The Contraband Slot Machine

[tummiswtor]

Its not hard to win. Just click on machine one hand and in second get a phone or watch TV

[Friend-Referral]

You are so out of context in this reply it's just silly.

 

A) I was simply reinforcing the fact that yes.. many people believed the drop rates on purple jawa junk was too high and needed toning down. The studio first said working as intended, then later agreed, and then did much much more. The high purple drop rates were undermining the purple materials market for crafters and so yeah.. it did have merit in some tweaking.

 

B) Some people also objected to cert drop rates too... but not nearly to the magnitude you are stating. Nor did the studio ever comment on cert drop rates, or blue junk drop rates, or green drop rates, or token refund rates.... yet they severely nerfed them all. No toning down... they just outright nuked them.

 

C) I said nothing about patch notes whatsoever... so stop with the deliberate misdirecton. My comments were about ongoing forum discussion, including comments by the studio, in the time prior to the studio patching.

 

What players ended up with was a reputation token dispenser. It probably should have been released that way to begin with and players would have embraced it for what it was. Then, we might also have gotten slots for other Galactic Market rep factions as well. Instead... they killed the idea completely.

Didn't you rage quit over this issue??? LOL

Edited January 2, 2017 by ColorfulCaiques

[Muljo_Stpho]

I think I have some better rates.

 

It's not so much "better" as you've reported statistics from a couple actual observations of the machine's RNG in action while I was simply giving a theoretical expectation based on the known drop rates. (And to repeat the disclaimer there, actual results may end up with more or less of the good drops depending on your own luck with the game's RNG. The calculated expectation is not a promise that you will get those exact amounts.) Anyway, the number of certificates from your smaller sample does fall kind of close to the theoretical expectation. (You were luckier than the expectation in your larger sample though.)

 

Cartel Certificates (2) (0.066%)

 

While the drop rates say 0.05% chance for a certificate, that is not representative of what percentage of your tokens turn into a certificate because there's also the 20% chance of getting your token back. So if you factor out the re-spin result the actual final totals predict that 0.0625% of your tokens turn into certificates. Your result was 1.056 times as much as the expectation.

 

A correction: Your 0.066% is NOT saying that you had a 0.066% chance on each spin to get a certificate. It's saying that 0.066% of the tokens that you invested into the machine ended up as certificates after you were done spinning/re-spinning all of your tokens away.

 

You still had a 0.05% chance on each individual spin. It's just that you get more than 3000 spins out of 3000 tokens. Somewhere around 600 of the 3000 spins would get you your token back, and then somewhere around 120 of those next 600 spins would get you your token back again, and then about 24 of those next 120 spins, and almost 5 of those next 24 spins, and 1 of those next 5 spins. So it was probably something more like 3750 spins in total from those 3000 tokens.

 

Of course then those 400 returned tokens get run through the machine, and you'll have some more returned tokens among that set of results so those carry forward as well. Ultimately after all of the tokens have been burned off the sum of the expected results of each of those rounds of using the machine will be 424.97 green rep, 325.00 blue rep, 112.50 purple rep, 5.00 green scrap, 3.75 blue scrap, 2.50 purple scrap, 1.25 cartel certificate, and 0.02 mount.

 

These expectations were calculated based on a sample size of 2000 tokens. 1.25 certificates is 0.0625% of 2000 tokens. (That percentage stays the same when calculating the expectations for different sample sizes.)

 

So in theory it's 1600 tokens per 1 certificate. (1 is 0.0625% of 1600.) That's 1.2 mil spent. Plugging 1600 as the sample size into my spreadsheet... Expectations will include ~340 green rep, 260 blue rep, and 90 purple rep, which are worth ~655,000 credits when sold to the vendor. (That's 54.58% of the initial 1.2 mil investment.) So that knocks the 1.2 mil down to 545,000 credits. That's to (in theory) receive 4 green scrap, 3 blue scrap, 2 purple scrap, and 1 certificate. (To repeat the point yet again, actual results can of course end up better or worse depending on your luck. Some may not see a certificate in a sample that size and some may see two of them.* RNG is a fickle beast. Some may have better or worse luck on the pricier rep drops and get more or less than 54.58% of their initial investment back as well. But for hundreds of users over thousands of trials the average of all of the results ought to be close to the calculated expectations.)

