LFG - A Feature that is not Needed

[Herdsnerfs]

I keep hearing complaints about the lack of features this game has, as compared to a "modern MMO in 2012." First, let's not kid oursevles - people are talking about WoW when they say this. One feature asked for is LFG. Well, for PvP, I agree, it would be nice. PvP is different than standard PvE fare. But otherwise, I think LFG is a terrible tool, and made WoW much worse off.

 

- People unable to find the dungeon after a wipe. Because they never actually went to the place before on foot.

 

- Exploring was a thing of the past. You could complete the entire game while hanging out in your main city, while engaging in meaningless chat about Chuck Norris, or walking mammoths around the cities perimeters.

 

- Once quests were moved into the dungeons, even LESS reason to explore. No need to go pick up quests for a place. NPCs conveniently all wait for adventurers to check into the dungeon.

 

- Content dumbed down tremendously. From pre-LFG days in BC, where content was challenging, and you felt like you earned the stuff you got, it went to epics tossed around like candy. You could run a new dungeon 3 times or more an hour. Now, the latest content (including raids), are demolished the day they are released. It's like an epic vending machine.

 

- Gogo! The dungeons went from a social affair, where you could help other players, chat, and have fun, to some aberration of the "gimme now!" crowd, where the point was to go as quickly as possible, ignoring things like healers mana, people trying to loot things, etc. Very discouraging and frustrating to run groups with these sorts of players.

 

- Fostered a quitter mentality. I recall early WoW, people stuck it out. You wiped 5 times in Strath? You were in BRD for 3 hours? That's ok.. people stuck it out and beat it. They expected wipes, because the content was not as easy. After LFG, and the dumbing down of dungeons, any wipes was considered instant failure, and people would leave. In dungeons, and in raids as well. One wipe? Clearly this raid or group is a failgroup, and I am leaving now! Horrible attitude, and drove me nuts when I ran raids, and I had keep replacing these impatient "gimme now!" players, who quit at the first sign of adversity.

 

The LFG also made it so it snowballed. The more Blizzard caved to these players wanting everything, and wanting it now, the easier the content got, and the MORE this occurred. Culminating in the laughable last raid where many guilds beat the entire raid and last boss on the first day of release, on every server. And how quickly those players are saying "omg, where is the content?" again.

 

I hope they do no cave to these players. Perhaps it may mean lower subscription #s for them, but the people that won't stick around, are exactly the sort of players that made WoW so unpalatable as it went on. I've already encountered some of those players here, and I can only hope that no dumbing down of the game occurs. That they DON'T add a LFG feature. And that these sorts of players will move on to pandas, or something along those lines, keeping a more dedicated, non-quitting, helpful, mature playerbase, that actually enjoys playing the game, not running virtual vending machines for epics.

[Herdsnerfs]

Bumping for first page goodness.

[Fastor]

Your conclusion does not follow your argument. You said that this game does not need a Looking for Group tool. But, you spend all of your time arguing against the specific implementation that Blizzard used for World of Warcraft.

 

There is obviously a good percentage of the player base for whom the current system of finding groups doesn't work. That doesn't mean they need to directly port over WoW's tool. But, I do believe they need something better than what is in the game now.

[drbeat]

Once you've played this game for a little while, you'll realize why at minimum the first 3 of your points make no sense in SW:TOR.

[alkanterah]

Yeah I'd agree that a LFG tool isn't really needed in some of the older games of which you speak. TOR? Yeah it would actually help here as the entrances to all of them are right there in a clustered space, there is no foot travel. They're short, quick, and there's no reason you should need to spend longer looking for a group than you actually spend in the flash point.

 

In short, most of the arguments against a LFD tool are valid, just not when applied to this game.

[bowiehero]

DDO has excellent LFG tools that don't kill communities.

[Vaestmannaeyjar]

We need something so you cvan play a healer without being harassed or seeing "LFM 1 healer" spam in general channels.

