EvenHardNiner Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) And still you are replying to my posts even though you apparently think they are pointless. Your turn. I'm just giving you helpful advice in future to be more respectful to other people No, you're just trolling me. That's just your personal opinion. Seems like if anyone teaches you a lesson or gives you advice it's "trolling" because you can't handle it. Edited January 17, 2015 by EvenHardNiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm just giving you helpful advice in future to be more respectful to other people If your irony is intentional, it's kinda funny, If it is unintentional, it is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If your irony is intentional, it's kinda funny, If it is unintentional, it is priceless. Looking at your posting history, you seem very passive aggressive in your writing. It's like everything anyone ever posts just annoys you. & please learn the definition of irony. I think you're trying to use the phrase "pot meet kettle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Looking at your posting history, you seem very passive aggressive in your writing. It's like everything anyone ever posts just annoys you. Are you so obsessed with me that you examined my posting history? Would you like an autograph? & please learn the definition of irony. I think you're trying to use the phrase "pot meet kettle" No, I mean irony. Edited January 17, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Are you so obsessed with me that you examined my posting history? Would you like an autograph? Nope, I just looked at it to see what kind of person I'm dealing with. And now I know. No, I mean irony. Nope, you don't mean irony. Because if you mean irony then thats hilarious how wrong you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Nope, you don't mean irony. Because if you mean irony then thats hilarious how wrong you are Well, one of us does need to look up the definition of "irony." Ironically enough, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well, one of us does need to look up the definition of "irony." Ironically enough, it's you. Fantastic come back..."it's not me! it's you!". Please take some time to look up the definition and then you can apologize for being wrong. Because you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) First I'll toss this link here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790586 Next, I was one of the most Anti-Slot machine spokesman on this forums. but in order to really show you how broken this thing is let's see what you get for 5000 chips (and I needed the rep for the vendor so why not). Warning, Don't do this unless you mentally ill like me. Pics or it ain't happened: 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/99wz4TB.jpg Rewards for 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/XKNyDqg.jpg (...) So, you took all the timed, bored yourself to near death (I assume), posted screenshots (kudos for that) and wrote a long post here. But you failed to add any proof for any profit you made. You did not even manage to write down actual numbers about how much credits you got back for the rep tokens. Your post ends with a lot of assumptions. Like you would easily make a million with your purples. Have you made a million with your purples yet? Or are you only predicting? If you want that your post has any value, you need to continue: Sell all the stuff from your screenshots and post precise numbers on your real income. Then, and only then, we can see how much winning you actually made with your 5.000 chips. And then, from your winning, we will have to substract the credits that others paid for your stuff. Then we substract that amount from your winning and at the end, we will know whether you participated in a credit sink with your 5.000 chips. My guess is: you did (even if you came out with more credits at the end, but a credit sink is a general thing). Edited January 17, 2015 by JattaGin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Nope, he wasn't. And it *is* getting nerfed, cling to hope all you want but it's coming. Just wait for all the whine and outrage next week. Is next week already ? I see lots and lots of whining currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metthew Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Pft, you shouldn't think everyone can understand the concept of money supply. As for price of purples on GTN, a shift in the odds can adjust it pretty well. I can show it with a simple calculation. Currently the expected credit return on a chip is: E[R] = .20 * E[R] + .1 * J + .1 * 500 + .08 * 1000 + .05 * 2500 + .02 * C - 500 Where we assumed that only Jawa Junk will return valuable mats, J is the price associated with selling a mat buyable with Jawa Junk, and C is similar for Cartel Certificates. => E[R] = .1*J + .02*C - 306.25 This will be profitable as long as this is greater than zero, so we want to consider where: 5J+C > 15312.5 Depending on the price associated with a Cartel Certificate, a single Jawa Junk is valued at (15312.5-C)/5. In particular, if the price for Cartel Certificates is effectively greater than 15312.5, any positive pricing for purple mats will return a profit. For C = 10000, the price associated with Jawa Junk is 1062.5, which means any pricing for Adaptive Circuitry above ~3180 returns a profit. If C = 0 (might want to assume that for supply/demand reasons), then J > 3062.5 returns a profit. For Adaptive Circuitry, this is a fair market price of ~9180. If you want to change these to other pricings you might want, you can then just adjust the rates of drop. For example, if you want Adaptive Circuitry to have a fair market price of 15k (or below if Certs are sold), just adjust the drop rate of Jawa Junk to be 1/10 * 9/15, which is 9/150 = %6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metthew Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think 9k for Adaptive Circuitry is