The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

[tunewalker]

No it hasn't and I'll get to your post in a minute. In that comic Sidious maneuvered his lightning as to avoid hitting his imperial guards. Valkorion produced a wave that washed over your allies and the enemies. Only the enemies were harmed. So it literally only hurt those that weren't on your side. This is not the same as what Sidious did.

 

So one had sidious hurt his enemies and not his allies in a wide arc... and the other had valkorien hurt his enemies but not his allies in a wide arc...and they are not the same.

[Beniboybling]

The entire Eternal family is just stupid tbh....throwing out powerful TK feats =/= a good character and Val just comes off as a spoiled little *****...

I have to agree with you there.

I mean seriously? Using TK while she was STILL in the womb?...What a crock of bull.

LOL, I was not aware of that. Edited October 29, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Rhyltran]

So one had sidious hurt his enemies and not his allies in a wide arc... and the other had valkorien hurt his enemies but not his allies in a wide arc...and they are not the same.

 

No. They aren't the same. Valkorion created a wave that washed over the outlanders enemies and allies like a tidal wave. It didn't arc and weave around them. Sidious lightning only touched his enemies. Valkorion's attack touched both but only the enemies were harmed.

 

1. You assume Arcann is greater then Ventress, but he doesnt have enough feats to say this is 100% true (cross era's is a *****).

 

Arcann is more powerful than Ventress. Currently he's stronger than his sister though he made it clear that his sister is only beginning to "Spread her wings." and he completely ragdolls the outlander as mentioned. Even so we can safely assume he can duplicate Vaylin's displays right now. We have evidence of that as he fell from quite a distance and was completely unharmed from it. This was impressive. Not to mention he survived an attack that outright killed Marr.

 

2. The "ran over" could be caused by the failure to hold onto it, so nothing there that hasnt been seen, no suggestion that Sidious's "most powerful Dark sider of all time" accolade in RotS has been over written by a character that comes before him in the time line... ( Sidious instantly killed Windu... personally I think Windu has the better accolades to Marr... so there is that)

 

No, then you'd have a situation like Yoda where the lightsaber flew from his hand. The lightsaber was still in Arcann's hand. He went flying backwards. Sidious did not instantly kill Windu until he was unarmed, missing hands, and was no longer channeling Vaapad because he was in pain/shock.

 

3. Yes it is, and Sidious has more power, the fact that he actually uses a lightsaber is not an automatic weakness was the point.

 

Sidious has no power isn't evidence nor did I claim it's weakness that he uses a lightsaber. I merely stated that there is no proof that he could use a barrier because he never has in the manner that Valkorion did.

 

4. Ya that's why Sidious is laughing in almost all his fights, or is using the fight to get the way he wants... We dont see Sidious fight Jedi left and Right, we almost never see him fight Pre RotS, You dont see him do x scenario for the same reason you didnt see Valkorien do it till recently (a book and several cut scenes dedicated to him and he still doesnt pull it off for years after his creation... and how much feats do we have for RotS Sidious... oh right the 1 movie/ novel, We never got Sidious's full capabilities in RotS, who is to say he wasnt just as strong as he was in DE to begin with), he never had the cause to, why didnt Vitiate do it against the Jedi strike team in Act II of the HoT, becase he didnt need to... so on and so forth, it was ALWAYS in his ability to do so, but he didnt cus he didnt need to, Sidious is noted as the most powerful Dark Sider of all time as of 19 BBY, that is 3000 years after Valkorien held that title.

 

Absence of Evidence... Vitiate one shotted the jedi strike team. We saw ROTS Sidious got all out. It was against Yoda. Plus that quote is mostly used in tan-gem with the DE Sidious. Usually when people challenge it we point to the fact that Sidious came back more powerful than ever.

 

 

Valkorian HASNT shown better lightning, if you think that then Galen shows better lightning then Sidious, since the Wide arc has been shown by him before (sure I could dig up some other examples, but that one should suffice)

 

It's not just how wide the arc is but what it's capable of. We've seen it in context.

