Do I suck or is ranked gear in unranked WZs absurdly OP?

[Pherdnut]

When I was 50ish, I was having fun. At the end of the week when most ranked players are done farming for comms in unranked, win or lose, I have fun. But in the first half of the week or so I'm regularly getting stomped and swatted like a fly. Like several games in a row. I go from being competitive against players who seem like they know what they're doing and deadly against players who don't seem like they know anything to completely ineffectual and dead in the span of maybe 3 seconds once I attract attention no matter what I try to do in I'd say 4/5 games. I've got all but two pieces of PVP 60th level gear.

 

I don't like this. It makes me want to stop. Why on earth did they give top tier players a good reason to come down to lower-tier games and stomp everybody en masse every time there's a new weekly to cash in on? There's nothing to learn from this and no fun to be had, so what is the point?

[Lhancelot]

When I was 50ish, I was having fun. At the end of the week when most ranked players are done farming for comms in unranked, win or lose, I have fun. But in the first half of the week or so I'm regularly getting stomped and swatted like a fly. Like several games in a row. I go from being competitive against players who seem like they know what they're doing and deadly against players who don't seem like they know anything to completely ineffectual and dead in the span of maybe 3 seconds once I attract attention no matter what I try to do in I'd say 4/5 games. I've got all but two pieces of PVP 60th level gear.

 

I don't like this. It makes me want to stop. Why on earth did they give top tier players a good reason to come down to lower-tier games and stomp everybody en masse every time there's a new weekly to cash in on? There's nothing to learn from this and no fun to be had, so what is the point?

 

Well, it was fun when you were in your 50s because mids pvp is broken badly. 50s in mids are very powerful compared to the lower lvls.

 

As for ranked gears being OP'd in regs, that's not really the case either. The difference between a fully suited entry level pvp set compared to a ranked pvp set is not that big. In fact, to give you an idea about ranked, people can enter ranked with the entry lvl pvp gears. It's important to get augments though, for every piece of gear.

 

Most people save up comms in their 50s and then try to get a full set of the entry level pvp gears, just so you know for future reference if you ever level another toon.

 

You should notice that you have decent survivability by now, with 10 pieces of pvp gears on...if....you have the stuff outfitted with augments. That's important. Augments will help quite a bit. If you are poor, then you can go with cheaper augs... But it would help you out a lot imo.

 

When you fight players who are in full suits of ranked pvp gears, not only do they have an advantage (although it's slight as I said before) in gears, they also have a ton more experience than you do in pvp. I would guess it's more of a matter of you just being newer to pvp and not as "good" as these experienced pvpers are.

 

Try to get a full suit of entry level pvp gears, and then stick augs in if you have not yet. See if that helps. Then, just grind out your ranked pvp gears, in time you will be fully suited and also by then you will be more experienced.

[Mister_Ewing]

It's really just a minor improvement over unranked gear, maybe you're just hitting premades.

 

also sir lance is right about 50s roflstompin lower lvls in mid tier, just inspect their gear & see how their weapon dmg is 1/2 of a 50ish lvl player along with the difference in hp; also the various disciplines crit chance & surge bonuses to main rotational abilities is high up the tree etc

 

mids are broken, this is well known

Edited February 12, 2015 by Mister_Ewing

[teclado]

Yeah, there is not a huge difference between exhumed and dark reaver. I second the idea that you just have been running into premades. It happens to everybody who queues solo. Get some friends that you know are decent players and queue with them.

[FourPawnBenoni]

Make sure your'e bolstered to 2018

 

By default your shells will be bolstered to a 178 Fortitude

[NikSunrider]

I hesitate to say "suck" because I have not seen you fight, but, here's the quick rundown.

 

Unranked gear is 168, ranked gear is 174. Out of the box, the difference is not big. It is like a Verpine and Kell Dragon set of gear in PvE.

 

The problem is that "PvP Vets" rarely do ranked in out-of-the-box gear.

 

Just recently I got off my rear end and got my Vanguard his DPS set. It came with Crit and Alacrity on 6 piecies.