 

* Hmmm.... Your sample of 10,000 tokens... 1600 goes into that 6.25 times, so that's the expected number of certificates for that sample size. You lucked out and got 8 of them (so you definitely got multiple within a span of 1600 tokens somewhere in there). That's 1.28 times as many as expected.

[Ryenke]

I have been using the slot machine a lot lately, when logged in and have other screen on a movie I'm hoarding the stackable rep certs.

 

On 6 different toons I've purchased and played a total of 12000 coins (2000 coins per toon). I'm NOT reinvesting the rep certs - I'm saving them for quick credit that I can get from vendor if I need credits when my sub runs out and I'm preferred.

 

I've seen 7 cartel certs (lucky I think) and around 60 jawa pieces (haven't paid too much attention to which color). No mount. Each toon has about 1150k in certs they can vendor in the future.

 

I used the cartel certs to buy decos and sold them on the GTN. Credit wise I'm a little up from pre coin purchase thanks to the deco sales. But it took LOTS of game time - so I'd say it is a wash. If there were anything else to do in game that I enjoyed now, it wouldn't have been worth it.

[AlphaTmoore]

I agree. based on the prices I said earlier, I do not thing the certificates should be buffed, but perhaps lower the "nothing" to 25% and distribute the junk in the gap created.

[Xo-Lara]

Lowering the nothing results and expanding the drop table would work too. I for one would like to see more decorations. Honestly, I think this would have been a much better place for grand chance cubes than cartel packs. People don't mind parting with their credits as long as they feel they are getting something out of it.

[SebastiaanZ]

Two years on this issue still has not been resolved to customer satisfaction. (I've said since the beginning I will never let this go)

 

Any chance with Keith in action now, that this absolutely uncalled for and stupid decision can be revisited and fixed at least to a more acceptable rate?

 

Pretty please?

[RaiderMid]

Digging up the dead horse just to beat it again? It's just dust at this point.

[Andryah]

Two years on this issue still has not been resolved to customer satisfaction. (I've said since the beginning I will never let this go)

 

Any chance with Keith in action now, that this absolutely uncalled for and stupid decision can be revisited and fixed at least to a more acceptable rate?

 

Pretty please?

 

They should just make it drop certificates and faction tokens as some reasonable rate, so players can use it for it's actual intended purpose. Then release new ones for the rest of the Cartel Factions... same recipe, same results.

 

Nobody really needs it to drop junk now days, much less the super duper rare mount. We have other ways to get the same or better now days, and that would eliminate the complaint points of those that worked so hard to get the studio to nerf it to dust.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Andryah

[Nmyownworld]

Digging up the dead horse just to beat it again? It's just dust at this point.

There's a new sheriff now, and the town folk are hopeful for a positive change. Or, at least a response.

 

The Contraband Slot Machine was a good idea that was:

 

- Poorly implemented

- Beaten to mush with a nerf hammer

- Got the (then) standard Dev response of silence, ignoring the situation and the players.

 

I like the concept of slot machine Stronghold decorations providing a way to get a variety of reputation no longer available from Cartel packs. I'm guessing at the possibility of other such slot machines providing different reputation. Also serving as a way to get Cartel Certificates, and a reasonable credit sink. I don't mind expressing interest in the future of such slot machines, and I'd like to know if this is on Keith Kanneg's radar.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Nmyownworld

[Ylliarus]

There's a new sheriff now, and the town folk are hopeful for a positive change. Or, at least a response.

 

The Contraband Slot Machine was a good idea that was:

 

- Poorly implemented

- Beaten to mush with a nerf hammer

- Got the (then) standard Dev response of silence, ignoring the situation and the players.

