The Contraband Slot Machine

[RahaylaCora]

Actually it is true, you simply disagree....and it is my opinion. AND it seems quite a few people don't "like it". Not to mention the absolute fact that they are adding materials from other sources though folks have been asking for improvements to crafting for YEARS.

 

...and they have stated they wanted to make level 11 mats more accessible as an excuse to add them to the machine, packs and conquests, not to mention the jawa vendors, which in my opinion was absolutely foolish.

 

I will define what I mean by my statements if you don't mind. After all, I am likely a better source as to their meaning than you are.

 

 

 

Fair enough.

"Far too low". So that is true, and truth and your opinion is the same. I can't deny truth. End of debate for me.

[Minigal]

You know what I'd like to see? The issue of mats being separated from the issue of making the slot machine a fun interactive GSH decoration again (and the release of future fun slot machines for the GSHs).

 

I just want to see some new non-mat prizes and rebalanced slot win percentages. At the very LEAST put the darn token purchase back to 500 credits--750 credits is abusive given the current iteration of the machine.

 

The fact that they have not done at least a tweak of the pay percentages///added some new prizes absolutely boggles my mind. I will assume something is in the works...otherwise, that means that Bioware 100% doesn't care about players involved in their GSHs who throw LOTS of cartel market coins at them for said decorations. Evidently, Bioware only cared about the mat-barons who were unhappy and not me and those like me. Point noted Bioware.

[Max_Killjoy]

The rate of purple drops from crew missions IS too low, that's why some players go gah-gah over any alternative source and why it's so easy for some players to feel like other sources make crew missions "pointless".

[LordArtemis]

"Far too low". So that is true, and truth and your opinion is the same. I can't deny truth. End of debate for me.

 

It is true that it is my opinion. It is not FACT. There is a BIG difference.

 

You can claim it is not a fact (it was not presented as such) but you can not claim it is not true. Presented as opinion it is absolutely accurate. Because.....it is my actual opinion.

 

Now, you want to find a quote I have presented where I present an opinion that contradicts this one...then you can claim it is untrue and point out what my real opinion would be based on that prior post.

 

Hopefully that clears this up.

[eartharioch]

The rate of purple drops from crew missions IS too low, that's why some players go gah-gah over any alternative source and why it's so easy for some players to feel like other sources make crew missions "pointless".

 

Comrade Killjoy, I'm too busy gouging people on the GTN to google, so can you check the back of your card and tell us what else Carl and Fred had to say about feudalism in swtor?

Edited February 7, 2015 by eartharioch

[Max_Killjoy]

Comrade Killjoy, I'm too busy gouging people on the GTN to google, so can you check the back of your card and tell us what else Carl and Fred had to say about feudalism in swtor?

 

Probably nothing, troll.

 

It's bad enough that moronic cries of "but socialism!" have pervaded what passes for political discourse in this country, now it's the default spewage of the "but you're making the game too easy" crybabies every time someone wants to take away their feels of being harcore and special, or turn the focus of the game away from their precious special profit centers and back towards actually playing the game.

 

Ignored. Get back under your bridge.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[LordArtemis]

I am not advocating a reduction in availability of mats, quite the opposite.

 

I am simply advocating the increase of mat results in missions and gathering to at least MATCH the level that is available right now by other means.

 

In other words, there is no need to provide mats using alternative means if they were provided in proper amounts in the traditional gathering and mission methods.

 

So, yes, I feel the returns are far too low. And considering that Bioware directly stated they wanted to make level 11 mats more abundant, and then provided them by alternative means I would say, to some degree, they share this view.

 

Which then begs the question, in my eyes...why provide them by alternative means when you could simply provide them using normal means instead?

 

That is the whole point. Provide the same amount as now, simply put them all in gathering and missions and remove them from the CSM, packs and conquests.

 

The amount remains the same, with one source....the proper source IMO.

[ivanhedgehog]

I am not advocating a reduction in availability of mats, quite the opposite.

 

I am simply advocating the increase of mat results in missions and gathering to at least MATCH the level that is available right now by other means.

 

In other words, there is no need to provide mats using alternative means if they were provided in proper amounts in the traditional gathering and mission methods.

