Tait/Eric, some of us would like to talk to you about the Slot Machine changes.

[Neglience]

Well, see, I actually disagree there.

 

Yes, it is a slot machine....but I would rather see this as a game mechanic that provides rewards at a cost. I would rather see the machine provide little if any refund of credits, making it an effective credit sink.

 

IMO the only items you should be able to sell are rep items....everything else you could get should be bound, that includes certs provided items and decorations, mats, the walker, etc.

 

If they were going to provide the ability to get mats, it should have been mats that you could not sell....the way to do that would have been to create a UNIVERSAL MAT that would have had green, blue or purple quality and could be used as a mat substitute, but would be bound to you.

 

THAT, IMO would have been much better as a prize from this machine. I would even go so far as to say that it would better from crew scavenge missions as well.

 

Put it short: You want a semi-afk farmable gaining machine. BW could also add a button like the CM button to HUD and everytime you click it, you get a reward.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Neglience

[LordArtemis]

Put it short: You want a semi-afk farmable gaining machine. BW could also add a button like the CM button to HUD and everytime you click it, you get a reward.

 

Hmm.

 

I suppose crew missions are not AFK. And of course gathering mats requires a herculean effort.

 

Iceskating uphill I see.

 

I think you are desperately finding ways to criticize this thing, perhaps because you stood so staunchly against it before and cant seem to get off that kick.

 

At any rate, your comments against have become little more than exaggerated hyperbole. If you would like to provide a real, actual detriment to the idea of bound rewards I would love to hear it.

 

Of course you could continue with hyperbole if you wish.

Edited January 23, 2015 by LordArtemis

[OddballEasyEight]

Put it short: You want a semi-afk farmable gaining machine. BW could also add a button like the CM button to HUD and everytime you click it, you get a reward.

 

They already have... it's in the shape of a diamond.

 

You press that and you get a menu to pick from as to what kind of rewards you want for one more button press...

[Draqsko]

The nerf on purple jawa junk is about right, everything else can be changed, as long as the machine is a gambling machine. It should be in no way a machine, where pressing it for one hour equals a win of x amount of credits. But it also needs some good jackpot rewards, not some recolored mounts.

 

When you use 100k on the machine, you should get 110k credits from time to time, or 90k from time to time. And with some luck, you get a jackpot.

 

If this is really your argument, how would you feel about totally removing jawa scrap from the machine.

 

Put the drop rate from the scrap as a loss, return the other percentages to where they were, adjust the token price to where they deem a cartel certificate should be worth.

 

A 2% drop rate on cartel certs is not game breaking, you can increase the cost via the token price, once its over 500 you negate alot of the return of the rep chips.

 

If you actually tried to argue for that kinda of nerf instead of supporting the one we got, you might have more people inclined to listen to you. I know I would for one because I don't care about the mats, I got stacks and stacks in my cargo bays. I get stacks every week just from doing conquests.

 

I'll be honest, I got it for the cartel certs so I could get decorations for myself and my guild. I don't use it for anything else besides that. I don't need a jackpot, I don't need credits, I don't need mats, I don't need an ugly walker (really they could put the drop rate on that to 50% and make it vendorable for twice the amount of credits you spent to get it and I still wouldn't be interested in the machine).

 

Many of us are justifiably upset about the stealth nerf of certs, especially when we waited to get the machine until there was a statement concerning the drop rate. When that statement and the subsequent patch notes gave ABSOLUTELY NO INDICATION that the cert drop rate was an issue, yet it was patched to oblivion I think you can understand why we would feel ripped off and decieved.

 

I get it, Jawa Junk needed to be nerfed, it broke crew missions, economy, blah blah blah.. Well decorations wouldn't have broke the economy and that was the only thing cartel certs give. Please defend that nerf..