[GoldPush]

Yea no lfg needed... I enjOy asking in /1 for 3+ hours without getting enough for a group.. Gives me the chance to communicate with myself in general whilst others interject with comments about wow and "where is advanced class trainer!!!!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!"

[TiiRahnedancer]

You said that this game does not need a Looking for Group tool. But, you spend all of your time arguing against the specific implementation that Blizzard used for World of Warcraft.

 

I assume you are implying here that such a tool could be added in a different way for TOR and avoid a lot of the problems that the OP mentions. I would agree with that.

 

But what I've seen in a lot of posts requesting such a tool is that those players pretty much want the WoW tool and not a different implementation.

 

Having played FFXI for years I don't really have a problem with the current LFG tool that's already in the game. I would like to see some features added to that tool instead of an entirely new "dungeon finder" or something like that. I'm fine with improvements that help us find group members more quickly/efficiently. What I don't really want is something that makes the group for us.

Edited December 25, 2011 by TiiRahnedancer

[Herdsnerfs]

There is a tool - you can mark yourself looking for a group, with comments, and see others who are looking, and read their comments.

 

I do think a channel dedicated to LFG would help. But other than that, I don't think much else is needed. Also, I was just pointing out all the issues that occurred with WoW - this game would have some of those same issues, and probably some different ones. But all in all, it causes far too many issues than it fixes.

[alkanterah]

There is a tool - you can mark yourself looking for a group, with comments, and see others who are looking, and read their comments.

 

I do think a channel dedicated to LFG would help. But other than that, I don't think much else is needed. Also, I was just pointing out all the issues that occurred with WoW - this game would have some of those same issues, and probably some different ones. But all in all, it causes far too many issues than it fixes.

 

Would be nice if people used it.

[Baaddare]

I keep hearing complaints about the lack of features this game has, as compared to a "modern MMO in 2012." First, let's not kid oursevles - people are talking about WoW when they say this. One feature asked for is LFG. Well, for PvP, I agree, it would be nice. PvP is different than standard PvE fare. But otherwise, I think LFG is a terrible tool, and made WoW much worse off.

 

- People unable to find the dungeon after a wipe. Because they never actually went to the place before on foot.

 

- Exploring was a thing of the past. You could complete the entire game while hanging out in your main city, while engaging in meaningless chat about Chuck Norris, or walking mammoths around the cities perimeters.

 

- Once quests were moved into the dungeons, even LESS reason to explore. No need to go pick up quests for a place. NPCs conveniently all wait for adventurers to check into the dungeon.

 

- Content dumbed down tremendously. From pre-LFG days in BC, where content was challenging, and you felt like you earned the stuff you got, it went to epics tossed around like candy. You could run a new dungeon 3 times or more an hour. Now, the latest content (including raids), are demolished the day they are released. It's like an epic vending machine.

 

- Gogo! The dungeons went from a social affair, where you could help other players, chat, and have fun, to some aberration of the "gimme now!" crowd, where the point was to go as quickly as possible, ignoring things like healers mana, people trying to loot things, etc. Very discouraging and frustrating to run groups with these sorts of players.

 

- Fostered a quitter mentality. I recall early WoW, people stuck it out. You wiped 5 times in Strath? You were in BRD for 3 hours? That's ok.. people stuck it out and beat it. They expected wipes, because the content was not as easy. After LFG, and the dumbing down of dungeons, any wipes was considered instant failure, and people would leave. In dungeons, and in raids as well. One wipe? Clearly this raid or group is a failgroup, and I am leaving now! Horrible attitude, and drove me nuts when I ran raids, and I had keep replacing these impatient "gimme now!" players, who quit at the first sign of adversity.

 

The LFG also made it so it snowballed. The more Blizzard caved to these players wanting everything, and wanting it now, the easier the content got, and the MORE this occurred. Culminating in the laughable last raid where many guilds beat the entire raid and last boss on the first day of release, on every server. And how quickly those players are saying "omg, where is the content?" again.

