So is the Warrior now just the random Sith that has a title but no actual authority ?

[BrianDavion]

I suspectt he wraith will end up the defacto "supreme military executor of the empire" in otherwords the dark council might manage stuff, but the wraith will be the one whom impliments stuff. that would be the direction I'd go in, because it'd basicly put the wraith in the same role as vader

[Darth_Wicked]

I suspectt he wraith will end up the defacto "supreme military executor of the empire" in otherwords the dark council might manage stuff, but the wraith will be the one whom impliments stuff. that would be the direction I'd go in, because it'd basicly put the wraith in the same role as vader

 

Are you mistyping "Wraith" instead of "Wrath" or are you trying to reference something else?

[TalonVII]

Dumb question, what If you left Intelligence (like my agent did), what you just get dragged back into Sith Intelligence kicking and screaming and made the head?

[Exosasa]

dumb question, what if you left intelligence (like my agent did), what you just get dragged back into sith intelligence kicking and screaming and made the head?

 

\ / _____ _

\ / | / \

\/ | __ / \

| | / ____ \

| | / \

| |______ / \

 

 

EDIT: That was supposed to spell out "YEA" :'c

Edited January 22, 2015 by Exosasa

[Kayriel]

Neither did the Agent, and he's in charge of Intelligence. Neither did the BH, and he has supreme Imperial Authority. Neither did the JK, but he's the Battlemaster. Neither (I think..?) did the Consular, but he's on the council.

 

Get my jist?

 

Didn't get the chance to play the Agent and BH versions of the new content yet , so far i went through only the inquisitor ( Deception Assassin is my main ) and the warrior stories , so i did not know that . as for the republic guys , as far as i remember , the positions you mention were given to them at the end of their class stories , so if they still have them... then basically nothing changed there )

 

Also , now that you mention it , the agent was given a choice at the end of the class story ( and i choose to be freelance ) where he would choose his own path and he was put in charge of Sith Intelligence if he decided to stay with the Sith , but now , Lana is in charge of that , so the guys who choose DS at that point , kind of got screwed , a bit huh ?! )

[Jedi_riches]

Just out of interest can someone please tell me what the Warriors role is on Yavin 4 (I rarely play imperials so it will take a long time for me to find out).

 

I know that at the end of his class mission he is declared as the Emperors Wrath so does that mean he is fighting to stop the emperor coming back? effectively fighting against the title he holds, as without the emperor what is he really.

[DogeDandolo]

Just out of interest can someone please tell me what the Warriors role is on Yavin 4 (I rarely play imperials so it will take a long time for me to find out).

 

I know that at the end of his class mission he is declared as the Emperors Wrath so does that mean he is fighting to stop the emperor coming back? effectively fighting against the title he holds, as without the emperor what is he really.

 

*Empire's Wrath.

 

As in, sword and shield of the Empire as a whole.

[Exosasa]

*Empire's Wrath.

 

As in, sword and shield of the Empire as a whole.

 

More like sword and sword.

[SotmrShadowsong]

Honestly, making him some sort of subordinate to a random Dark Councilor or an overglorified "fist" of the Empire would be a disservice. I'm sure every IQ player out there would love to have no challengers, but the Wrath simply deserves more. Not to worry though, I think old Wrath is about to make a comeback. By about, I mean early 2016 Bioware time.

[Tfranco]

I thought the sith warrior did have a small power base? No where near the size of the inquisitors, but a small one. For some reason I remember Lt. Pierce talking about training "Your forces", that made me think I have some forces.

 

Anyway, the warrior does still have some authority the same way the hunter and agent do. They may not have huge power bases, but they have friends in high places (Dark council members) or:

 

Depending on the agents choices, you are the head or at least high ranking member of sith intelligence (I swear i remember being given complete control by jadus)

 

 

Also they are incredibly powerful in their own rights, back to the warrior being the (now ex) wrath he had enough power to purge the council if need be otherwise the emperor wouldnt have bothered with him/her. The only council member that would give him/her trouble is Nox/Imperius/Occulus (Sorry i forgot the spelling).

 

It seems everyone is quick to underestimate the sith warrior because "Lol he not have lightning powah" but its just not true. (This is all from lore perspective, not gameplay.)