pretty reasonable though. It makes for about 20k augments at fair prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Nope, he wasn't. And it *is* getting nerfed, cling to hope all you want but it's coming. Just wait for all the whine and outrage next week. Something must be wrong with the colors on my monitor because the text of your post is not showing up in yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I think this is a deliberate move on BW's part to a) get cartel certificates into peoples hands to incentivize pack sales to go for the CM reputation tracks b) flood the economy on the supply side now that the removal of trainer costs and (expected) appearance tab in the pipeline basically nuke any and all credit sinks. Every toon that leveled from 55-60 ended up with 1-1.5 mil credits. Every. One. I base this assessment of doing it 6 times now. Basically a lot of credits are now in the game with the potential to cause a price increase seriously detrimental to the f2p/more casual player base. And since a 3k a pop slot machine won't really get used the answer to mitigate the price hiking up due to the credit flood we're witnessing was to flood the supply side of the market. Edited January 17, 2015 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Certificates > This think are above any other... just this week before the machine was released I paid 4.5 mill for nihilus mask and 4.8 mill for Throne mount but with this babies I can get those things for 100 k and more. Also Decorations from certs sells on my server around 50k + per unit so (500 to 50k rate in 1 click ? lolwut).OMG NERF THE MACHINE everyone should pay 400k for a basic red carpet and 5 million for 2 year old mask, it is only fair! Also remove Jawa Junk so that Cartel whales can monopolize GTN and get even richer than they already are!!! What a nonsense post Edited January 17, 2015 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Good morning fellow players. Just woke up and checked 1 toon, 700k in sales right there on 1 toon I got 8 more with full 50 spot on GTN I need to check. Now mr "Wut do you care!!!! I want everything for free without effort!!!", Are you aware that crwe skills are part of the game ? are you aware it's valid part players takes interest with? why should this accursed machine ruin it for people by de-valuing the materials to the point it won't be worth to use the crew skills? The amount of time it took me for loads of stacks of each mats type in slot machine vs normal gameplay it's just ridiculous. it made it too easy and ruined part of the game and throw mats crafted items prices are broken. "Oy! But you are bored git with no brainz sits der for hours!" As I've stated imagine 5000 players rolling 1 time or gold farmers with access to 10 machines. "K'z But...! But...! I want to haz cheep stufz with no effort! Why should I make effort to gets Stufz!!!" Because mr "Annoyed at its existence", all those crafters out there took their time to make a toon level him up to get companions and level each crew skill to 500 with initial investment of almost 100k just for the trainer to learn advanced versions of those skills. Toss in some item crafting and you get huge costs right there for Schems, Re-Engineer and the mats had to be gathered. The point of Crew skills missions being so long is that people will play around on open world go places to find materials for crafting not sit like statues in their stronghold wait 40 minutes. "You'z triez di'z Jed'ai Mind Trickz?!" No, Now if you had some sense young failed Swtor-ian you had at least 8 alts (on of each class) with 5 slicers. Each slicer runs slicing mission while you play around the game world. with decent brain activity you'll notice you get "Mission Discovery: X" which you can use to get loads of mats from all types and if available purple mats! yay! and money box from slicing gave you your money back! wohoo! oh ha guess what! common sense. All you knight-posters protecting the slot machine in it's current form If you are right then next slot machines should: 1. Give free pvp tokens. 2. Give planetary\elite\ultimate commendations. 3. give Free days to your sub cause why not. 4. Give you a functional real life lightsaber so you can bash your computer and avoid this failure in all its glory of failurness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Infantile sarcasm hardly helps your case man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 No, Now if you had some sense young failed Swtor-ian you had at least 8 alts (on of each class) with 5 slicers. This is where I stopped reading, another slicer complaining that one of the revenue streams has become easier doing something else. Adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rujopetteri Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) If it's a total non issue to you, then just ignore threads like these. Simple. Why did you feel the need to post in one and comment about it being such a non issue when you think it's a non issue? It's a total non-issue for me too. In fact. this is one of the biggest reasons i decided to continue my subscription [Edit] Including the addition of grade 11 mats to the jawas. [/Edit]. As this now finally gives me the possibility to craft better stuff for my alts and companions without feeding insane amounts of creds to the "whales" with their 1000% profit margins on the GTN. However if the whining of these "whales" who are now losing their insane revenue streams makes BW nerf this, it will become a real issue... I just hope they also improve the gathering missions to reward more purple mats to bring the cost of mats down even more. Edited January 17, 2015 by Rujopetteri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think this is a deliberate move on BW's part to a) get cartel certificates into peoples hands to incentivize pack sales to go for the CM reputation tracks b) flood the economy on the supply side now that the removal of trainer costs and (expected) appearance tab