Time to rethink your F2P model...

[Heat-Wave]

From the point of view of a 2 month f2p player who just started subscribing, their f2p feature is awesome. I played one character to 39, and a couple others to mid 20s. It was perfect and I didn't feel too restricted while I sampled the product to see if I found it worth paying for. I mean really, you can play any characters full class story for free. That alone is worth it, but add to that all the access to the group play. I literally ran into only a handful of restrictions while I played those two months.

 

1. Chat feature

2. I came across one artifact item I wanted to equip and alas could not

3. Quickslots

 

Maybe im the only one drawn in by the f2p that became a sub.

 

That is exactly what I think F2P is meant for. It is just the most ultimate trial ever. If you like the game, sub.

[SavantDreadtech]

they tried subscription only thing. didn't work out for them its why they went for hybrid model in a first place.

 

as for why would you subscribe when f2p is not as restricted. becasue subscription would still be beneficial. becasue subscription would still be a better deal. its not like there aren't any other hybrid games on the market - there are, its a very popular model. but they tend to go with carrot rather then stick aproach, unlike bioware.

 

some reward their subscribers by making any and all content expansions - free with subscription. subscription-less people have to buy each and every DLC individually. a lot of the games with cash shop - give a much more generous allowance of currency that we get with cartel coins.

 

here's an example of restriction for f2p vs subscription even in this very game that is more along the lines of subscription benefits. crafting. subscribers get to use 6 companions at lvl 56 and can queue up up to 5 tasks per companion. their crit chance is also twice as high as that of f2p. (10% for f2p, 20% for subscribers, and f2p can only use 3 companions at a time) while it IS a restriction, it doesn't stop player from crafting. its slower. but its essentially the same crafting. another example - vendor and respec costs . subscribers get everything cheaper and respecs for free. f2p - pay more and have increasing fee for each additional respec.

 

you CAN monetize f2p in a way that makes subscription appealing, without making f2p version of the game frustrating. and btw... how do you think pure f2p games make money? you know the ones that don't even have a subscription and don't resort to pay to win tactics. cash shop! people are actualy willing to spend money in small increments at their discretion for ONLY things they want WHEN they want them. and often end up paying more than just $15 a month.

 

and that's how f2p games get and keep customers instead of pushing them away.

 

and btw... how do you think pure f2p games make money?

 

By Advertisements! unless you can prove otherwise. and that's proof not just your say so. sure F2P will bring in a little income and a little is better than none. depend I guess on your definition of MAKE MONEY!

 

If F2P was more appealing I would just go F2P. nuff said.

Edited February 2, 2015 by SavantDreadtech

[krisknife]

The floodgates to gold farmers are already here, do you not read fleet chat?

 

The bigger issue is that if the credit cap were removed, I could go F2P tomorrow and not care, I have hundreds of millions of credits in the game, I can buy unlocks for everything and weekly passes off the GTN for the rest of the life of this game.

 

Except of course for the credit cap.

 

lol this is mild, I have seen way worse in allot of games. Expanded F2P with removed credit cap restrictions you will see what people spam can really spam spam spam xD.

 

This game was designed ground up to be sub based, f2p was a afterthought that intends/encourages for people to sub, it's fine as is. The idea that BW needed f2p to stay afloat died with the fact that in BWs own words subs still put more money in the game and way outspend in the CM. The CM saved SWToR not the f2p model lets get facts straight

Edited February 2, 2015 by krisknife

[Sir-steve]

From the point of view of a 2 month f2p player who just started subscribing, their f2p feature is awesome. I played one character to 39, and a couple others to mid 20s. It was perfect and I didn't feel too restricted while I sampled the product to see if I found it worth paying for. I mean really, you can play any characters full class story for free. That alone is worth it, but add to that all the access to the group play. I literally ran into only a handful of restrictions while I played those two months.

 

1. Chat feature

2. I came across one artifact item I wanted to equip and alas could not

3. Quickslots

 

Maybe im the only one drawn in by the f2p that became a sub.

 

It happened....WE GOT ONE!

