Why the new Operations are threatening to kill the game.

[Shwarzchild]

Honestly the worst thing BW could do is add OPs to the GF in the first place...

 

I don't agree here. I wish they'd open up the group finder so I can que for any op I want, at any difficulty. I absolutely hate how the group finder gives you 1 op, and that's it. Oh you want to run Ravagers? Too bad go to fleet and sit there because this week it's ToS. Oh you want to run maybe a Dread Palace or Dread Fortress? Get over to fleet cause those aren't allowed to be group findered at 60. I don't even know if you can get add them at 55. I'd hope you can.

 

I feel like flashpoints in group finder work because the pool of players looking to play one, or two, or three for the weekly, is high. And, they have access to que for a plethora of flashpoints. If they aren't up to doing Tython or Rishi or BH, they can deselect them and still get in on the action. With Ops nope you're stuck. 16 man story mode or die they say, and you can't even choose. It's just horrendously limiting. 16 man doesn't help the learning curve, but 8 man does.

 

Lots of subjectivity sure, but that's really how I feel regarding what a blatant miss the current iteration of the group finder is. I think THAT'S what is killing this game in the sense that the processes that should be the foundation for great group game play aren't really there.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I don't agree here. I wish they'd open up the group finder so I can que for any op I want, at any difficulty. I absolutely hate how the group finder gives you 1 op, and that's it. Oh you want to run Ravagers? Too bad go to fleet and sit there because this week it's ToS. Oh you want to run maybe a Dread Palace or Dread Fortress? Get over to fleet cause those aren't allowed to be group findered at 60. I don't even know if you can get add them at 55. I'd hope you can.

 

I feel like flashpoints in group finder work because the pool of players looking to play one, or two, or three for the weekly, is high. And, they have access to que for a plethora of flashpoints. If they aren't up to doing Tython or Rishi or BH, they can deselect them and still get in on the action. With Ops nope you're stuck. 16 man story mode or die they say, and you can't even choose. It's just horrendously limiting. 16 man doesn't help the learning curve, but 8 man does.

 

Lots of subjectivity sure, but that's really how I feel regarding what a blatant miss the current iteration of the group finder is. I think THAT'S what is killing this game in the sense that the processes that should be the foundation for great group game play aren't really there.

 

The problem ix OPs takes alot more coordination and communication. It also takes the proper gear. In a GF OP, you have people trying to join an OP in green and blue gear, or like 148 gear, then they come on the forums QQing about how hard it is, and that SM OPs just should be faceroll easy because they "paid" for the content. Which by the way, you dont pay for content, you pay for accesz to the content. Not a guarantee they you should be able to finish it.

[XORDYH]

The problem ix OPs takes alot more coordination and communication. It also takes the proper gear. In a GF OP, you have people trying to join an OP in green and blue gear, or like 148 gear, then they come on the forums QQing about how hard it is, and that SM OPs just should be faceroll easy because they "paid" for the content. Which by the way, you dont pay for content, you pay for accesz to the content. Not a guarantee they you should be able to finish it.

 

Group Finder Operations have Bolster. Your gear literally doesn't matter.

[FerkWork]

I hope BW sticks to their guns and makes the next batch of Ops just as hard or even harder for all modes. Bring it on!

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Group Finder Operations have Bolster. Your gear literally doesn't matter.

 

That is tacticals...not OPs...and if I am wrong god help everyone...cause bolster has been so good for pvp...

 

/sarcasm

Edited March 3, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt

[JouerTue]

That is tacticals...not OPs...and if I am wrong god help everyone...cause bolster has been so good for pvp...

 

/sarcasm

 

but it's true: 16 sm via Gf have bolster..you can enter in greens and gain stats..

[XORDYH]

That is tacticals...not OPs...and if I am wrong god help everyone...cause bolster has been so good for pvp...

 

/sarcasm

 

Tacticals don't have Bolster, only KDY, PvP, and Group Finder Operations.

 

You need less gear for Group Finder Operations than level 60 Tactical Flashpoints. The gear progression is totally borked.

