XiamaraSimi Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 That more or less sums it all up... They said it was working, but they were looking at the jawa junk rates... Fair enough, a minor nerf would have been just fine. Heck, they could have cut the drops rates of everything in half, and that would have been fine. Nope, they nuked it from orbit into uselessness... Exactly, but as is always the case with bioware, there is no middle ground, if they nerf something, they go full scorched earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend-Referral Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) I'm still surprised a year later that this got the Queen of the Biodrone apologists to quit the game. Good riddance to her though. She was more toxic here than any critic of the game. Edited February 7, 2016 by ColorfulCaiques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Poster here is correct. Eric M. stated it was "Working as intended". He seemed to of omitted the rest of the phrase, it should of stated, "Working as intended for a week". It was an intentional bait and switch and an underhanded ploy to take our actual real dollars then hit the nerf bat. Horrible! O'RLY? Hey folks, We know that there have been many questions about the Contraband Slot Machine and its intent. Here are a few notes on it: The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged. It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine. If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS. We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content! With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun! Is there another post somewhere because nowhere does that say "working as intended"? It say's it's not bugged and not an exploit however the drop rates on jawa junk are going to be reviewed and changed accordingly. Of course it didn't mention certificates so I guess people could be annoyed at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I'll try to sum it up as short as I can. There is actual documentation somewhere out there that confirms this but I honestly don't want to take the time to find it again because I thought I was done with this. When the slot machine first came out, people commented on how wonderful and generous it was giving out prizes. Most everyone was happy except for a small group of people complaining that it was giving out too much. This group was believed to be the gold farmers that you see advertising constantly on the fleet selling credits for actual dollars. Something that is against Biowares policy but rarely do anything about it. This is also the same group of people that corner the market on mats and charge enormous amount of prices on the GTN for them. The generosity of the slot machine allowed people to get those mats via the Jawa vendors instead, thus cutting into gold farmers profits. Regardless. Bioware responded with a letter to the entire community saying the slot machine was working as intended and for everyone to enjoy it. Alrighty then, with that confirmation, more and more people paid actual dollars to purchase the packs in hopes they too would receive a slot machine. Including people that normally would never spend actual dollars on packs. After a few more complaints were posted that it was going to hurt the economy; which in the end never did, Bioware caved to this small group and nerfed the hell out of the slot machine to complete worthlessness. Basically, switch and bait. 'Here is a slot machine, that we've confirmed, gives out great stuff, all you have to do is pay actual dollars and you too could get one.' Now that you got one... 'Due to a few complaints, were going to nerf the hell out of it to give out diddly squat, even though we've received a ton of money from you all, .' No refunds. No readjusting. End subject as far as they are concerned. If in the beginning, it gave out diddly squat, there wouldn't have been such a clamoring of people investing actual dollars in order to obtain one. It's one thing if the slot machine was given out freely like other items they have given away, it's another thing to take actual dollars for something and then change it after you purchased it. Again where does it say working as intended? Per what i quoted it clearly said they were going to review drop rates. There must be a post I'm missing somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 That more or less sums it all up... They said it was working, but they were looking at the jawa junk rates... Fair enough, a minor nerf would have been just fine. Heck, they could have cut the drops rates of everything in half, and that would have been fine. Nope, they nuked it from orbit into uselessness... Uselessness isn't correct either ... compared to the majority of decorations it has far more use since it's actually usable. Whether or not you WANT to use it becomes irrelevant in terms of it being deemed completely useless. I personally still think it's one of the best deco's out there because it allows you to max a reputation easily ... the ONLY way in game short of buying packs or doing utterly, imo, mundane repetitive activities. Also it is now the only source of cartel certs left ... well once the last of the old packs dry up on the GTN. Wonder how poor that drop rate is going to look as the relative value of a cert increases per what you can buy/sell