lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 First I'll toss this link here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790586 Next, I was one of the most Anti-Slot machine spokesman on this forums. but in order to really show you how broken this thing is let's see what you get for 5000 chips (and I needed the rep for the vendor so why not). Warning, Don't do this unless you mentally ill like me. Pics or it ain't happened: 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/99wz4TB.jpg Rewards for 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/XKNyDqg.jpg My Gambling-Fu was victorious after roughly 5 hours of rolling. hence small moment to recite the gambler code: "The credits are a lie, There are only chips. Through Chips I get flashy wins, Through Flashy wins I get Jawa junk, Through Jawa Junk the materials GTN Market is Broken, The Slot Machine will make me Rich." Now the numbers, to chip in 5000 chips I had to pay 500 per chip which sums up to 2.5 million credits. The rewards breakdown: Certificates > This think are above any other... just this week before the machine was released I paid 4.5 mill for nihilus mask and 4.8 mill for Throne mount but with this babies I can get those things for 100 k and more. Also Decorations from certs sells on my server around 50k + per unit so (500 to 50k rate in 1 click ? lolwut). Rep Items > You'll max your rep very quickly then it's as follows while vendoring them: Purple - 2500 credits or 5 chips in 1 rep item. Blue > 1000 credits or 2 chips per rep item. Green > 500 credits or 1:1 ratio. so if we look on the picture just purple rep items alone while I vendored them gave me almost 800k back out of my initial 2.5 mill investment. now add the blue\green ones and if I'm correct it's almost full investment back right there. Jawa junk, no need to elaborate here but even a monkey on drugs will make at least 1 mill per purple jawa junk now add the value from blue and green ones as well. My point is I am 1 person who rolled 5000 chips which is insane and not practical but imagine 5000 players on singel server rolling each 1 chip.... imagine crazy gold farmer in SH with 10 slot machines rolling all day long then spamming the chats. This thing need nerf and quickly. I recommend: 1. Increase chip price to 3000 credits. 2. increase the time the machine "roll" a win to at least 25 seconds. 3. limit the machines to 1 per SH. 4. Remove jawa scrap\junk drops from the drop table. 5. Make the cert drop ultra rare like 1:1000 rolls or something. then it will be balanced. good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 First I'll toss this link here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790586 so if we look on the picture just purple rep items alone while I vendored them gave me almost 800k back out of my initial 2.5 mill investment. now add the blue\green ones and if I'm correct it's almost full investment back right there. good day. You know lying is bad ok? Easy to tell you're just another butthurt augment gouger, having a cry on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 have you looked in the picture I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 have you looked in the picture I posted? No, and theres no need as it proves nothing. Since they have went live there are numerous posts detailing precisely the amount of credits spent verses credits received back from vendoring.. those along with my own findings have all been very close to one another, yet here you are standing alone saying you almost got your full investment back... The average seems to be between 55% to 65% return on credits spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Just open the picture and see how many stacks I got from each... purple rep items alone were vendored back for 792k credits. count the rest I'm too lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sashandra Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Actually, from the rep items, you made 1,605,500 credits, so you fell 894,500 credits short of the initial purchase price of tokens. Just for the sake of accuracy. But apart from that, yes the machines are horribly broken and have done more harm than any exploit to date (including the cartel collection crystal one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Actually, from the rep items, you made 1,605,500 credits, so you fell 894,500 credits short of the initial purchase price of tokens. Just for the sake of accuracy. ) Thank you for doing the numbers and 1.6 mill out of 2.5 initial is way too much for return before I sold mats or decos. profit is huge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sashandra Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thank you for doing the numbers and 1.6 mill out of 2.5 initial is way too much for return before I sold mats or decos. profit is huge! yup, I got a level17 with 27k credits up to 1.8 mill before I got bored with it. For an idea on how broken this is, I was in the second wave at early access when game first launched, got to 50 before the end of early access and with slicing as a crew skill (pre nerf) I got up to 1.5 mill credits which was considered broken. Now I have done better than this in under 2 hours on a character that has yet to get halfway through Drommund Kaas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well m8 we are legit paying players which are concerned with the health of the game imagine F2P gold farmers abusing this mechanics to farm credits and harm the market and crafting at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) yup, I got a level17 with 27k credits up to 1.8 mill before I got bored with it. For an idea on how broken this is, I was in the second wave at early access when game first launched, got to 50 before the end of early access and with slicing as a crew skill (pre nerf) I got up to 1.5 mill credits which was considered broken. Now I have done better than this in under 2 hours on a character that has yet to get halfway through Drommund Kaas. Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation (back then 1.5 million was ALOT more than what 1.5 million is today.) Edited January 17, 2015 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Rewards for 5000 chips > http://i.imgur.com/XKNyDqg.jpg In the meantime, have fun! -eric Epic post OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thank you for doing the numbers and 1.6 mill out of 2.5 initial is way too much for return before I sold mats or decos. profit is huge! Profit is only huge as long as nobody else does this since the profit is based on the market. People are already seeing less and less return from this kind of time spent because of the dropping prices on the market, so give it a day or two and your profit won't be very much in general. You have to stop thinking in such rigid terms. The market is fluid, it will change and adapt to the influx of new materials for sale. Very soon it simply won't be worth the time and effort to stand around for 5 hours and roll the machine since the profit from doing so will only be a few hundred thousand credits, which could be earned faster in other ways. This machine will have three effects: 1: It will stabilize the market so that purple mats are no longer considered luxury items that are out of reach for all but the most profitable crafters. 