[Exosasa]

I thought the sith warrior did have a small power base? No where near the size of the inquisitors, but a small one. For some reason I remember Lt. Pierce talking about training "Your forces", that made me think I have some forces.

 

Anyway, the warrior does still have some authority the same way the hunter and agent do. They may not have huge power bases, but they have friends in high places (Dark council members) or:

 

Depending on the agents choices, you are the head or at least high ranking member of sith intelligence (I swear i remember being given complete control by jadus)

 

 

Also they are incredibly powerful in their own rights, back to the warrior being the (now ex) wrath he had enough power to purge the council if need be otherwise the emperor wouldnt have bothered with him/her. The only council member that would give him/her trouble is Nox/Imperius/Occulus (Sorry i forgot the spelling).

 

It seems everyone is quick to underestimate the sith warrior because "Lol he not have lightning powah" but its just not true. (This is all from lore perspective, not gameplay.)

 

Marr openly told the Warrior he wasn't scared of him precluding Oricon, and, TBH, Marr > Wrath

[jovianus]

The Warrior may be a match for most individual Council members, bar possibly Marr, but he's no match for their collective power, and they're not really likely to respond lightly to any attempt of his to 'purge' their numbers or otherwise interfere in their affairs.

 

Remember, the Agent did them, and the Empire, a huge favor by dealing with Jadus, and they still wanted him dead or otherwise leashed simply for daring to interfere in the affairs of the Council.

Edited January 26, 2015 by jovianus

[Kaisernick]

ok people need to face facts the force users go..

SI , JC

over

Sw , JK

 

The Consular is on the Jedi Council who lead ALL other jedi including other masters (Qui gon and Obi wan, before he got a seat were masters but followed the orders of the council)

 

So yes now that the emperor is gone the Warrior has lost some power but he is much like Vader, Vader didnt lead the empire but any force under his command did as they were told or face death, but when the Emperor called he answered.

 

You are not a run of the mill Sith, you are in a way the hand of the Dark council (and i doubt other members would argue, it may have been a while but they all feared Baras and you slapped him down) so you are powerful but the Inquisitor is now above you, they are one of many Sith who lead the Empire.

[d_dominic]

ok people need to face facts the force users go..

SI , JC

over

Sw , JK

 

The Consular is on the Jedi Council who lead ALL other jedi including other masters (Qui gon and Obi wan, before he got a seat were masters but followed the orders of the council)

 

So yes now that the emperor is gone the Warrior has lost some power but he is much like Vader, Vader didnt lead the empire but any force under his command did as they were told or face death, but when the Emperor called he answered.

 

You are not a run of the mill Sith, you are in a way the hand of the Dark council (and i doubt other members would argue, it may have been a while but they all feared Baras and you slapped him down) so you are powerful but the Inquisitor is now above you, they are one of many Sith who lead the Empire.

 

Not exactly, Wrath is out of system as he was before. He doesn't answer to the Dark Council, nor do they answer to him, only difference is that now there is no Emperor behind him so he has to be more careful not to provoke them to ally against him.

[Leaveshill]

Not exactly, Wrath is out of system as he was before. He doesn't answer to the Dark Council, nor do they answer to him, only difference is that now there is no Emperor behind him so he has to be more careful not to provoke them to ally against him.

 

+1, this. The Wrath doesn't "need" to answer to anyone, but he'd be wise to be careful as he couldn't hope to stand up against the Council, escpecially now that the Emperor went rogue. His lack of powerbase make his authority lacking, as he can't challenge the "bigger ups". He was actually lucky to be given the chance to kill Baras, in truth. Had Ravage been the leader and not Marr, then the Wrath would've been killed by the council on Korriban. Now that he has no "big, bad emperor" behind him, nobody would agree on any of his demands and while he enjoys freedom and many Sith will likely fear him, nobody on the Council would see any reason to bow to him. So while he's more "free" than most Sith, most of the Higher-ups (The ones that only answer to the Council, like Baras or Thanaton before their Council-seats) have more actual power than the Wrath. (In terms of manpower and resources).

