The Contraband Slot Machine

[Max_Killjoy]

Neener neener neener, I can't hear you.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Not sure how things are over in the US but a manager title usually carries a fair amount of responsibility with it and thus from the situation created within the community it is on him to do his best to remedy it. Thus talk to whoever is needed to, post that the current changes are intended and staying as is and apologise for his previous post.

 

I find it HIGHLY unlikely someone is telling him don't do the above and just do nothing at all because that is probably the worst possible action to take ( as illustrated by this thread and some actions players are taking ).

 

I'm just going to reply to this real quick--in the US the title "manager" implies little, if anything. All that can realistically be inferred from the title "community manager," based upon US employment law, is that Eric has some scintilla of authority over the community and/or other members of the community team (such as forum moderators). Other than that, the word "manager" has very little meaning in US employment law, other than as a way for employers to get around paying overtime by calling everyone above a janitor, who makes at least approximately $26000/year, a "manager."

 

US employers would even call janitors managers if they could get away with it, but there is a little tidbit of employment law here that says that anyone classed as a manager must be paid a certain amount (I think it's about $26K/year, so not very much) or that employee cannot be classified a manager for purposes of exempting them from certain employment law protections.

 

TL;DR: The word "manager" within Musco's "community manager" title doesn't necessarily mean much because in America, almost everyone can be called a manager!

Edited February 26, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[eartharioch]

How was his post concise to the result we got? We had Green, Blue and Purple Jawa scraps nerfed as well as cartel certificates. If his posting were concise to the result we got then only the purple would have been nerfed.

 

Then "concise" is probably not the word you mean to be using. I think you mean "precise", or "complete". Again, we don't know whether or not he told us everything he knew or not, so we can't tell whether or not it was *his* fault that the nerf covered more than what he said.

 

That is my point on why people shouldn't be blaming *Eric* personally instead of BW, the company. I'm not saying people shouldn't be upset with BW if they mistook Eric's post to mean something that it obviously didn't, just that it doesn't make sense to focus the blame on Eric himself. It's BW's job to decide if Eric (or anybody) actually did something wrong, and if so, what to do about it. It's also possible that nobody made an actual error, and that there simply wasn't any procedure in place to handle whatever happened (or that the procedure itself was inadequate).

 

What I AM saying is people have a valid argument and reason to be aggrieved if they went and started purchasing packs solely based on his post in aim of getting a slot machine that may only have purple JJ nerfed.

 

Nothing in the way that Eric's statements were worded remotely resembles any sort of advertising pitch or attempt to induce people to invest money (real for CC or credits) and get one. First of all, there was no real description of the item (like there probably would have been with a direct CC purchase option), it was just a new decoration that was supposed to function like a slot machine (which it did and still does). BW did not post any official odds (like real casinos have to), and IIRC removed posts containing datamined results -- player experiences (data) were allowed to remain. Even though they didn't guarantee *any* odds, Eric said they would look at drop rate of the Jawa Junk, at the time the largest source of complaints.

 

The important thing to note is that when the machine was released, Ravagergate was in full swing, and people in those threads were calling the machine out as a possible exploit. Eric's initial post wasn't an attempt to get people to buy packs (or the machine directly), it was to say that it's ok to use it "as is", but that it "might" change. IMO, that was where the mistake was made -- the odds were obviously wrong by a couple of orders of magnitude, and the damage done to the economy under those odds was more than the damage to the 192 market caused by Ravagergate.

 

IMO, BW didn't want to deal with a second major exploit caused by gross incompetence on their part while still resolving the first, so they had Eric say that it was per se not an exploit to exploit the machine. His first post might as well have just said, "Smoke'em if you got'em". I was surprised, and I assume BW was too, by how many people started celebrating the machine as the "new crafting" after Eric's original post. People believed that because they wanted to believe that, and that's what they wanted the game to be. Heat-wave is *even now* saying she would be happy to trade the *100M+ credits she made in < 7 days from the machine for which she wants a refund* to get the machine back so that they can break the choke-hold the evil Mat Barrons[sic] have on the economy. That is not somebody I'm going to believe "reasonably interpreted" Eric's posts to mean that *only Jawa Junk would be touched*.