 

Valkorian HASNT shown better Control if that's the case Exar Kun pulled the same trick, hell his was probably harder to pull off so I guess that makes Exar Kun> Luke right? No, both of these I feel are the example of people miss interpreting a visual medium, which is no surprise.

 

Beni countered this point already so I'm not going to bother.

 

 

 

 

Addendum: Tune, you realize I was one of the biggest and most outspoken people against Valkorion/Vitiate? I've changed my tune (pun not intended.) and have completely gone against that. I'm capable of seeing the facts and the truth is Valkorion > Yoda.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Wolfninjajedi]

I have to agree with you there.LOL, I was not aware of that.

 

....Yeah...their mother says as such it's just...wow.

[Rhyltran]

I have to agree with you there.LOL, I was not aware of that.

 

Wait? You didn't know that? I'm surprised. Yeah, she moved a table while still in the womb or something of that matter. Valkorion also locked away most of her powers and she's still pulling Vader tier TK. When her power is fully unleashed we're going to be saying "Arcann who?" By the way she'll definitely make it somewhere in this top 10 list. Easily. At this rate she might make it above Yoda too.

[Beniboybling]

No. They aren't the same. Valkorion created a wave that washed over the outlanders enemies and allies like a tidal wave. It didn't arc and weave around them. Sidious lightning only touched his enemies. Valkorion's attack touched both but only the enemies were harmed.

To be fair Satele has done something similar here:

 

 

Although isn't Lana knocked to the ground by the attack?

No, then you'd have a situation like Yoda where the lightsaber flew from his hand. The lightsaber was still in Arcann's hand. He went flying backwards. Sidious did not instantly kill Windu until he was unarmed, missing hands, and was no longer channeling Vaapad because he was in pain/shock.

Interesting observation concerning Windu, however its possible Sidious was deliberately prolonging his pain.

[Beniboybling]

Wait? You didn't know that? I'm surprised. Yeah, she moved a table while still in the womb or something of that matter. Valkorion also locked away most of her powers and she's still pulling Vader tier TK. When her power is fully unleashed we're going to be saying "Arcann who?" By the way she'll definitely make it somewhere in this top 10 list. Easily. At this rate she might make it above Yoda too.

Yeah I haven't played most of the expansion.

 

And most probable. I highly doubt she'd be above Yoda however, she's not even above Starkiller yet.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wait? You didn't know that? I'm surprised. Yeah, she moved a table while still in the womb or something of that matter. Valkorion also locked away most of her powers and she's still pulling Vader tier TK. When her power is fully unleashed we're going to be saying "Arcann who?" By the way she'll definitely make it somewhere in this top 10 list. Easily. At this rate she might make it above Yoda too.

 

...See Beni?...Even after that, she STILL has locked away power, among the other things she has shown while still having suppressed power.

 

....What's with this family?

 

They show all these giant abilities in 1 or 2 scenes that suddenly either strip away or match other characters....and yet are either holding back, weakened or their powers are suppressed....

Edited October 29, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rhyltran]

Yeah I haven't played most of the expansion.

 

And most probable. I highly doubt she'd be above Yoda however, she's not even above Starkiller yet.

 

Yet. However it was outright stated most of her power is locked away. Her brother said she's just "Starting to spread her wings." and "Testing her capabilities. Learning her limits." and that she hasn't "Begun" to realize what she's capable of. So far it's been heavily implied what we've seen is only a fraction of what she's capable of. Either way she's stupidly powerful.

 

...See Beni?...Even after that, she STILL has locked away power, among the other things she has shown while still having suppressed power.

 

....What's with this family?

 

They show all these giant abilities in 1 or 2 scenes that suddenly either strip away or match other characters....and yet are either holding back, weakened or their powers are suppressed....

