How do the designers justify the situation when bosses runs away at 19%, 10% etc.?

[nwhaxyz]

I'll repeat the question here:

How do the designers justify the situation when bosses run away at 19%, 10%, 8% etc. for dps classes that have the so called execute buff?

For example:

The Ravagers op: Master and Blaster, Corattani and Ruugar. Dps classes, that has big buff when the target is under 30%, are kinda screwed by this designers' choice (inb4 range vs melee - that's a different topic). Like shadows/assassin - especially the balance/madness spec (call it serenity/hatred if you will).

Edited February 7, 2015 by nwhaxyz

[vdbswong]

I don't understand how you're complaining that Boss Fights / Execute phases aren't longer just so you can pad your DPS numbers more?

[myragoeshappy]

especially the balance/madness spec (call it serenity/hatred if you will).

 

I still prefer Madness then Lightning, but who is gonna play this spec in HM on this boss

 

EDIT: skiped something while reading Said nothing

Edited February 7, 2015 by myragoeshappy

[nwhaxyz]

Padding numbers, what is this - how can you pad numbers on a boss anyway?

Here we talk about the designers' choice of giving classes buffs under 30% to balance the dps, and in the same time the are taking that thing back by making bosses leaving combat earlier. I.e. classes that don't have buffs under 30% will do much better than classes that have ones, i.e. making those fights much easier - i gave the example with the shadows/assassins balance/madness spec being the worst of this example.

 

p.s. The bosses can leave combat at 50% for all i care about "padding" numbers.

Edited February 7, 2015 by nwhaxyz

[vdbswong]

Padding numbers, what is this - how can you pad numbers on a boss anyway?

Here we talk about the designers choice of giving classes buffs under 30% to balance the dps, and in the same time the are taking that thing back by making bosses leaving combat earlier. I.e. classes that don't have buffs under 30% will do much better than classes that don't have ones, i.e. making those fights more easier - i gave the example with the shadows/assassins balance/madness spec being the worst of this.

 

p.s. The bosses can leave combat at 50% for all i care about "padding" numbers.

 

What you're basically complaining about is that your DPS numbers are "too low" because you don't have enough of an Execute phase in order to inflate them as your spec has bonuses to under-30%.

 

However at the end of the day, it's just fluffing numbers because if they gave you an extended Execute phase to DPS to 0%, your DPS from 100%->30% would still be the same and all that will have changed will be the number on your parse will be a little higher at the expense of having a longer fight.

[nwhaxyz]

Ok, i really hope you are not employed in bioware in anyway.

It's not about dps competition on the boss - but making those fights taking longer with a classes that have those buffs, against classes that don't have them.

Can you grasp the meaning of this sentence, or you still gonna talk about "dps padding" on the boss?

 

p.s. that was my last comment on your "meaningful" posts.

Edited February 7, 2015 by nwhaxyz

[Fazaani]

I have a solution for the op.

 

Just change your sig to correctly to mention that all my raid parses aren't doing really honour to my supreme skills since devs are making fight's that end before "i can give all that i have to give"

 

In ops grp you can also mention several times (in chat) that youre a better dps than numbers make you to be!

 

And to add some content to my post: i wish a nice spring to all

[Juerch]

I really don't see what your problem is. Having the boss leave at 30% health makes the fight shorter than having to kill the boss all the way down to 0 regardless of what sort of dps you bring. To me it really does sound like all you're doing is complaining that your parse isn't as high as it could be since the fight isn't long enough for you -.-

[vdbswong]

Ok, i really hope you are not employed in bioware in anyway.

It's not about dps competition on the boss - but making those fights taking longer with a classes that have those buffs, against classes that don't have them.

Can you grasp the meaning of this sentence, or you still gonna talk about "dps padding" on the boss?

 

p.s. that was my last comment on your "meaningful" posts.

 

Sounds like the perfect way to start a conversation, ignore any logical input that counteracts your own views and only listen to people that agree with you?

 

If i'm (hopefully) not employed by Bioware then you're (hopefully) not a Politician?

 

The only "solution" you have to your issues is to take 80% of their HP (since they run away ~20%) and then effectively make that their "100%" HP. Which means they end up running away at maybe 1-5% HP instead of 20%... the problem there is start running into issues when you can accidentally kill the boss which can either prevent phase changes, push phases too early or just bug out the fight entirely:

 

- Killing any of the Dread Masters in DP Council during penultimate phase during their Channel won't transition into last phase until you push another another.

- You can kill the Wealthy Buyer before intended on the Olok fight in SnV - painful.

 

At which point you then have 2 solutions:

 

- Stop DPS on the boss because you don't want to break the fight... whereby people will complain because you know... "how can bioware justify making a Boss you can bug out because you kill it".