 

He posts on the forums with a title of community manager, players read this and rightfully assume what they read him posting is accurate and to be trusted. As I said, we do not know if he got it wrong or whoever passed him the information got it wrong but someone got it wrong and at the end of the day it's his name on the post.

 

Not sure how things are over in the US but a manager title usually carries a fair amount of responsibility with it and thus from the situation created within the community it is on him to do his best to remedy it. Thus talk to whoever is needed to, post that the current changes are intended and staying as is and apologise for his previous post.

 

He doesn't? So he isn't really a manager per se but more so just a representative? I would like something substantial to back this point of view up because from how I read a lot of his previous posts ( on other issues ) he has gone hunting the information himself and then reported it back to us the best he can within the limits of "privacy" towards the company allow.

 

Are you seriously trying to imply he's been told to not say anything what so ever on this issue since the nerf? I think they assumed the comments at the cantina tour were enough.

 

Here in America, there are no set standards for what "manager" means, and (from what I've seen over the years), Community Manager for swtor pretty much means the "highest level person from whom we'll hear on a regular basis". I'm not going to publicly speculate about the details other than to say what I said earlier -- if it was Eric's unilateral decision to ignore this, I think somebody higher up would have overruled him on it way before now.

 

So yes, I believe somebody (other than Eric) made a decision that BW would not say anything more on the issue. They obviously couldn't ignore it at the Cantina, so they said it was closed. And they have pretty much canceled anything with an open question format since then.

 

FYI, as annoying as the whole thing is, I don't blame BW for burying the issue. They were going to lose customers over this no matter what. And as far as i'm concerned, the community is better off without the people we did (and may still) lose. Just as I'm sure that if BW hadn't nerfed the machine and I (and people like me) had left, the people who wouldn't have left would say the same about us.

Edited February 26, 2015 by eartharioch

[eartharioch]

Oh. My. God.

 

I wish I could say that I'm shocked, but I'm not.

 

THE TAXES ARE KNOWN AT THE TIME YOU PURCHASED THE TICKET, THE RULES WERE NOT CHANGED AFTER YOU WON.

 

Read that, read it again, perhaps have someone read it to you. It isn't hard, but I guess maybe it is, since I continue to see the same ignorant posts over and over on the subject.

 

Speaking of ignorant...

 

1) Tax laws change all the time. Lotteries run all the time. Most people who buy lottery tickets don't familiarize themselves with laws beforehand, and even though many people purchase tickets the day of the drawing, they likely didn't wait until that time to make sure no new legislation had been announced or passed, they probably waited to see how big the jackpot was.

 

2) Some lotteries pay out in a lump sum, other in annuities over many years. Even if tax laws rarely change between the time of purchasing a ticket and the drawing, they definitely change over the course of years.

 

3) To the extent that that "the rules" mean "the odds" to you, the rules were unknown. BW has never held itself accountable for datamined information. BW did not publish a list of odds, BW indicated that ones that were complained about were definitely being looked at.

 

4) To the extent that "the rules" means "the TOS", you have already agreed that BW can change whatever they want whenever they want and that you actually own/buy nothing, it's all rented on their terms. To my knowledge, they simply exercised their powers under the current rules, and didn't change anything after the fact.

 

YOU WERE NEVER GUARANTEED A SPECIFIC DROP TABLE. THEY DID NOT PROMISE "BUY THIS MACHINE AND GET FREE MATS FOR LIFE"

 

That's what you wanted, and what you still want, I'm so sorry 100+M doesn't give you enough pocket change to spare anything for your guildies.

[Heat-Wave]

1) Tax laws change all the time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

 

Read and learn something...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Then "concise" is probably not the word you mean to be using. I think you mean "precise", or "complete". Again, we don't know whether or not he told us everything he knew or not, so we can't tell whether or not it was *his* fault that the nerf covered more than what he said.

