Immortal spec update...

[Preventer_Wind]

well i havent run any parses or like that, but i really dont feel that much different in terms of sheer dps.

the only time that my dps as immortal made sense was when i decided to just go nuts and put on all my vengeance spec gears on, and ended up doing more damage than any other vengeance juggs in the team in reg matches (4 vs 4).

i have a bit of mixed feeling about this so called "buff". it feels more like a little tweaking, while not a huge improvement.

 

One thing i absolutely love though, is that retaliation is finally off the GCD... i wish this was true for all other specs...

[adproduction]

well i havent run any parses or like that, but i really dont feel that much different in terms of sheer dps.

the only time that my dps as immortal made sense was when i decided to just go nuts and put on all my vengeance spec gears on, and ended up doing more damage than any other vengeance juggs in the team in reg matches (4 vs 4).

i have a bit of mixed feeling about this so called "buff". it feels more like a little tweaking, while not a huge improvement.

 

One thing i absolutely love though, is that retaliation is finally off the GCD... i wish this was true for all other specs...

 

Yeah, I have been told that dps immortal sucks yet, my dps immortal kicking as so far both PvE and PvP wise.

[llayles]

Immortal DPS. My brain is full of wat.

[adproduction]

Immortal DPS. My brain is full of wat.

 

Don't knock it until you try it.

[llayles]

Don't knock it until you try it.

 

The only thing I can imagine this being useful for is DPS who have a bad habit of dying otherwise.

[adproduction]

The only thing I can imagine this being useful for is DPS who have a bad habit of dying otherwise.

 

Never had any of those issues with my 55 sith, my other 39 sith, and level 30 Jedi. PvE wise it makes soloing much more better than full tank with full tank gear.

Edited February 12, 2015 by adproduction

[Qaoz]

Lunge has been redesigned: While Soresu Form is active, Riposte is off the global cooldown and costs 1 less focus.

 

This makes me so happy I could cry. Tanking no longer feels clunky as ****.

[Preventer_Wind]

This makes me so happy I could cry. Tanking no longer feels clunky as ****.

 

ikr? dat smooth rotation is sexy as hell.

good thing? Retaliation/Reposte actually does some damage now on top of that

[JBlazeATX]

How do you gear for this? Edited February 13, 2015 by JBlazeATX

[adproduction]

How do you gear for this?

 

If you mean dps tank, it is the same as a gearing a rage or vengeance sith juggernaut. Critical, surge, alacrity, and might modifications.

[Xeraz]

Yeah, I have been told that dps immortal sucks yet, my dps immortal kicking as so far both PvE and PvP wise.

 

I am quoting this in agreement. My brother was running Vengeance with Soretsu in dps gear and made the switch over to Immortal with dps gear this patch. It is noticeably more effective and viable in all formats of pvp.

[Orion_Lighter]

I've noticed a problem with holding agro and Vicious Throw.

 

I was in an FP in a mix of 192/198 gear with under lvl 60 party members, yet I couldn't hold on to agro to save my life (well, their lives). Ended up soloing Jos and Valk.

 

And Vicious Throw gets the "special move" border highlight, but I can no longer use it with over 30% health.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Orion_Lighter
corrections

[OMGITSJAD]

I've noticed a problem with holding agro and Vicious Throw.

 

I was in an FP in a mix of 192/198 gear with under lvl 60 party members, yet I couldn't hold on to agro to save my life (well, their lives). Ended up soloing Jos and Valk.

 

And Vicious Throw gets the "special move" border highlight, but I can no longer use it with over 30% health.

 

1) taunts and guard. taunts and guard.

2) you aren't supposed to be able to. it's being lit up because you gained 3 stacks of Revenge.

[Orion_Lighter]

1) Guard was already on the highest DPS, even the healer was pulling agro from me. And the single target taunt would only work 1 out of 3 times, whilst the area taunt would only keep them on me for about 15 seconds.

 

2) Sorry got my Rage spec messed up with my Immortal spec.

 

 

1) taunts and guard. taunts and guard.

2) you aren't supposed to be able to. it's being lit up because you gained 3 stacks of Revenge.

[Luckygunslinger]

1) Guard was already on the highest DPS, even the healer was pulling agro from me. And the single target taunt would only work 1 out of 3 times, whilst the area taunt would only keep them on me for about 15 seconds.

 

2) Sorry got my Rage spec messed up with my Immortal spec.

 

Aggro issues lie into 3 things with Immortal.

 

• Guard / Taunt
  
• Saber Reflect Timing
  
• Opening Rotation
  

 

Guard was already on the highest DPS which is fair enough at least you're not guarding Healers. Keep in mind I believe Jos and Volk may have an aggro dump but I only solo them to level, I don't do flashpoints. Secondly, you should always be specced into Intimidating Presence, there is no excuse ever to not do so. From the instant you take damage, you pop it to get about 12k Threat on the targets who have dealt damage to you. Lastly, your opening rotation may be lack luster in threat generation, things like Saber Throw, Vicious Slash and Aegis Assault have no room in the early stages of the opener.

[Orion_Lighter]

I understand all your points, and I already agree with all of them though, I'm not a new a new Jugg Tank (I've done HM 60 FPs and Ops with her with successuu).

 

What I'm wondering is if since the most recent patch, did they diminish the agro gains from any of the moves? And proper opening rotation or not, people in 168-178 gear should not be able to steal single target focus from a tank in 192/198 gear, no? As well, I'm finding that I now have to pop my bankhand/SR to maintain focus in every fight that lasts longer than 20 seconds regardless of if it's a boss or not, which I've never had to do before.