with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I'm still surprised a year later that this got the Queen of the Biodrone apologists to quit the game. Good riddance to her though. She was more toxic here than any critic of the game. It actually drove a few ... shall we say interesting players away or at least away from paying yet their presence is still clearly seen on reddit ... probably why I tend to avoid reddit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Again where does it say working as intended? Per what i quoted it clearly said they were going to review drop rates. There must be a post I'm missing somewhere... There was a post immediately after the release due to people being afraid it was an exploit and if they used it, they would be in trouble/banned/whatever. In the post, Eric stated that it was working as intended but they were now going to look into the drop amounts. I am thinking that they did that to apease the whiners on the forums rnting about it ruining the economy. What happened to the post? Look around and if you cannot find it, they have removed it/the whole link or altered it because I read it. That is where the saying "Working as intended" came from that is now used on the many er...changes, bugs, etc in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Uselessness isn't correct either ... compared to the majority of decorations it has far more use since it's actually usable. It is correct... enough... Also it is now the only source of cartel certs left ... well once the last of the old packs dry up on the GTN. Not really, you have to run more clicks on it than is remotely reasonable to get a single cert. Only those breaking ToS running macros on it are ever going to get, say, the 10 cartel certs required for the mask, or similar items. Wonder how poor that drop rate is going to look as the relative value of a cert increases per what you can buy/sell with them. It isn't a value issue, it is a time issue. You could quite simply click on it for three hours non-stop and get no certs. That is useless by any reasonable definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 There was a post immediately after the release due to people being afraid it was an exploit and if they used it, they would be in trouble/banned/whatever. In the post, Eric stated that it was working as intended but they were now going to look into the drop amounts. I am thinking that they did that to apease the whiners on the forums rnting about it ruining the economy. What happened to the post? Look around and if you cannot find it, they have removed it/the whole link or altered it because I read it. That is where the saying "Working as intended" came from that is now used on the many er...changes, bugs, etc in game. Seriously stop making stuff up and read that first post of this thread. Firstly it does NOT say working as intended, you can paraphrase it all you like but it does not say that and you are wrong for insinuating that it does. It DOES says it's not a bug or an exploit and it DOES say they would review the jawa junk's drop rate and adjust to accordingly which they did. I was part of this debate before this thread came along and to my knowledge this post you are referring to never existed. More likely you and others are selectively trying to adjust what the first post of this thread does actually say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 O'RLY? Is there another post somewhere because nowhere does that say "working as intended"? It say's it's not bugged and not an exploit however the drop rates on jawa junk are going to be reviewed and changed accordingly. Of course it didn't mention certificates so I guess people could be annoyed at that. Jawa Junk is just the purples... It isn't the greens or blues, it isn't the rep, it isn't the certs... One out of many items, and they nerfed to oblivion everything... That isn't "an adjustment", it is a nuke. Pretending it is anything else is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It actually drove a few ... shall we say interesting players away or at least away from paying yet their presence is still clearly seen on reddit ... probably why I tend to avoid reddit. Prior to the CSM, I purchased thousands of dollars worth of CC. Since then, nothing, not one red cent. I pay my sub and that's it. So from at least this customer, it has cost Bioware/EA at least a thousand dollars in the past year of CC sales they never received due to my refusing to spend another penny on the CM. Why do you think they have been dinking around with the CM since 4.0? Sales clearly haven't been what they once were. Of course there is no way to know if the CSM is why, it probably isn't the only reason, there are many. But it could well be one reason. CM sales were quite good, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, in 2013-4 timeframe, but they have been on a tear making changes the past 4 months. Just from looking at the GTN, it appears far fewer people are buying CM items, they used to be more plentiful on the GTN, now they are harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It DOES says it's not a bug or an exploit and it DOES say they would review the jawa junk's drop rate and adjust to accordingly which they did. Keep in mind that what the post says doesn't really matter to anyone who bought hypercrates before the post happened. While it is true that the Terms of Service