 

Seriously, that's awesome.

[SavantDreadtech]

From the point of view of a 2 month f2p player who just started subscribing, their f2p feature is awesome. I played one character to 39, and a couple others to mid 20s. It was perfect and I didn't feel too restricted while I sampled the product to see if I found it worth paying for. I mean really, you can play any characters full class story for free. That alone is worth it, but add to that all the access to the group play. I literally ran into only a handful of restrictions while I played those two months.

 

1. Chat feature

2. I came across one artifact item I wanted to equip and alas could not

3. Quickslots

 

Maybe im the only one drawn in by the f2p that became a sub.

 

 

Thank you!

 

Same for me, Started playing the day after it became f2p, subs about 1 month later. This to me is the main reason why this and so many other mmo's did the F2P thing in the first place.

 

Still say if those F2P restrictions were watered down even a little I would go back to free to play.

[MorgenBlue]

The trading, mail and credit limitations are all because of gold spammers.

[krisknife]

Thank you!

 

Same for me, Started playing the day after it became f2p, subs about 1 month later. This to me is the main reason why this and so many other mmo's did the F2P thing in the first place.

 

Still say if those F2P restrictions were watered down even a little I would go back to free to play.

 

but why? seriously, the last f2p game I actively played i HAD to spend greater than $15 just to stay competitive , I don't see why so many people see an allure to this vs. straight cost of sub. Without the subs backing swtor here the game would be instantly p2w as any f2p ends up being to stay alive, they all start timid and they all end up the same exact way, again I don't get the draw there for players

 

So in other words, the more you push for f2p to be buffed, you are pushing to lose subs and stop people from being "encouraged" to sub, thus creating a need for BW to increase CM sales to make up loss and BOOM p2w items all around. This is a proven history with any f2p model, how about we not play with fire here and leave it as is ^^

Edited February 2, 2015 by krisknife

[XiamaraSimi]

but why? seriously, the last f2p game I actively played i HAD to spend greater than $15 just to stay competitive , I don't see why so many people see an allure to this vs. straight cost of sub. Without the subs backing swtor here the game would be instantly p2w as any f2p ends up being to stay alive, they all start timid and they all end up the same exact way, again I don't get the draw there for players

 

So in other words, the more you push for f2p to be buffed, you are pushing to lose subs and stop people from being "encouraged" to sub, thus creating a need for BW to increase CM sales to make up loss and BOOM p2w items all around. This is a proven history with any f2p model, how about we not play with fire here and leave it as is ^^

 

Because they dont think that far forward. They want everything free NAOW1!1!1!1

[jedimasterjac]

The point of f2p is to make you subscribe; they're not meant to stay f2p forever.

[Sorwen]

I think some of the restrictions hurt the game. I think it is more the XP, item restrictions, and nickle and diming things. As someone else said add value to subbing not just pay to remove restrictions on basic things. That would also give value to those of us that do sub. Part of the point of f2p is to keep people playing through times they would normally quit so that they will pay money or more money when they can. If you make the game such a hassle to play why should someone bother?

 

The other fall down is subs. Because once you decide to sub all you are really doing is getting rid of the restrictions. Usually there is more of a point to have subs as well. The little stipend of cartel coins really doesn't do it. Part of the point is subbing is supposed to be getting you free things. It is supposed to pay for those improvements and item updates between Expansions. Except our money goes to paying for new items created to be sold in the cartel market. That is more than a little cheap to do to people paying subs.

 

TLDR Stop with all the F2P restrictions and give some actual value to subbing instead of using our money just to make pay for items.

[hachibushu]

The point of f2p is to make you subscribe; they're not meant to stay f2p forever.

 

Yes, that's pretty obvious. But it's the carrot vs. the stick argument that people are discussing. And f2p in SWTOR is definitely stick, where in others that I play... Defiance, Rift, DCUO... it's more carrot.

[Kalfear]

ROFL, I guess I should have worded my reply this way.

 

 

I should have also added

 

You get what you pay for in Life and gaming

[Thoronmir]

I would rather wait till I can sub and not deal with those things then suffer through them and because of that despite some I disagree with, the F2P model did it's job which was to get me to sub.

