The Contraband Slot Machine

[LordArtemis]

-snip-

 

You make a few fair points. I post my points in opposition to providing mats in conquests, packs and the slot machine. The very fact that they had to nerf the slot machine into oblivion stands as some evidence that some improved mat availability is good, too much is bad.

 

They do have a target...they must have a target. I refuse to believe this nerf was arbitrary.

 

And if that is the case, obviously crew missions and scavenging is NOT meeting that target, not to it's maximum capacity. All speculation, but logical speculation IMO.

 

Instead, those mats belong in traditional mat building methods.

[Drew_Braxton]

Any news on tweaking the drop rate?

[hachibushu]

lol. Fair enough. I can be a bit too predicable I suppose. Not much sport in that.

 

Perhaps I will use your post history to get some ideas......

 

Ouch... burn.

Edited January 29, 2015 by hachibushu

[Max_Killjoy]

Buy mission discoveries then, guaranteed purple drop and usually at a profitable rate over buying on the GTN ( especially with crits ).

 

Just checked. Cheapest 500 UT mission on my server's GTN = 35000. The rest are > 40000 credits.

 

No thanks, I'd just be feeding the beast.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Choloe]

Buy mission discoveries then, guaranteed purple drop and usually at a profitable rate over buying on the GTN ( especially with crits ).

 

ROFL, posted like a true Materials Barron... "Pay my 64k+ for a L500 mission"

[Drockter]

Just checked. Cheapest 500 UT mission on my server's GTN = 35000. The rest are > 40000 credits.

 

No thanks, I'd just be feeding the beast.

 

I don't pay for mine... have a guildmate that just ships them to me when he gets them... make similar arrangements with friends in game...

[Jeweledleah]

Just checked. Cheapest 500 UT mission on my server's GTN = 35000. The rest are > 40000 credits.

 

No thanks, I'd just be feeding the beast.

 

well.. your server is cheaper than mine.

 

slicing 140k (single mission, rest are 150k and up)

diplomacy 45k (2 missions, rest are 47k and up)

treasure hunting 45k (again, single mission, rest are 48k and up)

underworld trading 42k and up

 

when comparing to sales price of actual items you get from them.. on normal return, you save about 30% if you run missions yourself, vs buying mats. you certainly save a great deal of time. with slicing, you don't save anything at all - running a mission yourself, vs buying mats directly is same cost to a crafter.

 

but the thing is... these prices? they exist because of the droprate being that low. meanwhile...

 

blue mats are listed at UNDER vendor price again, they are just that common. (and yes I bought all those stacks and vendored them for small profit)

[eartharioch]

blue mats are listed at UNDER vendor price again, they are just that common. (and yes I bought all those stacks and vendored them for small profit)

 

Sometimes, when I'm bored and the listings work out, I'll buy up every blue mat in question that is below vendor price or (after GTN tax) will still make the seller "earn" less than the vendor price. I.e., if (sale price)/0.94 < vendor price. I then vendor all but one or two stacks and then relist at a price high enough over vendor price (-GTN commission, ofc) that the difference is more than I "overpaid" for the vendored items.

Edited January 29, 2015 by eartharioch

[Max_Killjoy]

And people wonder why I'd rather see the market FLOODED with those mats...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You make a few fair points. I post my points in opposition to providing mats in conquests, packs and the slot machine. The very fact that they had to nerf the slot machine into oblivion stands as some evidence that some improved mat availability is good, too much is bad.

 

They do have a target...they must have a target. I refuse to believe this nerf was arbitrary.

 

And if that is the case, obviously crew missions and scavenging is NOT meeting that target, not to it's maximum capacity. All speculation, but logical speculation IMO.

 

Instead, those mats belong in traditional mat building methods.

 

Indeed though if they really wanted to alter the drop rates and the economy as a result they need to put more thought into it and do it through the means that are available namely crew skills.

 

Conquest reward seems fair enough for the work required in crafting and mats used too ( some get it other ways but this is the main way ) and the CM packs well they do that as a means of extra money I would guess.

 

Either way both of the above were in the game for quite some time now and had little effect on the economy except the boost that adding grade 11's to Jawa vendors gave but that was short lived.