Now, if I came up against another DPS vanguard, same spec, same skill, same gear rating, but with properly minmaxed gear...I'd lose. Probably not horribly, but lose.

 

To be competitive, you need: 2018 expertise (for max PvP DR and boost), +Expertise crystals (obviously), augments, and prpoper gear.

 

Augments are very important. If you have a set of power augments, apart from ridiculous damage boost, they will also net you close to 3k health. (big difference right there).

 

Proper gear means at least 6 pieces of proper set bonus gear (don't use sage healer gear on a shadow DPS) and proper mods/enhancements. They are a bítch to get, especially the ranked ones, but hey, if you PvP enough to want to do well in ranked, you'll get it, I certainly did.

 

ONce you have eradicated useless stats like Alacrity on Vangaurds, augged yourself, and have expertise, it is only a matter of teamwork and skill.

 

PvP rotations differ from PvE rotations, and situations are relatively different.

There are less "mechanics" to watch for, but you need to avoid "stupid" just as much as in PvE, and you need to interrupt a lot more. Also know what to interrupt, don't be that Marauder I must have killed 9 times yesterday...he tried to interreupt Diagnostic Scan.

 

Also, PvE DPS is differnet form PvP DPS. IN PvE, everyone is mashing buttons and trying to do their own thing while staying alive; in PvP it is all about teamwork. Even if the team is not a true premade, competant combatants will use Focus Target (the target frame from your UI editor and preferences) to focus on one target.

 

Usually groups Focus-Target their "leader" and constantly acquire his target.

 

Also, premades will be using team buffs. For instance, a Shadow/Sage in Serenity/Balance will drop their Force in Balance to increase DoTs of teammates, Commandos, Vanguards, and everyone and their grandmother will reduce your armor for the team....lots of options really.

 

IN addition to that, experienced players often use medpecs, stims, adrenals and grenades in PvP, which is another big advantage.

 

Also, the 60 league is different to midbie and 50s. At high midbie, you are above most of the other players, and might even have a gear advantage (if you have the old PvP gear) whereas at 60, everyone is usually stronger than you.

 

TL;DR: You need full expertise (2018), minmaxed/optimized gear, augments to survive.

You are getting owned because the other guys have better gear, goodies and work together.

 

Hope that helps.

 

P.S: A fun, but slightly irrelevant Story regarding PvP competence.

 

 

So, one day I was bored and rolled a Commando.

Levelled the guy to 13, put him in Gunnery, crafted him some green mods with cybertech and queued up.

 

I landed in a Republic Wargame Hypergate (at the imp spawn), and for some inexplicable reason, we were losing. Not badly, but losing. With 1 minute on the clock in Round 4, I rambled over to their pylon.

 

The guy on guard was a lvl 17 Sage.

 

I have to say, did something stupid. I walked out in the open, picked up the Damage Boost, got as quickly as I could into range, charged up a Grav Round, and smacked him with an Explosive Round.

 

Nothing happened for three seconds as I let fly with Full Auto, and then a message came over Global Chat. This being a wargame, I saw it.

I will provide the quote for your amusement verbatim:

 

| "Um, guys, wat 2 do?"

 

I have to say, I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

 

I am fairly certain I killed that guy simply by rolling my face the keyboard....with 100% of my own health.

 

Needless to say, I capped it before the other team figured to send reinforcements and we won, but to this day, I still cannot understand how you can have a Body Type 3 commando, in bright orange armor with a big-@ss cannon, charging a channel, and not kill him.

Worse, just stand there and ask "Um, what 2 do?"

 

Some stupid cannot be helped, I guess.

 

 

[johanlofdahl]

Okay I am going to try to explain this easy.

 

Average Joe has gear 100% stats, when you play your 50's in midbracket your gear was like 180%. So in reality you were absurdly overpowered against most opponents. This is where you had your "fun".

 

Now you level to 60 and stat wise if Average Joe has 100% but with full ranked, players have 105-110%. So you are used to ROFLMAO-stomping people and now gear-wise it is much more balanced between Exhumed and Dark Reaver.

 

But this 5-10% gear difference is what you are complaning about when in fact you had almost 100% more gear stats in midbies bracket?