 

So, yes, I feel the returns are far too low. And considering that Bioware directly stated they wanted to make level 11 mats more abundant, and then provided them by alternative means I would say, to some degree, they share this view.

 

Which then begs the question, in my eyes...why provide them by alternative means when you could simply provide them using normal means instead?

 

That is the whole point. Provide the same amount as now, simply put them all in gathering and missions and remove them from the CSM, packs and conquests.

 

The amount remains the same, with one source....the proper source IMO.

 

why is it the "proper" source? why is this some sacred cow to you? there is no difference between getting them from missions and having a trained nerf poop them out. none

[LordArtemis]

why is it the "proper" source?

 

Your asking a question that you likely already have the answer to. If you wish to make a statement, make it.

 

Why is this some sacred cow to you?

 

It is not a sacred cow obviously. But if you ask me why do I care, I can answer that....because I am a crafter. And crafting in this game has sucked since launch. I would like to see it improve.

 

there is no difference between getting them from missions and having a trained nerf poop them out. none

 

There is a big difference. Obviously. If you state it isn't a big deal, that is fine, as that would be your view. I obviously do not agree.

 

Perhaps take something you care about, some mechanism or content you participate in, take the reward and hand it out. Then you will understand my view on this. Some things I would like to work for. To me that is the essence of being a crafter.

 

Hence my views.

 

Believe it or not Ivanhedgehog, you do not need to have everyone agree with your views in order for them to have merit. Your contentions will stand on their own merit, as will mine.

Edited February 8, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Max_Killjoy]

It is not a sacred cow obviously. But if you ask me why do I care, I can answer that....because I am a crafter. And crafting in this game has sucked since launch. I would like to see it improve.

 

If you're a crafter, why do you care where your materials come from, as long as you can get them without a ton of contrived hassle?

[LordArtemis]

If you're a crafter, why do you care where your materials come from, as long as you can get them without a ton of contrived hassle?

 

Good question.

 

I like the gathering and mission mechanic. If I was creating the materials that would be fine as well. It is one of the few crafting mechanism from old school MMOs that remains.

 

The particulars vary, but essentially you are doing work to gain the materials needed to build and create things.

 

My question would be....why would you care if the materials only came from missions or gathering, but ended up being the exact same amount available as is now?

 

Can you answer that?

[Max_Killjoy]

Good question.

 

I like the gathering and mission mechanic. If I was creating the materials that would be fine as well. It is one of the few crafting mechanism from old school MMOs that remains.

 

The particulars vary, but essentially you are doing work to gain the materials needed to build and create things.

 

My question would be....why would you care if the materials only came from missions or gathering, but ended up being the exact same amount available as is now?

 

Can you answer that?

 

I'd be happy to see the drop rate of artifact mats from crew missions go up.

 

I'd be OK if they went up enough to at least match the current overall availability, and would be very happy with an increase that made them more common than they are now.

[LordArtemis]

I'd be happy to see the drop rate of artifact mats from crew missions go up.

 

I'd be OK if they went up enough to at least match the current overall availability, and would be very happy with an increase that made them more common than they are now.

 

Fair enough.

 

Understand, it is what I want to see, but I have no illusions that it is what everyone wants. If folks didn't like getting mats through conquests, packs or the CSM they would likely not exist.

 

I would definitely push for more common purple mats, especially lower end. Overall they could use a boost.

[eartharioch]

Perhaps take something you care about, some mechanism or content you participate in, take the reward and hand it out. Then you will understand my view on this. Some things I would like to work for. To me that is the essence of being a crafter.

 

Don't you mean your *new* view on this? When the machine was released, you were praising it (and the devs who made it) as if it were the Second Coming, just like Max and the rest of the red brigade. You only changed your tune when the devs hit the certs along with the jawa stuff.

 

I'm not trying to bust your balls, and I'm not happy with the current drop table, but you should be honest and admit that you wouldn't have complained if the devs would have kept the original drop rates in toto, and would have happily waved at me when I unsubbed (which I would have done with much less fanfare than you).

 

You're acting like a jilted bride, not a disappointed customer.

[LordArtemis]

Don't you mean your *new* view on this? When the machine was released, you were praising it (and the devs who made it) as if it were the Second Coming, just like Max and the rest of the red brigade. You only changed your tune when the devs hit the certs along with the jawa stuff.

