantage. This to me means that they had enough data to know the who, when, and how (where and what and why is a bit of a given, but also part of it). If they have access to enough data to determine that, why wouldn't they be able to do the same for these types of actions, both real and "false flag"?

 

If they truly do not have the capability to do that, then saying so would be better than nothing. An explanation would take all of five minutes to write out. Wouldn't even have to delve into the technical reasons behind the limitations.

 

And I'm sure someone will have an issue with "giving out too much information to enable bad guys". But here's the thing: I'm not the bad guy. I couldn't code my way out of anything. I just want justice to be done, or at the very least an explanation of why it can't. I know, how quaint.

[EazyWin]

because they have no way of knowing who "profited" from the taken items. It could be a "scammer" it could also be your GM in a throw away account, sending all the times to himself on other toons and profiting. Your guild gets the items back, he gets the originals, and everyone is happy happy having doubled their items.

 

BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPEND! Says you. They can't prove it quickly and easily to justify the effort.

 

We're sorry it happened, but to expect these items to be returned is unrealistic and to quite over them not being returned is (personally) pathetic.

 

Again, it goes back to how much they actually know. The quickly and easily part is exactly what I am referring to. I have said all along it would take more work than doing nothing. But then if they want to do nothing to keep me around, then I will do nothing to stay.

[azudelphi]

And I'm sure someone will have an issue with "giving out too much information to enable bad guys". But here's the thing: I'm not the bad guy. I couldn't code my way out of anything. I just want justice to be done, or at the very least an explanation of why it can't. I know, how quaint.

 

Because literally, every item would have to tracked... they would have to manually follow every different item, every breaking of the item, every GTN transaction of the item, every trade of each item, every credit lost by a player to this, every credit gained by the thief doing it... it's an insanely complex, and rather unrealistic to call reasonable, amount of effort at this point.

 

The Ravagers was a different story because they had a distinguishable event on all the accounts. There was an achievement which stood out like a sore thumb. There was a setting of a phase and an instance ID they could track and a relatively limited amount of players who participated in it... and it still took several weeks for them to compile the data and execute their actions.

 

It's not one and the same. The answer is, they probably could track everything down... if they could stop the servers dead in their tracks for a week or more.

 

Edit:

Again, it goes back to how much they actually know. The quickly and easily part is exactly what I am referring to. I have said all along it would take more work than doing nothing. But then if they want to do nothing to keep me around, then I will do nothing to stay.

 

There is nothing quick and easy about what you are asking for that doesn't come with an extremely high risk of exploitation. Between giving you everything lost based on your ledger and doing nothing, they have to do nothing to because it is the lesser of two evils. What reasonable alternative do you have?

Edited February 27, 2015 by azudelphi