 

Of course, as stated earlier here, the SI and JC have much more actual influence than the Wrath or the JK, as the "politicians" usually outrank the "warriors", and we can clearly see that by looking at their story-lines. Sidious(Inq) and Vader(Wrath), that's what they're going for with the two different classes of Force users.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Leaveshill

[Karkais]

Seems i am not the only one who thinks the warrior is now a random guy with a title given just for show )

 

Welcome to the world of Star wars.

 

+1, this. The Wrath doesn't "need" to answer to anyone, but he'd be wise to be careful as he couldn't hope to stand up against the Council, escpecially now that the Emperor went rogue. His lack of powerbase make his authority lacking, as he can't challenge the "bigger ups".

 

What is this powerbase you speak of? Its not like the game showcased the inquisitors powerbase in any way after the original class story ended, until the singular Rishi class story. so many years with absolutely nothing. The lack of evidence is such that Bioware could just as easily make me believe the warriors 'powerbase' is greater. There is so much depth missing from the characters backgrounds that it has moved beyond concepts such as "ridiculous" and "sad". For all I care, all classes are "random dudes with a title".

Edited January 27, 2015 by Karkais

[Exosasa]

Welcome to the world of Star wars.

 

 

 

What is this powerbase you speak of? Its not like the game showcased the inquisitors powerbase in any way after the original class story ended, until the singular Rishi class story. so many years with absolutely nothing. The lack of evidence is such that Bioware could just as easily make me believe the warriors 'powerbase' is greater. There is so much depth missing from the characters backgrounds that it has moved beyond concepts such as "ridiculous" and "sad". For all I care, all classes are "random dudes with a title".

 

Lol, I'm sorry? The warrior has his/her crew and possibly Lord Rathari, now that the Emperor has abandoned him.

 

Meanwhile, Nox has the Reclamation Service, at least one Military fleet with insta-1-shot fleet killers, dozens of Moffs with him, and has a joint armada with Darth Marr.

 

Not to mention being on the Dark Council gives him utmost authority.

 

With the Emperor gone, the Wrath, only a Lord in traditional ranks, has no powerbase. Zilch, zip, zada.

[Leaveshill]

Welcome to the world of Star wars.

 

 

 

What is this powerbase you speak of? Its not like the game showcased the inquisitors powerbase in any way after the original class story ended, until the singular Rishi class story. so many years with absolutely nothing. The lack of evidence is such that Bioware could just as easily make me believe the warriors 'powerbase' is greater. There is so much depth missing from the characters backgrounds that it has moved beyond concepts such as "ridiculous" and "sad". For all I care, all classes are "random dudes with a title".

 

You haven't played SI, have you?

You have a cult, possibly with Lord Paladius leading them. This cult is filled with the zealous fanatics, thousands of poor ready to slave for you. It's a fact that Paladius leads the cult for his own reasons if you spare him, but he's the best for you as well. You got a Sith Lord, cunning as few, leading your cult. This cult has worth a lot, it's a reason numerous Sith has tried to steal it from Paladius ("Better Sith than you have tried to steal my cult" - Paladius) Nox's cult is even applauded by Thanaton, stating that it's a worthy start.

You have one of the most promisings Moffs under you, with an entire fleet. You're also likely to add two other moffs, if you chose to spare Darth Achelon. Then you'll also end up with a powerful Sith Lord and Assassin, who also have his own dreadnaught and a large powerbase (Achelon alone possess more of a powerbase than the Wrath.), you can have Lord Skar as well (One of the most promosing young Sith warriors in our era), and a number of other sith. You have, at worst, ten times the Wrath's numbers.

You do also get most of Thanaton's old crew, that belonged to his master before him. You're a powerhouse, commanding large armies and being known as the "new" face of the Empire amongst the Moffs (as you're ready to drop tradition for facts, which is kind of your image, and if you refuse to say the "right" things then that's not relevant as you're supposed to be opposed to tradition as SI; and be all about what works and not).

 

The SI has a large fleet, a superweapon, a powerful cult, and a number of powerful siths under him. The Wrath has, at best, Rathari. What can he do? Nothing, he'd get assassinated by Achelon in the first day of the Kaggath, while Nox and his Dashade would personally go after the Wrath's crew while the Wrath was out doing something, then the Wrath would've been all alone and killed in an unfair fight.