 

If more mats are deemed required by BW they should change the crit rate on the missions, adding materials to those slots was always a major mistake. They could have left it as rep items, a couple of rare vanity items from the packs that dropped that rep as a very rare drop and set cartel certs at say .5 ( 1 in 200 ) drop rate and everything would have been fine. No messing with the established economy and no having anyone whinge about the machine.

 

They ( Eric ) mentioned they wanted it to be easier to gain grade 11 purple mats yet the drop rates are the lowest of any grade I've seen. For example with mission discoveries drop 4 materials for all TH levels except this one that is 3 for some reason *shrug*. Just fix that.

 

I still stand by my view that they stuffed the nerf up but a lack of fix so far does tend to prove me wrong. It could also be they may agree the Jawa stuff should have never been put in to the machine at all but removing it entirely might have really pissed off the community ( though not much more than the current setup )

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Just checked. Cheapest 500 UT mission on my server's GTN = 35000. The rest are > 40000 credits.

 

No thanks, I'd just be feeding the beast.

 

What do the resulted mats go for? Not sure with UT.

 

Treasure hunting though I've been buying the MD's for 30-35K with mats going for about 20K each ( so 15Kish "profit" without a crit ). Same for Diplomacy though I except those purples to go up in price as supply dries up since the they use more Jawa to buy.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

ROFL, posted like a true Materials Barron... "Pay my 64k+ for a L500 mission"

 

If it's cheaper than cost of the materials then yes do that.

 

Otherwise get off your own lazy *** and collect your own materials or mission discoveries and stop being a whinger about it.

[Max_Killjoy]

What do the resulted mats go for? Not sure with UT.

 

Treasure hunting though I've been buying the MD's for 30-35K with mats going for about 20K each ( so 15Kish "profit" without a crit ). Same for Diplomacy though I except those purples to go up in price as supply dries up since the they use more Jawa to buy.

 

I don't care what they "go for", I'm not looking for artifact mats to sell, or concerned about how much the inputs to a mod or other gear cost for profit margin.

[eartharioch]

If more mats are deemed required by BW they should change the crit rate on the missions, adding materials to those slots was always a major mistake. They could have left it as rep items, a couple of rare vanity items from the packs that dropped that rep as a very rare drop and set cartel certs at say .5 ( 1 in 200 ) drop rate and everything would have been fine. No messing with the established economy and no having anyone whinge about the machine.

 

Given the general bugginess and low quality of SoR, I'm hesitant to ascribe any intent to what they did with the slot machine. However, had it been handled better, it does make some sort of sense.

 

Regardless of the crit rates, RNG is RNG, and sometimes you get a sucky run on the mat you want most. Rightly or wrongly, people complain about it because it sucks. Upping the crit rates would alleviate it a bit, but unless they seriously upped the crit rates, it wouldn't really change things. If they made any successful mission return 1 (or mats) it would would be as bad or worse than simply upping the rates. I'm assuming that BW wants *some* degree of unpredictability.

 

So, if you want *some* unpredictability, but also want to have a way for players to get out of a sucky set of runs, you add a second (or more) method of gathering the mats.

 

BW could have added a vendor, but that would (like the white mat vendor) effectively put a price cap on the mats, and I'm glad they didn't go that way.

 

Prior to the slot machine, there was the GTN and Jawa Junk from packs and Conquest. Apparently BW thought the GTN prices were too high, and JJ was unusable for Grade 11 mats. IMO, BW's mistake was adding Grade 11 mats to the JJ vendors and a slot machine awarding JJ (at any rate) at the same time. Once Grade 11 mats were added to the Jawa vendor, regardless of the exchange rate, they were tied to more stable lower grade mats.

 

In order to be viable as a method of *supplementing* gathered mats, the alternate methods should be inferior in one or more ways, which the release slot machine wasn't (and why many people wanted it).

 

In other words, I'm ok with BW adding a method of getting mats that is *more* predictable than running missions, but it needs to be less profitable overall. It should be for those times (like when gearing your own character, or one of a guildie or friend) when time is more important the the bottom line, not just for increasing the number of mats/items you can list per day.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't care what they "go for", I'm not looking for artifact mats to sell, or concerned about how much the inputs to a mod or other gear cost for profit margin.

