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Time for a bit of rage....

Larsenex
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Larsenex

Larsenex

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So here is the deal. I am in FULL 192 and fully augged, and in 3 Ultimate (offhand, chest and head). So I am hearing that the new two hard modes are really a challenge. Ok no problem. The elitists here will of course say its too easy please make it harder.

 

My issue is not really the difficulty its the reward after multiple wipes for very poor gear and elite comms.

 

I want the ULTIMATE Elitist here who are always braggin' how easy these to here to do this..

 

Please fully equip yourself in only 178 gear. Then go cue up in a pug (AND) I want a video to show me that you can 'easily' do this showing every step and displaying your 'recommended' 178 gear. Also you need to do the bonus boss because that of course is 'doable' in that gear...you are an elitist please show me (the piss poor bad) how to do it....ok?

 

Now my next really really irritating rant is this... So while Mr Elitist is fixing to post me his video in this thread while pugging in 178 gear only, my real issue is why in the (PHLUCK) would I bother with these HM's if all they offer is more of the same crap-tacular 192 gear I am already in?

 

The imaginary 'risk vrs reward' is complete bull. There is ZERO and I mean ZERO reason to set foot into the new 60 HM if the reward will be GEAR that is required to complete it in the first place!

 

Now before you say oh you are a bad (which of course I must be eh) please post here the video of YOU in 178 or 186 in a PICK UP GROUP completing both of the NEW hard-modes. Put your ability to show so I can fall down and worship your totally gifted gaming skillz.

 

Ok I am done ranting....

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Joran-Koon

Joran-Koon

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hey man,

 

I feel you may have let what someone said to you in a FP get to you a little to much. There are some parts that are easy and some that are difficult. Some are stronger players others are not. I'm betting one "elitist" joined your pug and started calling shots sparking your post.

 

Truth is, if he really was so Godly, he shouldn't have gone into new HARD content alone. Bring people you trust to test the waters. If you go in alone you knowing accept the badness that is pug groups. Causing a scene from that is simply uncool and unfair to the others trying out the new content as well.

 

All in all, Don't worry about it man. some "elitist" just need their ego boosted off the shoulders of people. Gotta find the other "elitists" who just like the challenge and see a pug run as an opportunity ;)

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mbfhl

mbfhl

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Full 192 eh? 6 pc SB, proper mods/enhs? 'Cause if you have even one comm piece you CANNOT claim "full 192".

 

You know, some people play this game for things other than gear. Some people just enjoy playing the game believe it or not.

Edited by mbfhl
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FlyinSpaghetti

FlyinSpaghetti

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I believe the HM flashpoints should have rewards more in line with SM ops and should be balanced around a minimum 186 gear recommendation. I mean flashpoints lost their appeal after 2.0 hit and token gear didn't drop from them and now 3.0 is here bioware didn't learn their lesson to why queues hardly pop for them anymore. So much time went into making tacticals just so people have something to do when the rewards for the current HM FP just needed to be upped, long goes the days of wiping in LI HM for the chance of getting a columi MH and rakata chest... now people are expected to wipe for massassi and rishi maze trash.

 

At least if not token gear chuck a deceiver piece on the last boss and have a 10 ultimate comm daily.

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Char_Ell

Char_Ell

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Full 192 eh? 6 pc SB, proper mods/enhs? 'Cause if you have even one comm piece you CANNOT claim "full 192".

 

You know, some people play this game for things other than gear. Some people just enjoy playing the game believe it or not.

 

WTH Leprosy? "Full 192" does not mean fully optimized 192. It simply means you have all gear at rating 192. Of course if it's commendations gear then it will be very much less than fully optimized. But since that is what drops in HM flashpoints that's what you wear if you don't run ops for set bonus gear.

