Getting real tired of the first boss in Tython HM

[Glorthox]

Every single pug I have been in, never beats this boss and the group always implodes. Heck I have even seen groups implode before the flashpoint even starts. This guy seems harder than any other boss in other hard modes and yet drops crap for gear. I think some of these flashpoints need to be addressed. I know there will be some that comment and say it is easy. But in a PUG, it is nearly impossible to even complete.

[Strlder]

oh god forbid scrubs l2p

[DalekTheCat]

In a pug where nobody knows or trusts one another, just do it the Lame Way and run down the ramp when the adds come to avoid the damage, then reengage when the boss's shield thingy expires.

[psandak]

Glorthox,

 

You are both right and wrong...

 

For a group of players who do not know what they are doing that boss is nigh impossible. BUT get a group who do know what they are doing and that boss is cake. The problem lies in the gap between those two states; there is very little wiggle room for the group to do anything incorrectly (very similar to the Desert boss in Czerka Core Meltdown, or the first and last bosses in HM Cadimimu or Bulo in even SM Ravagers, the list goes on).

 

And while I have experienced more of the former than the latter in PuGs, IMO the mechanics are fine. It is players who need to come to the realization that they cannot brute force that boss no matter how hard they try. I call it a "survive first, DPS second" fight. and until a majority of players figure that out PuGs are going to continue to struggle with that boss.

[Kingsbount]

First of all you guys forgetting one little thing...

Everyone have a different difficulty level.

Some ppeople find even NiM content easy.

And some people can't beat this boss.

No its not L2P issue (like an elitist *ss was saying).

Its a poor design issue.

And this is BW fail. Not players.

When game cannot follow own logic - its fail.

[DalekTheCat]

First of all you guys forgetting one little thing...

Everyone have a different difficulty level.

Some ppeople find even NiM content easy.

And some people can't beat this boss.

No its not L2P issue (like an elitist *ss was saying).

Its a poor design issue.

And this is BW fail. Not players.

When game cannot follow own logic - its fail.

 

Yes let's get rid of all difficult content and give everyone their own Jesus Droid as a permanent companion/babysitter so we don't ever have to face the prospect of failure. Everything should be like the Revan fight, which plays itself while the player afks for five minutes. Sounds like fun.

 

The flashpoint is fine as it is and if you can't beat the boss you should ask yourself why.

[JacksonMo]

Yes let's get rid of all difficult content and give everyone their own Jesus Droid as a permanent companion/babysitter so we don't ever have to face the prospect of failure. Everything should be like the Revan fight, which plays itself while the player afks for five minutes. Sounds like fun.

 

The flashpoint is fine as it is and if you can't beat the boss you should ask yourself why.

 

Five minutes AFK against Revan will get you killed. You have to at least be there for the bubble phase.

[JouerTue]

Five minutes AFK against Revan will get you killed. You have to at least be there for the bubble phase.

 

too hard, nerf that

[AAAAzrael]

First of all you guys forgetting one little thing...

Everyone have a different difficulty level.

Some ppeople find even NiM content easy.

And some people can't beat this boss.

No its not L2P issue (like an elitist *ss was saying).

Its a poor design issue.

And this is BW fail. Not players.

When game cannot follow own logic - its fail.

 

 

It's HARD MODE. If you wanna do HARD MODE, then at least try. It can and already was undermanned without massively outgearing it, so really just try harder or give up and don't do HM.

[thewitchdoctor]

Five minutes AFK against Revan will get you killed. You have to at least be there for the bubble phase.

 

His point remains. The Revan fight, minus the exception of the bubbles, requires no input from the player. It is a sad, sad 'fight.'

 

The Jeebus Droid for the solo FPs at least still requires the player to be present.

 

I have to agree with the others who have pointed out that the fight, while mechanically-demanding, is not hard.

[Torvai]

I have to agree with the others who have pointed out that the fight, while mechanically-demanding, is not hard.

 

It's not really "mechanically-demanding" either. It's just a "don't stand in stupid" fight, and yet people have problems with that:confused:

But I read in another thread about the topic that players from australia(?) had a hard time getting out of the orbitals just because of latency, so I'll admit that the radius might need a slight tuning down. Other than that, fight is completely fine.

As it has been stated: It's called HARD mode for a reason:rolleyes:

[Irongut]

No its not L2P issue (like an elitist *ss was saying).

Its a poor design issue.

 

Yes it is a learn to play issue. I was going to be offensive about it like you were but decided to take the higher ground.