 

I hope they do no cave to these players. Perhaps it may mean lower subscription #s for them, but the people that won't stick around, are exactly the sort of players that made WoW so unpalatable as it went on. I've already encountered some of those players here, and I can only hope that no dumbing down of the game occurs. That they DON'T add a LFG feature. And that these sorts of players will move on to pandas, or something along those lines, keeping a more dedicated, non-quitting, helpful, mature playerbase, that actually enjoys playing the game, not running virtual vending machines for epics.

 

we have it for pvp already you can que solo or as a group and it matchs you into wz

[Fastor]

I assume you are implying here that such a tool could be added in a different way for TOR and avoid a lot of the problems that the OP mentions. I would agree with that.

 

But what I've seen in a lot of posts requesting such a tool is that those players pretty much want the WoW tool and not a different implementation.

I do indeed believe that Bioware should provide tools/incentives to ease the difficulty of getting groups together. However, it does not need to be a direct port of WoW's LFD tool.

 

My observation on these forums hasn't been that people are calling for WoW's solution. Mostly it's people complaining that the current system is inadequate.

[Fastor]

Also, I was just pointing out all the issues that occurred with WoW

If that is all you were doing then why did you name your thread to imply that no Looking for Group feature is needed? What you should have said is that WoW's LFD tool is bad. But, that doesn't mean no LFG tools is needed at all. Edited December 25, 2011 by Fastor

[elvinu]

no. today did 3 groups, i'm the main tank. people fail and you w8 in front of the dungeon for others to come, and you wait. you remove them others come in and you wait again.

 

for some people is fun, for the other 10 million that play wow it isn't and blizz offered a tool. you dont like it you dont use it. period.

[Baaddare]

Your conclusion does not follow your argument. You said that this game does not need a Looking for Group tool. But, you spend all of your time arguing against the specific implementation that Blizzard used for World of Warcraft.

 

There is obviously a good percentage of the player base for whom the current system of finding groups doesn't work. That doesn't mean they need to directly port over WoW's tool. But, I do believe they need something better than what is in the game now.

 

we already ahve a tool that is different from from wow and most ( i said most not all) of the people who keep asking for a LFG tool do not use it. What many of them actually want is one just like in WoW. The one here if used is not automatic but does allow you to fill groups it does not instant port you to the FP or heroic start point. However, it does not take long to travel some place in this game. In 5 minutes you can be on any planet the furthest point on that planet and quick travel to a spaceport hope in your ship and be at the fleet. For heroics you can travel by your speeder and or taxi fast to a place to meet up with a group. Have you noticed that the lower lvl pre speeder areas tend to be smaller and with the heroics all grouped around a general middle area so that even pre speeder people can get places faster

Edited December 25, 2011 by Baaddare

[Fastor]

we already ahve a tool that is different from from wow and most ( i said most not all) of the people who keep asking for a LFG tool do not use it. What many of them actually want is one just like in WoW. The one here if used is not automatic but does allow you to fill groups it does not instant port you to the FP or heroic start point. However, it does not take long to travel some place in this game. In 5 minutes you can be on any planet the furthest point on that planet and quick travel to a spaceport hope in your ship and be at the fleet.

Forgive my ignorance but let me ask you some questions about the current LFG tool. Can you easily search for people who want to do a specific instance? Can you filter for group roles (healer, tank, DPS)? Can you search the entire server or just your current planet?

[vtravi]

I agree 1000% with the OP. I hope BW understands this, but I fear they will cave in.

 

I think if they do add LFD tool, have a few servers that don't have it. Of course you would need to give free transfers, but then everyone would be happy

[Baaddare]

Forgive my ignorance but let me ask you some questions about the current LFG tool. Can you easily search for people who want to do a specific instance? Can you filter for group roles (healer, tank, DPS)? Can you search the entire server or just your current planet?

