AaronZahn Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I really hope this isn't what bioware meant by "better than cross servers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) There are so little arena players left that it's easy for them to track each character ;D On the other side what about players who itentionally lose the games, play like idiots and drag other people's ratings down?! It is a much worse issue than win trading because those guys DO NOT CARE ABOUT LOSING RATING AND REWARDS! There are notorious players who do it on purpose, videos were posted, leaderboards presented, screenshots taken of their empty gear shells etc. Edited February 3, 2015 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I really hope this isn't what bioware meant by "better than cross servers". I LOL'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 got lucky in their match-ups. -eric Thank you Eric for confirming what ranked pvp essentially boils down to. P.S, there are still win traders on the leaderboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) >People QQ about bioware not being transparent and not actioning win-trading >Bioware makes a transparent statement about new plans for more effectively dealing with win-trading >People QQ about bioware being transparent and about bioware creating plans for dealing with win-traders. This is why community managers get my respect, for simply having the balls to not quit after the first week. Edited February 3, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULCASTER Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'm sorry but this is a day late and a dollar short. There are just so many things that need to be addressed before caring bout win-traders even matters. - Preventing ELO loss in uneven matches (3v4, etc) - Creating a MAX EXPERTISE requirement before you can queue. - Removing the ability for players to stance dance mid match - Removing access to the tank stance in general, for those that are playing DPS and are just going to switch to tank gear and cheese guard when the match starts (also see above). - Creating a lockout for at LEAST 20 minutes, when you fail to take a rated queue, or you leave a rated match. BUT see the first point above in response to this. These are just some of the problems that (imo) NEED to be fixed before ranked arenas can honestly be considered truely competitive. But to be honest, they have been such a failure SINCE their creation, I really would like to see them delete the solo rated queue entirely, and move to either team ranked arenas only AND/OR bring back team rated arenas. To coincide with this though, I'd love to see them create practice team arenas though. So teams can scrimmage as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Now fix the damn daily so losses count, wins count double. The daily for regs used to work the same way. Remember what happened? People quit and threw matches as soon as things looked bad. It was better to quit a losing match and fish for a better match than to stay in the match you were in. PVP went to a very, very bad place and it was a contributing factor to a lot of servers dying (along with other mismanaged content). Not saying that stuff like that doesn't happen now, because it does, but it used to be a lot worse. You expect me to queue for a pop that might well be indefinite on my server, and be locked out of queuing for regs at the same time, then I expect any match I play to be credited to my daily/weekly. I'm already punished in rating if I get a team of conquest derps that I can't carry, I don't need to be punished again with having the match not count for daily credit when I'm the only one trying. A friend from Bastion recently came over to my server and tried to get me interested in ranked again, I sync queued a couple yolo matches with him but we couldn't carry half a team consisting of a derp and a troll,* I was like "**** that, find me 2 good dps and maybe I'll do team ranked but I have no interest in this *****." *Though we almost made it to the acid--about 30 seconds thereto--when I let the troll die early in round 2 and healed the rest of the match 3v4. Unfortunately that was round 2 and not round 1 so we still lost. Now I do agree with expertise requirements and no bolster in ranked to keep the PVE/conquest derps out. But fix the damn daily/weekly as there's hardly any point in staying in a match where, due to the wonders of EAware elo matchmaking, it's a herculean effort to even get 3 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOULCASTER Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Now fix the damn daily so losses count, wins count double. No it was intended like that so you have to queue and actually win, not just queue up and throw a match and collect ranked comms. I thought that was pretty obvious. There should be ***0**** comms given in RANKED play, if you ask me. People should get gear other ways. No one should be queuing up just to do a daily and just to get comms. That's part of the problem with ranked at the moment. You should be queuing ranked to prove and improve your skill and ELO rating. Not because it's the best way to get ranked comms and ranked gar. Just NO. Edited February 3, 2015 by SOULCASTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) No it was intended like that so you have to queue and actually win, not just queue up and throw a match and collect ranked comms. I thought that was pretty obvious. There should be ***0**** comms given in RANKED play, if you ask me. People should get gear other ways. No one should be queuing up just to do a daily and just o get comms. That's part of the problem with ranked at the moment. I thought it was pretty obvious that that set up creates an obvious incentive to...wait for it...win trade. There's no point in playing ranked unless you can guarantee yourself a win at some point, which win trading does. If you lose in ranked, especially as a healer (often first focused), you're hard pressed to get more than 3 medals unless the match was actually really close (pretty