^This^

 

My friends and I were Founders together at release and played for a few months before various issues made us stop (for me, my computer was unable to handle the game without serious issues ... eventually resolved with a better computer). When I finally returned (post-F2P), I was Preferred. I thought I'd try that for a while before deciding whether to reactivate my subscription. I "activated" a couple of my old characters, not all of them because ... ya know ... Preferred Status. Then I realized that I could neither Hide Helmet nor Unify Colors. That's all it took. I immediately renewed my sub and have remained subbed ever since. I was "Preferred" for about 15 minutes.

 

So, yeah, the F2P restrictions worked on me too.

 

I'm sure that EA/BW has a cadres of bean-counters locked in a dungeon running the math on the efficacy of their F2P restrictions: X players who quit (or never start) who might have eventually paid $ vs. Y players who sub to avoid all the headache vs. Z players who remain Preferred but spend $ on unlocks in the CM. The reason the game gets laggy sometimes is that the cloistered accountants use up computing capacity running different profit-loss scenarios: "If we tweak the credit limit this much, how does that affect the core profitability numbers?"

Edited February 2, 2015 by Thoronmir

[halcyon_havoc]

I need to modify my statement from before. My wanting to lift restrictions/pay for unlocks request was meant for Preferred players, not Free to Play players. Though they should base Preferred players' restrictions or lack thereof on whether they've subscribed before and if they've made CM purchases. Basically, a tiered unlock/ rewards system based on what they've put into the game.

[NeroTethras]

This is what the F2P offers.

 

• 
  Access to 8 well written, fully voiced acted storylines
  Access to All FPs that are voice acted
  All planetary storylines, they're also voice acted
  Now that ranked WZ's have been added, they have no limit on normal WZs
  The ability to create a guild with minor setbacks
  The ability to use in-game credits to receive raiding passes
  Several Companions across all 8 characters
  

 

They get this all completely free, this seems more like a carrot than a stick. Do other games offer other F2P models that are less restricting? Sure, but this game offers up what it does best and it serves the game well.

 

Besides, the only people that can't pony up 15 a month are teenagers under 16 that can't get a job. It's 3.75 per week, that's less than an hour of Minimum wage work. If the aforementioned gameplay offered to F2P members won't convince them to throw down 3.75 a week, then I find it hard to believe OP's ideas would change that.

 

Not trying to sound like some P2P elitist here, however Bio ware is providing more than enough in F2P as it is.

Edited February 2, 2015 by NeroTethras

[hachibushu]

This is what the F2P offers.

 

• 
  Access to 8 well written, fully voiced acted storylines
  Access to All FPs that are voice acted
  All planetary storylines, they're also voice acted
  Now that ranked WZ's have been added, they have no limit on normal WZs
  The ability to create a guild with minor setbacks
  The ability to use in-game credits to receive raiding passes
  Several Companions across all 8 characters
  

 

They get this all completely free, this seems more like a carrot than a stick. Do other games offer other F2P models that are less restricting? Sure, but this game offers up what it does best and it serves the game well.

 

Besides, the only people that can't pony up 15 a month are teenagers under 16 that can't get a job. It's 3.75 per week, that's less than an hour of Minimum wage work. If the aforementioned gameplay offered to F2P members won't convince them to throw down 3.75 a week, then I find it hard to believe OP's ideas would change that.

 

Not trying to sound like some P2P elitist here, however Bio ware is providing more than enough in F2P as it is.

 

The primary purpose of f2p isn't to get people to play for free, it is to get them to see the value of what they will be getting, and convert. It's not about not being able to pay $15 a month in most cases- it's not seeing the value in doing so. So, removing those two straw men right quick...

 

The restrictions places on f2p make many people unwilling to give the game it's fair shake because they are so restrictive, in experiencing the game they would be playing, and in seeing the actual value for the money spent. Therefore, the conversion rate is lower. Should there be restrictions? Yeah... but I see many ways they could make the restrictions move towards conversion and make it more logical, in all honesty. The choices made are the ones that require the least effort, and are definitely more stick than carrot, IMO.