2: It will provide crafters with a way of obtaining mats faster than crew missions when needed. (I say "when needed" because while running the machine, you can't play the rest of the game, unlike when running crew missions). 3: Cartel Certificate based decorations (like the twi'lek dancers) will become cheaper and available for those who never buy cartel packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) in other words. make this machine useless and return to status quo where most people couldn't even afford to craft, or buy crafted stuff. hell to. the no. I LIKE being able to gear my alts with purple augments. I LIKE not having to log on 6 different alts, to queue crafting only come back an hour later to a bunch of blues I already have too many of. all becasue I'm trying to augment my raiding toon. I LIKE not having to chose between my character's performance and making some extra credits for a few luxuries here and there, becasue with former rarity of purple mats? I pretty much had to, not being a super srs GTN player and all. the problem is not the machine. the real problem is that you hate absolutely HATE it that other people might actualy.... gasp not be dependent on your prices anymore, instead of enjoying additional income you can STILL make of this, you would rather take away options from other people. no. just no. Edited January 17, 2015 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 1: It will stabilize the market so that purple mats are no longer considered luxury items that are out of reach for all but the most profitable crafters. Some players don't even have crafters, only money makers. UWT, Slicing, TH on every toon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Some players don't even have crafters, only money makers. UWT, Slicing, TH on every toon... Well that's their own choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 in other words. make this machine useless and return to status quo where most people would have to put some effort to afford to craft, or buy crafted stuff. Fixed for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Fixed for you. oh please, it still takes effort to craft. not to mention 42k per augment slot is non negotiable. it just doesn't take GTN manipulation, of for majority of people days of dailies. in other words - boo hoo, I may have to actual "gasp" put in effort to make those millions now there, fixed it foryah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Is no one else worried that credit sellers and crafty little players will start using the machines with bots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 They are already balanced or near the sweet spot, you argued with a lot of people over this in many threads and you were proven wrong. Lower margins are a good thing for the economy when credits are being moved out, adapt or die! You are not the only crafter in this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Is no one else worried that credit sellers and crafty little players will start using the machines with bots? ban the bots. other then that - since machines are not actualy generating any new credits, but rather fascilitate moving them around while taking some OUT of the economy? worst thing I can see is crafting mat costs bottoming out, making it even easier for crafters to craft, while gold sellers will get out of the market if selling crafting materials becomes less profitable then vendoring them outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Is no one else worried that credit sellers and crafty little players will start using the machines with bots? We have been trying to make the point for a while now, this won't benefit credit sellers, or bring in more credits to the economy. Once this machine is used by enough people then it no longer possible to gain more credits than you sink in. Here is the scenario: As more people use it, more people will have access to mats for themselves and they won't buy any (beyond rare OPs materials), the excess will be sold (or they will attempt to), same goes for CM certificates (Only decorations bought with certificates can be sold and they will drop in price as well). Since a lot of people are using it, margins on the mats (and certificates) will decrease (each Purple jawa scrap have a cost of ~ 1800 credits when taking into account vendoring the rep items), making it almost impossible to generate credits from it. A credit seller will not be able to generate a positive credit income from it. This does two good things to the economy, first it lowers the prices of items and removes credits at the same with will reduce inflation. Two it will reduce the reliance of people on credit sellers (to a certain degree) since you no longer need to pay a hefty sum of credits to buy mats or crafted items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 They are already balanced or near the sweet spot, you argued with a lot of people over this in many threads and you were proven wrong. Nope, he wasn't. And it *is* getting nerfed, cling to hope all you want but it's coming. Just wait for all the whine and outrage next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Nope, he wasn't. And it *is* getting nerfed, cling to hope all you want but it's coming. Just wait for all the whine and outrage next week. It hasn't been confirmed as being nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 It hasn't been confirmed as being nerfed. Nope, they'll make "adjustment". If you want to believe its anything but a nerf go ahead, I'll not rob you of a few days of hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Nope, he wasn't. And it *is* getting nerfed, cling to hope all you want but it's coming. Just wait for all the whine and outrage next week. You know what I hope you get your wish, I hope they do nerf it. Just so that the next time they introduce a good credit sink for you to come out and ruin it again. Your irrational fear of change (even a good change as this one) will further ruin any illusion of economy in this game, and then I will come back to this thread and I will quote this reply and tell you: I told you so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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