rare on my server as it's basically just 2 ranked teams on the entire server scheduling matches with each other). Throwing a match results in so few ranked comms that you'd actually be better off throwing a node in regs. Upon seeing your revised comment about ELO rating: I'd gladly queue to improve a valid ELO rating if I had any confidence whatsoever the system worked, but ranked in this game is so fatally flawed that the sample size is way too small for it to be remotely valid, at least on my server. (Further edit: Namely, the sample size is too small to even keep trolls out of the matches that contain people who actually do play to win.) Edited February 3, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DartDaya Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 completely normal play Would a player who is really bad at PVP be completely normal play? How would you know if they are deliberately being bad to troll warzones or they are genuinely are a bad player? Someone went 15-0 in the last week of play to get into the top tier reward. Nothing to say with that information alone that the player was win-trading. So all they need is 15 wins in a row to get top tier reward? What happens if you find out they are win trading? You'll just give them a warning? They aren't going to play ranked again because they would get their reward anyway.... They could just be an amazing player who jumped in at the last minute with min/maxxed PvP gear and got lucky in their match-ups. Or, they could be a win-trader. However, this one data point alone does not make a win-trader. So you've just confirmed you can't tell if someone is win trading or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_cpa Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Here's a crazy thought about fixing win trading once and for all. Would this be too difficult to implement? Would it be unworkable for other reasons? Changes that would be implemented: 1. Rating is tied to legacy. Get rid of character ratings. You win on any character and your legacy rating goes up. You lose and your legacy rating goes down. This would span across factions. 2. Ratings listings. The character with the most matches played on any one account during that season will be classified as the main and will display the legacy rating. This could be expanded so that the "main" character is treated as a "parent" and additional "child" characters will be displayed as well as long as those additional characters have individually met a specified minimum number of matches played. 3. Rewards. Once the appropriate legacy rank is achieved at the end of the season, the rewards are available to the character with the most matches played on your legacy. Each additional character on that legacy can receive the rewards as well as long as THAT character has a specified minimum number of matches played. Edited February 3, 2015 by alex_cpa correction of word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothematic Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You raise some very, very valid questions Skarlson. Although I can't give you a detailed answer I will do my best. We have a lot of different data and a lot of different criteria we can look at to determine if someone is win-trading. As you can imagine, some behaviors could look suspicious, but could happen in completely normal play. Ex: Someone went 15-0 in the last week of play to get into the top tier reward. Nothing to say with that information alone that the player was win-trading. They could just be an amazing player who jumped in at the last minute with min/maxxed PvP gear and got lucky in their match-ups. Or, they could be a win-trader. However, this one data point alone does not make a win-trader. With any suspicious activity we will compare multiple sets of data that when combined can make a pretty complete picture on someone's intent. We also believe that us checking week over week on this will help us in more clearly finding this with ill-intent. -eric There were literally videos of people /stucking to throw games in ranked arenas last season that were forwarded to customer service and no action was taken against those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogski Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Thank you Eric for your responses. Its good to hear steps are being taken against wintraders. But I do have a couple questions regarding the topic at hand: -- Seeing that ranked arenas are PvPers "endgame" will anything be done to keep out those in full PvE gear? Having a player in full pve gear, around 1600 expertise is a massive handicap and a guaranteed loss. Maybe an expertise check before queueing and have the queue button grayed out with a notification "You must have 2018 expertise before queueing for this warzone." Having this in place will also lure PvE wintraders away given they would have to get a fullset of pvp gear before queueing up. -- Ranked trolls. There are a ton of ranked trolls on every server. Now I am not talking about wintraders. Wintraders and ranked trolls are two separate things. The goal for ranked trolls is to queue up and make their team lose purposely regardless who is on their team or who they are up against. They *want* to tank their rating for giggles. A simple "warning" isnt going to stop them from queuing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 This is a Good Thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Eric, Ranked can never be taken seriously unless you guys address the real issue at hand. There needs to be handicapping based on some real damn metrics of player performance, and your ability to Que for ranked should be governed by those metrics as well. That fixes 90% of the issues in ranked. Back in the day, I would have posted a long winded response on how and why this would work, but you guys don't seem to have ANY desire to fix the SYSTEMIC problems with Ranked, or general PVP, for that matter. In other words, you statement, and Alex's statement is equivalent to kissing babies, to the knowledgeable/hardcore