 

This boss is entirely doable in PUGs. However everyone needs to know and follow the tactics and have decent gear. It also helps to assign corners to each person for the shields stage before you start. If one person doesn't take their corner you're screwed. If your healer is undergeared or incapable you're screwed. If the dps or tank are undergeared you're probably screwed.

 

Hard modes should be hard. They should force you to follow the mechanics. They should not be a boring snoozefest of tank & spank. This FP is working as designed and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Yezzan]

It's not always a L2P issue, and people need to jump off that waggon.

 

Anyone who always do OPs will almost never have an issue with HM FPs because they are way easier than ops and the mechanics rarely ever change. Sure it's a different boss and location but the strategies are only slightly different.

 

Practice makes perfect. PUGs are usually PvE-ers who are mostly used to Tactical. Assault on Thyton, the First boss is too hard for the stupid drop it gives.

 

Running down to the bottom sometimes reset the boss so it doesn't always work and that's not how the FP should be played anyways. You are avoiding the mechanics (easy way out) yet telling people to L2P.

 

if the healer suck (operative) you can just log out and don't bother.

[mikebevo]

Fight isn't too hard. I made the biggest bone head mistake since following the tank off a ledge in HMFE when it was relevant and the pug group still one shot boss.

 

On my sawbones I got knocked off back of platform when I got into bad positioning trying to heal sentinel with aspirations of being a tank without the knowledge of defensive cooldowns. I thought for sure it would be a wipe, but sentinel found defensive cooldowns and dps scoundrel and tank already knew where the were. I stealthed out of combat and rocket boost back to group and they managed to kill the boss. If a pug group can manage to survive my bonehead stupidity then this flashpoint isn't too difficult.

[invertioN]

Fight isn't too hard. I made the biggest bone head mistake since following the tank off a ledge in HMFE when it was relevant and the pug group still one shot boss.

 

On my sawbones I got knocked off back of platform when I got into bad positioning trying to heal sentinel with aspirations of being a tank without the knowledge of defensive cooldowns. I thought for sure it would be a wipe, but sentinel found defensive cooldowns and dps scoundrel and tank already knew where the were. I stealthed out of combat and rocket boost back to group and they managed to kill the boss. If a pug group can manage to survive my bonehead stupidity then this flashpoint isn't too difficult.

That's another good point about the "L2P issue". The pugs failing this boss also can't react to changes. They might know what the mechanics are, but as soon as something unexpected happens (like for example what u did), a lot of them will die. They will also fail at executing the same mechanic over a longer period of time, like avoiding all orbitals for more than 10 seconds.

This is all just a matter of practice but before 3.0 there was almost nothing to practice on.

Edited February 9, 2015 by invertioN

[Shwarzchild]

"It's all a matter of practice"

 

THANK YOU!!!! Yes. All just a matter of practice. The fight is not that bad. It's tough, and it's unforgiving, but it's not that bad. I'm an operative healer, and I can run through that hard mode no problem with the guild, and with problems in PuGs (I've currently cleared it with 2 groups out of maybe 6 tries) I've always noticed that most PuGs I've been in, which to be fair haven't been very numerous since generally I don't PuG at all, just don't want to wait for each other in these things. It's still "I need to faceroll this" when that's just not that possible. I've noticed that I'm playing catch up with people. Or, we get to Imos and after 3 wipes, and after 3 times asking if anyone is confused or what not and receiving no reply, I get an "Oh, i've just solo'd this....what's different?" I end up just leaving. I don't feel like taking the time to deal with some of this game's population. I just don't. It reminds me of Lost Island back in the day pre LI nerf. Man oh man you couldn't get into that group unless you knew the fight, and you had the gear. If only we could start doing that to these people who just have zero up in the head, and zero gear.

 

100% Learn to Play issue. 100%. You know what I'm tired of? People who complain about this boss fight being too hard, and then they are the same people who muck up groups by ignoring everything.

[AAAAzrael]

I think you touched major problem Adixia. There is nowhere in game for sub-average player to practise, or at least until recently there was nowhere. It's especially visible for healers. Before 2.0 you barely had to heal in SM content or FP's. You'd spend 90% of your time DPSing. When suddenly a healer who doesn't progression raid has to heal for real like in AoT he's lost completely. I don't like how they dumbed down the healing with this patch, but even with the dumbing down a fight that requires sustained healing and energy management n a FP is something that didn't exist in game since probably Lost Island was relevant? So I guess this is where all the whining is coming from.

 

My appeal is to all non-raiders - try harder and you might even enjoy it!

