Bruceme Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 why do you think that they are 2-3 crafters on each server that will do combines for free if you bring the materials. simply they know that competition would reduce the chances of people buying their crafting components on the GTN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Crafter can get their own mats with crew missions, they do not need to buy any stuff out of the GTN. At least i am doing it that way. i have maxed all crewskills... no i don't need to buy out of the GTN. i can waste my time trying to crit for a purple. that is the point I am making. something is off on the crit rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Those prices people complain about are for premium gear, not starter gear. A group in full 186 mods, armorings, enhancements, barrels, hilt and augments can easily destroy HM fps and SM ops as long as they know the mechanics. Stop acting like 186 is starter gear. You aren't destroying HM 60 FPs and SM 60 Ops in 186 basic comm gear that's not augmented. So crafted 186 gear IS starter gear, because even if you use the gear obtained with comms or quest lines, you still need to augment it to be effective at endgame content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 i have maxed all crewskills... no i don't need to buy out of the GTN. i can waste my time trying to crit for a purple. that is the point I am making. something is off on the crit rate. Well i have maxed everything too and i can craft everyting i want. It just takes some time. Thats all. And that time is not so huge that it is not worth doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It's why we don't get to have nice stuff you forgot this. (hint: click on the emoticon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm a crafting, i have 4 crafting crew skills at 500 which i use to make things for myself and my Guild. wasn't upset at all at the Jawa junk, made it easier to get the purple mats and i stocked up a little bit. Only people i can see the machine would annoy is Crafters who don't own one or have access or people who sell mats on the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Well i have maxed everything too and i can craft everyting i want. It just takes some time. Thats all. And that time is not so huge that it is not worth doing it. something is off on the crit rate that is the point. the market makers know this, Adaptive Circuitry can run you 40k-65k a pop, that is why Midlithe Crystals were running at 30k a pop. you sound like my buddy who owns his own guild ship, has 12 + toons at the max credit limit. you make it sound so easy, but deep down you know the truth. these items should not cost so much because of the fact they are mandatory for the end game design. Edited January 22, 2015 by Bruceme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Resource sellers aren't evil, nor are they gouging. They've taken the time to level a gathering mission skill and then sent companions out on endless missions to gather a few artifact mats. Considering that you only get artifact mats from criticals on Wealthy (from slicing mission criticals, by the way, cost almost 6k to send a comp out on and take 3+ hours to complete), Rich and Bountiful and you only get those 21 to 25% of the time depending on the companion... They have a lot of time and money invested in gathering those mats, to expect them to be cheap is ludicrous. And the people who were doing that and earning credits to do it, allowing crafters to buy the mats they otherwise might not be able to get due to poor luck, got absolutely shafted the moment that slot machine hit. The people whining about "being gouged" have absolutely no clue the amount of time and credits it takes to get those mats. Instead of crying about the slot machine, how about raising hell about the drop rates or amounts of each drop you get with the gathering missions? That at least keeps the Cartel Market from further interfering with game play mechanics. For once we agree... Crafters and Resource gathers deserve to earn on providing the services they provide. We didnt actually disagree on this point in previous threads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You don't think the whining about the nerf is already double what it was pre-nerf? It is at least triple... Lets go for 10 times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eres Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The chance is too low now. For 2.500mil credits I've got ~10 jawa scraps of each color and 5 certeficates. It's counting all reputation I've resaled to get new chips. Plz, devs, either drop the price for slot chips or increase chances for jawa scraps and certificates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 why do you think that they are 2-3 crafters on each server that will do combines for free if you bring the materials. simply they know that competition would reduce the chances of people buying their crafting components on the GTN Not to mention if you actually do undercut them, they will undercut you until you price so low they can buy it up and relist at their price for a good profit. There are a handful of people who control the markets on each server, and they have erected a paywall to any newcomers to the game. PS. Wanna bet alot of those people offering crafting for mats plus tips are also double dipping by being the ones to sell the mats as well? I know quite a few on my server are doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) funny thing is i believe it's not the crafters that were upset about the Junk Drops (i craft on most of my characters in every profession), it was the people that only gather and sell on the GTN that had the problem, the junk just made things easier for crafters to kit out their alts and guildies without having to rely on the Gatherers selling on the GTN... and yes the drop rates were too high but they didn't need to lower them to -0%, that's just too far, make it fair but not super-easy or useless... there's always a middle ground somewhere... This right here sums it up. I craft, and couldnt care less about the jawa junk. On the other hand I'm also not a gtn mats mogul. All mats I gather are for use my my alts, my friends, and my guild. Its