OddballEasyEight Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think everyone knows my stance on this subject by now, so I assume I don't have to explain to everyone? Good. Now, let me just say this to the OP: You are taking this WAY too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think everyone knows my stance on this subject by now, so I assume I don't have to explain to everyone? Good. Now, let me just say this to the OP: You are taking this WAY too seriously. You are welcome to let your rights be trampled on. I choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 That's the beauty of filing an official complaint with a government agency who's primary directive is to protect consumers. try that...and make sure you get video of the ensuing laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I didn't realize the laws in Canada oversaw what a business did in Texas. Actually, except for EU and Republic of Korea players, we all signed a contract with a 'Choice of Law' provision designating California law as the applicable law for all disputes relating to the services provided. Since you're a Texan I apologize if the news makes you feel unclean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Actually, except for EU and Republic of Korea players, we all signed a contract with a 'Choice of Law' provision designating California law as the applicable law for all disputes relating to the services provided. Since you're a Texan I apologize if the news makes you feel unclean. I must take 5 showers to wash this filth you have thrown at me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) 6. Updates to the Service; Notices. ... IMPORTANT: BIOWARE MAY FIND IT NECESSARY TO MAKE CHANGES TO, OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS TO BALANCE GAME PLAY AND USAGE OF TOR SERVICES. THESE CHANGES OR "RESETS" MAY AFFECT CHARACTERS OR GAMES OR GROUPS UNDER YOUR CONTROL AND MAY CAUSE YOU SETBACKS WITHIN THE RELEVANT GAME WORLD. BIOWARE RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE THESE CHANGES AND IS NOT LIABLE TO YOU FOR THESE CHANGES. Terms of Service. Everyone here agreed to them. You waived all rights to hold them liable for this change. Edited January 26, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I must take 5 showers to wash this filth you have thrown at me away. pretty sure using that much water violates california law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Have you read the ToS? Show me the latest case where a judge upheld a ToS agreement please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 pretty sure using that much water violates california law... All the more reason to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Show me the latest case where a judge upheld a ToS agreement please. All of us effectively signed a liability waiver / release. Those are upheld in court. Edited January 26, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capote Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Actually, except for EU and Republic of Korea players, we all signed a contract with a 'Choice of Law' provision designating California law as the applicable law for all disputes relating to the services provided. Since you're a Texan I apologize if the news makes you feel unclean. I find this discussion really interesting and would love to know how the legal system works in different countries, so I'll speak a bit about mine's in case anyone cares about this subject too. Depending on certain local laws (such as in the country I live) this clause may be null, which means it won't be applied in order to protect me as a costumer (theoretically). By the other hand, there is a big jurisprudential discussion about the nature of such contract, where it was actually signed and where the services are provided. In resume (and again, using as base entirely my countr's law), it is not an easy subject if this contract can be questioned at a court in my country or not, even considering that there is an EA games branch in here. Edited January 26, 2015 by Capote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Show me the latest case where a judge upheld a ToS agreement please. same place where any judge let a stupid lawsuit like this exist beyond the 30 seconds it took to issue the law equivalent of a ban hammer. "The Terms-of-Service Agreement, is mainly used for legal purposes, by websites and internet service providers, that store a user's personal data, such as e-commerce and social networking services. A legitimate terms-of-service agreement, is legally binding, and may be subject to change." Source Wikipedia EULA are typically not worth the paper (electrons?) printed with..but ToS are infact binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Show me the latest case where a judge upheld a ToS agreement please. Show me the latest case where a judge punished a company for a nerf in a computer game. Computer games constantly change, that's part of the type of product it is. It's not a car where an airconditioning suddenly doesn't cool anymore. But people should feel free to spend lots of money on lawyers if they really think this simplistic interpretation will actually hold up in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 So... Are you gonna sue BW? No? Then whats the point of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have used the services of my Ministry of Government and Consumer Services in a dispute where a major automotive company had implemented a policy contrary to the Unfair Practices section of my province's Consumer Protection Act. After involving said government agency, the automaker mysteriously reversed its position on the subject of my complaint and the charge disappeared from my bill. I have taken the time to highlight 2 "examples" clearly laid out in the Act that may apply: the first as a "False, misleading or deceptive representation" and the second as an "Unconscionable representation". The Ministry of Government and Consumer Services has an online form to submit your complaint here: http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/pages/contact.aspx or by calling: 