Edited March 3, 2015 by XORDYH

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Tacticals don't have Bolster, only KDY, PvP, and Group Finder Operations.

 

You need less gear for Group Finder Operations than level 60 Tactical Flashpoints. The gear progression is totally borked.

 

Wow....that is just....stupid...

 

sometimes I really wonder about these developers

Edited March 3, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt

[FerkWork]

Still best response to all the QQ

you just want easier ops so you can walk through it hitting random buttons not learning anything about your class or the raid and want to be rewarded for it i cant stand by this

[Shwarzchild]

Still best response to all the QQ

 

It's pretty true. I haven't seen one response from someone who demands they be called casual that supports another core belief. There only has been one post that I thought was highly relevant where the poster said "I expect to be challenged in different ways, not just get out of circle X or Y" (obviously I've paraphrased and used awesome grammar to boot). That poster I shook my head in agreement with. I want a lot of fun dynamics not just don't stand in stupid. The problem is that there is a segment of the community that can't progress past being stupid.

[Kingsbount]

I guess no one actually undestand what going on.

I can hear much of this "don't stand in stupid" and "L2P" ****.

Ok. Let's try it again.

Rule "don't stand in stupid" works fine.

In 55 HM FP. Becouse they BALANCED (a familiar word huh?).

But in 60 HM FP and OP we have this "stupid" ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Not to mention that new FP and OP's are EXTREMELY demanding to PC configuration.

A little lag - BAM! You are on the floor.

Balance? Never heard of it.

Having troubles with getting out form AOE? PHHFF!!! Buy yourself Alienware PC, noob!

 

You, elitists, made this "L2P" thing as a fine excuse for yourself.

Instead of just admit that new content is far from balanced - you just say "L2P'.

[FerkWork]

To quote the great Ancient Roman gladiator Epeen Scrubsmashicous Eliticus (125-75 BCE):

"Discere Ludere"

 

I totally did not make that up.

Edited March 4, 2015 by FerkWork

[Test_Eagle]

I am a former HM progression raider. Not NiM, I admit I'm not that good. Former because I'm not available for my guild runs and when I get online can vary from day to day week to week. I've completed the current OPs in SM with my guild and RAV in GF. Have yet to complete ToS in a GF. I have not attempted HM raiding so far in this xpac. I love raiding, this is what I play MMOs for, I love HMs for the challenge and working with a group to progress, I love SMs just to chill and kill things in a group.

 

My problem with the current OPs is not the difficulty, SM is pretty easy in terms of mechanics apart from the bugs. My problem is time wise. In a guild run, we can knock over both currents SMs in under 2 hours. In a GF I can spend 4 hrs and still be stuck on the 2nd or 3rd boss of a single OP. 4hrs is longer than my guild HM progression runs. I don't have that sort of time to waste, especially for SMs. They aren't a challenge and putting up with players who will not learn or do the mechanics and cannot play their class/role is not the challenge I am looking for.

 

I know that a PUG is not a guarantee of finishing anything, especially at the start of an expansion. I don't expect to always finish when joining a PUG. I'm an experienced raider who knows full well what to expect from PUGs. But the amount of failed PUGs that waste so much of my free time has made me stop bothering to log in anymore. I'm over it. I'm not having fun in OPs anymore.

 

I know eventually that players will over gear the OPs and runs will be more successful, maybe I will start logging back in more then. It'll be a few more months before I can commit fully to my guild again. But at this time, I don't have the time to waste or feel like wasting my free time with something I'm not having fun with.

[DieGhostDie]

Delete. Not worth it. Edited March 4, 2015 by DieGhostDie

[Kissakias]

new OPs arent killing the game.

They are new and every time when new OPs introduced in a game, casuals running the old OPs and hardcorers running the new ones.

the problem this year is that NOONE runningthe old OPS not only in NiM but they dont run them even in HMs^^.

Thats the odd in this game.

[Shwarzchild]

I guess no one actually undestand what going on.

I can hear much of this "don't stand in stupid" and "L2P" ****.