Edited February 9, 2015 by AAAAzrael

[ufarax]

I think you touched major problem Adixia. There is nowhere in game for sub-average player to practise, or at least until recently there was nowhere. It's especially visible for healers. Before 2.0 you barely had to heal in SM content or FP's. You'd spend 90% of your time DPSing. When suddenly a healer who doesn't progression raid has to heal for real like in AoT he's lost completely. I don't like how they dumbed down the healing with this patch, but even with the dumbing down a fight that requires sustained healing and energy management n a FP is something that didn't exist in game since probably Lost Island was relevant? So I guess this is where all the whining is coming from.

 

My appeal is to all non-raiders - try harder and you might even enjoy it!

 

 

 

That was the good old days; when you could heal thru stupid. I ran Tython (HM); hours after reaching 60...with a under geared tank and DPS. We followed the mechanics and had zero wipes. You must follow the mechanics. Fear not and keep hope alive (OP), this flash point will get nerfed; can you say LR-5 Sentinel Droid. :eek::eek:

[Eatdamuffin]

I don't get it. Maybe I got lucky but I two shot this today first time tanking it and second time tanking a HM flashpoint at max level.

 

All I did was have everyone call out the corner and it was done. The other flashpoint that I couldn't complete was Korriban on R-9XR, it just seemed either the DPS weren't avoiding enough damage and not outputting enough because it just couldn't be done with the group I was in.

[mikebevo]

I disagree with a few of the post on a number of accounts.

 

1. One just because DPS is dying, does not mean the healer is the problem. The problem is we have be face rolling HM FPs for almost a year. This is the same problem and the same whining that happened on the forums after 2.0 came out and we actually had to play smart to beat them at the time until we were geared again to faceroll the content. Even without a nerf this content will become a joke as people become geared. Some healers are out of practice using HoTs, Some DPS is out of the habit of getting out of AoE and not letting the tank do the pulling. Some tanks are out of the habit of pointing damage away from raid. Before now there hasn't been a reason to play smart in a HMFP in almost a year. Play smart and win or continue playing like you are in 186 gearing doing Raiders and keep wiping. Personally I look at my groups gear and achievements, don't care about either beyond I wart an idea of how I am going to have to change my play style to fit my current group. If your group keeps wiping on the first boss of Tython, then quit blaming the group or the content and look in the mirror to figure out what you can do to make the group successful. If the healer isn't as good as your normal progression group healer, then why don't you help him/her out by getting out of AoE and using defensive cooldowns.

 

2. There are plenty of ways to practice for a healer. At launch I was the worse healer ever in a MMO. This was my first time healing in any game and this was my first time playing a MMO. Easy ways to learn....1) PVP. 2) Hook up with a bad group and do operations. During the old HM KP and EV days I ran with a group outside my guild that would hit enrage on every boss. The only way we would ever win is to outheal the instance. The other healer and me got tired of dying and learned how to do this. That was the most frustrating time in the game for me, but it did teach me to heal and my class. Back then I would take my undergeared companions into Heroic 4s, aggro everything and see how long I could keep companion alive and my character alive. I would even go into HMFP solo and do the same thing. If a healer wants to get better, there are many ways to do it. To me it is harder to get better on dps, stuff dies before I finish 1/2 a rotation really isn't teaching me anything. Healing I can always attack a champ on Yarin without a companion to figure out defensive cooldowns and energy management. No danger of dying, but it is going to be a long slow fight without a companion. Too easy, remove some gear and try it again. Getting better isn't magic, well unless you get the roll for a gear drop, it takes practice.

Edited February 9, 2015 by mikebevo

[iusCogens]

if the healer suck (operative) you can just log out and don't bother.

 

I main Operative healer and I take offense to this. Joking aside, wiping on the first boss of Tython is not necessarily a healing issue. In reality, it is a DPS check disguised as healing check; it's a race to kill the adds before they kill you. The healer might be inclined to fully focus on the tank (as they are tanking the boss, their own add and and the healer's add, that's a lot of damage to take), so DPS might not receive any heals. This shouldn't be a problem; DPS should be able to kill their own adds without any heals. On my Mara, add hit me for about 30-33k (with Saber Ward/Cloak of Pain/Predation/Obfuscate popped, depending on whichever is available). It left me with a little over 10k hp, but enough to survive taking on the tank's and healer's adds. Health might be a little low, but that's why we have those defensive cooldowns.

 

I never have problems healing Tython on my Operative. When adds come down, stealth out, wait for orbital to drop, move to the center and let tank take aggro of add, slap two stacks of Kolto Probe on everyone (plus Kolto Infusion on the tank), and use Surgical Probe on whoever needs it. Shield Probe/Evasion/threat drop if add/boss is on you.