 

I like the concept of slot machine Stronghold decorations providing a way to get a variety of reputation no longer available from Cartel packs. I'm guessing at the possibility of other such slot machines providing different reputation. Also serving as a way to get Cartel Certificates, and a reasonable credit sink. I don't mind expressing interest in the future of such slot machines, and I'd like to know if this is on Keith Kanneg's radar.

 

Recently I tried to get 1 Cartel Market certificate in the hopes of being able to use it at the Cartel Bazaar. I spent 650 tokens in total (I get that people spend more) and not a single Certificate dropped. The Slot machine really is a great idea but extremely poorly implemented at the moment. It would be amazing to see some expansion regarding the Contraband Slot Machine. First of all, drop rate of the Cartel Certificates needs to go up. When there were still packs around that dropped those I understood why the Slot Machines had a low droprate. But now not a single pack is dropping the Certificates so the drop rate has to be changed accordingly.

Also, it would be cool to have some other items drop from there as well. Reputation seems the best choice but reputation from various sources, not the Contraband one only. Since RNG is so fun and exciting, why not give us some more items to RNG with from the Contraband Slot Machine?

[Muljo_Stpho]

I still like the idea I used to propose on this subject where the machine could include some sort of prize ticket as a more common alternative to the cartel certificate drop, and then add options to the rep vendor where all of the items they sell have an alternative pricing using those prize tickets.

 

Add the other machines based around each of the other reputations. Each machine has its own separate prize ticket associated with that specific rep vendor. Maybe as an example you might expect on average 25 prize tickets to drop for every certificate that drops, and in the pricings at the vendor each 1 cert and each 100k (or however many) credits in the normal costs would translate to about 10-15 prize tickets (maybe a bit more or less than that, depending on the item) in the alternative costs. All of the stuff from the rep vendors is cosmetic and bind on pickup anyway, right? So prize tickets wouldn't offer any way to try to make a profit selling rewards on the GTN. It would be purely about getting the items because you want them for yourself.

[BlackSilverRoar]

Cartel Market Certificates: the drop rate really needs to increase, big time, for the Contraband Slot Machine.

 

PLEASE un-nerf.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Cartel Market Certificates: the drop rate really needs to increase, big time, for the Contraband Slot Machine.

 

PLEASE un-nerf.

 

I don't know how I feel about this. The only reason people want more CM certs is because it is easier to obtain reputation from GC ranks.

 

I get it though -- Galactic Command crates drops rep in order to make the grind more worthwhile. The incentive is too low otherwise. (and still is, regardless)

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[berelinde]

I don't know how I feel about this. The only reason people want more CM certs is because it is easier to obtain reputation from GC ranks.

 

I get it though -- Galactic Command crates drops rep in order to make the grind more worthwhile. The incentive is too low otherwise. (and still is, regardless)

Very few people use the Contraband Slot Machine for the reputation tokens. They want the Cartel Market Certificates because a lot of the most popular gear (Mask of Nihilus, Marka Ragnos robes, etc), mounts (command thrones, hoverchairs, etc), and stronghold decorations (jawas, dancers, etc) require Cartel Market Certificates. You can buy the decos on the GTN, but you're going to pay a young fortune for them. The gear and mounts are character-bound.

 

I do think Cartel Market Certificates should find their way back into the economy somehow. Increasing the drop rate for the contrabaand slot machine is one way, but a better one might be to add them to the list of things that can drop from a chance cube.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Didn't you rage quit over this issue??? LOL

 

Yes. Yes he did.

 

I swear this topic is like herpes. It keeps coming back.

Edited May 5, 2017 by DarkSaberMaster

[docbenwayddo]

I don't know how I feel about this. The only reason people want more CM certs is because it is easier to obtain reputation from GC ranks....

 

I may be wrong, but I've never gotten actual CM reputation trophies in Command Crates. They are always for reputations that can be acquired in game through events and daily areas. I'd not find the trophies to be such of a wasted crate slot if they were for reputation that is otherwise impossible to get.