 

Well if your only concern is getting mats to craft items for yourself then run the crew skills like everyone else, it might take a bit longer but you'll get there eventually and it will be nice and cheap.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

-snip -

In other words, I'm ok with BW adding a method of getting mats that is *more* predictable than running missions, but it needs to be less profitable overall. It should be for those times (like when gearing your own character, or one of a guildie or friend) when time is more important the the bottom line, not just for increasing the number of mats/items you can list per day.

 

Basically if time is an issue buy from the GTN with credits. If money is an issue gather it yourself. If you want the middle ground you can usually go to mission discoveries ( due to guaranteed purples ).

 

If that's still too expensive or takes too long then too bad. It is what it is.

 

I've left out Jawa Junk from conquest and cartel packs because to me they are probably the worst of the ways to gather materials if money/time are concerns.

 

I just personally can't get passed people who want everything right now but don't want to pay the market prices everyone else is paying for it. There is nothing to do with crafting that anyone NEEDS anyway.

 

My opinion anyway, worked fine before, no need for extras like a slot machine.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well if your only concern is getting mats to craft items for yourself then run the crew skills like everyone else, it might take a bit longer but you'll get there eventually and it will be nice and cheap.

 

Been keeping track the last couple weeks. Using a maxed-affection +crit companion, it still takes about 10-12 missions to get an artifact mat drop, at a cost of about 3800 credits each time, or about 42000 credits for a return of a couple Midlithe or Doonium.

 

Not what I'd consider "cheap", but then, I don't have 10 million credits to routinely through around, either.

[eartharioch]

Basically if time is an issue buy from the GTN with credits. If money is an issue gather it yourself. If you want the middle ground you can usually go to mission discoveries ( due to guaranteed purples ).

 

If that's still too expensive or takes too long then too bad. It is what it is.

 

I've left out Jawa Junk from conquest and cartel packs because to me they are probably the worst of the ways to gather materials if money/time are concerns.

 

I just personally can't get passed people who want everything right now but don't want to pay the market prices everyone else is paying for it. There is nothing to do with crafting that anyone NEEDS anyway.

 

My opinion anyway, worked fine before, no need for extras like a slot machine.

 

I agree that there was no need, I was stating the sort of math/analysis I think should have been done before releasing the slots.

 

Before the slots, we had:

 

Running Rich/Bountiful missions -- lowest cost, least predictability, most time, always available (with login dance)

Running Wealthy missions -- slightly higher cost to run, more predictable, medium time, variable availability

Buy off GTN -- highest cost, most predictable, least time, variable availability

 

TBH, the slot machine was named after a pack release, and packs had mats, so I don't mind them being included, although I'd hardly call it an elegant solution.

 

All I'm saying is that whether or not *I* think I need an additional way to get mats (which I don't), if one is added it should be balanced with (and not replace) the others.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Been keeping track the last couple weeks. Using a maxed-affection +crit companion, it still takes about 10-12 missions to get an artifact mat drop, at a cost of about 3800 credits each time, or about 42000 credits for a return of a couple Midlithe or Doonium.

 

Not what I'd consider "cheap", but then, I don't have 10 million credits to routinely through around, either.

 

Khevar did a pretty in depth tracking of the missions and came out at about 4K (after selling blues ) for those crystals perhaps, maybe he is reading and can comment but I would trust his data as I believe he has kept very strict track of it since launch.

 

10-12 missions alone sounds like really bad luck with RNG since the rate is around 20% or 1 in 5.

 

But the point remains if you think that's too expensive a price to pay ( isn't it cheaper on GTN? Not sure what the drop rate is, I only run mission discoveries ) then don't pay it. Find something else to do/craft/make if your morals won't justify letting you pay that. Whatever you plan on crafting with the material I am sure you don't NEED and really only WANT.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

TBH, the slot machine was named after a pack release, and packs had mats, so I don't mind them being included, although I'd hardly call it an elegant solution.

 

All I'm saying is that whether or not *I* think I need an additional way to get mats (which I don't), if one is added it should be balanced with (and not replace) the others.