- Give the boss more HP as "buffer" so it's harder for them to kill the boss... whereby people will complain because "how can bioware justify people having lowered DPS because the boss runs away at 20% HP".

 

---

 

Also, trying to put the onus on an increased Time-to-kill and not DPS is really just swings and roundabouts because TTK has a direct relation to DPS.

 

At the end of the day... if you don't want a fight to take as long, just DPS harder.

[mastirkal]

Hey ya'll, OP may be wrong on a few things, but he is right on the fact that it's rather silly that a class skill cannot be used to it's full potential because the designers of the game wanted these bosses to "die" at an arbitrary percentage of HP instead of making their HP lower and having them push with like 1% or 1HP left and going invulnerable. That's a dumb choice and it does take away from the entire point of having execute abilities, which is pretty ******. Edited February 7, 2015 by mastirkal

[vdbswong]

Hey ya'll, OP may be wrong on a few things, but he is right on the fact that it's rather silly that a class skill cannot be used to it's full potential because the designers of the game wanted these bosses to "die" at an arbitrary percentage of HP instead of making their HP lower and having them push with like 1% or 1HP left and going invulnerable. That's a dumb choice and it does take away from the entire point of having execute abilities, which is pretty ******.

 

The point is that it's not like the Execute phase doesn't exist... it's there, it's just not as long / not as much of a proportion of the fight that the OP would like.

 

And yes, in theory making the Boss go immune at 1HP/1% works well on paper, but there are numerous times where you can DPS through such mechanics.

 

Like I said, it's better to accept that DPS will be lowered through such means than having people ***** about having to *not* kill a Boss just so the fight can progress.

[cs_zoltan]

I really don't see what your problem is. Having the boss leave at 30% health makes the fight shorter than having to kill the boss all the way down to 0 regardless of what sort of dps you bring. To me it really does sound like all you're doing is complaining that your parse isn't as high as it could be since the fight isn't long enough for you -.-

 

Not really.

 

Let's say there's a spec that does A dps and doesn't have execute buff. And another that has B dps and has execute buff and it's >30% dps is C.

Let's say the boss "leaves" combat at 30% health and has a dps check of E. If A = B > E > C then it's a valid complain...

Edited February 7, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[bdatt]

Very good point OP and I agree. If some classes are balanced around total potential (including full execute phase for those with execute bonuses) they should get that full potential. Never thought about it before but bosses like TFB as well that disappeared at 3% applied too, although not as egregious as 19%.

 

If there's a story reason to keep a boss alive I agree with others they should go immune at 1 HP and adjust total HP accordingly.

 

Or stick with the 19% or whatever and adjust the execute for that boss to begin at 50%. This seems more difficult though.

 

There's already bias against mele, no need to introduce bias against classes with executes.

Edited February 7, 2015 by bdatt

[mastirkal]

Very good point OP and I agree. If some classes are balanced around total potential (including full execute phase for those with execute bonuses) they should get that full potential. Never thought about it before but bosses like TFB as well that disappeared at 3% applied too, although not as egregious as 19%.

 

If there's a story reason to keep a boss alive I agree with others they should go immune at 1 HP and adjust total HP accordingly.

 

Or stick with the 19% or whatever and adjust the execute for that boss to begin at 50%. This seems more difficult though.

 

There's already bias against mele, no need to introduce bias against classes with executes.

 

Tfb really isn't a good example. You're still getting your full execute rotation on the tentacles, and by the time you're actually suposed to be dpsing the boss, he's already in the execute phase.

 

The point is that it's not like the Execute phase doesn't exist... it's there, it's just not as long / not as much of a proportion of the fight that the OP would like.

 

And yes, in theory making the Boss go immune at 1HP/1% works well on paper, but there are numerous times where you can DPS through such mechanics.

 

Like I said, it's better to accept that DPS will be lowered through such means than having people ***** about having to *not* kill a Boss just so the fight can progress.

 

Thats... that's really not an excuse. If the fight is bugged, then it's bugged. That doesn't mean they shouldn't make the bosses go down to a lower percentage so dps that rely on execute can actually be useful for that final 30% It's not about padding the numbers. It's about making the classes that do have an execute, not meaningless.

Edited February 7, 2015 by mastirkal

[bdatt]

There's already bias against mele, no need to introduce bias against classes with executes.

 

Quoting myself for a somewhat retraction: The flipside with fights with more challenging soft enrages during execute would then favor classes with execute. So perhaps it's somewhat balanced.

[mastirkal]

Quoting myself for a somewhat retraction: The flipside with fights with more challenging soft enrages during execute would then favor classes with execute. So perhaps it's somewhat balanced.