 

If you belive that the Wrath has any powerbase at all worth mentioning, then you are not paying attention. It's clear that the Wrath's job is to be powerful, but he has no political power and no army at his back. A small special-force led by your sergeant isn't even comparable to what a Dark Council member possesses.

 

It's fine that you like the Wrath, but it's a fact that 99% of people realize that the Wrath's powerbase is nothing at all compared to Nox's, and that his influence is not comparable either. Their martial art skills aren't at question, it's not a "who'd win the duel" you're trying to intervene in. It's a fact that he has no powerbase, get over it. If your SW has a huge powerbase, forcing the Council to do his bidding (in your head), fine. But that's not right according to SWTOR.

Nox has a lot of more Sith, and more powerful sith, at his depostial. He has a lot of soldiers, better equipment, better leadership for them (Wrath's black-ops team can't do anything but small operations), he wins on every, single front. Every. A duel between them can be discussed and would be interestering, but if you believe that the Wrath has a powerbase close to that of the Dark Council members, then you haven't played this game. Or maybe you've just RPed your way through everything and decided that "yeah, I'm a god and everyone's my slaves because my char is awesome."

Edited January 27, 2015 by Leaveshill

[Karkais]

You haven't played SI, have you?

 

Of course I have, it was my first maxlevel character. What I was saying is, the powerbases don't appear in any way outside very few and far between cutscenes (which we cannot redo unless with new character). And lets not bring up the infamous silencer that vanished from existence for a number of real life years(including the end of the class story) until the Rishi class mission. Any such evidence is so few and far between it would take Bioware very little to convince me otherwise since I can barely remember the cutscenes in question.

 

I'm saying that the actual gameplay should make the powerbases and characters relationship to empire much more obvious.

 

In actual gameplay your high and mighty dark council member is treated pretty much the same way as a random mercenary.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Karkais

[Exosasa]

Of course I have, it was my first maxlevel character. What I was saying is, the powerbases don't appear in any way outside very few and far between cutscenes (which we cannot redo unless with new character). And lets not bring up the infamous silencer that vanished from existence for a number of real life years(including the end of the class story) until the Rishi class mission. Any such evidence is so few and far between it would take Bioware very little to convince me otherwise since I can barely remember the cutscenes in question.

 

I'm saying that the actual gameplay should make the powerbases and characters relationship to empire much more obvious.

 

In actual gameplay your high and mighty dark council member is treated pretty much the same way as a random mercenary.

 

/facepalm

[Karkais]

/facepalm

 

Wow, that is a very nice argument.

[Zoom_VI]

Wow, that is a very nice argument.

 

He is facepalming at the fact you just brought gameplay arguments into a lore discussion. Gameplay rarely if ever reflects actual lore as far MMORPGs go, especially ones that have PvP and Raiding elements.

 

Like how despite the inquisitor being a dark council member, he still isn't allowed to open all those closed doors on the Zoist's Shadow.

[Leaveshill]

Of course I have, it was my first maxlevel character. What I was saying is, the powerbases don't appear in any way outside very few and far between cutscenes (which we cannot redo unless with new character). And lets not bring up the infamous silencer that vanished from existence for a number of real life years(including the end of the class story) until the Rishi class mission. Any such evidence is so few and far between it would take Bioware very little to convince me otherwise since I can barely remember the cutscenes in question.

 

I'm saying that the actual gameplay should make the powerbases and characters relationship to empire much more obvious.

 

In actual gameplay your high and mighty dark council member is treated pretty much the same way as a random mercenary.

True, I've personally played 3 SIs to lvl 50 so I do recall most of the conversations without any issues, someone that has played it once might obviously forget parts of the story and that's natural.

But it's a fact that the conversations are all that matters.

Nox can't stealth, Wrath can't force-crush, Nox can't phasewalk, Wrath can't force-scream. Every ability you have is rubbish except of the slashes and charge/push, choke, and LS throw. Your powerbase are not relevant to anything but the personal story, and therefore not involved in gameplay. You're treated as mercenary because it's a MMO, everyone are mercenaries. Sidequests are not relevant, neither are gameplay.