[Kalfear]

The primary purpose of f2p isn't to get people to play for free, it is to get them to see the value of what they will be getting, and convert. It's not about not being able to pay $15 a month in most cases- it's not seeing the value in doing so. So, removing those two straw men right quick...

 

The restrictions places on f2p make many people unwilling to give the game it's fair shake because they are so restrictive, in experiencing the game they would be playing, and in seeing the actual value for the money spent. Therefore, the conversion rate is lower. Should there be restrictions? Yeah... but I see many ways they could make the restrictions move towards conversion and make it more logical, in all honesty. The choices made are the ones that require the least effort, and are definitely more stick than carrot, IMO.

 

If after getting all that they are unwilling to pay a small sub

 

NO AMOUNT of extra goodies for free will get them to pay the sub

 

Yours is the only strawman right now and you are flat out false in your assumption.

[Heat-Wave]

TLDR Stop with all the F2P restrictions and give some actual value to subbing instead of using our money just to make pay for items.

 

That would work better if the game had been designed with F2P from day one. It wasn't...

 

Since it was an addition to an existing game, this is what we have...

[Heat-Wave]

Besides, the only people that can't pony up 15 a month are teenagers under 16 that can't get a job. It's 3.75 per week, that's less than an hour of Minimum wage work. If the aforementioned gameplay offered to F2P members won't convince them to throw down 3.75 a week, then I find it hard to believe OP's ideas would change that.

 

^ This...

 

If you don't like the game enough to pay $15 a month, then frankly you aren't that serious about it... or are very cheap...

 

We have one guild member who plays every day, he raids, he WZ, he is quite good and very active, but he is F2P (preferred).

 

Why? His own self-professed reason, "I'm cheap, I don't don't want to pay for anything".

 

Nothing you do will convince him to sub, unless you remove weekly ops passes from the GTN. That might work.

[Transairion]

I won't bother to try and convince anyone of helping poor F2P's anymore (I had enough of while F2P and endless " just sub you cheapskate!" responses), but as far as "accurate information" goes...

 

 

Access to 8 well written, fully voiced acted storylines

 

You don't get 8 character slots as F2P, you get two.

 

Credit cap of 200,000 means you can't afford most GTN prices of extra character slot last time I bought one.

 

Access to All FPs that are voice acted

 

"All" is a bit generous, since it doesn't include anything after level 50. I'm not sure I've ever seen a group of pre-55 flashpoints being run more than once each.

 

All planetary storylines, they're also voice acted

 

This is true

 

Now that ranked WZ's have been added, they have no limit on normal WZs

 

Ranked WZ's existed back when I was F2P too mate, and you were still locked from doing more Warzones after 5 goes. The Weekly was 7 wins back then. 14 games now.

 

In my case, this "resetting limit" was also totally borked and never did reset so I did 5 WZ's and was locked out of ever doing another until I subbed.

 

The ability to create a guild with minor setbacks

 

I was under the impression Free to Play guilds can't even buy things like Guild Banks because they cost more than the 200,000 credit limit.

 

At that point it's little more than a way to get another "name" on your character.

 

The ability to use in-game credits to receive raiding passes

 

When the GTN prices them appropriately.

 

I can't mention how many times I tried to buy F2P-only unlocks on the GTN just to see they were twice, three FOUR times as much as the 200,000 credit cap. Subs selling F2P-relevant items only to other subs never made much sense to me.

 

Several Companions across all 8 characters

 

Er what? What kind of game would have a companion feature that doesn't even allow you to get all the base ones?

 

 

 

Coming from an actual former F2Per, F2P is awful and the only reason I didn't quit outright rather than sub was that I found an awesome guild. F2P is a miserable experience, you can't even use chat (even to ask for help!) more than once per minute.

 

 

Moreso, at least during my time it was a buggy mess and there is zero ingame or forum customer support for F2P, so it's basically "deal with it, sub, or get out".