in the pipeline basically nuke any and all credit sinks. Every toon that leveled from 55-60 ended up with 1-1.5 mil credits. Every. One. I base this assessment of doing it 6 times now. Basically a lot of credits are now in the game with the potential to cause a price increase seriously detrimental to the f2p/more casual player base. And since a 3k a pop slot machine won't really get used the answer to mitigate the price hiking up due to the credit flood we're witnessing was to flood the supply side of the market. You forget an important fact: the slot machine itself is a credit sink. You get fewer credits from vendoring the rep tokens (assuming you don't use them, and some will be used) than you spent buying the chips. Any profit you make off the GTN is just transfering credits from another player to yourself (and the GTN cut is another credit sink). Now, I generally ridicule credit sinks as being a half-assed attempt to replace consumption as a driving force in an economy, with generally poor results. The fact is, though, this one is a better approximation of what consumption is than, say, skill training. If I want to use the slot machine to get decos, I'm effectively consuming credits. If I want to use them to get mats for crafting, I'm...effectively consuming credits, again. It's still treating money as a ressource rather than as, well, money, but it makes a lot more sense than "you must pay this arbitrary one-time fee for having levelled up an alt". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) You forget an important fact: the slot machine itself is a credit sink. You get fewer credits from vendoring the rep tokens (assuming you don't use them, and some will be used) than you spent buying the chips. Any profit you make off the GTN is just transfering credits from another player to yourself (and the GTN cut is another credit sink). Now, I generally ridicule credit sinks as being a half-assed attempt to replace consumption as a driving force in an economy, with generally poor results. The fact is, though, this one is a better approximation of what consumption is than, say, skill training. If I want to use the slot machine to get decos, I'm effectively consuming credits. If I want to use them to get mats for crafting, I'm...effectively consuming credits, again. It's still treating money as a ressource rather than as, well, money, but it makes a lot more sense than "you must pay this arbitrary one-time fee for having levelled up an alt". It is a credit sink but a rather inconsequential one. 70k reputation is not really a large ammount and after that they refinance to what feels like 2/3 of the chip cost per stack of chips used. If you put through say 5 stacks of chips and via that at a generous estimate take 125k credits out of the system the significance of that effect on the economy pales next to the fact there's probably around a stack of new 99 purple jawa tokens now in the system. Edited January 17, 2015 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudo Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 in other words. make this machine useless and return to status quo where most people couldn't even afford to craft, or buy crafted stuff. hell to. the no. I LIKE being able to gear my alts with purple augments. I LIKE not having to log on 6 different alts, to queue crafting only come back an hour later to a bunch of blues I already have too many of. all becasue I'm trying to augment my raiding toon. I LIKE not having to chose between my character's performance and making some extra credits for a few luxuries here and there, becasue with former rarity of purple mats? I pretty much had to, not being a super srs GTN player and all. the problem is not the machine. the real problem is that you hate absolutely HATE it that other people might actualy.... gasp not be dependent on your prices anymore, instead of enjoying additional income you can STILL make of this, you would rather take away options from other people. no. just no. Couldn't have really stated it better. I am one of those habitual alt crafters, and for the first time since launch, i feel like I can just 'play' new characters knowing that gearing them up to become 'pve' ready will not require the constant support of all my other characters running missions since the materials and end products are actually 'reasonably priced now' PVP is a different matter, but a matter of my choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumOD Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) First I'll toss this link here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790586 Next, I was one of the most Anti-Slot machine spokesman on this forums. but in order to really show you how broken this thing is let's see what you get for 5000 chips (and I needed the rep for the vendor so why not). Warning, Don't do this unless you mentally ill like me. Pics or it ain't happened: 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/99wz4TB.jpg Rewards for 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/XKNyDqg.jpg My Gambling-Fu was victorious after roughly 5 hours of rolling. hence small moment to recite the gambler code: "The credits are a lie, There are only chips. Through Chips I get flashy wins, Through Flashy wins I get Jawa junk, Through Jawa Junk the materials GTN Market is Broken, The Slot Machine will make me Rich." Now the numbers, to chip in 5000 chips I had to pay 500 per chip which sums up to 2.5 million credits. The rewards breakdown: Certificates > This think are above any other... just this week before the machine was released I paid 4.5 mill for nihilus mask and 4.8 mill for Throne mount but with this babies I can get those things for 100 k and more. Also Decorations from certs sells on my server around 50k + per unit so (500 to 50k rate in 1 click ? lolwut). Rep Items > You'll max your rep very quickly then it's as follows while vendoring them: Purple - 2500 credits or 5 chips in 1 rep item. Blue > 1000 credits or 2 chips per rep item. Green > 500 credits or 1:1 ratio. so if we look on the picture just purple rep items alone while I vendored them gave me almost 800k back out of my initial 2.5 mill investment. now add the blue\green ones and if I'm correct it's almost full investment back right there. Jawa junk, no need to elaborate here but even a monkey on drugs will make at least 1 mill per purple jawa junk now add the value from blue and green ones as well. My point is I am 1 person who rolled 5000 chips which is insane and not practical but imagine 5000 players on singel server rolling each 1 chip.... imagine crazy gold farmer in SH with 10 slot machines rolling all day long then spamming the chats. This thing need nerf and quickly. I recommend: 1. Increase chip price to 3000 credits. 