 

In any event I think the point here is that the 192 commendations gear drops provided as rewards by the two new level 60 HM flashpoints make them unrewarding to run if your group needs 192 gear to clear them to begin with. I tried Blood Hunt HM last night in groupfinder on my vanguard tank, guardian and sentinel dps, and commando heals. Everyone in the group had 186 commendations gear or better. We gave it 7 attempts on the first boss before we gave up. Our group took too much damage for the healer to keep up with. The two melee dps couldn't take down the adds quick enough and often died before the adds did as the adds were often times inside the fire mines' AoE, requiring the melee dps to stand in the AoE to damage the adds. I'm definitely going to try again, hopefully with at least one ranged dps. But I can see how this could really turn players off from doing hard mode flashpoints. The reward needs to be commensurate with the difficulty. If most players need 192 gear to clear Blood Hunt hard mode and Battle of Rishi hard mode but all they drop is 192 gear as a reward then why bother?

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bdatt

bdatt

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Devs should replace or supplement recommended gear with recommended DPS/HPS (not sure of anything for tanks) since two people on the same gear can differ by a couple thousand dps in performance based on skill and experience. Telling a querer they probably should dummy parse >3500 or whatever for something would be more informative than stating what gear they should have.

 

Lots of other factors of course (eg long set up dot classes vs burst in that first BH fight will make a difference) but perhaps this would change people's expectations when they queue for content.

Edited by bdatt
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kojottt

kojottt

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WTH Leprosy? "Full 192" does not mean fully optimized 192. It simply means you have all gear at rating 192. Of course if it's commendations gear then it will be very much less than fully optimized. But since that is what drops in HM flashpoints that's what you wear if you don't run ops for set bonus gear.

 

In any event I think the point here is that the 192 commendations gear drops provided as rewards by the two new level 60 HM flashpoints make them unrewarding to run if your group needs 192 gear to clear them to begin with. I tried Blood Hunt HM last night in groupfinder on my vanguard tank, guardian and sentinel dps, and commando heals. Everyone in the group had 186 commendations gear or better. We gave it 7 attempts on the first boss before we gave up. Our group took too much damage for the healer to keep up with. The two melee dps couldn't take down the adds quick enough and often died before the adds did as the adds were often times inside the fire mines' AoE, requiring the melee dps to stand in the AoE to damage the adds. I'm definitely going to try again, hopefully with at least one ranged dps. But I can see how this could really turn players off from doing hard mode flashpoints. The reward needs to be commensurate with the difficulty. If most players need 192 gear to clear Blood Hunt hard mode and Battle of Rishi hard mode but all they drop is 192 gear as a reward then why bother?

 

FULL 192 gear actually mean min-maxed 192 gear, so pretty much Best-in-slot gear, 192 comms gear is a massive crap - enhancements are so bad, that i'd rather use DF ones than then. Also full 192 has 6pc set bonus, or whatever works best for certain class/spec.

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Gardimuer

Gardimuer

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FULL 192 gear actually mean min-maxed 192 gear, so pretty much Best-in-slot gear, 192 comms gear is a massive crap - enhancements are so bad, that i'd rather use DF ones than then. Also full 192 has 6pc set bonus, or whatever works best for certain class/spec.

 

I don't know where you learned your jargon. In my neck of the woods "full 192" means exactly what it says: having all 192 rating gear. If he meant full min-maxed 192 he would have said "full min-maxed 192."

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Mowermanx

Mowermanx

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I believe the HM flashpoints should have rewards more in line with SM ops and should be balanced around a minimum 186 gear recommendation. I mean flashpoints lost their appeal after 2.0 hit and token gear didn't drop from them and now 3.0 is here bioware didn't learn their lesson to why queues hardly pop for them anymore. So much time went into making tacticals just so people have something to do when the rewards for the current HM FP just needed to be upped, long goes the days of wiping in LI HM for the chance of getting a columi MH and rakata chest... now people are expected to wipe for massassi and rishi maze trash.

 

At least if not token gear chuck a deceiver piece on the last boss and have a 10 ultimate comm daily.

 

This for sure, I like a challenge, but I also like it when I get a little something for it as well.

For the first time since this games release, I've seen people crying on the fleet to queue for HM FP's, even asking for dps... That says it all imo.

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Kingsbount

Kingsbount

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I want to add a little here.