 

I agree. I'm really not trying to be a fanboy arguing for Valkorion. I'm just trying to be objective. I'm not some fan of his character. In fact, I think it's dumb just how powerful his family is but despite my feelings on the matter it doesn't change the facts. I don't see Yoda beating this guy in a straight fight in terms of strength. I just don't. He's stronger than his daughter and Son who are both pulling near Vader tier feats which is a fraction of the daughter's power and.. yeah. It's insane but it is what it is.

 

I'm half expecting Valkorion to turn out to be some entity like Abeloth or the Ones at this point by the end of this. I'm starting to question if he was ever "normal."

Edited October 29, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yet. However it was outright stated most of her power is locked away. Her brother said she's just "Starting to spread her wings." and "Testing her capabilities. Learning her limits." and that she hasn't "Begun" to realize what she's capable of. So far it's been heavily implied what we've seen is only a fraction of what she's capable of. Either way she's stupidly powerful.

 

 

 

I agree. I'm really not trying to be a fanboy arguing for Valkorion. I'm just trying to be objective. I'm not some fan of his character. In fact, I think it's dumb just how powerful his family is but despite my feelings on the matter it doesn't change the facts. I don't see Yoda beating this guy in a straight fight in terms of strength. I just don't. He's stronger than his daughter and Son who are both pulling near Vader tier feats which is a fraction of the daughter's power and.. yeah. It's insane but it is what it is.

 

I'm half expecting Valkorion to turn out to be some entity like Abeloth or the Ones at this point by the end of this. I'm starting to question if he was ever "normal."

 

I'm starting to question just how BW is gonna end all this...because if all their powers are suppressed, weakened or locked away....what are they gonna be when in full? How's BW gonna write out of this one?

 

On that note I take back what I said, Thexan is the only normal one of the family....and he's dead.

[Rhyltran]

I'm starting to question just how BW is gonna end all this...because if all their powers are suppressed, weakened or locked away....what are they gonna be when in full? How's BW gonna write out of this one?

 

On that note I take back what I said, Thexan is the only normal one of the family....and he's dead.

 

Or how they'll do future expansions. Some people are suggesting this is the final expansion and while I hope not.. what are they going to introduce to top these guys?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Or how they'll do future expansions. Some people are suggesting this is the final expansion and while I hope not.. what are they going to introduce to top these guys?

 

Also one thing(abit off topic) but does anyone feel that the Knights are just some over glorified police force? As what they are noted to be lol.

 

They seem similar to the GE's Shadow Guards, yet lack Force ability aside from the odd here and there that are come across(mostly named guys), yet are suppose to be strong with The Force?.....

 

Oh and someone EXPLAIN how Valyin was able to shield herself with a piece of metal against two blaster cannons from a starship??

 

That piece of metal and her should have been splattered all over the walkway at that scene..

Edited October 29, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rhyltran]

Also one thing(abit off topic) but does anyone feel that the Knights are just some over glorified police force? As what they are noted to be lol.

 

They seem similar to the GE's Shadow Guards, yet lack Force ability aside from the odd here and there that are come across(mostly named guys), yet are suppose to be strong with The Force?.....Yet they don't appear to be too bright either, aside from again the named ones.

 

I disagree. I think they're very powerful but the problem is we're talking about them going u pagainst our characters. Characters who swat down Dark Council/Jedi Council level people like flies. Honestly how could they stand a chance?

 

If they put up a fight and were impressive towards us we'd feel really useless.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Wolfninjajedi]

I disagree. I think they're very powerful but the problem is we're talking about them going u pagainst our characters. Characters who swat down Dark Council/Jedi Council level people like flies. Honestly how could they stand a chance?

 

 

But they don't show hardly any force abilities? Again aside from the named ones and even then they all seem to prefer martial combat.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rhyltran]

But they don't show hardly any force abilities? Again aside from the named ones and even then they all seem to prefer martial combat.