Ok. Let's try it again.

Rule "don't stand in stupid" works fine.

In 55 HM FP. Becouse they BALANCED (a familiar word huh?).

But in 60 HM FP and OP we have this "stupid" ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Not to mention that new FP and OP's are EXTREMELY demanding to PC configuration.

A little lag - BAM! You are on the floor.

Balance? Never heard of it.

Having troubles with getting out form AOE? PHHFF!!! Buy yourself Alienware PC, noob!

 

You, elitists, made this "L2P" thing as a fine excuse for yourself.

Instead of just admit that new content is far from balanced - you just say "L2P'.

 

There's plenty in here that points to you making excuses for yourself as well. If you've actually read this thread there are concessions being offered by us elitists. What you have to at least realize is that by definition (and this was posted previously) operations are complex, challenging, missions that require 16 players [i disagree here I think 8 is best but BW put the 16 man]. Operations require greater player skill and coordination for success.

 

So the people that say well it should be faceroll simple because story are missing the entire idea of why an operation exists. But please continue to add reasons why doing operations are impossible. These two are the newest to the game, and need to last, so they need to be hard so people don't finish them and complain about having nothing to do for months until the next expansion. History lesson: at launch we had ONE operation. ONE. Players burned through the leveling content, burned through the flashpoint content, burned through the pve space content, burned up pvp, and went right through the one operation we had. People complained that there was nothing to do end game wise, and thus lead to the mass exodus that shut down huge amounts of servers, and lead for this game to be free to play. We can't have that happen again. So this content has to take time.

 

Just try to learn something for pete's sake in terms of operations. Don't go to ToS yet. Stay in Ravagers. Make sure you tell yourself that you probably will fail more than you will succeed. Every time you wipe try to figure out why you did. How did you die? Do you know what you're doing? Ask a question if not. SPEAK or TYPE to people. We don't bite. Well most of us don't. If you encounter the sad sack who berates you then put that person on /ignore and move on. If you can't clear it in one night that's fine! IF YOU FORM A GROUP ON ANOTHER DAY, YOU WILL START AT YOUR PROGRESS POINT (hopefully you have one).

 

But all in all, quit the crying. Start learning. If you don't like to do those things then this section of the game is not for you. Maybe this game isn't for you. Pretty much end of story. If you want to get better, but are struggling currently it will get better over time. Rome wasn't built in a day people.

 

edit: There's been mention of hard mode flashpoints too. If you want something silly easy so you can see the story, run tacticals. They are easy, they don't take up your time, you can see the story. If you don't know which tier hard mode or tactical is right for you, put your mouse over the title of hard mode flashpoints, or tacticals. Read the descriptions and see which one fits you best.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[Kingsbount]

wal.

 

Problem is that before 3.0 i was able to complete and have fun in all FP and OP's.

They was fun and challenging (reasonable challenging).

Now we have huge pack of insane mechanics.

Does it provide challenge? Of course!

Does it provide fun? For raiders maybe.

But casual gamers was abandoned.

 

Again i have to make travel in time.

 

Was HM FP fun before 3.0?

Hell yeah they was.

They was provide challenge (and don't give me that crap about faceroll please).

They was FUN.

People are actually PLAYED the freaking GAME, instead of WORKING on it.

Or that is what you calling "faceroll"? When the game actually fun?

 

And who judge about bad and good players?

Raiders?

Don't make me laugh.

Im a good player.

My favorite roles are tanking and healing, becouse they fun.

Healed and tanked all HM FP (and not one time believe me).

 

But follow your logic im a bad tank and healer simply becouse i can't handle this *ss-r*ping mechanics in Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi (im not talking about Tython first boss becouse its 50/50).

Of course you can say that IM BAD. But do you really think that im the only one who can't do those FP?

Nope.

There's people who think that new content is not balanced.

But they perefer to stay out from forums, becouse they know - they will never be heard.

They will be called noobs and everything else.

 

P.S. Your words about "run tacticals instead of HM" is only proves that im right.