 

That is my point on why people shouldn't be blaming *Eric* personally instead of BW, the company. I'm not saying people shouldn't be upset with BW if they mistook Eric's post to mean something that it obviously didn't, just that it doesn't make sense to focus the blame on Eric himself. It's BW's job to decide if Eric (or anybody) actually did something wrong, and if so, what to do about it. It's also possible that nobody made an actual error, and that there simply wasn't any procedure in place to handle whatever happened (or that the procedure itself was inadequate).

 

Hmm *shrug* concise seemed to and still seems to fit.

Basically he was attempting to be concise ( short n sweet ) but failed to do so because his information that he provided us was clearly lacking based on the result we got.

 

I feel with the rest we are going in circles. Basically if it is Eric's fault then it is Bioware's fault. I am purely stating that has the community rep/manager whatever you want to call him he has to where the bulk of the blame from us because he was the one who fronted the information. He has had every opportunity to try remedy that situation with apologies, stating why extra nerfs were made etc. etc. but has chosen not to ( in my opinion, I don't feel he has been forced not to personally based on prior behaviour but again ... all opinion as is both our points of view here ).

 

Nothing in the way that Eric's statements were worded remotely resembles any sort of advertising pitch or attempt to induce people to invest money (real for CC or credits) and get one.

 

I never said nor implied it did.

 

First of all, there was no real description of the item (like there probably would have been with a direct CC purchase option), it was just a new decoration that was supposed to function like a slot machine (which it did and still does). BW did not post any official odds (like real casinos have to), and IIRC removed posts containing datamined results -- player experiences (data) were allowed to remain.

 

Very true I guess I should have elaborated more on my statement in that people basing their purchase decision on the results they saw/heard others getting ( as you say there was no advertising stating rates or even the drops for this machine ) could feel aggrieved in that any forth coming nerf was possibly only going to be directed at the purple jawa junk.

 

Had they purchased the item and the drop rate not matched what they heard word of mouth then they would not have had a leg to stand on but they purchased it and found it did have these certain drop rates and could live with a nerf to the purple jawa junk as it would still be worth having just for the blue/green and certs. Heck even I would buy one for those 3 things alone if Eric's post was what actually happened.

 

Even though they didn't guarantee *any* odds, Eric said they would look at drop rate of the Jawa Junk, at the time the largest source of complaints.

 

Yes to which I think no one can complain about bait and switch or being ripped off over the Jawa Junk nerf ( even though many have tried for some silly reason ) - it's the nerf to everything else that made it not only worthless but basically a HUGE loss manufacturing machine that has me noting why people are pissed having bought the machine post Eric's post.

 

The important thing to note is that when the machine was released, Ravagergate was in full swing, and people in those threads were calling the machine out as a possible exploit. Eric's initial post wasn't an attempt to get people to buy packs (or the machine directly), it was to say that it's ok to use it "as is", but that it "might" change. IMO, that was where the mistake was made -- the odds were obviously wrong by a couple of orders of magnitude, and the damage done to the economy under those odds was more than the damage to the 192 market caused by Ravagergate.

 

Yes the Ravagergate I was highly involved in against the exploiters etc. hence the wtich hunters calls by certain forum trolls. It was mostly same said forum trolls ( and a few others ) who tried to pitch the machine as a possible exploit to try justify their rather absurd justification of not punishing the exploiters. That however is another topic.

 

I personally would have thought after the Ravagers fiasco BW/Eric would have been VERY careful on anything they said ( since obviously the release of content/bugs etc. are out of Eric's control but staff posts to forums aren't ) regarding the slot machine to be completely accurate.

 

I agree he wasn't advertising it but he was trying to offer assurance that everything was fine and it was all good to buy it not realizing he was basically telling people it wouldn't really change except they were looking at purple jawa junk. You and I may not take the literally and read between the lines but many do and did not and that's fair enough I feel.

 

I completely agree it needed a nerf also, I've always defended that point of view but I also feel people do have a right to peeved over Eric's post if they weighed up losing good drops of purple JJ and keeping certs and even blue/green. I'm sure even then no one thought it would get nerfed in to a more or less useless money trap.