From MY veiwpoint - back then Hardmode flashpoints was designed to make sure that people at 55 level have content to complete and get their deserved reward. Yeah, it wasn't good. Buts DO we actually have to rip our as*es to get those?

I don't think so.

Also those Flashpoints was balanced for ALL classes.

People was ENJOYING those Flashpoints.

They provided decent challenge, yes. But they WAS FUN!!! :mad:

 

But what do we have now?

 

Absolutely unbalanced Flashpoints that was tested by "some" people that obviously didn't even bother to actually TEST them.

 

Why do i have to gather team and use Teamspek just to complete REGULAR Flashpoint???

Its not even operation - IT"S A FREAKING FLASHPOINT!

 

How can Flashpoint be harder than operation??? Even HM 55 operations are not that hard as 60 Flashpoints!!

 

WHAT WAS YOU THINKING, BIOWARE??? :mad:

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Zipacnaa

Zipacnaa

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We gave it 7 attempts on the first boss before we gave up. Our group took too much damage for the healer to keep up with.

 

They seem to have gone and fallen absolutely head over heels in love with AOE damage since 3.0. At every cross and turn from both new OPS, to the Walker to Manaan to these FP's.

 

I really enjoy a challenge, but lately stuff doesn't feel fun. It just feels like rinse and repeat. PUGs don't stand a chance.

Edited by Zipacnaa
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Torvai

Torvai

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Devs should replace or supplement recommended gear with recommended DPS/HPS (not sure of anything for tanks) since two people on the same gear can differ by a couple thousand dps in performance based on skill and experience. Telling a querer they probably should dummy parse >3500 or whatever for something would be more informative than stating what gear they should have.

While I agree with this, you can't force people to download a third party program and dummy parse in order to complete a friggin FP.

Swtor just needs a internal parsing programm that shows your stats to the whole group, so you see whos draggin your group down, instead of just assuming. Because people just have no idea about what numbers they put out. Just a few examples:

Over on the german forums someone started a thread that the droid boss on korriban is too hard and not beatable because of his softenrage. You need 4.85k group dps in order to beat this boss before the enrage, so 850 as a tank and 2k for either dps, which isn't hard to achieve, especially when you know the fact that a (more or less) 192 min-maxed pyro merc does ~1.9k only autoshotting. Yet the person that started the thread was confident that they had enough damage.

Pre 3.0 i was kicked out of a pug doing bestia 8m story with my fresh 55 sniper doing 2.5k dps in that fight(which isn't good, but enough) by a 40k comm gear merc spamming missile blast:rolleyes:

 

So I really agree with your point, but for this to work swtor needs an internal parsing tool that shows all stats from and to the whole group.

 

 

I want to see this Mr Elitist try to kill Underlurker in the recommended gear too.

Killed Underlurker HM in mostly 186 DF/DP NiM Gear, so what?

Edited by Torvai
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Kingsbount

Kingsbount

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Blood Hunt's first boss in HM is a cluster ****. I ran it with my guildies in Vent and still had a hard time. I'm not an "Elitist", but I'm far from being a scrub and I found that first fight to be challenging......and stupid. I mean, why have HM Operation mechanics in a HM FP?

 

My point exactly.

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Khaleijo

Khaleijo

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To get practise with these kind of mechanics before you run into operations, maybe. And that isn't something new, the HC FP mechanics always had a lot of stuff that you would meet again later in the operations, sometimes the very same mechanic only more dangerous, sometimes a little bit different. I don't know how often i explained operation mechanics to ops newbies by telling them this is like what FP boss A does, only that he combines it with skill Y from boss B from the other FP.

 

The only thing is, that in the current content, there is so much reduced to run out of this void run out of that void and, oh, run out of this too. The variety is lacking and it becomes boring very fast, because a lot of bosses feel like they just have another name and look but aren't really that different in the end. And as a melee all these voids are not really bringing fun... having to move is ok, but sometimes it feels like being on the run constantly... on the other hand, this is training for a lot of the current operation bosses too... :rolleyes:

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