2. increase the time the machine "roll" a win to at least 25 seconds. 3. limit the machines to 1 per SH. 4. Remove jawa scrap\junk drops from the drop table. 5. Make the cert drop ultra rare like 1:1000 rolls or something. then it will be balanced. good day. I bet every credit I have this guy has been screwing people with his crafting for years... The only people who think this machine is a bad idea are those that have made hundreds of millions of credits off Farming players and Gouging with crafting market schemes... I have a guy just like this in my guild... He will literally sit on the machine all day and post why it is bad... why is he doing this you may ask............ So he can get tons of resources built up then QQ in forums and get it Nerf so he can yet again Screw everyone who is not working a major crafting scheme..... Dear craters thanks for the sore behind form the past.. Bio-ware I think this machine is great thanks again. Edited January 17, 2015 by MaximumOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 The amount of failure in some of this posts... "I want to gear my toons!!" ok do any quest in the game even on newbie planet and get basic cooms which you trade for 186 purple gear vendor at 60! yay! I personally successfully did ravagers and ToS with this gear on my 60. Augments were at same prices of previous ones. and it took me a day to learn how to craft mainhand\relics on my crafters to artifact level to fully complete the 186 set but some of the people here are so lazy it amazes me why they bother play the game in first place. Time for... Test the Credit Sink!!! come 'round gents... I paid 2.5 mill for chips in this "Credit sink". I got back 1.6 mill just from selling to a vendor all the rep items. now... After checking mail on all my 9 alts (1 of each class + 1 LS warrior for the companion achievement) the total I earned from selling SOME (still have 30% cargo hold of stacks to sell) is additional whooping 3,328,542 credits total revenue is 4,928,542 credits (do note its just SOME of the stuff I got... I placed now again 50 lists * 9 alts and after listing those I got additional 30-40 stacks on my cargo hold in wait for sale). now we deduct the 2.5 mill and profit made with SOME of the stuff I got from the machine in less then 10 hours of playing the chips + listing SOME items and selling them is: 2,428,542 credits. Now what kind of failed credit sink is that which creates such stupidly huge amounts of money out of thin air. Those was 5000 chips people which still makes me more money as we speak... imagine how many chips rolled by other players and acknowledge the problem! And please don't bother with usual "more mats = less cost per mat = less profit" , moment I get less then the chip cost per unit of mat I don't sell that mat nor purchase the chip in first place hence the only way to get that mat again after playing will be stopped on the slot machine will be crew skills yet no one will run those for a while then people will complain there are no mats and they, god forbid, have to play the game to get mats for crafting! actually play the game?! the horror... we should all stand in place r-click shiny terminal and get moneyz! yay.... /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) So here's the real problem with the machines, and why they will be nerfed, and why the nerf won't just be to Jawa Junk returns. Keep in mind this is a small sample size. I will run a sample size hopefully dozens of times larger by the end of the weekend. I bought 4 stacks of tokens for 198,000 and ran them all through until none were left. That resulted in (tracking only things of value): 37 Confiscated Artwork 38 Prohibited Medical Supplies 50 Banned Holovids 11 CM Certificates 45 Jawa Junk Purchase Price of Tokens was 198,000 Vendor Value on Rep Items is 29,500 Twi'Lek Dancers sell for over 40k on my server, so the value of the CM certs after GTN 6% fee is 413,600 ... WOOPS. I just made 245,000 credits before converting any Jawa Junk into any artifact level crafting material. This means that Artifact Level Crafting Materials are now FREE! Then I ran a "what-if" on it and it turns out that as long as you can turn the CM Certificates into ~20,000 each, half their value on my server currently, artifact level crafting materials remain free. That's probably not going to last. Edited January 17, 2015 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumOD Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 All of your calculations are based on costs of GTN... I have not made money by just rolling the machine ever I lose roughly 10-30% even with the rep items You are purposely posting bs to pad your pockets> I get why you are doing it because you are losing the ability to control the Crafting markets NOW go cry yourself to sleep. Like I said before I got a guy just like this in my guild I had to take his key away to stop the Hippocrit, he literally spent 20 ish hours in last few days at the machine doesn't want to share it and it is in my stronghold... this is typical meanwhile when he is not on the machine campaigning against the machine in the forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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