 

I think that's because the scions are the more "force power" oriented ones whereas the knights are all about martial prowess. They seem to have two cultures. The two also seem to be at odds with each other from time to time. This is very different than the Jedi and Sith. Consulars consider themselves just as much Jedi as Guardians do. Likewise you usually don't have Sorcerers and Warriors debating either.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think that's because the scions are the more "force power" oriented ones whereas the knights are all about martial prowess. They seem to have two cultures. The two also seem to be at odds with each other from time to time. This is very different than the Jedi and Sith. Consulars consider themselves just as much Jedi as Guardians do. Likewise you usually don't have Sorcerers and Warriors debating either.

 

Eh point I suppose, though the Scions seemed to be pretty good martially too.

 

Though at any rate, diff dicussion for a diff time lol.

 

Also Rebels is on!

[tunewalker]

No. They aren't the same. Valkorion created a wave that washed over the outlanders enemies and allies like a tidal wave. It didn't arc and weave around them. Sidious lightning only touched his enemies. Valkorion's attack touched both but only the enemies were harmed.

 

 

 

 

The easiest thing to address... Its called "rose tinted glass" this is the mantra talked about when we talk about different levels of Canon as well as talking about different media sources. In this case a video game vs a Comic Strip, a story that is being told through the eyes of a PC that, as far as I can tell has no name and the like because THAT character is being told by the thousands of people that had interactions with them being sliced over thousands of years (A long time ago, in a Galaxy far far away, starts off the story after all) in a video game form vs one that is probably being told through storm troopers that witnessed it, that would be thousands of years newer then the Valkorien story. Basically what I am saying is the difference is one is a Video game's show of the power to spread force lightning out hurt enemies and not allies, and the other is a Comic's show of a the power to spread force lightning out hurt enemies and not allies. They both preform the exact same feat, you are getting caught up on the details of the visual that is a victum of the medium it is being shown in. The feats are no different, the difference is the medium that its being shown in, this has been my issue with some of these things from the start, people get over hyped on certain visual mediums more then other visual mediums or written mediums with out truly analyzing what the difference between the mediums is and why the visual for the same ability may look different.

 

 

 

Edit: and beni, when i said it was below the heart, on Valkorien, I had that same chart siting next to me from my moms medical school stuff, I didnt want to link it cus it was close, but when holding it next to the screen and looking at the whole I felt it was a little south of the target so I called it the stomach, for ease of the boards. But that doesnt matter any way, difference between Valkorien's situation and Palpatines is easy, Valkorien had a possible vessel in proximity that was effected by the entire chain reaction and explosion... Palpatine did not, he was thrown down a shaft meaning no one was close to him for that explosion, As we see Arcann doesnt get possesed, probably because at that distance its probably already to far for such a technique.

 

Other then that, no I am not seeing anything Valkorien can do that I didnt already assume Vitiate could do when I said he was above Plageuis but below Yoda.

Edited October 29, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

Check out his lightning attack. We haven't seen lightning of this magnitude. You and others keep claiming that you have no doubt Yoda can replicate his barrier technique he uses to block Arcann's saber attacks. What evidence is there that Yoda or Sidious can do this? We've never seen them block a lightsaber in this manner. In fact anytime someone attacks them they use a lightsaber of their own. Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. We also see his force lightning take down multiple starships with ease.

 

The hell we didn't:

 

On her last three words, she struck three blows that each partially found their mark. The first burned a sizzling line down the apprentice’s left shoulder. The second scored diagonally across his chest. The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin. He could feel his eyelashes and eyebrows burning. The right side of his sight was entirely blue.

- The Force Unleashed

 

Vader made no move to defend himself when Starkiller reached the very top of the cloning tower. Determined to prove him wrong, Starkiller didn't waste time announcing his intentions. He just lunged. Only at the very last moment did Vader raise his blade to block the blow, and even then the move seemed almost casual, disinterested. Starkiller struck again, with both lightsabers. Vader blocked one blade and used telekinesis to throw the other off target. The platform buckled and twisted, sending Starkiller flying.

- The Force Unleashed II

[cs_zoltan]

I'm playing catch up, so excuse my numerous posts in a row.

 

Vaapad had nothing to do with Windu being able to deflect Sidious lightning.

 

You should've read my thread:

 

Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him.