[BlackSilverRoar]

I don't know how I feel about this. The only reason people want more CM certs is because it is easier to obtain reputation from GC ranks.

 

I get it though -- Galactic Command crates drops rep in order to make the grind more worthwhile. The incentive is too low otherwise. (and still is, regardless)

 

?? What are you talking about?? I said nothing about rep or GC anything. You're mixing the two up, CM and GC. I, like others, strongly don't believe in getting CM rep in GC. I don't want rep, I only want a higher drop rate on Cartel Market Certificates, as I ALREADY have the reputation for the Cartel Market vendors!!! The only way I can utilize my rep with them >>> Cartel Market Certificates!

Edited May 5, 2017 by Willjb

[BlackSilverRoar]

Very few people use the Contraband Slot Machine for the reputation tokens. They want the Cartel Market Certificates because a lot of the most popular gear (Mask of Nihilus, Marka Ragnos robes, etc), mounts (command thrones, hoverchairs, etc), and stronghold decorations (jawas, dancers, etc) require Cartel Market Certificates. You can buy the decos on the GTN, but you're going to pay a young fortune for them. The gear and mounts are character-bound.

 

I do think Cartel Market Certificates should find their way back into the economy somehow. Increasing the drop rate for the contrabaand slot machine is one way, but a better one might be to add them to the list of things that can drop from a chance cube.

 

^This right here. I'm mainly seeking Cartel Market Certificates for the decoration vendors that require them. I also would like to get a suit I already have the rep to get it from a CM vendor that I hadn't gotten around to (that's a different CM rep vendor, not the contraband one).

Edited May 5, 2017 by Willjb

[DownloadStarter]

I'd love to see the rest of the slot machines released now that they're dropping at acceptable rates. I only want the old reputation - and I'm not paying millions per pack to get it.

 

I would, however, drop $45 on each slot machine and buy them direct from the Cartel Market, like what's currently happening with that ridiculous-looking saber everyone had to have when Ep. VII dropped.

 

Alternatively, I would accept the full range of reputation-giving slot machines installed on Nar Shaddaa for open use by players. (This would also stop me complaining about the lack of nightlife event - Nar Shaddaa is less than Branson without it!)

[DownloadStarter]

Very few people use the Contraband Slot Machine for the reputation tokens. They want the Cartel Market Certificates because a lot of the most popular gear (Mask of Nihilus, Marka Ragnos robes, etc), mounts (command thrones, hoverchairs, etc), and stronghold decorations (jawas, dancers, etc) require Cartel Market Certificates. You can buy the decos on the GTN, but you're going to pay a young fortune for them. The gear and mounts are character-bound.

 

I do think Cartel Market Certificates should find their way back into the economy somehow. Increasing the drop rate for the contrabaand slot machine is one way, but a better one might be to add them to the list of things that can drop from a chance cube.

 

I disagree. As quite the Contraband slot jockey (and a fan of slot machines overall), I can attest that Bioware finally got the drop rate close to accurate. I mean, it's a slot machine. You're not supposed to get rich off of them. If you hit the jackpot, it's supposed to be a big deal.

 

Are you gonna get 10 in a week? Probably not unless you hammer the slot machine all week for hours on end. But that's how a slot machine operates. You're not supposed to get rich; just lucky.

 

It WOULD be nice if the game were to keep tabs on whether or not I already won the walker on a character though. Managed to get a full row of the things once. I don't know if they vendor now, but back then they did not. :-p

[ivanhedgehog]

I disagree. As quite the Contraband slot jockey (and a fan of slot machines overall), I can attest that Bioware finally got the drop rate close to accurate. I mean, it's a slot machine. You're not supposed to get rich off of them. If you hit the jackpot, it's supposed to be a big deal.

 

Are you gonna get 10 in a week? Probably not unless you hammer the slot machine all week for hours on end. But that's how a slot machine operates. You're not supposed to get rich; just lucky.