The lore will only be; What you do in the short videoes. Of coruse, you don't get to see "every move" there, but you have no powers not shown in the cinematics. You have no allies not shown in those cinematics, and you have no story outside of the main-quests. At least we can only accept things "Proven" by the (class)storyline and companion conversations.

 

And the Silencer is an important part of the war. It's not part of the storyline because it would require a class-story line where you lead the fleet. While I don't want to /facepalm at your arguments, I would point out that you cannot mix story(lore) and gameplay. No way any of the bountyhunters or soldiers would have a chance against Nox, or the Wrath. The Wrath would simply kill 100 troopers in a day, it's just how it is. But it's a MMO and we have boundries to keep to keep it close to balanced, which is nice.

 

It's impossible to involve Nox's powerbase in the storyline without making a new one for the SI alone, which BW aren't interested in at the moment. Had Nox been given the chance to "call Darth Achelon and Darth Skar (You make him a Darth when you kill Thanaton, at least you can arrange it as that's an option)" and bring them around as his personal companioins, would anyone really enjoy the game? Or if he flew around with his fleet, crushing other player's fleets as well?

It's not a RPG and his powerbase is unquestionable the strongest of the playable characters, hands down. We don't need to see a hundred Sith Lords bow to Nox on every quest.

 

*Personally I think it might've been a bit over the hill to make Nox a DC member as it's a MMO and the power from being a DC member is too high compared to anything else the game could offer; but it is a fact that Nox is a DC member and his powerbase, which was significent already before he became a DC member, is now huge and he's one of the 12 most powerful sith in the galaxy in terms of resources, something the Wrath is not unless somebody puts him on the council, which he probably won't as one playable DC member is already a lot. The Wrath's personal power is worth noting as he's one of the strongest young force-users in the galaxy, but his powerbase is smaller then the Imperial Reclaimation service, and probably smaller then Nox's cult as well. It's not worth mentioning, to say the least. Wrath is a powerhouse, but his resources comes from the DC and he has no powerbase outside of a small black-ops squad(we never get to see it, but our dear Sergeant mentions it and that's enough; we don't need to see them)

 

Again, it's really not important in the game, but if one wishes to see the powerbases one must just pay attention to the story/companion conversations. The proofs are at times very vague, but they're there. The Wrath might get a powerbase worth mentioning in the future, but at the moment his powerbase is not important. He's like Darth Malgus; Malgus didn't have an important powerbase until his treason either. We know nothing of what Wrath's future will bring, but we know for a fact that at the moment his political authority is lacking and all he got is his own strenght. A dark lord are supposed to be so terryfing that his servants alone inspire terror, the Wrath have none. His personal strenght is admirable but that's not the question here, we're discussing his powerbase and political power, and both of these are lacking.

[Kayriel]

@Leaveshill ,i agree with alomost everything you said , but i am curious as to why you say that : "Nox can't stealth, Wrath can't force-crush, Nox can't phasewalk, Wrath can't force-scream. Every ability you have is rubbish except of the slashes and charge/push, choke, and LS throw. "

 

Taking out of the equation the fact that this is a game and the visuals must be appealing , Force Scream is an actual skill , that was used even in the SW movies , Palpatine uses scream when he charges at the Jedi that were sent to arrest him , in Episode 3

 

Also , force crush is a greater application of Force Grip , which is at its core , the ability to telekinetically crush you opponent , basically , a Force Grip applies to the entire being.

 

The phase walk skill , is again a valid skill , if you take into consideration what it does , which is a teleport , on wookiepedia the skill that allows you to do this is called Fold Space and for obvious balance reasons it can't do what the ability there describes since it would break the game

 

As a last one , i would argue against your example of Stealth as well , since again , there is a reference where there is a skill that does exactly that , hides the user's presence in the force , but again , due to mechanics and for BW wanting to have a stealth using force user , the visuals and the actual use of the ability were modified

[Exosasa]

I've always considered classes to have all abilities from both sides. Therefore, the Wrath CAN shoot a "Devastating Blast" and "Vengefully Slam" someone.

 

Same for Inquis. She/he can pop a Force Storm down, as well as stealth and teleport.

 

 

In the class trailers, you the character with the base class name using abilities from both sides.