 

You must surely agree this nerf is one of the most stupidest in the history of this game? To go from something highly profitable to almost completely useless ( beyond getting rep which you still need certs for ). The whole process was so poorly thought out it begs belief yet it actually happened.

 

We can talk all day on better fixes and we'd probably agree on many idea's but that in regard to what is left is more or less moot now.

 

When you get down to it all the only reason Eric's poor communication on the issue is such a big deal is how utterly hard the thing got nerfed.

Now that has happened we really can point the finger at Eric ( he sits in the big chair for community matters, he has to wear the flack and deal with us accordingly but 200 pages he has chosen not to do so, we can guess all day why he isn't but we won't ever really know if it's his call or not ) and his post.

 

Had they not nerfed it so hard or been willing to revisit it for a better fix then none of this anger would be warranted ( and most of it isn't basedo nthe view point many are coming from - only a portion of it I agree with ) but based on where we are at now all I'm saying it I think it's understandable and even agreeable why people are pissed.

 

All you and I are more or less debating is if Eric is at fault or not. Both are based on opinion and we can't back it up with any fact really as we don't know what happened behind the scenes so we could go on like this forever but I'm happy to agree to disagree on the Eric point at least.

[Djiini]

[quote=MeNaCe-NZ;8052590

We can talk all day on better fixes and we'd probably agree on many idea's

 

This statement ---> My sides are in ORBIT.

 

You guys have been talking for TWO MONTHS in an almost 200 page thread about this.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This statement ---> My sides are in ORBIT.

 

You guys have been talking for TWO MONTHS in an almost 200 page thread about this.

 

We specifically to one another on this topic have? News to me.

[Djiini]

We specifically to one another on this topic have? News to me.

 

Nah, I'm just saying, is all. People have been going at this for weeks.

[eartharioch]

Hmm *shrug* concise seemed to and still seems to fit.

Basically he was attempting to be concise ( short n sweet ) but failed to do so because his information that he provided us was clearly lacking based on the result we got.

"Concise" applies to writing style, you are conflating that with "complete" and "accurate". But I'm not trying to be a grammar nazi, I understand what you are saying. And again, it begs the question as to whether *Eric* or *Bioware* failed. Eric's success or failure to communicate BW's intent can only be judged by how much of that he knew (or should have known), and *we* don't know what that was, so we can't make an unqualified judgment. I.e., you can say that *if* he knew that cert drop rates were being affected (and not prohibited from mentioning it) and left out that information, he made a mistake.

 

I feel with the rest we are going in circles. Basically if it is Eric's fault then it is Bioware's fault. I am purely stating that has the community rep/manager whatever you want to call him he has to where the bulk of the blame from us because he was the one who fronted the information. He has had every opportunity to try remedy that situation with apologies, stating why extra nerfs were made etc. etc. but has chosen not to ( in my opinion, I don't feel he has been forced not to personally based on prior behaviour but again ... all opinion as is both our points of view here ).

Yes, if it is Eric's fault, it is Bioware's fault. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that we don't know that it was Eric's fault. I am saying that it is Bioware's fault. Eric may or may not have been part of the problem -- we simply don't know.

 

Very true I guess I should have elaborated more on my statement in that people basing their purchase decision on the results they saw/heard others getting ( as you say there was no advertising stating rates or even the drops for this machine ) could feel aggrieved in that any forth coming nerf was possibly only going to be directed at the purple jawa junk.

People can feel aggrieved for whatever reasons they want. That doesn't mean that those reasons will be good.

 

Yes to which I think no one can complain about bait and switch or being ripped off over the Jawa Junk nerf ( even though many have tried for some silly reason ) - it's the nerf to everything else that made it not only worthless but basically a HUGE loss manufacturing machine that has me noting why people are pissed having bought the machine post Eric's post.