 

It WOULD be nice if the game were to keep tabs on whether or not I already won the walker on a character though. Managed to get a full row of the things once. I don't know if they vendor now, but back then they did not. :-p

 

Actually, Vegas slot machines on the strip have a 91.47% payoff rate, much much higher tha the CSM.

 

 

Las Vegas 5 Cent Slot Survey

Rank Casino Average

Return

1 Palms 93.42%

2 Gold Coast 92.84%

3 Sahara 92.81%

4 (tie) Bourbon Street 92.63%

4 (tie) Imperial Palace 92.63%

4 (tie) Slots a Fun 92.63%

7 Key Largo 92.60%

8 Western 92.57%

9 Ellis Island 92.56%

10 El Cortez 92.56%

11 Orleans 92.56%

12 Circus Circus 92.56%

13 Gold Spike 92.55%

14 Fitzgeralds 92.54%

15 Fiesta - Rancho 92.53%

16 Arizona Charlie's East 92.51%

17 Barbary Coast 92.50%

18 Terrible's 92.49%

19 Arizona Charlie's 92.49%

20 Hard Rock 92.47%

21 Town Hall 92.47%

22 Longhorn 92.47%

23 Riviera 92.23%

24 California 92.14%

25 Lady Luck 92.10%

26 Nevada Palace 92.06%

27 Plaza 91.94%

28 Luxor 91.92%

29 Paris 91.92%

30 San Remo 91.88%

31 Excalibur 91.84%

32 Palace Station 91.84%

33 Ballys 91.82%

34 Las Vegas Club 91.76%

35 Four Queens 91.75%

36 Texas Station 91.71%

37 Casino Royale 91.67%

38 Boulder Station 91.55%

39 Aladdin 91.5%

40 O'sheas 91.48%

41 Hilton 91.40%

42 Boardwalk 91.28%

43 New York New York 90.99%

44 Horseshoe 90.96%

45 Sam's Town 90.89%

46 Santa Fe Station 90.87%

47 Flamingo 90.86%

48 Golden Nugget 90.85%

49 Stratosphere 90.8%

50 Tropicana 90.71%

51 Golden Gate 90.64%

52 Silverton 90.57%

53 Main Street Station 90.56%

54 Westward Ho 90.40%

55 Fremont 90.37%

56 Castaways 90.36%

57 Monte Carlo 90.24%

58 Stardust 89.97%

59 Frontier 89.91%

60 MGM Grand 89.81%

61 Harrahs 89.32%

62 Treasure Island 89.32%

63 Mirage 89.3%

64 Caesars Palace 89.05%

65 Mandalay Bay 88.87%

66 Rio 88.72%

67 La Bayou 88.26%

68 Mermaids 88.26%

69 Bellagio 87.42%

70 Venetian 86.66%

71 Airport 85.02%

Excluded Casinos

 

The Suncoast and Rampart Casino in Summerlin do not allow playing slots and taking notes at the same time. I can not include any casino that prohibits the method in which I gather data.

Location Averages

 

The next table shows the average return by location.

Returns by Region

Location Average

Return

Off strip 92.07%

Downtown 91.66%

Strip 91.47%

Total 91.74%

[DownloadStarter]

Actually, Vegas slot machines on the strip have a 91.47% payoff rate, much much higher tha the CSM.

 

 