[Bobbafatter]

Yes, the SWTOR PvP is extremely gear dependent. Count on 50 % increase in dps if you compare non-augmented exhumed to augmented dark reaver. On top of that there is also a rather massive increase in survivability.

 

Gear is a bad's only chance to shine so it appears very popular with the self-proclaimed "pros" to have it this way ...

Edited February 12, 2015 by Bobbafatter

[foxmob]

min/max'd dark reaver is going to be significantly different from stock exhumed gear.

 

pve gear that only relies on bolster is going to be infinitely worse than the former.

 

I'm not sure if that answers your question or not, but there is not a large gap between DR and Ex. Assuming you are aug'd and geared (Ex) properly, I'd say the issue is either

 

 

• L2P - you don't know what DCDs to use and when to use them against particular classes, or...
  
• you're running into counter classes.
  

 

 

the aforementioned premades variable is an issue as well. 4 great players on the other team are usually going to make your experience painful on your side. but making your own premade only works if you and your group mates are good. it's actually a bad thing if you're mediocre or worse (not that anyone ever admits the latter about themselves) cuz you'd eat up half the team slots with poor players. lol

Edited February 12, 2015 by foxmob

[clearsighted]

Yes, the SWTOR PvP is extremely gear dependent. Count on 50 % increase in dps if you compare non-augmented exhumed to augmented dark reaver. On top of that there is also a rather massive increase in survivability.

 

Gear is a bad's only chance to shine so it appears very popular with the self-proclaimed "pros" to have it this way ...

 

No. This is not even remotely the case. PvP in swtor is not nearly as gear dependent as most games.

 

You can pvp at level 60 in 162s, green 168s, and have 1900+ expertise, and be very close to exhumed gear, which is 168 with 2018 expertise. There are many, many variables in PvP that can completely wipe out the difference. That's how fractional it is.

 

The difference between exhumed 168s and dark reaver 174s is essentially amounts to the difference between someone using a stats stim vs someone not using a stim. Upgrading from a 168 earpiece to a 174, you're looking at +7 to +15ish across the relevant stats. The difference between a 168 offhand dps focus and a 174 offhand dps focus is about 71 force power. For comparison sake, the difference between an offhand DPS focus and an offhand shield is like ~481 force power.

 

A completely geared out, ~174 ranked player, against someone in an exhumed 168 set, has less than a 3-5% advantage. A single basic attack from any class would wipe out that advantage. Provided someone played at 60 with pve gear that was bolstered to at least 1950+ expertise, the advantage would be more like ~10%.

 

The truth is, the people who play that much pvp, to get ~174 at level 60, having done so against a much higher level of competition, are simply better players. But it doesn't mean you suck. It means you'll be just as good by the time you have pvp'd as much as them.

 

Unless you're the kwisatz haderach of swtor pvp, it just takes a few weeks at level 60 to adapt. There's no excuse, whatsoever, even freshly levelled to 60, to not have max or nearly max expertise from bolster.

 

min/max'd dark reaver is going to be significantly different from stock exhumed gear.

 

pve gear that only relies on bolster is going to be infinitely worse than the former.

 

This is an absurd exaggeration. Current Swtor pvp armor is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Where augmentations, modding (even using PvE mods) was a big deal, and would make a huge difference. You're given blue fortitude augmentations from Bolster in every slot, free of charge. There's only a difference of 6 pts of endurance and 4 pts of power between blue and purple fortitude augments.

 

Most of the current pvp gear stats have a good stat spread. Some people like a little less accuracy, or alacrity, or crit. But it's quite arguable just how more efficient you are. There's good arguments to be made, for example, that the Dark Reaver vindicator set is very nearly perfect, stat wise, for a vengeance jugg, and that having ~5% alacrity on any class is a much bigger boost than most realize.

 

Dark Reaver vindicator pretty much gives you ~95% accuracy, 25% crit, 70% surge and 5% alacrity. Most other classes are similar in their DPS slots. Yes, some people like to tweak those numbers 4-5% up or down, but it is not an 'infinite distance' of efficiency.