 

Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him.

And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

—Revenge of the Sith

 

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny.'"

—Revenge of the Sith

 

Windu channeled away Sidious' lightning with Vaapad, reflected back on him, had his lightsaber blocking it, he is one of the most powerful force user of all time. And he was still loosing. 'nuff said.

[PadsterPwns]

The entire Eternal family is just stupid tbh....throwing out powerful TK feats =/= a good character and Vaylin just comes off as a spoiled little *****...

 

I mean seriously? Using TK while she was STILL in the womb?...What a crock of bull.

 

Among other things, the only interesting one out of the whole family is....Arcann...which isn't much as he just comes across as an egotistical maniac.

 

The main reason I don't like the Eternal Family is because all I can see it as is Bioware attempting to one-up other feats of EU characters. That and the Family don't really have much character.

 

On-topic though, I don't feel that Valkorion is above RotS Sidious yet. As far as the Lightning goes I do think it's being overblown considering Arcann did manage to block it and even when Valkorion did blast Arcann's lightsaber out of his hands, RotS Sidious has done that but to Yoda. Remember that Sidious used a burst of Force Lightning to that, whereas to knock Arcann's saber out of his hands Valkorion used a Force Storm (I know he was intending to kill Arcann but still) which Arcann was still able to block. If Arcann can block Valkorion's Force Storm I see no reason why RotS Sidious or RotS Yoda couldn't, unless you want to argue Arcann > Rots Yoda or RotS Sidious?

 

I also have no idea why people are considering Yoda couldn't block Arcann's lightsaber strikes as we've seen him use Tutaminus to absorb RotS Sidious' Lightning and we know Tutaminus can be used to block saber strikes. In addition I see no reason to doubt that Sidious could block saber strikes when all Valkorion did to block it was use Force Barrier/TK, something both Sidious and Yoda have numerous feats in (TK).

 

Edit: The on-topic stuff isn't aimed at you Wolf.

Edited October 29, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[PadsterPwns]

He ragdolled the Outlander, how can you possibly claim him inferior to Ventress.

 

No offense Beni but that probably isn't the best example considering it's a 50/50 chance that the Outlander is Force Sensitive.

[cs_zoltan]

On-topic though, I don't feel that Valkorion is above RotS Sidious yet. As far as the Lightning goes I do think it's being overblown considering Arcann did manage to block it and even when Valkorion did blast Arcann's lightsaber out of his hands, RotS Sidious did that but to Yoda.

 

Not to mention Arcann's lightsaber was down at his side, likely he was caught off-guard.

 

[PadsterPwns]

Not to mention Arcann's lightsaber was down at his side, likely he was caught off-guard.

 

 

Great point, this really should settle the point about Force Lightning. RotS Sidious > Valkorion.

[Rhyltran]

The hell we didn't:

 

On her last three words, she struck three blows that each partially found their mark. The first burned a sizzling line down the apprentice’s left shoulder. The second scored diagonally across his chest. The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin. He could feel his eyelashes and eyebrows burning. The right side of his sight was entirely blue.

- The Force Unleashed

 

Was that via a barrier or by telekinetic block do they mean what Yoda does to Ventress? Stopping the attack short via telekinesis? That doesn't sound like a barrier.

 

Vader made no move to defend himself when Starkiller reached the very top of the cloning tower. Determined to prove him wrong, Starkiller didn't waste time announcing his intentions. He just lunged. Only at the very last moment did Vader raise his blade to block the blow, and even then the move seemed almost casual, disinterested. Starkiller struck again, with both lightsabers. Vader blocked one blade and used telekinesis to throw the other off target. The platform buckled and twisted, sending Starkiller flying.

- The Force Unleashed II

 

Same here.

[cs_zoltan]

Was that via a barrier or by telekinetic block do they mean what Yoda does to Ventress? Stopping the attack short via telekinesis? That doesn't sound like a barrier.

 

Same here.

 

It's ok, because Walkie's didn't look like a barrier, so......