crowd. I try not to be irritated, but it's hard when the "transparency" you offer doesn't fix the underlying issue. /stoptreatingthesymtoms Edited February 3, 2015 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuMoraf Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Assuming their apparent resources stayed the same not much different than what they're doing, but with a differerence in consequences. The holes I mention exist mostly because this announcement is also a great guide on how to game things. Transparency often cuts both ways of course, but it's self-defeating to tell people how to deal with your plans to deal with them. But then again that post might just be a bogey and they're going to do different things or at different frequencies, which would be wise since it's now out there. I see what your saying. At this point though them outlining the general idea I think does more for the community then saying nothin. Making a post with a bluff statement saying "we have tools to figure it out" people would call them ou. I agree telling us the general idea in how they are monitoring it could be detrimental but at this point I think they need to be more upfront just so we know they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Please address the issue of solo queue trolls explicitly. Also, what RANDLE said is dead on. If only two 4-man teams are queuing (team imp - rating 2100, team pub - rating 957) it is stupid and pointless to play an even match between the two yet this is what are are told will happen if nobody else queues. (The response on this point is probably "not this season". Oh well, doing a better job with traders and trolls is something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGoldsilver Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 This is good news that they are worried about Win-Trading this season. I usually don't do ranked, but this helps to show that Bioware hasn't abandoned Pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVDF Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So, I have a question. If you get 8 people from your guild, try to make the teams as even as possible, and everyone actually tries to win, would they get action taken against their accounts? This would help people get a feel for ranked without hurting others' rating, but it's not win trading. As for trolls, I have a suggestion. In group finder, you can ignore someone and they won't get put with you again. Is it possible to do this with ranked queues? Yes, you have to deal with them once, but it's better than getting stuck with them multiple times and having your rating drop a lot. This is probably possible because it already works with group finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just get rid of the rating tied to Solo Ranked. With the current server population, solo ranked is RNG based on who you get on your team. There is no true metagame because a majority of the matches are 4 DPS v 4 DPS. Solo ranked should be where you go to grind out your ranked gear. Then you move on to team ranked to work for your rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovsie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Its gonna be hilarious seeing 1000exp sorc's in ranked. oh what an awesome system, BW FTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilk Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) In my opinion all the biggest problems with ranked PvP stem form the low population. Elo rating isn't designed to work with such a small population. It's tough to have ranked with out the real numbers to support it. Pretty much this. The population doesn't really support ranked play anymore. It really never did, not even back when 8's were a thing. But let's be real. How the heck can you really detect a team win traded when it's so easy to make it look like an actual game? Edited February 3, 2015 by Devilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalstonestar Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Nice idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I like how Bioware posts something positive for a change for pvp and the first couple pages are people ************ about other topics. I for one am glad they are paying more attention to this. Edited February 3, 2015 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Reaver Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 You raise some very, very valid questions Skarlson. Although I can't give you a detailed answer I will do my best. We have a lot of different data and a lot of different criteria we can look at to determine if someone is win-trading. As you can imagine, some behaviors could look suspicious, but could happen in completely normal play. Ex: Someone went 15-0 in the last week of play to get into the top tier reward. Nothing to say with that information alone that the player was win-trading. They could just be an amazing player who jumped in at the last minute with min/maxxed PvP gear and got lucky in their match-ups. Or, they could be a win-trader. However, this one data point alone does not make a win-trader. With any suspicious activity we will compare multiple sets of data that when combined can make a pretty complete picture on someone's intent. We also believe that us checking week over week on this will help us in more clearly finding this with ill-intent. -eric So what you saying is if you went 15-0 (could be by complete chance) you will look at it as win trading. How ever you have access to the chat channels and (hopefully) older data that you can base the win trading off. I'm only worried that maybe this is "my" season to get top tier finally I wouldn't want my rating or someone else who is lucky to lose rating due to a calculations. Also you starting s4 really too soon tbh class balance is way steep for some classes and well as (snipers and mercs) are once again gonna get **** on and have no rewards. P.s. At work just doing a quick post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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