 

I'm not trying to bust your balls, and I'm not happy with the current drop table, but you should be honest and admit that you wouldn't have complained if the devs would have kept the original drop rates in toto, and would have happily waved at me when I unsubbed (which I would have done with much less fanfare than you).

 

You're acting like a jilted bride, not a disappointed customer.

 

Not true. I said that the mats belonged in crew missions and scavenging from the very beginning. I was surprised they went this route, but accepted it as it was. It was better than nothing.

 

I said it over and over again....raise the coin price if you are going to keep mats on the machine, and raise the rate of drops from missions and gathering. i was very clear about that.

 

I changed my tune when the mats brought the machine down....I expected an adjustment. I didn't expect a nuke. But that still did not change the fact that I have VERY CLEARLY indicated I am against avoiding improvements to crafting.

 

And yes, I still very clearly support an increase in the cert drop rate. That has never changed.

 

YOU AND I argued over protectionism and the AMOUNT of mats available. I felt the mat level had to increase, just like Bioware indicated. You seemed to feel otherwise.

 

My post history in this very thread stands in evidence.

Edited February 8, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Max_Killjoy]

Not true. I said that the mats belonged in crew missions and scavenging from the very beginning. I was surprised they went this route, but accepted it as it was. It was better than nothing.

 

I said it over and over again....raise the coin price if you are going to keep mats on the machine, and raise the rate of drops from missions and gathering. i was very clear about that.

 

I changed my tune when the mats brought the machine down....I expected an adjustment. I didn't expect a nuke. But that still did not change the fact that I have VERY CLEARLY indicated I am against avoiding improvements to crafting.

 

And yes, I still very clearly support an increase in the cert drop rate. That has never changed.

 

YOU AND I argued over protectionism and the AMOUNT of mats available. I felt the mat level had to increase, just like Bioware indicated. You seemed to feel otherwise.

 

My post history in this very thread stands in evidence.

 

You're arguing with someone who thinks that "socialist" means "anyone who threatens my personal business model".

 

Never mind that he can't tell the difference between a game and an actual, real-world economy, and how wildly different the two things are.

 

Don't expect much in the way of rational discourse.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Djiini]

You're arguing with someone who thinks that "socialist" means "anyone who threatens my personal business model".

 

Don't expect much in the way of rational discourse.

 

Rational discourse left this thread about 150 pages ago.

[ivanhedgehog]

Your asking a question that you likely already have the answer to. If you wish to make a statement, make it.

 

 

 

It is not a sacred cow obviously. But if you ask me why do I care, I can answer that....because I am a crafter. And crafting in this game has sucked since launch. I would like to see it improve.

 

 

 

There is a big difference. Obviously. If you state it isn't a big deal, that is fine, as that would be your view. I obviously do not agree.

 

Perhaps take something you care about, some mechanism or content you participate in, take the reward and hand it out. Then you will understand my view on this. Some things I would like to work for. To me that is the essence of being a crafter.

 

Hence my views.

 

Believe it or not Ivanhedgehog, you do not need to have everyone agree with your views in order for them to have merit. Your contentions will stand on their own merit, as will mine.

 

crafting is taking mats and making something out of them. not sending out a flunky to look for them. the mechanism they originally chose to get those mats is cumbersome and frustrating. they can add other ways to get the mats or change the mechanism, or do both. for some reason you are heavily invested in making sure they dont allow ANY alternatives. all of your "solutions" would hamstring any alternative to sending flunkies out on missions. Making the non mission mats BOP is just 1 example. there should be no difference to mats gathered by any method. I have yet to hear anyone actually give a reason to have a difference.

[LordArtemis]

crafting is taking mats and making something out of them. not sending out a flunky to look for them. the mechanism they originally chose to get those mats is cumbersome and frustrating. they can add other ways to get the mats or change the mechanism, or do both. for some reason you are heavily invested in making sure they dont allow ANY alternatives. all of your "solutions" would hamstring any alternative to sending flunkies out on missions. Making the non mission mats BOP is just 1 example. there should be no difference to mats gathered by any method. I have yet to hear anyone actually give a reason to have a difference.