allow Bioware to change anything they want to, there is a basic customer service rule in life that says "don't overly screw with the customer for no good reason". Or something like that. I'm one of the people who bought it before the post, I purchased several hypercrates and ended up with several of the CSM. My purchase decision was made based on how it worked, because my guild at the time quickly put 4 of them into our flagship and we started using them. I quickly decided I wanted one for my own stronghold. I frankly don't give a damm what Eric's post said, a lot of hypercrates were sold very quickly those first few days based on how it did perform, then it was changed into something else completely. (a rep vendor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend-Referral Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) It actually drove a few ... shall we say interesting players away or at least away from paying yet their presence is still clearly seen on reddit ... probably why I tend to avoid reddit. Aye. Hopefully they permanently stay there. I think that Reddit is a hive of scum and villainy which is why I never go there myself either. Edited February 7, 2016 by ColorfulCaiques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) I frankly don't give a damm what Eric's post said, a lot of hypercrates were sold very quickly those first few days based on how it did perform, then it was changed into something else completely. (a rep vendor) When people started posting details of the drop rates on Reddit, it was apparent to most sensible people that there was a mistake made by whoever coded the CSM. This is what drove the concerns of "Hey, will we get in trouble for using the slot machine?" Anyone that didn't expect a nerf had their head in the ground. The problem came when the nerf was overdone. Not that it happened at all. Edited February 7, 2016 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Jawa Junk is just the purples... It isn't the greens or blues, it isn't the rep, it isn't the certs... One out of many items, and they nerfed to oblivion everything... That isn't "an adjustment", it is a nuke. Pretending it is anything else is just silly. Kind of don't care ... just pointing out ( per what you quoted ) that it was never said to be working as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Seriously stop making stuff up and read that first post of this thread. Firstly it does NOT say working as intended, you can paraphrase it all you like but it does not say that and you are wrong for insinuating that it does. It DOES says it's not a bug or an exploit and it DOES say they would review the jawa junk's drop rate and adjust to accordingly which they did. I was part of this debate before this thread came along and to my knowledge this post you are referring to never existed. More likely you and others are selectively trying to adjust what the first post of this thread does actually say. I selectively said nothing. I saw the post, That phrase was in the post. The one you are linking over and over is NOT the original response from BW/EA. Anyway, not going to argue, believe as you will fanboi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 When people started posting details of the drop rates on Reddit, it was apparent to most sensible people that there was a mistake made by whoever coded the CSM. This is what drove the concerns of "Hey, will we get in trouble for using the slot machine?" Anyone that didn't expect a nerf had their head in the ground. The problem came when the nerf was overdone. Not that it happened at all. ^ Agreed, no one with any sense doubted that it would get nerfed... I wouldn't have minded a 50% across the board cut. A 98% cut is just silly, it changes the nature of the item completely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) I selectively said nothing. I saw the post, That phrase was in the post. The one you are linking over and over is NOT the original response from BW/EA. Anyway, not going to argue, believe as you will fanboi. The original response is on page one of this very thread. Edited February 8, 2016 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Kind of don't care ... just pointing out ( per what you quoted ) that it was never said to be working as intended. He didn't say it wasn't working as intended, either... Most reasonable people seem to read Eric's post and see something other than what you see, but it is really beside the point. Bioware can change it however they like, it is their game. I on the other hand don't have to give them another dime of cash for CCs. Bioware clearly pissed off a lot of people, look how long these threads have gone (and there were a ton of them back then). That is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 He didn't say it wasn't working as intended, either... Most reasonable people seem to read Eric's post and see something other than what you see, but it is really beside the point. Bioware can change it however they like, it is their game. I on the other hand don't have to give them another dime of cash for CCs. Bioware clearly pissed off a lot of people, look how long these threads have gone (and there were a ton of them back then). That is real. No, no it wasn't OR it has since be altered. It was similar but much shorter. Anyway, done here have fun carrying on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Wow - this thread is still going on? Kinda makes me want to go dig up the CE vendor one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Prior to the CSM, I purchased thousands of dollars worth of CC. Since then, nothing, not one red cent. I pay my sub and that's it. So from at least this customer, it has cost Bioware/EA at least a thousand dollars in the past year of CC sales they never received due to my refusing to spend another penny on the CM. Why do you think they have been dinking around with the CM since 4.0? Sales clearly haven't been what they once were. Of course there is no way to know if the CSM is why, it probably isn't the only reason, there are many. But it could well be one reason. CM sales were quite good, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, in 2013-4 timeframe, but they have been on a tear making changes the past 4 months. Just from looking at the GTN, it appears far fewer people are buying CM items, they used to be more plentiful on the GTN, now they are harder to find. Likewise had they left it as it was it may have cost them even more still ... I doubt anyone can put up a valid argument against the original iterations ability to really devalue the economy - especially for crafting. As to CM sales I would say also they are down but that's no wonder with the "only 1 pack at a time" concept and how generally crap the packs were. Also we have no idea how much currency was injected into the game from the recent exploit that hasn't been removed ( I would guess billions ) which means less people needing to buy packs to sell to make credits I would think. However the key is that there were far more bad decisions than just this that drove people away ... raravgergate, ziost exploit, temple chair ... if you go over torstatus and look at the time from ziost to kotfe announcement the servers were the most dead they've been in a long time. Not that that's definitive evidence of anything but worth looking at. Anyway key is I'm not saying the communication on this issue wasn't atrocious after the nerf, it was. I'm not saying the nerf wasn't over the top - it was. I'm saying it was never stated it was working as intended as this "bait and switch" stance many people put out is a bit of a stretch especially when someone people start bringing "law" into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Keep in mind that what the post says doesn't really matter to anyone who bought hypercrates before the post happened. While it is true that the Terms of Service allow Bioware to change anything they want to, there is a basic customer service rule in life that says "don't overly screw with the customer for no good reason". Or something like that. I'm one of the people who bought it before the post, I purchased several hypercrates and ended up with several of the CSM. My purchase decision was made based on how it worked, because my guild at the time quickly put 4 of them into our flagship and we started using them. I quickly decided I wanted one for my own stronghold. I frankly don't give a damm what Eric's post said, a lot of hypercrates were sold very quickly those first few days based on how it did perform, then it was changed into something else completely. (a rep vendor) No offense but you'd have to be completely naïve to think that machine was going to stay as it was with those drop rates ... they were crazily over the top, as much as it was over the top nerfed. Also anyone who got their hands on this prior to the first post of this thread ( let alone the nerf itself ) would have come out immensely on top unless they bought them and decided to just not use them for a couple of weeks I believe it was from launch to nerf ( if not longer ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I selectively said nothing. I saw the post, That phrase was in the post. The one you are linking over and over is NOT the original response from BW/EA. Anyway, not going to argue, believe as you will fanboi. Nonsense, proof or it never happened - there isn't some magic conspiracy to hide a post from you. You can go back over Eric's post history and it's all there on everything he's posted ( probably up to a page limit which we've not hit in regards to this issue ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 He didn't say it wasn't working as intended, either... He said exactly what he said ... I've been over that a few times as have a couple of other posters in this reiteration. It would be looked at, it was and it was nerfed. Most reasonable people seem to read Eric's post and see something other than what you see, but it is really beside the point. What's that you see then? What is it you think I'm saying because I quoted it verbatim and said exactly what it says? Bioware can change it however they like, it is their game. I on the other hand don't have to give them another dime of cash for CCs. Nope, you don't. Bioware clearly pissed off a lot of people, look how long these threads have gone (and there were a ton of them back then). That is real. Interestingly it was quite a heated discussion thread so there were many people in favour of a nerf as there were opposed to one. I however believe most agree that a nerf was required, it shouldn't have been this harsh and communication should have been much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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