P.P.S. Speaking about "hover mouse on req". New FP can be done in 178 gear rate. If you will provide me video like you and your team are doing Blood Hunt and Battle of Rishi FP in 178 gear - i will take your words seriously. Otherwise you just talking sh**.

[FerkWork]

Problem is that before 3.0 i was able to complete and have fun in all FP and OP's.

They was fun and challenging (reasonable challenging).

Now we have huge pack of insane mechanics.

Does it provide challenge? Of course!

Does it provide fun? For those who stack common sense in their builds maybe.

But facerollers were abandoned.

 

Again i have to make travel in time.

 

Was HM FP cakewalks before 3.0?

Hell yeah they was.

They was opportunity to auto pilot (and don't give me that crap about hard please).

They was FACEROLL.

People actually Fell asleep or solo'ed the freaking FPs, instead of PLAYING them.

Or that is what you calling "fun"? When the Ops and Hms actually so easy I could watch a movie while tanking Tyrans?

 

And who judge about whiners and players seeking fun?

Facerollers?

Don't make me laugh.

Im a whiny player.

My favorite roles are facerolling and QQ, becouse they fun.

Did that in all HM FP (and not one time believe me).

 

But follow your logic im a whiner and QQ'er simply becouse i can't handle this dont stand in stupid and DPS mechanics in Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi (im not talking about Tython first boss becouse its can be cheesed.

Of course you can say that IM QQ'er. But do you really think that im the only one who whines about those FP?

Probable.

There's people who think that new content is balanced.

But they perefer to stay out from forums, becouse they know - they will never be heard.

They will be called elitists and everything else.

 

FTFY

Don't worry they are going to do the nerf them to the ground in the upcoming patch. It's sad.

But you only discussed HM FP's tell me how what you said is relevant to those SM ops. They are fun and easy once you get the hang of the mechanics and what to expect.

[g_land]

I keep seeing this where people say it was more enjoyable before 3.0 and the ops were easier... how long previous to the release of 3.0 are you talking? 3 months? 6? A year? Because if you aren't comparing this to April 2013, you are making an invalid comparison.

 

People had difficulty with the mechanics of both the ops and the hm flashpoints that released at that time. Less issues with TFB because that was rescaled to 55 otherwise 2.0 would have released with only one operation and 4 hm flashpoints.

 

If you joined at a later date than the 2.0 release you probably didn't experience it or maybe there was so much time over geared that those memories faded. Please remember that the minimum requirement for df sm was 156 gear at a time when most people were in full underworld rating gear, probably commendation gear but that was much more useful in 2.0.

 

If you go back in these forums you will probably find some old threads about how people were requiring pugs to have 30k hp to pug sm S&V. The funny thing about that is... you had to already have the drops from S&V and TFB to get to that hp level (arkanian gear).

 

The content needs to be harder so the content doesn't get stale quickly, df and dp were out for 14 months before 3.0 released and commendation gear at that point was 180 rating, FOUR gear levels above that required for the operations themselves.

[FerkWork]

Delete. Not worth it.

 

So that's how Zorz prepares for Ops. BRB buying some inflatable fat suits

[FerkWork]

I keep seeing this where people say it was more enjoyable before 3.0 and the ops were easier... how long previous to the release of 3.0 are you talking? 3 months? 6? A year? Because if you aren't comparing this to April 2013, you are making an invalid comparison.

 

People had difficulty with the mechanics of both the ops and the hm flashpoints that released at that time. Less issues with TFB because that was rescaled to 55 otherwise 2.0 would have released with only one operation and 4 hm flashpoints.

 

If you joined at a later date than the 2.0 release you probably didn't experience it or maybe there was so much time over geared that those memories faded. Please remember that the minimum requirement for df sm was 156 gear at a time when most people were in full underworld rating gear, probably commendation gear but that was much more useful in 2.0.

 

If you go back in these forums you will probably find some old threads about how people were requiring pugs to have 30k hp to pug sm S&V. The funny thing about that is... you had to already have the drops from S&V and TFB to get to that hp level (arkanian gear).