a matter of self sufficiency for me. Know what interested me from the machines? The certs, which I use to buy decorations for my strongholds, and to donate to my guilds flagship. If you want to point fingers and place blame, blame the ones most affected by the mats, those whose sole purpose for collecting mats was to sell them for profit. I dont sell mats, if I end up with a crapton of blue mats trying to get purples I will make some blue items and toss them on the gtn to make space ( gotta put all those extra CM boots, bracers, belts, and gloves somewhere ) I agreed the purple jawa junk needed to be fixed, and that's what Erics post said would be fixed, but it wasn't, they annihilated everything but the rep stuff. About the ONLY people who -wanted- this, are the ones who it impacted the most, those who directly sell mats for profit. Edited January 22, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So, people like the OP just want to sit at their computer and keep clicking a RNG all evening just to gain crap to sell on the GTN to get millions in fake money to do what? To buy stuff like armor and mounts? Why? You're not even playing the game, just sitting and clicking a silly slot machine...I don't get it. Entitlement? Being the "rich" guy in fantasy land? Makes no sense to me. Alot of people like me, just used it for crafting mats. Besides maybe the first two days, there wasnt any real profit selling the mats. Also, it wasnt crafters that the CSM annoyed, it was the mat sellers, who craft nothing, and just send comps out on missions and went on their way. If they actually adjusted the slot correctly, honestly I think people with the patience to sit there have more of a reason to charge for mats, since they cant play while doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockcrown Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 you are mistaken if you think crafting is the key to credits in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) something is off on the crit rate that is the point. the market makers know this, Adaptive Circuitry can run you 40k-65k a pop, that is why Midlithe Crystals were running at 30k a pop. you sound like my buddy who owns his own guild ship, has 12 + toons at the max credit limit. you make it sound so easy, but deep down you know the truth. these items should not cost so much because of the fact they are mandatory for the end game design. The crit rate is 20% with full affection companions. I have two toons with Treasure Hunting. In the morning before going off to work, I kick off "Dust to Diamond" and "The Log Way There" on each. In the evening before going to bed, I do it again. That's 8 missions run per day with very little effort, with one or two of those missions (on average) returning purple mats. I got enough Midlithe to craft the relics, hilts and enhancements that I needed. Never bought any Midlithe off the GTN. Never sold any for that matter (I preferred using them for myself). Edited January 22, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hmm that's weird because last week people were complaining that the slot machines destroyed crew missions (meaning they had a reasonable return before the slots) . Not once yesterday did you mention crew skills so are you just trying to work into next weeks conplaint? You know when slots wear off you guys will need something else. I know it is strange me coming to LAs defense, but he has been saying the crew missions have been broke, and needs a higher return since the whole slot machine argument started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choloe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 yea it's not crafters who where the original complainers, but farmers using their "crafter" card, convenient I know:cool: Y'know - NOT every crafter was out to screw people over. I craft crap all the time for myself, my wife, and my guild-mates and ask for materials if they have them, or do it for FREE. The return rate on PURPLE MATS and even some greens are insanely low!! Please, don't lump all of us into the same 'effing category! And Material Barron's and Credit Farmers are the ones making out with this machine made into a different thing like it is now. If you CAN'T understand why people are angry, then you are just posting to make the situation worse. And, the fact that BioWare has said NOTHING is even more bothersome. They were quick to appease the "cry babies" but are dead silent to address those of us that PAID; REAL MONEY, for the coins to get the machine in the first place... I invite a moderator to look at my account and see what I've spent in REAL MONEY for this and other things - and I don't flood my server's GTN with overpriced crap. This game is where I choose to SPEND my Entertainment money - I don't drink, I don't use drugs, but my wife and I play this game - and I buy coins for Deco and other "cool" stuff... This machine was a cool thing that helped me help myself, and my friends... Now? it's as useful as the 1-credit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCardinal Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You aren't destroying HM 60 FPs and SM 60 Ops in 186 basic comm gear that's not augmented. So crafted 186 gear IS starter gear, because even if you use the gear obtained with comms or quest lines, you still need to augment it to be effective at endgame content. No 186 Is still not starting gear, would you feel better if they change basic to SCRAP coms insteed then ? The LOWEST we can craft is Green = start gear. Artifact gear have never been starting gear ever in this game nor likely never be, most want them due to they are better and makes it simpler to do things, that don't make it starting gear. As for basic coms, well all other was removed and BASIC is simply a NAME not in anyway does it imply starting gear now does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 ^this They can buff crew skills in todays patch or nerf machines, they decided to nerf machines. They are lazy as hell, you could not expect more from them! Or... instead of EITHER ONE OF THOSE... They could have fixed the loot drops and bugs in the new 3.0 ops... Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 No 186 Is still not starting gear, would you feel better if they change basic to SCRAP coms insteed then ? The LOWEST we can craft is Green = start gear. Artifact gear have never been starting gear ever in this game nor likely never be, most want them due to they are better and makes it simpler to do things, that don't make it starting gear. As for basic coms, well all other was removed and BASIC is simply a NAME not in anyway does it imply starting gear now does it. You're right, 186 is LEVEL 58 GEAR.. so it's not even level 60 starting gear, it's leveling gear. The only part of the 186 gear on the vendor that is level 60 is the shells, if you rip the mods out, they are level 58 and you can send them to level 58 alts via legacy gear. So it's leveling gear. PS Low level gear has artifact grade as well, but it's still leveling gear. In fact a good many quests award it. The fact that it is artifact grade or not does not make it starter gear or not.. Let's not forget before 2.0 came out, they gave you a set of Tionese gear for free (same time period as Recruit gear for PvP), and that was artifact gear as well. Also, 186 gear doesn't drop in SM Ops, 192 does. So 186 is at best starter gear, at worst leveling gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The crit rate is 20% with full affection companions. I have two toons with Treasure Hunting. In the morning before going off to work, I kick off "Dust to Diamond" and "The Log Way There" on each. In the evening before going to bed, I do it again. That's 8 missions run per day with very little effort, with one or two of those missions (on average) returning purple mats. I got enough Midlithe to craft the relics, hilts and enhancements that I needed. Never bought any Midlithe off the GTN. Never sold any for that matter (I preferred using them for myself). crit rate is not reaching 20 percent, they may have told you crit rate on adaptives and midlithe were at 20, but its not coming up that way. this is why the machine came into being. have you noticed that EA seems to have a problem getting the percentages right on everything from random generators on Cartel machines, to crafting machines, to loot randoms. the math is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) somebody pointed out earlier, even with the Cartel machine the markup on the GTN was essentially the same. if it cost about 1k in credits to get purple mat, that mat would end up on the GTN for 7-8k. previously that same mat would be 25-30k at similar markup. the difference is, starting at a lower price point the item now becomes more affordable. But for the Market Speculator, turned forum whiner their job becomes more difficult even though the net percentages remain the same. Edited January 22, 2015 by Bruceme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 crit rate is not reaching 20 percent, they may have told you crit rate on adaptives and midlithe were at 20, but its not coming up that way. this is why the machine came into being. have you noticed that EA seems to have a problem getting the percentages right on everything from random generators on Cartel machines, to crafting machines, to loot randoms. the math is off. I beg to differ. You see, I've been hearing complaints about crafting percentages for 3 years. "RE isn't 10%/20%", "Crew Mission percent is too low", etc. So when 3.0 dropped, I logged every single crew mission I ran, until I got bored and stopped doing it. It's pretty danged close to 20%. Other people have done similar tests. The more missions they run, the closer the expected percentages are reached. On the other hand, the people that say "no the percentages are wrong!" only provide anecdotal information. As you just did above. Want to make a case for the crit rate being out of whack? Start logging your missions. If you're right, you'll have some actual useful data to bring to the bugs forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta_V Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 funny thing is i believe it's not the crafters that were upset about the Junk Drops (i craft on most of my characters in every profession), it was the people that only gather and sell on the GTN that had the problem, the junk just made things easier for crafters to kit out their alts and guildies without having to rely on the Gatherers selling on the GTN... and yes the drop rates were too high but they didn't need to lower them to -0%, that's just too far, make it fair but not super-easy or useless... there's always a middle ground somewhere... That, or crafters who didn't want the slot machine to be the *only* viable method of gathering mats. Personally, I craft, and was not happy with the slot machine pre-nerf (it rendered the mission skills pointless) and am not happy with it post-nerf (now the slot machine is pointless instead). I just did not like the idea of this machine becoming the dominant method of obtaining mats, by reducing the value of the mats to the point where it wasn't profitable to get them from crew missions. The price of the mats obtained from the machine was so much lower that people would be able to craft items with them and sell those items at a price that wasn't profitable using mats from crew missions. For one, this put anyone who didn't own a slot machine at a serious disadvantage when it came to crafting, and two, it set a precedent for tying an in-game activity to a Cartel Market item. Also, I would rather be able to craft profitably using mats from crew missions, since those at least let me do other things at the same time. But if I have to get my mats from the slot machine, that means I'm stuck there clicking a button over and over. I'm fine with people getting *some* mats from the slot machine, as long as it doesn't render the crew missions obsolete. But the current state of the slot machine (essentially useless once you hit Legend rank) is just as bad as the pre-nerf state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisweaver Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This machine was a cool thing that helped me help myself, and my friends... Now? it's as useful as the 1-credit one. lol the 1 credit machine doesn't take your money, I would say once you have the rep the cheaper one is more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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