416-326-8800 or 1-800-889-9768 Here in Ontario, the Consumer Protection Act, 2002 states: Wahhhh Wahhh - Slot machine, Wahaaa wahaaaaa, but I want.... Sorry - just translating and paraphrasing for those that cannot be bothered to read your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherLuV Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yea, while I agree completely that the changes they made would surely violate some consumer laws in certain areas... what they did was completely legal, because they did it in the US... The beauty of the ToS... They follow a set of laws written in a certain area and no matter where you playing from your agreeing to play under those laws, not your own areas. Is it right? no... but again, that's the beauty of this corrupt country known as the United States of ********... (no this specific incident has nothing to do with the corrupt policies and governing of this country but... i mean come on, gotta admit US of ******** is a better name...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Yea, while I agree completely that the changes they made would surely violate some consumer laws in certain areas... what they did was completely legal, because they did it in the US... The beauty of the ToS... They follow a set of laws written in a certain area and no matter where you playing from your agreeing to play under those laws, not your own areas. Is it right? no... but again, that's the beauty of this corrupt country known as the United States of ********... (no this specific incident has nothing to do with the corrupt policies and governing of this country but... i mean come on, gotta admit US of ******** is a better name...) The hell are you talking about? It violates no laws because the player agreed to these terms. It doesn't matter what country it happened in. Take your offensive attitude elsewhere. Edit: If you truly know it to be a violation of law, then go sue EA. I can't wait to see the headlines of GopherLuv v. Contraband Slot Machine. I'm sure you'll walk away rich after taking down the mighty EA... Edited January 26, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feargal Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yea, while I agree completely that the changes they made would surely violate some consumer laws in certain areas... what they did was completely legal, because they did it in the US... The beauty of the ToS... They follow a set of laws written in a certain area and no matter where you playing from your agreeing to play under those laws, not your own areas. Is it right? no... but again, that's the beauty of this corrupt country known as the United States of ********... (no this specific incident has nothing to do with the corrupt policies and governing of this country but... i mean come on, gotta admit US of ******** is a better name...) Now don't go bashing 'murica. That will really get folks riled up. It's the worst country on Earth, except for all the other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defecter Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Sueing BioWare and by extension EA? Even if they came into your house, murdered your entire family right in front of you and you had it on tape, from several angles, you'd be hard-pressed to win any lawsuit against them within your lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Have you read the ToS? Contract terms don't trump consumer protection laws, dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yea, while I agree completely that the changes they made would surely violate some consumer laws in certain areas... what they did was completely legal, because they did it in the US... No, they did it everywhere Eric Musco's posts went. If you stand in upstate New York and fire a gun into Canada, you will be called on to answer for your act in Canada, under Canadian law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Contract terms don't trump consumer protection laws, dummy. No, they are used in conjunction with each other unless the contract laws are deemed unfair. An example being if I agree to a 20 year subscription to a bird watching magazine and on early teermination I need to sacrifice my first born to the devil. That would be classed as an unfair contract and I would be able to successfully argue this. With this game you were told that by playing the game you would be bound by the terms and conditions which you had the full opportunity to read prior to playing. There is nothing "unfair" in these T&C's - all rather straight forward - The game is ours, we can do waht we like with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Contract terms don't trump consumer protection laws, dummy. The bigger issue with those two are when a contract is found to be so muddled in its wording that the person agreeing can't understand it. However, the SWTOR ToS regarding balance are quite clear and understandable for anyone 18+. The fact that people did not read them does not make Bioware liable. Edited January 26, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Size-Matters-Not Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 INAL, but I would think you'd have to prove intentional bait and switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixcoatl Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Show me the latest case where a judge upheld a ToS agreement please. Blizzard v. Ceiling Fan Software Another case where ToS and a EULA were upheld: MDY Industries, LLC v. Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. The Court agreed with Blizzard's arguments that WoW purchasers were not legal owners of the game software but instead licensees. As licensees, players are required to make use of the software within the scope of the End User License Agreement. In the terms of that agreement, Blizzard specifically prohibited "the use of bots or third-party software to modify the WoW experience."[1] Thus, the Court found that players who use the Glider program violated the TOU and were not licensed to use WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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