It wasn't a bait and switch for any part of it. Bait and switch is an advertising tactic, and as we discussed, nothing in Eric's posts looks like an inducement to go out and obtain the item. It was a statement that you wouldn't get into trouble for using it, and to my knowledge, nobody did.

 

I completely agree it needed a nerf also, I've always defended that point of view but I also feel people do have a right to peeved over Eric's post if they weighed up losing good drops of purple JJ and keeping certs and even blue/green. I'm sure even then no one thought it would get nerfed in to a more or less useless money trap.

 

"Peeved" is one thing, but so far I haven't heard anybody objecting to the nerf expressing such mild disapproval. It's a *slot machine*, there's a picture of one next to the definition of "money trap" posted in every casino I've ever visited (usually it's in the form of "X % returns", X < 100%).

 

You must surely agree this nerf is one of the most stupidest in the history of this game? To go from something highly profitable to almost completely useless ( beyond getting rep which you still need certs for ). The whole process was so poorly thought out it begs belief yet it actually happened.

No, I don't agree, my main is an operative. I don't even think it was the harshest nerf. I wholly agree that the entire process (starting with the development of the machine and ending with it in its current state) was so poorly done as to beg belief, though. I'm not sure I've ever seen incompetence at this level anywhere in my life.

 

Now that has happened we really can point the finger at Eric ( he sits in the big chair for community matters, he has to wear the flack and deal with us accordingly but 200 pages he has chosen not to do so, we can guess all day why he isn't but we won't ever really know if it's his call or not ) and his post.

No, we can't. You've admitted you don't know what went on behind the scenes, and that knowledge is necessary to assign blame. All we know is what he posted. Yes, it's his job to take the abuse for it, but it doesn't make being abusive right. It's the Secret Service's job to take a bullet for the President, that doesn't mean it's ok to shoot them.

 

All you and I are more or less debating is if Eric is at fault or not. Both are based on opinion and we can't back it up with any fact really as we don't know what happened behind the scenes so we could go on like this forever but I'm happy to agree to disagree on the Eric point at least.

I'm not debating whether or not (or to what degree) Eric is at fault, I'm arguing that we don't have the information required to make that determination, and that (as such) it is inappropriate for people to be blaming him. Most of the fault, IMO, is on the part of the devs who made the machine (before the nerf) and the players who knew how game breaking the machine was and wanted it *for the express purpose of breaking a part of the game they didn't like*. IMO, the only reason everybody is fixated upon pouring over Eric's posts like they are twelve angry men is because that bump in the road is the only thing big enough to turn into a molehill big enough for them to turn into a mountain large enough to make BW have to give them *something* to ease their broken heart.

[eartharioch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

 

Read and learn something...

 

Nothing I have said should have called into question my familiarity with the concept; your post, however, removes any question as to your lack thereof.

[EnkiduNineEight]

The issue still bothers me. I was calling for a nerf prior tot he nerf and then annoyed by the severity of the nerf. The reaction was too far in the extreme. They made some very simple math mistakes and aren't owning up to them. (For example, I was the one suggesting a vehicle reward and I specifically laid out a chance for the reward, but they took my decimal chance and turned it into a percentage chance and completely borked the math but they used my suggestion/number exactly.

 

.001 =/= .001%

 

There have been suggestions and numerous ideas on ways to scale back the rate and make it 'cost' enough so that there are preferable economic methods to obtain mats but that it was still a viable option. There would be a decided benefit to the players if mats were more available and the mats farmers (often an overlapping group with gold sellers) ha d their markets diminished.

 

I've just not continued to harp on the subject because its being kept tot he fore already.

 

Still, I am very disappointed with the lack of communication on this issue from BW and I am also disappointed with the tenor of many of the people who are keeping the subject in the forefront because I believe they do the issue a disservice.

[Heat-Wave]

Nothing I have said should have called into question my familiarity with the concept; your post, however, removes any question as to your lack thereof.

 

Then you learned nothing... sad, but not surprising...

 

Many people like to live in their own ignorance, it makes them feel good about themselves, sitting there patting themselves on the back for how smart they are. Enjoy yourself.

