Triipp Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Well since operatives always get nerfed even if they don't need it this post might be just "another operative post" Since 3.0 when hey took our hidden strike, and replaced it with backstab i've been seeing a serious drop on our burst, and overall dps... Some other operatives agree that its even better to open with veiled strike since it gives you a bonus on volatile substance (with 6 piece set), so that pretty much makes the whole backstabbing from stealth useless... I believe they should do something as said before in the lines of "when backstab is used from stealth, it won't trigger the cooldown" because we just lost an attack... (that and the fact that volatile substance doesn't immediately trigger, so you have to be intensively careful to time everything right).. Its a pretty fun class and i've enjoyed it since always, but they kinda took the fun out of it simplifying some stuff (not needing to apply poison blade everytime, which was really fun when you had the rotation down) and they made us the weakest dps there is... (NO AoE except the super expensive granade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArielRebel Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Well, you just have to compare Ops to Sins to see how BW is biased. We lost our knockdown because of some scrubs crying after using their CC breaker on the 1,5 sec knockdown while Sins get to keep their Spike (which is a 2 sec stun that also does good amount of damage), sins have better CC, defensive CDs and can even sometimes "out-heal" us through their leeching strike and death field + DoTs. We definitly need better damage on lethality (and, if BW finally takes their Operatives community seriously, a freaking fix to the puny damaging Dots and the spread) but a lot will argue against concealment getting a damage buff. we also definitly need better offheals because in the case of lethality, requiring 4 GCDs to set your heals up is too long, something like a refresh of probes on roll/infusion is required. Edited February 11, 2015 by ArielRebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Concealment is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpsmash Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Concealment doesn't need a damage boost. The only thing I'd really love is for backstab to be usable in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawabonga Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Pretty happy with the dps actually... Wouldn't mind if they buffed it but it's not strictly necessary. What i would really love would be for Kolto Probe used on self not to break stealth... Then all would be right in the world as far as concealment is concerned Edited February 11, 2015 by Kawabonga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Concealment is fine. This. I would not encourage the devs to look at this spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Pretty happy with the dps actually... Wouldn't mind if they buffed it but it's not strictly necessary. What i would really love would be for Kolto Probe used on self not to break stealth... Then all would be right in the world as far as concealment is concerned I'd love that. I feel like Kolto Probe ought to be our spiritual replacement for the old pre 2.0 stim boost revitalizers: a constant nice heal. Being able to set it up in stealth would be very powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototypemind Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The damage is fine. Fixing Volatile Substance so that CD doesn't have to be up first and some increase in defensive abilities would be nice, but the dps output is more than fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Honestly if the defense wasn't tied to roll it would be the most balanced spec the game has, no dps is needed and if we got to back stab from stealth with out a cd we would have a burst nerd coming hard and that would be one that we can easily avoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpsmash Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Fixing Volatile Substance so that CD doesn't have to be up first What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What does that mean? He wants the time it takes for Bloodboiler to set in before it will detonate to be removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVDF Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You know you can open with backstab, volatile substance, then veiled strike, and the veiled strike will still happen before the substance, right? You really don't need to open with veiled strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You know you can open with backstab, volatile substance, then veiled strike, and the veiled strike will still happen before the substance, right? You really don't need to open with veiled strike. You will notice that most people dont let you just get off 3 GCDs without doing something. Getting of three hits without being harrassed in some way is hard to come by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVDF Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You will notice that most people dont let you just get off 3 GCDs without doing something. Getting of three hits without being harrassed in some way is hard to come by I've done it... my point is, it's possible and I think it's a waste to open with veiled strike when you can get the TA from backstab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I've done it... my point is, it's possible and I think it's a waste to open with veiled strike when you can get the TA from backstab It's a complete waste to open with anything other than hidden strike, it's one of your biggest hitters and gives a TA, there's really no question about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystak Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I've