 

CONCLUSION: The two biggest difference makers are A) Having PvP relics vs not having PvP relics and B) being in a premade vs not being in a premade. Everything else, provided you're smart enough to maximize bolster expertise, is within a very, very narrow range of each other. Augments used to be a big deal, but now are not thanks to the extremely generous bolster.

Edited February 12, 2015 by clearsighted

[Mister_Ewing]

Unless you're the kwisatz haderach of swtor pvp...

 

dunie

Subakh ul kuhar?

[NikSunrider]

{Crap originally posted by Clearsighted not shown to save space. Follow quote link to see the bullsith in its entirety.}

 

Are you dense?

 

4 out of 7 pieces of vanguard Exhumed setbonus gear come with crit and alacrity.

 

That is a colossal waste of resources.

 

A vanguard in optimized Dark Reaver will be able to kill his opponent (assuming equal skill, spec and resources) 12 seconds faster.

 

(and I actually speak from experience)

 

Also, while premades are powerful, they are NOT the ultimate deciding factor.

 

Yesterday, my group of "scub pugs" defeated an two imp premades in 3 different games...simply because we used focus target (that, and they sucked).

 

So, kindly, don't open your stewhole on matters you have no knowledge of.

[foxmob]

This is an absurd exaggeration. Current Swtor pvp armor is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Where augmentations, modding (even using PvE mods) was a big deal, and would make a huge difference. You're given blue fortitude augmentations from Bolster in every slot, free of charge. There's only a difference of 6 pts of endurance and 4 pts of power between blue and purple fortitude augments.

 

Most of the current pvp gear stats have a good stat spread. Some people like a little less accuracy, or alacrity, or crit. But it's quite arguable just how more efficient you are. There's good arguments to be made, for example, that the Dark Reaver vindicator set is very nearly perfect, stat wise, for a vengeance jugg, and that having ~5% alacrity on any class is a much bigger boost than most realize.

 

Dark Reaver vindicator pretty much gives you ~95% accuracy, 25% crit, 70% surge and 5% alacrity. Most other classes are similar in their DPS slots. Yes, some people like to tweak those numbers 4-5% up or down, but it is not an 'infinite distance' of efficiency.

 

CONCLUSION: The two biggest difference makers are A) Having PvP relics vs not having PvP relics and B) being in a premade vs not being in a premade. Everything else, provided you're smart enough to maximize bolster expertise, is within a very, very narrow range of each other. Augments used to be a big deal, but now are not thanks to the extremely generous bolster.

i'm going to assume you simply misinterpreted what I said and don't actually think it's absurd: there is only a minor difference from tier to tier and from pve gear to first exhumed. HOWEVER, there's a HUGE gap between min/max'd Dark Reaver and pve gear. if you honestly argue that, then you're not worth my time.

[BrownGravey]

I dont do PVP really much because players roll into unranked with full ranked optimized PVP gear and roll us. I have seen 3 on 1 where we are stunning and murdering another and not doing any damage to them. About like me rolling out in voss with my raid gear on. You would get more adoption if they would just not allow ranked pvp gear in unranked pvp. Probably will get a handful of "your an idiot" from the rest of you, but I could care less, just my 2 cents. There are a lot of us out there that would love to do more pvp if we didnt run up against farmers in ranked gear where they should not be, because they want to gear out another toon, or just like the feeling of beating on "little beyatches"

[Janglor]

I dont do PVP really much because players roll into unranked with full ranked optimized PVP gear and roll us. I have seen 3 on 1 where we are stunning and murdering another and not doing any damage to them. About like me rolling out in voss with my raid gear on. You would get more adoption if they would just not allow ranked pvp gear in unranked pvp. Probably will get a handful of "your an idiot" from the rest of you, but I could care less, just my 2 cents. There are a lot of us out there that would love to do more pvp if we didnt run up against farmers in ranked gear where they should not be, because they want to gear out another toon, or just like the feeling of beating on "little beyatches"

 

Ranked gear really isnt much different from basic PvP gear, my Jugg has almost no ranked and I regularly roll people in ranked gear.