Question based on Disney Canon change + Mandos

[Ghisallo]

Okay am I wrong in the following thought? New Canon is the movies, 2 cartoons and works released AFTER April 2014. To my mind this means Canon Mandos are not a hodge podge racial group of Warriors who are to a large extent nomadic. They are instead either a homogeneous Human, or near Human, society with a "home world" organized gov't with accompanying bureaucracy etc.

 

At least that's how I would see it atm.

[DarthDymond]

Okay am I wrong in the following thought? New Canon is the movies, 2 cartoons and works released AFTER April 2014. To my mind this means Canon Mandos are not a hodge podge racial group of Warriors who are to a large extent nomadic. They are instead either a homogeneous Human, or near Human, society with a "home world" organized gov't with accompanying bureaucracy etc.

 

At least that's how I would see it atm.

The only Mandos we have seen in Canon have been human, and there is (or was) definitely an established world government in place on the Mandalorian homeworld: Mandalore. (Satine was also the 'Duchess' of the planet, so there may be some form of nobility / peerage in the society, but as Naboo shows that's not certain - titles that we would consider hereditary here on Earth are sometimes used as elected positions in the SW Universe.)

 

That being said I don't believe there has been any dialogue or references in Canon that establish that those are the only Mandos in existence.

 

They could add in alien hodge-podge elements later without contradicting anything, same with if they wanted to introduce nomadic tribes apart from the population living on Mandalore & the Death Watch. (Given that Satine was on the run for her life when younger and the politics of the Death Watch, its not even that much of a stretch - there is definitely a sense of the society being in flux.)

 

But, yes, the impression that the current established Canon gives is that they are a human society, with a prominent warrior heritage, from the planet Mandalore (which during the early Clone Wars had an organized government and bureaucracy, possibly with some system of royalty / nobility).

 

(Side Note on Canon Mandos: I'm really trying to decide if the bird-of-prey vibe from Sabine's Mando helmet is going to end up tying her to Bo-Katan and her Nite Owls, or if it's just evocative of the starbird symbol that will end up being the Rebel icon.)

Edited February 12, 2015 by DarthDymond

[TalonVII]

Meh, I hated what they did with Mandalore and the mandalorian culture with Clone Wars.

 

Basically took a dump on everything we knew from books and movies.

[CassusVerda]

Meh, I hated what they did with Mandalore and the mandalorian culture with Clone Wars.

 

Basically took a dump on everything we knew from books and movies.

 

Not the only one my friend.

[Ghisallo]

Meh, I hated what they did with Mandalore and the mandalorian culture with Clone Wars.

 

Basically took a dump on everything we knew from books and movies.

 

From books yes...movies...not so much. All we knew from the Movies (ultimately) is that Jango Fett was a Mandalorian Bounty Hunter and thus his clone would be considered one as well (Boba Fett).

 

As far as film what a Mandalorian was didn't get explained and since the Clone Wars stories (until the sale) were cleared directly by Lucas it seems this is Lucas' vision for them. So blame Lucas for yet again changing things.

 

Lucas' vision of the Mandos has changed repeatedly over the years (as has his vision of where the power of the Force comes from, that Vader and Anakin are the same person, that Jabba the Hutt is now a Giant slug rather than a humanoid...I could go one but you get the idea... George's definition of Canon is a bit more loose than Webster's)

 

Where am I going with this? I remember back after Episode V first came out how Boba Fett was described as "a bounty hunter who wears the armor of a Mandalorian Warrior" thus inferring he was not a Mando. If I remember right it even said something to the effect of "no one knows how he came by the armor of the Warriors who once fought the republic.". So again Boba Fett is not a Mando. BUT now he is.

 

Then we add more confusion on top of what George created...the Mandos as depicted in the comic series featuring Exar Kun, Ulic, Naomi Sunrider etc, are of the same non-human race. Then later it becomes a hodge lodge of races. If you really look at ALL of the books in the EU, and even what Lucas called canon, there has been nothing consistent enough (at least imo) to allow us to say "it changes all we knew" but what we knew was a confused mess.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Beniboybling]

To be fair the TCW Mandos are surprisingly compatible with existing EU lore save some Traviss books.

[josephinec]

Ah, yes, one of my favorite things to get my dark side boiling....

 

TCW's "Mandalorians", while they don't completely contradict Republic Commando, don't exactly back the books up either. I've read most of the books, and never does Kal or Walon mention pacifists(as far as I can remember), but they sure do mention the Death Watch for what they are: terrorists. What really rustled my jimmies was that we had Satine's pacifists and Viszla's terrorists, but no Mandalorians like Clan Skirata: warriors who defended their families to the death and welcomed aliens(remember Laseema?). Never do any of them try to save the clones, or stop the accelerated aging, or adopt them like Kal did. And of course, no lady Jedi ever flirted with a clone(yes, I know Etain and Darman probably couldn't have appeared in the show because it wouldn't be fit for a kid's show).

 

I stopped watching TCW because it was too....mainstream and pro-Jedi for me? I suppose that's why my Jedi, in my headcanons, are more tolerant and pragmatic, because if I try writing "typical" Jedi, I get angry.