 

The only thing I can't handle is someone being caught in the orbital; if it happens, I sigh and silently prepare my combat/stealth rez 'cause no amount of effort will save them.

 

Personally I find second boss of Korriban and third boss of Manaan more challenging. Tight DPS check, and in Manaan a lot of people don't know that the adds need to be killed fast, or they will oneshot the DPS and healer. Those lightning stacks hurt.

[WhiteKing]

Getting real tired of the first boss in Tython HM myself!

 

Or, rather, mindblowingly incapable people doing that boss. Yesterday, on two separate occasions, one per faction, we got a *ranged* dps insisting on doing the Sir Robin tactic because, as it turned out, they were physically incapable of standing on a spawn spot to place an orbital. Neuro science and rocket surgery be too hard for Hulk! Everyone else must have been a wizard, though, as despite being melee, the other adds got pummeled as they should with the first volley.

 

As a side note, our operative healer prevented a wipe despite dps doing their utmost to get us killed.

[AAAAzrael]

2. There are plenty of ways to practice for a healer. At launch I was the worse healer ever in a MMO. This was my first time healing in any game and this was my first time playing a MMO. Easy ways to learn....1) PVP. 2) Hook up with a bad group and do operations. During the old HM KP and EV days I ran with a group outside my guild that would hit enrage on every boss. The only way we would ever win is to outheal the instance. The other healer and me got tired of dying and learned how to do this. That was the most frustrating time in the game for me, but it did teach me to heal and my class. Back then I would take my undergeared companions into Heroic 4s, aggro everything and see how long I could keep companion alive and my character alive. I would even go into HMFP solo and do the same thing. If a healer wants to get better, there are many ways to do it. To me it is harder to get better on dps, stuff dies before I finish 1/2 a rotation really isn't teaching me anything. Healing I can always attack a champ on Yarin without a companion to figure out defensive cooldowns and energy management. No danger of dying, but it is going to be a long slow fight without a companion. Too easy, remove some gear and try it again. Getting better isn't magic, well unless you get the roll for a gear drop, it takes practice.

 

Of course there are those things you can do to handicap yourself. Solo healing content is another thing you can do. Eg. in 2.10 it was good practise to solo heal DP HM, some people solo-healed some fights on NIM. But it doesn't reflect truly hard fights where it's a matter of cooperation with others, precasting heals before damage lands and so on, while still doing some DPS (it's still required on some bosses for most groups and in general as I written many times before I expect healers to do damage as long as everyone is alive). Below avarage healer who was only running SM ops and HM FP's in 2.10 can hit a brick wall in 3.0 I guess, as some of those fights genuinely require concentration and using all the global cooldowns not half of them

[mikebevo]

Of course there are those things you can do to handicap yourself. Solo healing content is another thing you can do. Eg. in 2.10 it was good practise to solo heal DP HM, some people solo-healed some fights on NIM. But it doesn't reflect truly hard fights where it's a matter of cooperation with others, precasting heals before damage lands and so on, while still doing some DPS (it's still required on some bosses for most groups and in general as I written many times before I expect healers to do damage as long as everyone is alive). Below avarage healer who was only running SM ops and HM FP's in 2.10 can hit a brick wall in 3.0 I guess, as some of those fights genuinely require concentration and using all the global cooldowns not half of them

 

1. Totally agree with you. Although with the change in purge cooldown and the mechanics of cleanses, solo healing operations has gotten more difficult with 3.0. Also usually solo healing is to pad heal numbers, not for practice. I would rather take a noob healer and let them practice instead of solo healing content. Padding numbers promotes bad habit to me in group content.

 

2. I agree healers should be doing damage when possible. Only thing I would add for those new to healing is don't try to max dps at the cost of Energy/Force. Do damage, but don't use "I was doing DPS" as an excuse for not having resources when spike damage goes out. You have to dps smartly.

 

3. Tell DPS the same thing, we all have defensive cooldowns for a reason. Even in pugs I don't remember seeing a enrage in a HMFP ever, so while hitting one global cooldown may cost you a little on your precious DPS numbers, but more importantly it may mean a win instead of a wipe.

Edited February 10, 2015 by mikebevo

[AAAAzrael]

In some fights it's actually beneficial for DPS to heal. One example is HM Underlurker when behind rock and out of LOS for the boss. Off-healer classes should heal there if energy allows. So basically it's worth using all tools your class possesses.