done it... my point is, it's possible and I think it's a waste to open with veiled strike when you can get the TA from backstab Im not saying dont do it, Im just saying your more than likely going to get stunned before you get your third ability off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVDF Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's a complete waste to open with anything other than hidden strike, it's one of your biggest hitters and gives a TA, there's really no question about it. That's what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Concealment DPS is fine, like most others have said. I'd say it's one of the stronger non-OP single targets trees right now. Also, being able to apply Kolto Probes while in stealth would be OP (H2F in stealth would be kinda stupid). However, I would like to see Concealment get a passive that automatically applies 2 stacks of probes when LEAVING stealth. And Lethality could get something that refreshes their probes every time they roll on a 10s ICD, currently they use too many GCD's on survivability, and this would free them up to do more damage for an already long set-up time rotation. Edited February 12, 2015 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBMalachorfive Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I agree that scrapper DPS is fine and our burst, for me personally, is fantastic. I often see a 9 - 10k crit on opener against people who are fully geared, which is %25 of most non tanks health. Our defensives are a little lackluster, but personally i don't have an real problems with this spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus-SUON Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 to agree with everyone else, the dps is SOLID. however, i wish they would change the set bonus on our gear to make backblast increase damage by 2% and not bludgeon(blaster whip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You will notice that most people dont let you just get off 3 GCDs without doing something. Getting of three hits without being harrassed in some way is hard to come by I'm actually able to pull this off most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. You should never open with veiled strike if you have backstab available. I don't even know why someone would suggest that. Backstab from stealth can hit very hard (10-12 oft times in regs and 9-10k in ranked). (Aside this isn't all aimed at the quoted comment) Concealment burst is actually quite superb. I don't mind the set in time for volatile though I would like it to be able to be detonated with tech and ranged damage and not just dots. We don't need any DPS buffs for single target. Backstab not causing cooldown from stealth would cause 20 pages of rage threads in the PVP section I'm sure. Would be overkill. Wouldn't mind it if entering stealth lowered the active cooldown of Backstab so you could open back up with it though, but that would be more of a quality of life thing. I am actually perfectly happy with concealment the way it is. I like their defenses and their damage. Both are great, but both have counters. Concealment isn't underpowered nor is it overpowered. It is balanced quite well IMO. No need to bring it to stupid levels (aka hatred sin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaadswtor Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Concealment DPS is / one of the stronger non-OP single targets trees right now. And Lethality / they use too many GCD's on survivability, and this would free them up to do more damage for an already long set-up time rotation. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) *snip* Concealment burst is actually quite superb. Concealment isn't underpowered nor is it overpowered. It is balanced quite well IMO. No need to bring it to stupid levels (aka hatred sin). *snip* Yeah, if anything we could just use a few QoL improvements such as going into stealth resets the CD of backstab (but not cloaking screen as that could be abused like double hidden strike open pre 2.7 or w/e it was), and maybe getting 2 kolto probes applied automatically when you leave stealth. Otherwise, I think our survivability and damage in Concealment is in a good place and I think it's one of, if not the most balanced class in 60's atm. Edited February 12, 2015 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah, if anything we could just use a few QoL improvements such as going into stealth resets the CD of backstab (but not cloaking screen as that could be abused like double hidden strike open pre 2.7 or w/e it was), and maybe getting 2 kolto probes applied automatically when you leave stealth. Otherwise, I think our survivability and damage in Concealment is in a good place and I think it's one of, if not the most balanced class in 60's atm. Yes on the backstab, no on the kolto probes. Also maybe make jarring strike a default ability for concealment since no one else will use it and it is not worth a heroic utility. Personally I think they should replace jarring strike with an utility that will reset kolto cloud, backstab and toxic blast when we go into stealth, so it is something useful to everyone and jarring strike should be made a passive ability for concealment. But those are just QoL changes. Concealment is in a great place right now and I honestly don't really want BW messing with it too much. First time since 2.6 that I am truly enjoying my concealment op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 For the love of all things worth loving....stop asking the devs to look at this spec. PLEASE!? Can we all just get past one update without another nerf to Ops/Scoundrels, once Sorc and Sin are brought in line, the Op/Scoun will likely be getting looked at soon after. Ops/Scoundrels are fine, there is nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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