 

The content needs to be harder so the content doesn't get stale quickly, df and dp were out for 14 months before 3.0 released and commendation gear at that point was 180 rating, FOUR gear levels above that required for the operations themselves.

 

 

This +1

[bdatt]

Did my first 16m sm clear of Ravagers last night. Avoided for longest time due to token loot design, and just had my first opportunity since that fix.

 

I healed and it was actually quite fun. 13 folks from one guild, a few quite experienced, but the rest clearly weren't progression raiders. Lots of damage from blue on Bulo (and occasional stacked barrel or dps pull on scatter blast), fire damage (and enrage issues) on Torque, standing in Master's wheel of fire, not cleansing burning on Cor. About a 2 hour clear with quite a few wipes but it was the first time I've healed SM and not spent my entire night as a healer dpsing.

 

Best thing was each of those players got better and I think they got satisfaction from the clear. Learning to spread out to minimize AOE stacking on bulo, move more quickly from fire on torque, recognize the burning debuff and cleanse (first few pulls only half the group would cleanse, by end only 1-2 may miss). Each of these got better with a few pulls.

 

Still not totally random puggable imo which is fine. One pug dps died in the first minute every time on bulo and torque due to standing in blue/fire. Clearly unable to adapt and learn and I just stopped wasting heals on him. I don't think a raid should be clearable with a full roster of that guy.

 

SM DF/DP was basically a tactical at end of 2.X, but wasn't when it first dropped. These new ones will get there eventually, that pug will be able to clear with 10+ folks like him, and then we'll repeat the problem with 4.0. Rav and ToS will be faceroll at end of 3.X and the new ones will be challenging. Not sure what can be done without always making SM faceroll or changing the way gear progression happens within an expansion so content isn't way outgeared.

[MisterBlackJack]

Problem is that before 3.0 i was able to complete and have fun in all FP and OP's.

They was fun and challenging (reasonable challenging).

Now we have huge pack of insane mechanics.

Does it provide challenge? Of course!

Does it provide fun? For raiders maybe.

But casual gamers was abandoned.

 

Again i have to make travel in time.

 

Was HM FP fun before 3.0?

Hell yeah they was.

They was provide challenge (and don't give me that crap about faceroll please).

They was FUN.

People are actually PLAYED the freaking GAME, instead of WORKING on it.

Or that is what you calling "faceroll"? When the game actually fun?

 

And who judge about bad and good players?

Raiders?

Don't make me laugh.

Im a good player.

My favorite roles are tanking and healing, becouse they fun.

Healed and tanked all HM FP (and not one time believe me).

 

But follow your logic im a bad tank and healer simply becouse i can't handle this *ss-r*ping mechanics in Blood Hunt or Battle of Rishi (im not talking about Tython first boss becouse its 50/50).

Of course you can say that IM BAD. But do you really think that im the only one who can't do those FP?

Nope.

There's people who think that new content is not balanced.

But they perefer to stay out from forums, becouse they know - they will never be heard.

They will be called noobs and everything else.

 

P.S. Your words about "run tacticals instead of HM" is only proves that im right.

P.P.S. Speaking about "hover mouse on req". New FP can be done in 178 gear rate. If you will provide me video like you and your team are doing Blood Hunt and Battle of Rishi FP in 178 gear - i will take your words seriously. Otherwise you just talking sh**.

 

I didn't find pre 3.0 (2.x) FP and ops "fun" I find them boring outsidevs few fights and sprnding more time waiting on AFKers than fighting. I love these new ops they are challenging, require to stay on your toes and stay alert.

 

None of the ops or fps (minus blood hunt) is actually HARD they just require focus and understanding. Having things like this is best for casuals because it makes them better and more better players means better pve community. So yes take some time to read up and watch dome videos.

[Kingsbount]

Well... I am an elitist.

Deal with this, noob.

Also i'm really love to quote and change people's posts..

 

Umm... Agree

[FerkWork]

Umm... Agree

 

Well I'm happy we can agree on something

Swag