[Ghisallo]

Well Lucas' Canon always was Pro-Jedi. The Jedi are white hats, the Sith Black hats...you only see the Jedi wearing gray hats in the EU, and in Luke arguably, but he was to a fair extent self trained.

[Beniboybling]

I think TCW is appopriately pro-Jedi, them being the heroes, but episodes like Hidden Enemy, Voyage of Temptation, Heroes on Both Sides and most significantly the entire Ahsoka arc, and to an extent the Yoda arc, are more critical.

[StarSquirrel]

As far as what Canon currently states about the Mandalorians,

 

We know the Mandalorians have a warrior heritage devoted to honor and warfare thanks to the Death Watch stories in TCW.

 

We also know they are Mercenaries (Jango/Boba Fett)

 

And we know that the government on the surface of Mandalore is not the end-all be-all of Mandalorian society (Night Owls, Death Watch, Concordia etc...)

 

And to top it all off, Sabine Wren gives us some circumstantial evidence that the "New Mandalorian" ideology might have been eradicated leaving the warrior-like society in its stead as we see with the rise of Almec to be Prime Minister under the Death Watch. Without Maul, Death Watch could actually then enforce its view of Mandalorian society without some alternative agenda.

 

So not as interesting or well-told as the Mandalorian's Legends story. Also Beni, the Traviss books conflict because they actually provide some insight into Mandalorian culture, something we had almost none of prior to her books. Still if you're willing to bend your imagination a bit in order to get a better story, it can still fit...

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't think Jango and Boba are Mandalorians anymore in the new canon, I don't recall ever any mention of them being such just that they were bounty hunters in just the movies and novelization of movies.

 

Unless of course TCW mentioned it.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Jarons]

I don't think Jango and Boba are Mandalorians anymore in the new canon, I don't recall ever any mention of them being such just that they were bounty hunters in just the movies and novelization of movies.

 

Unless of course TCW mentioned it.

I believed in one of the earlier episodes of TCW when Obi-wan first went to Mandolare he asked someone it might have been Pre visla but I can't remember have to watch it on Netflix again but it was hinted but not confirm that Jango was a mandalorian.He said that he could have been someone who just wear our armor and not a true mandalorian.

 

Edit: It was season 2 episode 12 When Obi-wan meet prime minster Obi-wan asked if the mandalorians were amassing a army for the separatist .The Prime minster Almec claim that our violent past is behind us and all of our warriors clans were exiled to the moon of Concordia were they have long died out.Then Obi-wan mentioned the bounty hunter Jango Fett who wore Manalorian armor and the Almec responded that Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter and how he acquired that armor is beyond me. So it could be he is a mandalorian .

Edited February 19, 2015 by Jarons

[StarSquirrel]

I don't think Jango and Boba are Mandalorians anymore in the new canon, I don't recall ever any mention of them being such just that they were bounty hunters in just the movies and novelization of movies.

 

Unless of course TCW mentioned it.

 

I know we can tie them by reasonable assumption to Mandalorians considering they're wearing the same armor.

 

Now with the pathetic job TCW did with Boba's character I had completely forgotten about how they'd changed his origin. That said, I would actually (now that I think about it) agree that even in the EU he really wasn't a Mando until later in life so you got me there.

 

Now the wiki cites a new line of Hasbro toys under the Rebels banner as being a direct source that Jango is Mandalorian. I haven't seen the source to confirm it though the websites that have info on it post-2014 International Toy Fair seem to confirm it. That said, I think in TCWs someone (Almec I think) tries to make him out to be a pretender though its the "New Mandalorians" and so I don't put much stock in their definition of a mandalorian (considering they aren't). Also after reading the talk page for Jango I'm leaning more towards the dismissal being purely a product of the "New Mandalorians" not recognizing someone outside their sphere.

 

So I can't point directly to an in-universe source but due to the lack of info in the New Canon about Jango, it seem the little info we do have suggests he is or could likely be a Mandalorian.

Edited February 19, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Wolfninjajedi]

I believed in one of the earlier episodes of TCW when Obi-wan first went to Mandolare he asked someone it might have been Pre visla but I can't remember have to watch it on Netflix again but it was hinted but not confirm that Jango was a mandalorian.He said that he could have been someone who just wear our armor and not a true mandalorian.

 

Seems about right considering the movie or novelization doesn't say he is one, so if that's true, then he could have just gotten the armor and worn it.

 

But if ya watch it again, would like to know.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I know we can tie them by reasonable assumption to Mandalorians considering they're wearing the same armor.

 

What armor? We don't know if the armor Jango/Boba wore are Mandalorian armor in the new canon, the movies nor novels say that it's mandalorian armor, could just be armor...and even if they are wearing said Mando armor, doesn't make them such.

 

I guess we shall see what is what. Personally though, I think the 2 are fine as just bounty hunters. I don't really see how being Mando changes really anything about them for the new EU anyway.

 

If nothing else, this makes Jango being able to put up a decent fight against Obi-Wan all the greater and kill Coleman, because he was just a regular bounty hunter not a Mando.