 

In current content the only fights where that would be relevant is revanites and master blaster. soft enrage on revan has the orb start at 100% and walkers "soft enrage" can barely be seen as soft as it will kill your group in less than five seconds.

[vdbswong]

Thats... that's really not an excuse. If the fight is bugged, then it's bugged. That doesn't mean they shouldn't make the bosses go down to a lower percentage so dps that rely on execute can actually be useful for that final 30% It's not about padding the numbers. It's about making the classes that do have an execute, not meaningless.

 

If the game's not going to process and make a mob immune quickly enough then you're going to have far more issues with getting the transitions to work.

 

How is it worse to have slightly reduced DPS on a boss compared to potentially bugging out a fight within 2-3 gear tiers?

 

Like I said, it's not that the Execute phase is completely missing, just that it's not as long.

 

Certain fights are always going to favour one set of classes over another... AoE over single target, burst over sustained... and there is no fight out there where it's "meaningless" to take an Execute class because they're "not useful".

 

At the end of the day here we're talking potentially Cora (and only Ruugar who leaves at 9%) and M&B... that's 2/10 bosses on the current content tier and in terms of past operations it's the TFB and... Annihilation Droid?

 

Is this really *that* big a deal?

Edited February 7, 2015 by vdbswong

[mastirkal]

If the game's not going to process and make a mob immune quickly enough then you're going to have far more issues with getting the transitions to work.

 

How is it worse to have slightly reduced DPS on a boss compared to potentially bugging out a fight within 2-3 gear tiers?

 

Like I said, it's not that the Execute phase is completely missing, just that it's not as long.

 

Certain fights are always going to favour one set of classes over another... AoE over single target, burst over sustained... and there is no fight out there where it's "meaningless" to take an Execute class because they're "not useful".

 

At the end of the day here we're talking potentially Cora (and only Ruugar who leaves at 9%) and M&B... that's 2/10 bosses on the current content tier and in terms of past operations it's the TFB and... Annihilation Droid?

 

Is this really *that* big a deal?

 

Nope. I was never arguing that it was ever a big deal. I don't expect anything to happen because of this thread and only joined to get my view out there. It doesn't make for a good design choice, It is dumb, and bioware should feel bad, that is all I'm getting at.

Edited February 7, 2015 by mastirkal

[Kryand]

On one hand I agree, because a lot of the boss actions when they "run away" are totally pointless.

 

Fully destroying Master and/or Blaster wouldn't break anything, since they both just blow up a few seconds later anyway. They could just get rid of that dumb "cut scene" and have you DPS them to 0% instead.

 

Same goes for Ruugar, since he presumably dies on the ship. And if they had you kill him instead of doing the dumb ship crash "cut scene", that exploit probably never would have existed. All because they wanted to have you click on an escape pod with a slower channel than the self-destruct and say "oh no!", when it doesn't actually matter. Yeah, real important...

 

But on the other hand, this is a really silly thing to complain about. It's a mechanic like any other. You may as well complain about the add AoEs on HM Revanite Commanders because you might have to cancel your Recklessness'd Force Storm to move out of them, twice in a row. Poor Sorcs...? It's a fight mechanic; deal with it. A practically negligible one at that.

[mastirkal]

snipe.

 

It's not a big deal, but it's still retarded with a capital DDD.

Edited February 7, 2015 by mastirkal

[Citruzz]

absorbed damage counts for dps, so you are able to push your dps a little bit, till they disappear completely.

[Genghistwelve]

There is an Op and specific boss for DPS padders.

 

It's called Karagga's Palace: Heavy Fabricator.

 

He's always been there, just waiting for you.

[Aerilas]

There is an Op and specific boss for DPS padders.

 

It's called Karagga's Palace: Heavy Fabricator.

 

He's always been there, just waiting for you.

 

Don't forget malaphar SM, where crits can go up to 30k!

[invertioN]

I don't udnerstand everyone is derailing the thread of what is a real problem. This is not about getting insane dps, it's about balance. If u look a bit back you will notice that the devs meant for some classes to do less dps in the first parts of a fight and then do more in the last 30% to bring them in line with the rest of the classes that do high dps throughout the whole fight.

With the mentioned situations this doesn't happen so such specs would therefore become less viable if you are trying to beat an enrage timer.

Edited February 8, 2015 by invertioN

[SBR_QuorTek]

This isn't about the numbers you get out from some parse program but actually accomplishing the mission, if it mean there is a delay phase where the boss run away and you have to wait for your group, so be it!

 

It is certainly not something that is going to ruin anyones day anyway whenever it get to it, it just mean that the absolute max would be much less due to those phases, it is all about winning for your team not silly personal goals.

 

At least that is how I read it lol.