 

Fair enough though if they wanted to add mats maybe they should have done just that? Made it drop 1 random mat and forget the jawa junk etc. altogether?

 

Keep it with a drop rate akin to what it was but have it drop 1 random material as opposed to 1 junk. You might luck out and get a 20K mat or you might get a 200 credit mat. The reason I think of this is because you mentioned the pack had mats in it and you're right as I just bought a few yesterday - they didn't have jawa junk back then.

[Max_Killjoy]

Khevar did a pretty in depth tracking of the missions and came out at about 4K (after selling blues ) for those crystals perhaps, maybe he is reading and can comment but I would trust his data as I believe he has kept very strict track of it since launch.

 

10-12 missions alone sounds like really bad luck with RNG since the rate is around 20% or 1 in 5.

 

But the point remains if you think that's too expensive a price to pay ( isn't it cheaper on GTN? Not sure what the drop rate is, I only run mission discoveries ) then don't pay it. Find something else to do/craft/make if your morals won't justify letting you pay that. Whatever you plan on crafting with the material I am sure you don't NEED and really only WANT.

 

It's a game. Any reference to "need" and "don't need" is meaningless.

 

That's not just 10-12 missions run, that's 2+ weeks worth of missions, coming up to an average of about one "purple drop" per 10-12 missions, despite using a 10k affection, +2 critical crew to run them.

 

On my server at this moment, cheapest GTN price for Doonium is 18k per unit, and cheapest GTN price for Midlithe is 30k per unit. It takes multiple daily mission rewards to buy a single unit of a damn crafting material. It's silly.

[eartharioch]

Keep it with a drop rate akin to what it was but have it drop 1 random material as opposed to 1 junk. You might luck out and get a 20K mat or you might get a 200 credit mat. The reason I think of this is because you mentioned the pack had mats in it and you're right as I just bought a few yesterday - they didn't have jawa junk back then.

 

I actually suggested that earlier in one of the many threads on the issue (but I can't blame you for missing it, I know I haven't read every post of every thread myself). By dropping JJ, you have to base the expected drop rate of the most expensive mat. If, like the earlier packs did, it dropped a random mat of the appropriate grade, you can base the expected drop rate on the [weighted] average resale value, which would allow you to drop mats at a higher rate (and increase the expected time to get a given mat).

 

IMO, this would have increased the "fun" value of playing (more prize variety and higher win rate) while decreasing the feeling that playing the machine was "work".

Edited January 30, 2015 by eartharioch

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's a game. Any reference to "need" and "don't need" is meaningless.

 

That's not just 10-12 missions run, that's 2+ weeks worth of missions, coming up to an average of about one "purple drop" per 10-12 missions, despite using a 10k affection, +2 critical crew to run them.

 

On my server at this moment, cheapest GTN price for Doonium is 18k per unit, and cheapest GTN price for Midlithe is 30k per unit. It takes multiple daily mission rewards to buy a single unit of a damn crafting material. It's silly.

 

Exactly ... it's a game, those are the drop rates you're experiencing ( outside the norm ) and those are the prices things sell for ... what's the issue exactly? Remembering ... it's a game ...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I actually suggested that earlier in one of the many threads on the issue (but I can't blame you for missing it, I know I haven't read every post of every thread myself). By dropping JJ, you have to base the expected drop rate of the most expensive mat. If, like the earlier packs did, it dropped a random mat of the appropriate grade, you can base the expected drop rate on the [weighted] average resale value, which would allow you to drop mats at a higher rate (and increase the expected time to get a given mat).

 

IMO, this would have increased the "fun" value of playing (more prize variety and higher win rate) while decreasing the feeling that playing the machine was "work".

 

It would also for all intents and purposes not affect the market quite as much because it would generally be operating at a loss so there wouldn't be the influx of materials we saw before.

[Max_Killjoy]

Exactly ... it's a game, those are the drop rates you're experiencing ( outside the norm ) and those are the prices things sell for ... what's the issue exactly? Remembering ... it's a game ...

 

That they make the game less enjoyable and more of a chore than anything.

 

Gear is a tool, not a goal.