 

PS. Your example isn't a gambling machine, your payout would be higher than 100% if you balance the 110%-90% and have a jackpot hit once in awhile too. It would be a literal credit printing machine, which the slot machine isn't. The slot machine sinks credits out of the game, period. It sank 30% outright, with another 6% of every GTN sale of mats and decos. If you sold those mats and decos for the max price before the slot machine, you would have sunk more credits out of the economy than you put into the machine in the first place(GTN tax adds up fast on high price items).

Edited January 23, 2015 by Draqsko

[Krensky]

b.) remove the machines and refund everyone who bought any of the Acolyte packs ( since there'd be no "metric" as to who was buying for the pack itself and who was buying to get machines ), in which case they'll all be out of a job since EA has shuttered entire games and their studios for less monetary loss.

 

While there maybe some hinky accounting rules that would make this be recorded as a loss, it's not really. They'd just be returning cartel coins, not actual money.

[LordArtemis]

Yea, I think the goal is to return the appeal of the machine but keep it as an effective credit sink.

 

Bound universal mats would do that IMO.

[Draqsko]

While there maybe some hinky accounting rules that would make this be recorded as a loss, it's not really. They'd just be returning cartel coins, not actual money.

 

It wouldn't be recorded as a loss, because they still keep your money. Only if you do a chargeback do they actually record as well as take a loss.

[Transcendent]

you make the assumption that the economy/market was in good shape. it wasnt. enough so that biowart wanted to make mats more available...they havent

 

Well, they have.... but the trouble with restricting the machines so heavily now is that they've overnight reversed that effect by again, restricting the supply.

 

Let's face it, if you've gained x number of purple mats from one of these machines, are you suddenly going to start selling them at low prices now the supply has been reverted back to (essentially) crew missions?

 

Ideally BioWare need to fix the crew missions, so time spent having a companion out is lowered. That's literally all they need to do, lower the time on crew missions to something more reasonable than ~3 hours. They could tinker with it, but even lowering the time to ~1 hour would increase the supply of grade 11 purple mats available. No tinkering with RNG etc, just a simple lowering of the time.

 

Then they could simply adjust the slots loot table to something sensible like;

 

Lose - 34.5%

win_token - 40%

win_troph_small - 8%

win_trophy_medium - 3.5%

win_trophy_large - 2%

win_scavenged_scrap - 7%

win_droid_parts - 2.5%

win_jawa_junk -1%

win_certificate - 1%

win_imp_mount - 0.25%

win_rep_mount - 0.25%

Total: 100%

 

Still lower odds on Jawa Junk, so you'd get ~1 per 100 tokens and the a same for certs. However the time spent would increase, as would the chance increase of a loss (compared to the original odds). Also the return rate on Reputation Tokens being vendored back would result in a more effective credit sink overall.

 

If the point of the machines was to make more mats available as well as allow a way of earning reputation on older items, and a means of buying them from the vendor, then this would be a more sensible approach. Overall it should cost you to earn that reputation, and that time factor should be introduced. Equally the ability to earn materials should be there, but not at the expense of crew missions being an inefficient method of gathering.

 

With an increased re-roll and loss chance you would have to weigh up the costs of gathering traditionally or using the slot machine.

 

So in effect the slot machine would be;

 

- Earn reputation (reduced from original rate)

- Earn certificates (reduced from original rate)

- Potentially earn materials (reduced from original rates) but not at the expense of crew missions (if they were adjusted accordingly)

- Effective credit sink.

- Effective time sink.

- Potential to earn a shiny mount ()

[LordArtemis]

I think a lucky buff and universal mats bound to you, as well as bound decorations that you purchase is the way to go.

[ivanhedgehog]

I think this is the best compromise. There is no need to have the items unbound IMO. The importance is providing access, not providing an income source.

 

the stuff gotten from certs(or the certs themselves) shouldnt be BOP any more than the rewards from crafting missions if biowart is going to claim that there are alternate methods for aquiring things, they need to make them viable.