[Methoxa]

Actually they buffed tps of a juggernaut by putting ret off gcd + they increased damage of force scream and dmg of smash. My tps increased from 4.5k tps to 5.1k tps. Dps increased by nearly 200dps. With force scream doing better damage now, you should consider using it as your third gcd .

 

i.e. Crushing blow+ret+backhand+force scream

 

Do not use saber throw or Aegis assault in your opening, they generate less tps and will eventually make you loose aggro. For progression boss rotations you might wanna try this :

 

<Enrage> --> Leap-->Taunt-->Crushing Blow-->Retaliation-->Force Scream-->Smash-->Aoe taunt-->Saber reflect-->Bachhand-->Aegis Assault-->Force Choke-->Vicious Slash-->Taunt-->Ravage-->Crushing Blow-->Retaliation.

 

Use retaliation whenever it is useable.

Have your 4p setbonus in order to use triple taunt rotations. That means single taunt--6seconds of rotation-->Aoe Taunt-->6seconds of rotation-->Single taunt-->6seconds of rotation.

 

Usually i dont need any taunts but in order to maintain safety i use the first two. After that you could basically spam auto hits or go afk and have a snack.

 

people in 168-178 gear should not be able to steal single target focus from a tank in 192/198 gear, no?

 

No they shouldn't, but that it happens to you it doesn't mean it is the deveopers fault.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Methoxa

[Baalzamon]

If you mean dps tank, it is the same as a gearing a rage or vengeance sith juggernaut. Critical, surge, alacrity, and might modifications.

 

You also using Focus for offhand or Shield for a dps tank?

[Orion_Lighter]

Thank you for the opener lesson and I appreciate it, though I've already learned all that from Dulfy. And I was asking the question to see if it was affecting anyone else, a fact-finding mission if you will.

 

Your departing quip amused me. If I'm doing all the same things that I did before the update, and they're no longer working, you're stating that's my fault and no one else's. I totally agree with you, but aren't I allowed as a paying customer to ask the question?

 

Guess I'm just going to stick to PT tanking.

 

Actually they buffed tps of a juggernaut by putting ret off gcd + they increased damage of force scream and dmg of smash. My tps increased from 4.5k tps to 5.1k tps. Dps increased by nearly 200dps. With force scream doing better damage now, you should consider using it as your third gcd .

 

i.e. Crushing blow+ret+backhand+force scream

 

Do not use saber throw or Aegis assault in your opening, they generate less tps and will eventually make you loose aggro. For progression boss rotations you might wanna try this :

 

<Enrage> --> Leap-->Taunt-->Crushing Blow-->Retaliation-->Force Scream-->Smash-->Aoe taunt-->Saber reflect-->Bachhand-->Aegis Assault-->Force Choke-->Vicious Slash-->Taunt-->Ravage-->Crushing Blow-->Retaliation.

 

Use retaliation whenever it is useable.

Have your 4p setbonus in order to use triple taunt rotations. That means single taunt--6seconds of rotation-->Aoe Taunt-->6seconds of rotation-->Single taunt-->6seconds of rotation.

 

Usually i dont need any taunts but in order to maintain safety i use the first two. After that you could basically spam auto hits or go afk and have a snack.

 

 

 

No they shouldn't, but that it happens to you it doesn't mean it is the deveopers fault.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Orion_Lighter

[adproduction]

You also using Focus for offhand or Shield for a dps tank?

 

Shield for now.

[llayles]

<Enrage> --> Leap-->Taunt-->

 

omg lal

[Methoxa]

Ensures you'll have aggro after the precasts of the dps hit the boss. In our raid dps basically open the fight. If you raid manages it in any other way you might not need to taunt. Also you dont need to taunt when dpsers are not doing more than 4k dps. But the rotation is individually set up for my raidgrp.

 

The first taunt is not used to maximize aggro but to make sure boss attacks me and not a dps. Any critic welcome.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Methoxa

[Marb]

omg lal

 

Taunt generates very little threat early in the fight. Taunting immediately after crushing blow gives you about 1500 more threat than if you were to lead with taunt. For comparison, a single vicious slash is about 3500 threat. With the set bonus you can lock in the boss's attention from the start, and for enough time afterwards while you generate threat as normal. This allows dps to pre-cast and even initiate the fight, getting in some more dps.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Marb

[WasteGate]

I am quoting this in agreement. My brother was running Vengeance with Soretsu in dps gear and made the switch over to Immortal with dps gear this patch. It is noticeably more effective and viable in all formats of pvp.

 

Stupid question but is he still running in Soresu Form with DPS gear on as Immortal?

[namesaretough]

Taunt generates very little threat early in the fight. Taunting immediately after crushing blow gives you about 1500 more threat than if you were to lead with taunt. For comparison, a single vicious slash is about 3500 threat. With the set bonus you can lock in the boss's attention from the start, and for enough time afterwards while you generate threat as normal. This allows dps to pre-cast and even initiate the fight, getting in some more dps.

With the new set bonuses you can open with a taunt and not worry about a thing. Technically if you really want to maximize threat you'd save taunt for after crushing/retal/reflect/BH/(maybe scream depending on the dps comp) and you can still hold over pretty much any dps with that opener until the taunt (except maybe precasts that hit before you get reflect off, but you'll just pull it back with reflect+crushing+retal if in melee), but it's barely worth the effort trying to open with a max threat rotation at this point. It's a bit disappointing they took that part of thinking about a fight out of the game, but it only mattered in the first 4-5 GCDs anyways so meh.

Edited February 20, 2015 by namesaretough