 

I guess we shall see, perhaps the #2 of Darth Vader will shed some light on Boba for the new EU since he's appearing next issue.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[VitalityPrime]

I stopped watching TCW because it was too....mainstream and pro-Jedi for me? I suppose that's why my Jedi, in my headcanons, are more tolerant and pragmatic, because if I try writing "typical" Jedi, I get angry.

 

"Pro-Jedi" ???

 

TCW showed all the flaws in the Jedi.

 

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

 

That quote perfectly sums up the Jedi Council depicted in TCW.

Edited February 19, 2015 by VitalityPrime

[Jarons]

Seems about right considering the movie or novelization doesn't say he is one, so if that's true, then he could have just gotten the armor and worn it.

 

But if ya watch it again, would like to know.

Wolf check my edit it the info is their.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wolf check my edit it the info is their.

 

I see, but still as you said, Jango was just a common bounty hunter and he could have just gotten it. But I'm sure we'll get more clear confirmation as to if they are or not as the new EU is brought it.

 

Though again, Boba/Jango just being regular bounty hunters is alright with me for the new EU. It just makes what Jango did in EP 2 all the more better, considering he doesn't have the Mando background.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

What armor? We don't know if the armor Jango/Boba wore are Mandalorian armor in the new canon, the movies nor novels say that it's mandalorian armor, could just be armor...and even if they are wearing said Mando armor, doesn't make them such.

Wolf you have to be joking at this point.

 

Just look at a picture of Jango, then of any TCW Mandalorian in armor, and back and forth till my point is made.

 

You can do better than that Wolf. Now the second point is actually what I got into in my whole response. Perhaps you should actually read it instead of pulling the one sentence you take issue with.

 

With the information we have, there is no definitive way to say if Jango was a Mandalorian or not. I can provide evidence that (when taken together) makes a case for him being a Mandalorian, but I can just as easily make one against. Both are circumstantial and have points against them so neither can be confirmed as correct.

 

The only factual answer then is, "we don't know" and I'm patient enough to wait a few years to see what they do with his character.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wolf you have to be joking at this point.

 

Just look at a picture of Jango, then of any TCW Mandalorian in armor, and back and forth till my point is made.

 

You can do better than that Wolf. Now the second point is actually what I got into in my whole response. Perhaps you should actually read it instead of pulling the one sentence you take issue with.

 

With the information we have, there is no definitive way to say if Jango was a Mandalorian or not. I can provide evidence that (when taken together) makes a case for him being a Mandalorian, but I can just as easily make one against. Both are circumstantial and have points against them so neither can be confirmed as correct.

 

The only factual answer then is, "we don't know" and I'm patient enough to wait a few years to see what they do with his character.

 

Right we don't know, which is what I said and I never said that his armor wasn't Mando, it could be, it also couldn't be, who knows. Just gonna have to wait n see what the new EU comes.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[TalonVII]

Besides the whole dump on the mandos I will never forgive TCW for messing up the story of: Barriss Offee. In the EU books she was a kind woman, who spent her time as a healer. Read the 2 books about the fight on Dongar for that plant that was better than Bacta. She spent her times in RIMSOOs HEALING clone troopers.

 

The show turns heel on her and makes her fall to the DARK SIDE? Umm no..

 

That more than the dump on the Mandalorain side really ticked me off about TCW. Completely shat upon Barriss's story.

[kadfett]

I am a firm believer in the traviss books (oya manda!) but I think that jango IS a mando whereas boba is not and even in the books where he gets a granddaughter and trains jaina he still isint in a sense. also who likes jaina/jacen over whatever Disney comes up with?

[LordRaeth]

Doesn't one of the kominons refer to him as a Mandalorian in the movies or do they just call him a bounty hunter as well?

[mudmobile]

Okay am I wrong in the following thought? New Canon is the movies, 2 cartoons and works released AFTER April 2014. To my mind this means Canon Mandos are not a hodge podge racial group of Warriors who are to a large extent nomadic. They are instead either a homogeneous Human, or near Human, society with a "home world" organized gov't with accompanying bureaucracy etc.

 

At least that's how I would see it atm.

You are wrong in saying its the "new canon".

 

No matter what fans wanted to think canon was never anything more than the movies and then the Clone Wars cartoon series. This would be why everything else had its own classification, Extended Universe (EU).

 

With Disney's purchase of SW they decided to make it fully clear in writing what was always the true view point of Lucas. Lucas had made many statements to this but for some reason never chose to make it so defined.

 

 

 

 

As for the Mandos I don't see the story of them as fully written for canon yet, both TCW and TOR could be true down the road. TCW is just the canon of that time period in their history, nothing more.

[t-darko]

... All we knew from the Movies (ultimately) is that Jango Fett was a Mandalorian Bounty Hunter and thus his clone would be considered one as well (Boba Fett).

... .

 

In what we now know as Legend Canon 'Mandalorian' was a cultural affiliation rather than a Species. So the real first issue would be - What defines a 'Mandalorian' in the New Canon?