 

It could be a lot better, and it certainly isn't a carrot... it's super abusive and tries to bully you into subbing, or leave.

 

 

Preffered, which means you've actually paid money but not a sub (big waste of money there) is only marginally better, and I did go and buy every Unlock F2P/Pref's can get... and it barely improved gameplay from F2P.

 

It's sub or bust really, but you could never hear the F2P side of things because.... well, F2P aren't allowed to post on forums!

Edited February 2, 2015 by Transairion

[DarthVitrial]

I just feel like F2P/Preferred should be at least able to submit bug reports. Maybe not item refund requests or character stuck requests, but bug reports definitely.

 

After all, bug fixes benefit all of us, subscribers included.

 

If they're worried about overloading the system, just add a limit...one report a day for F2P, five a day for preferred, or something.

Edited February 2, 2015 by DarthVitrial

[gbrumback]

I've played a few MMO's over the last 7-8 years, starting with WoW. From what I have seen, SWTOR has a generous program for F2P. Unless WoW has changed things they never had a free option, unless you counted the free trial period of like 2 weeks. And I doubt anyone can argue the success of WoW. Even SWG only had a free trial period of a week or two before you had to pay. Other games I have played offer F2P, but you are level capped substantially lower then subs, or are restricted to certain areas of the game. So, IMO, the restrictions here on F2P are pretty good in contrast to other games I have played. But, like I said at the beginning of this post. I have by no means played every MMO every released. Probably just a small fraction of them.

[Heat-Wave]

You don't get 8 character slots as F2P, you get two.

 

Credit cap of 200,000 means you can't afford most GTN prices of extra character slot last time I bought one.

 

1. You can always buy the unlocks off the CM.

 

2. You can always delete a toon and roll another.

 

3. You can always roll a 3rd alt on another server. Using all the servers, you easily can do all 8 class stories without deleting anything. Doesn't match them into a Legacy, but hey, you aren't paying anything either.

 

Preffered, which means you've actually paid money but not a sub (big waste of money there) is only marginally better, and I did go and buy every Unlock F2P/Pref's can get... and it barely improved gameplay from F2P.

 

Of course it is only a marginal improvement... If it was more than that why sub?

 

I've bought the various unlocks from the GTN getting ready to go F2P when my sub runs out, but the biggest issue will be credits. I have a lot of them that will be locked up and not accessible, but frankly this may not matter as I've run out of things to buy anyway...

[Jeweledleah]

I've played a few MMO's over the last 7-8 years, starting with WoW. From what I have seen, SWTOR has a generous program for F2P. Unless WoW has changed things they never had a free option, unless you counted the free trial period of like 2 weeks. And I doubt anyone can argue the success of WoW. Even SWG only had a free trial period of a week or two before you had to pay. Other games I have played offer F2P, but you are level capped substantially lower then subs, or are restricted to certain areas of the game. So, IMO, the restrictions here on F2P are pretty good in contrast to other games I have played. But, like I said at the beginning of this post. I have by no means played every MMO every released. Probably just a small fraction of them.

 

people have GOT to stop comparing games to WoW. wow is an exception NOT the rule. it was released at the right time, back when it was quite literally the ONLY casual option. moreover... niche subscription games that have free trials? (or even WoW for that matter) do NOT advertise themselves as f2p. SWTOR does. and as such - it should be compared to OTHER games on a market that advertise themselves as free to play/hybrid games. better yet - lets compare it to games that were originally released as subscription only and then switched to f2p/hybrid model. and when you start comparing apples to apples? SWTOR's model is quite frankly? terrible

[Shyroma]

I'm a subscriber too, and I agree 100%. The F2P model in SWTOR is by far, the worst I've seen in an MMORPG with a sub option. It limits the dumbest things, like titles, head toggle, UI, talking a certain amount (not even kidding, I was F2P and noticed when I subbed that there was no "wait period" between posting messages in chat), when you can get certain things like increased running speed, and mounts. Not to mention F2P can't even craft properly. Just an awful F2P model. Look to Rift for a decent F2P model.