[LordArtemis]

the stuff gotten from certs(or the certs themselves) shouldnt be BOP any more than the rewards from crafting missions if biowart is going to claim that there are alternate methods for aquiring things, they need to make them viable.

 

Viable, as in having the ability to sell them on the market?

 

No, I don't agree. The ACCESS to them is what's important. Being able to sell them to make a profit is not. The slot machine should NOT be a money printing machine IMO.

 

The fact it basically was is why we have this nuclear nerf in the first place.

[ivanhedgehog]

I think a lucky buff and universal mats bound to you, as well as bound decorations that you purchase is the way to go.

 

why should gathering missions be more useful than the slot machine? and why should the slot machine be any more useful than gathering missions? neither way has some virtue over the other. just because 1 was made first does not make it the end all. all these attempts to limit the availability of mats do not help the game.

 

how about this...remove both methods and make a vendor that sells the mats for what biowart wants them to cost..problem solved.

[BlackEyeArtistry]

So, how exactly could you guys post something like this:

 

 

 

And then change the drop rates of the machine to these extremes:

 

EDIT: Removed the new slot machine chances because, apparantly, posts with those were being removed...

 

I did an experiment to see if those numbers were true or exaggerated and here's what I got for exactly 100 coins:

 

 

 

 

100 coins.

 

Gave me this.

 

 

 

 

So going through exactly 100 coins I got 0 jawa junk, 0 droid parts, 0 scavanged scrap, 0 certificates, 0 mounts, 26 green rep tokes, 13 blue rep tokens and 4 purple rep tokens.

 

This just screams of knee-jerk reaction to the whining on the forums.

 

I'm not saying the machine shouldn't be changed (I suggested changing the odds of getting the jawa scrap to the same as the rep tokens earlier), but this has made the machine completely uninteresting for anyone who has maxed out the rep for that pack.

It's not even a slightly viable option for crafters any more.

 

The coins cost me 75.000 credits.

My return on selling the rep items was 36.000 credits.

And there was absolutely no gain from it whatsoever.

 

 

So I ask you, how did it go from "there's nothing wrong with the machine, it's working as intended but we'll look at the drop rates of Jawa Junk because of the feedback on the forums" to "we have changed all the droprates so that you will get hardly any jawa scrap of any sort from the machine and we've also increased the price of using the machine"

 

I'm just curious as to how you arrived that that solution.

 

Because right now the machines are pointless to most of us. They certainly aren't "a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event".

I seriuosly doubt anyone will use them at all now.

 

Great post OP. I put 4 of these machines in our guild flagship and people were always in there playing those machines. Now our cantina gambling room is empty. In my opinion they killed this fun activity.

[LordArtemis]

why should gathering missions be more useful than the slot machine? and why should the slot machine be any more useful than gathering missions? neither way has some virtue over the other. just because 1 was made first does not make it the end all. all these attempts to limit the availability of mats do not help the game.

 

how about this...remove both methods and make a vendor that sells the mats for what biowart wants them to cost..problem solved.

 

Limit availability? How does having the mats bound to you limit availability?

 

That is nonsense.

[ivanhedgehog]

Viable, as in having the ability to sell them on the market?

 

No, I don't agree. The ACCESS to them is what's important. Being able to sell them to make a profit is not. The slot machine should NOT be a money printing machine IMO.

 

The fact it basically was is why we have this nuclear nerf in the first place.

 

why should 1 way be able to sell them but the other cant? there is no good reason for a distinction. make them decently balanced and let both sell or let neither sell. that will eliminate the problem.

[ivanhedgehog]

Limit availability? How does having the mats bound to you limit availability?

 

That is nonsense.

 

if I cant give them to a guildy, I cant take advantage of "will trade 37 resolve hilt for mats + tip" then you have limited availability. why do you insist on giving preferential treatment to 1 method?