 

You have expressed your views, I have expressed mine, as I have said, they should stand on their own merits. Hopefully that is where we can let it stand.

[LordArtemis]

You're arguing with someone who thinks that "socialist" means "anyone who threatens my personal business model".

 

Never mind that he can't tell the difference between a game and an actual, real-world economy, and how wildly different the two things are.

 

Don't expect much in the way of rational discourse.

 

Well, him and I have had more than one run in in the past. So this is pretty much SOP.

[eartharioch]

You're arguing with someone who thinks that "socialist" means "anyone who threatens my personal business model".

 

Never mind that he can't tell the difference between a game and an actual, real-world economy, and how wildly different the two things are.

 

Don't expect much in the way of rational discourse.

 

Please show me where you think I've mentioned, defined, or even referenced *socialism* in this conversation. I'd like to think that we've been in this thread long enough that you wouldn't take me making an obviously over-the-top accusation of you being a *communist* as seriously as you are acting.

 

While you're at it, why don't you show me where I ever complained about [potential] harm, real or imagined, to my in-game finances or "personal business model". Hint, you can't, because I didn't. I complained because I thought the machine (as released) *unintentionally* "broke" the existing mechanics and market dynamics.

 

I don't want to repeat what I'm going to say to Artemis, but I should have it posted shortly; it should clarify *my* position.

[LordArtemis]

Please show me where you think I've mentioned, defined, or even referenced *socialism* in this conversation. I'd like to think that we've been in this thread long enough that you wouldn't take me making an obviously over-the-top accusation of you being a *communist* as seriously as you are acting.

 

While you're at it, why don't you show me where I ever complained about [potential] harm, real or imagined, to my in-game finances or "personal business model". Hint, you can't, because I didn't. I complained because I thought the machine (as released) *unintentionally* "broke" the existing mechanics and market dynamics.

 

I don't want to repeat what I'm going to say to Artemis, but I should have it posted shortly; it should clarify *my* position.

 

You don't have to defend yourself to me, you have a view and every right to it. And you and I have not disagreed on every point you have made.

 

If I made an accusation against you that is not accurate, that is of course another matter. I expect you to correct me on it and will accept that.

 

I simply stand against any unreasonable or inaccurate accusations pointed at my stance on this issue. My position has been clear in this entire thread...if you speak of my MOOD, it certainly has turned.

 

But this is not something I started saying in just this thread. I am well known for saying it for YEARS....crafting needs improvement, and the way to improve it is NOT, IMO, to provide mats from other sources. It is to improve mat availability from it's ORIGINAL source.

[eartharioch]

You don't have to defend yourself to me, you have a view and every right to it. And you and I have not disagreed on every point you have made.

 

If I made an accusation against you that is not accurate, that is of course another matter. I expect you to correct me on it and will accept that.

 

I simply stand against any unreasonable or inaccurate accusations pointed at my stance on this issue. My position has been clear in this entire thread...if you speak of my MOOD, it certainly has turned.

 

But this is not something I started saying in just this thread. I am well known for saying it for YEARS....crafting needs improvement, and the way to improve it is NOT, IMO, to provide mats from other sources. It is to improve mat availability from it's ORIGINAL source.

 

You replied to my response to Max...I'm still typing up my reply to you I will make sure that it takes these statements into account (and I don't mean that in a bad way).

[LordArtemis]

Don't you mean your *new* view on this?...

 

You're acting like a jilted bride, not a disappointed customer.

 

I hope it also takes hyperbole like this into account as well eartharioch. This was WAY out of line.

 

Note...that is not to say I haven't done my fair share of whining and gnashing teeth over the past week or so. I certainly have not demonstrated a reasonable amount of self control, not even close.

 

But new view? Jilted bride? Seems at bit predatory, don't you think?

Edited February 9, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Djiini]

I hope it also takes hyperbole like this into account as well eartharioch. This was WAY out of line.

 

Note...that is not to say I haven't done my fair share of whining and gnashing teeth over the past week or so. I certainly have not demonstrated a reasonable amount of self control, not even close.

 

But new view? Jilted bride? Seems at bit predatory, don't you think?

 

Dude, this thread is 175 pages long.

 

And I'm pretty sure you've been involved in most of it.

 

That's not predatory, that's ACCURATE.