Las Vegas 5 Cent Slot Survey

Rank Casino Average

Return

1 Palms 93.42%

2 Gold Coast 92.84%

3 Sahara 92.81%

4 (tie) Bourbon Street 92.63%

4 (tie) Imperial Palace 92.63%

4 (tie) Slots a Fun 92.63%

7 Key Largo 92.60%

8 Western 92.57%

9 Ellis Island 92.56%

10 El Cortez 92.56%

11 Orleans 92.56%

12 Circus Circus 92.56%

13 Gold Spike 92.55%

14 Fitzgeralds 92.54%

15 Fiesta - Rancho 92.53%

16 Arizona Charlie's East 92.51%

17 Barbary Coast 92.50%

18 Terrible's 92.49%

19 Arizona Charlie's 92.49%

20 Hard Rock 92.47%

21 Town Hall 92.47%

22 Longhorn 92.47%

23 Riviera 92.23%

24 California 92.14%

25 Lady Luck 92.10%

26 Nevada Palace 92.06%

27 Plaza 91.94%

28 Luxor 91.92%

29 Paris 91.92%

30 San Remo 91.88%

31 Excalibur 91.84%

32 Palace Station 91.84%

33 Ballys 91.82%

34 Las Vegas Club 91.76%

35 Four Queens 91.75%

36 Texas Station 91.71%

37 Casino Royale 91.67%

38 Boulder Station 91.55%

39 Aladdin 91.5%

40 O'sheas 91.48%

41 Hilton 91.40%

42 Boardwalk 91.28%

43 New York New York 90.99%

44 Horseshoe 90.96%

45 Sam's Town 90.89%

46 Santa Fe Station 90.87%

47 Flamingo 90.86%

48 Golden Nugget 90.85%

49 Stratosphere 90.8%

50 Tropicana 90.71%

51 Golden Gate 90.64%

52 Silverton 90.57%

53 Main Street Station 90.56%

54 Westward Ho 90.40%

55 Fremont 90.37%

56 Castaways 90.36%

57 Monte Carlo 90.24%

58 Stardust 89.97%

59 Frontier 89.91%

60 MGM Grand 89.81%

61 Harrahs 89.32%

62 Treasure Island 89.32%

63 Mirage 89.3%

64 Caesars Palace 89.05%

65 Mandalay Bay 88.87%

66 Rio 88.72%

67 La Bayou 88.26%

68 Mermaids 88.26%

69 Bellagio 87.42%

70 Venetian 86.66%

71 Airport 85.02%

Excluded Casinos

 

The Suncoast and Rampart Casino in Summerlin do not allow playing slots and taking notes at the same time. I can not include any casino that prohibits the method in which I gather data.

Location Averages

 

The next table shows the average return by location.

Returns by Region

Location Average

Return

Off strip 92.07%

Downtown 91.66%

Strip 91.47%

Total 91.74%

 

...and what's the payout compared to the amount spent? ;-) Also, look at your payout rate on the Contraband Slot Machine honestly. Are you forgetting to add in the wins where you get your coin back?

 

Son, I'm tellin' ya. I've hammered that slot machine more than anyone. DEFINITELY more than you have. It's on par and pays out very close to appropriately - so close, in fact, that I'd argue it'd be foolish to tweak it any further one way or the other.

 

I get that today's generation doesn't want to wait. Believe me, I get that. But I would suggest that this generation instead just play some cards.

[ivanhedgehog]

...and what's the payout compared to the amount spent? ;-) Also, look at your payout rate on the Contraband Slot Machine honestly. Are you forgetting to add in the wins where you get your coin back?

 

Son, I'm tellin' ya. I've hammered that slot machine more than anyone. DEFINITELY more than you have. It's on par and pays out very close to appropriately - so close, in fact, that I'd argue it'd be foolish to tweak it any further one way or the other.

 

I get that today's generation doesn't want to wait. Believe me, I get that. But I would suggest that this generation instead just play some cards.

 

Considering that I was born in 1965 I am not of "this generation" son. You have no idea as to what you are talking about. people already got the odds figured out, and you are working strictly from anecdotal information. The devs most likely will ignore anything and everything about the CSM. Its what they do.

[BlackSilverRoar]

Considering that I was born in 1965 I am not of "this generation" son. You have no idea as to what you are talking about. people already got the odds figured out, and you are working strictly from anecdotal information. The devs most likely will ignore anything and everything about the CSM. Its what they do.

 

^Lol, you tell him, Ivan! Ikr; the worst kind of ignorant person is the pseudo self-confident one.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Willjb