Edited January 23, 2015 by ivanhedgehog

[LordArtemis]

why should 1 way be able to sell them but the other cant? there is no good reason for a distinction. make them decently balanced and let both sell or let neither sell. that will eliminate the problem.

 

No good reason eh?

 

Here is a good reason. No need for it. Plenty of stuff to sell on the market. The only reason to want to use the machine to create items you can sell (other than rep tokens of course) would be greed.

 

And I would speculate the VAST majority of machine users would not mind if the items were bound. Those that do mind...well...I think their intent is clear.

 

Just as clear as those that would have issue with bound mats and decorations because it takes money out of their pockets since they could not sell those items to those that have them from the machine.

 

It is greed. And any suggestions based on greed should be flat out rejected and ignored IMO.

[LordArtemis]

if I cant give them to a guildy, I cant take advantage of "will trade 37 resolve hilt for mats + tip" then you have limited availability. why do you insist on giving preferential treatment to 1 method?

 

Because it is smart. And because it would likely make the most folks happy.

 

I don't care about the fringe. I want to appease the masses.

 

...give them to a guildy? They can use the machine and get one themselves.

Edited January 23, 2015 by LordArtemis

[ivanhedgehog]

No good reason eh?

 

Here is a good reason. No need for it. Plenty of stuff to sell on the market. The only reason to want to use the machine to create items you can sell (other than rep tokens of course) would be greed.

 

And I would speculate the VAST majority of machine users would not mind if the items were bound. Those that do mind...well...I think their intent is clear.

 

Just as clear as those that would have issue with bound mats and decorations because it takes money out of their pockets since they could not sell those items to those that have them from the machine.

 

It is greed. And any suggestions based on greed should be flat out rejected and ignored IMO.

 

the only reason you run crafting missions all day is greed. and any suggestion based on greed should be flat out rejected and ignored IMO.

[ivanhedgehog]

Because it is smart. And because it would likely make the most folks happy.

 

I don't care about the fringe. I want to appease the masses.

 

only the fringe take advantage of crafters offering their services huh? lots of fringe on the fleet every night.

[LordArtemis]

the only reason you run crafting missions all day is greed. and any suggestion based on greed should be flat out rejected and ignored IMO.

 

Wrong, and that is hyperbole. There are plenty of reasons to run crew missions all day besides greed.

 

I, for one, do not sell high end mats, nor purchase them. I run crew missions to get the mats I need to craft for myself. The only items I usually sell are aug kits. And they need green mats.

 

Just stop.

Edited January 23, 2015 by LordArtemis

[ivanhedgehog]

only the fringe take advantage of crafters offering their services huh? lots of fringe on the fleet every night.

 

i am always hearing my guildies saying " sure ill make that relic for you, just send me the mats" why do you insist on creating low rent mats that are second class citizens?

[LordArtemis]

only the fringe take advantage of crafters offering their services huh? lots of fringe on the fleet every night.

 

Im sorry....WHAT?

 

Ivan, why do you want unbound items and mats. Just CLEARLY answer that please. You seem pretty bent on it.

[LordArtemis]

i am always hearing my guildies saying " sure ill make that relic for you, just send me the mats" why do you insist on creating low rent mats that are second class citizens?

 

So let me see if I understand you correctly.

 

If I am correct, you feel that binding them somehow makes them inferior to other mats....because you lose the ability to trade them.

 

Is that what you are contending?

[ivanhedgehog]

Wrong, and that is hyperbole. There are plenty of reasons to run crew missions all day besides greed.

 

I, for one, do not sell high end mats, nor purchase them. I run crew missions to get the mats I need to craft for myself. The only items I usually sell are aug kits. And they need green mats.

 

Just stop.

 

name 1 reason to run a crafting mission that doesnt revolve around greed? 1? you want the reward from that mission, plain and simple. anything else is just stupid. there is NOTHING wrong with that greed. it makes the world go round. but dont try to tell us you are running gathering missions "for the children"