 

actually yes i can. I look at the comments where people can put in roles and places they want to do. Yes the LFG covers the whole game not just 1 planet, zone, or shard. I would also point out that usually people on the same planet are the ones who want to do the heroics there.

[Baaddare]

I agree 1000% with the OP. I hope BW understands this, but I fear they will cave in.

 

I think if they do add LFD tool, have a few servers that don't have it. Of course you would need to give free transfers, but then everyone would be happy

 

they already stated they do not have plans to add one as they feel the current one helps build community

 

 

We're aware of this desire, but we actually believe that finding others on the same planet as you encourages social interaction a bit more than a general 'group finder'. We're not saying it'll never, ever happen but again, not high priority right now.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=696184#edit696184

[Fastor]

actually yes i can. I look at the comments where people can put in roles and places they want to do. Yes the LFG covers the whole game not just 1 planet, zone, or shard. I would also point out that usually people on the same planet are the ones who want to do the heroics there.

I'm sorry, but manually looking through a list of freeform text fields for instance names and roles is not the same as being able to do a search and get back only people who want to do a specific instance.

 

Also, how do I search for people who want to do a Flashpoint when I am on Tatooine?

[walkaway]

I wouldn't mind a tool like TBC / early WotLK LFG. No LFD, though.

[Baaddare]

I'm sorry, but manually looking through a list of freeform text fields for instance names and roles is not the same as being able to do a search and get back only people who want to do a specific instance.

 

Also, how do I search for people who want to do a Flashpoint when I am on Tatooine?

 

first the current LFG system covers the who game. Second, the minute or two it takes you to read the peopel lfg and comments is not long. Now could the current sytem be improved upon without going to and entire new system like a LFD ala wow sure. I have suggested they look at COH/COV system. It is very similar to the current one however it has fliters. So i I could tag myself as inquis healer FP. Then you as a searcher would set those select those same filters and my name pops up or even a variation say just filtering for healers then you could send me a tell saying he i know your flagged as for just a FP but could you come heal my heroic.

[Fastor]

first the current LFG system covers the who game.

I'm not exactly sure what that means.

Now could the current sytem be improved upon without going to and entire new system like a LFD ala wow sure. I have suggested they look at COH/COV system. It is very similar to the current one however it has fliters. So i I could tag myself as inquis healer FP. Then you as a searcher would set those select those same filters and my name pops up or even a variation say just filtering for healers then you could send me a tell saying he i know your flagged as for just a FP but could you come heal my heroic.

See? Now this is the sort of system I would love to see. It would simply make the searching of players easier and cut down on the /1 spam. But, people skip past this as an option and say that because they don't like WoW's LFD system that no tool should ever be built.

[Bansheedragon]

I think the OP need to step back for a moment and look at what hes talking about.

You dont want an LFD tool like the one in wow.

On that point I totally agree on hands down.

 

However, an LFG(note the difference) tool which help you find a group for a run but you still MUST find the instance or whatever it s your doing and get there on your own is something that would be very useful.

 

When I am out and about doing quests I coma across heroic quests that need 2 or 4 players.

So what do I do now?

 

Do I go out and do the non heroic quests and wait with the heroic ones in the hopes that someone else will be posting in chat about the same quest?

 

Or do I sit in a town and spam chat about how I want to do this and that heroic hoping that someone will respond, but get nothing else done?

 

A good tool that shows who is looking to do specific runs, what class they are and what role they can fill will actually help people find a group for the runs they need.

I dont want it to auto group me or port me to and from instances and what not, I just want a place where I can search for others with the same quest.

 

If I cant find anyone doing that particular run, I can just put myself on the list for that run and specify what role I'll fill.

That way, when someone later comes and need that list, they will see that I need it as well and what role I'll fill.

They can then send me a PM and ask if I want to join them, after which we can form a group and go ourselves to where we need to be and do it.

 

Its practical and makes it possible for me to do other things while waiting to get a group for whatever run I need.