[branmakmuffin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

 

Read and learn something...

In the United States, only laws that apply to crimes are prohibited under this doctrine (and not even all of those; some enhancements to punishments have been held to not violate this doctrine). As for how this doctrine applies in other jurisdictions, I have no idea.

[Nickious]

Then you learned nothing... sad, but not surprising...

 

Many people like to live in their own ignorance, it makes them feel good about themselves, sitting there patting themselves on the back for how smart they are. Enjoy yourself.

 

Resorting to questioning a person's intellectual capacity because someone disagrees with you is very childish and your entire comment came across as incredibly arrogant.

 

If you feel you can't convince someone to come over to that side you leave the conversation. Like an adult, you say respectfully disagree and excuse yourself, least you lower yourself to making comments about person you have no idea who they are, what their experiences are, their knowledge are etc.

[eartharioch]

In the United States, only laws that apply to crimes are prohibited under this doctrine (and not even all of those; some enhancements to punishments have been held to not violate this doctrine). As for how this doctrine applies in other jurisdictions, I have no idea.

 

From the article she linked to me and accused me of not reading or understanding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#Ex_post_facto_laws_by_country

 

And the specific section on the U.S. (which fully supports what you said):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States

 

It's almost like she thought she knew something, googled a link on it, and posted it, assuming it would say what she wanted it to say.

Edited February 26, 2015 by eartharioch

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Eric's success or failure to communicate BW's intent can only be judged by how much of that he knew (or should have known), and *we* don't know what that was, so we can't make an unqualified judgment. I.e., you can say that *if* he knew that cert drop rates were being affected (and not prohibited from mentioning it) and left out that information, he made a mistake.

 

Perhaps you aren't quite getting where I am coming from.

 

What he didn't or did know is moot to me. Fact is he is the one putting up the information and said information was misleading and there has been nothing posted as a follow up to correct this information, apologise or well anything at all really ( possibly patch notes, can't be bothered checking as those get put up by Tait anyway ).

 

If you look through the dev tracker at some of Eric's recent posts you can't tell me he at the VERY LEAST couldn't have posted a quick apology and confirmed that the current nerfs to the slot machine are intended and will be staying ( cantina comments don't cut the mustard for me, I didn't attend it and many won't read transcripts etc. and only be working off the first post of this thread ).

 

Who is right/wrong behind the scenes is their business. What I know he can do and has chosen not to is post any sort of follow up ( I refuse to believe he's been ordered not to ) at all. Perhaps there was thinking it would inflame the situation more or that it would die off so to bring it up again would make the issue last longer but that was clearly the wrong decision and of course to post anything now would certainly raise the issue again so it's definitely too late.

 

People can feel aggrieved for whatever reasons they want. That doesn't mean that those reasons will be good.

 

Good in whose eyes though? Yours? If you are the minority on if the reason is "good" or "bad" does that then make it good?

I've yet to see any solid points that say being pissed off over the nerf because the official Bioware post ( let's leave the name Eric out of it and treat as it is since you seem to think everything he posts must get signed off ) stated only purple JJ drop rates were being looked into is somehow not a good reason to be pissed off over the nerf when far more got nerfed. I think that's a very good reason to be pissed off. Is it reason for a refund? No, no one bought the slot machine directly ( if you did I would fully support the refund debate ).

 

"Peeved" is one thing, but so far I haven't heard anybody objecting to the nerf expressing such mild disapproval. It's a *slot machine*, there's a picture of one next to the definition of "money trap" posted in every casino I've ever visited (usually it's in the form of "X % returns", X < 100%).

 

Let's not confuse walking in to a casino and playing someone else's slot machine with obtaining one yourself in this game. Might as well compare apples to oranges as far as this debate goes, it holds no relevance.

 

The only complaints in that regard could be to someone buying tons of "chips" then having the prizes changed and your chips devalued and even in your casino example that fails to stand up because you can cash your chips back in for the same amount you paid for them, some thing you cannot do in this game.

 

No, we can't. You've admitted you don't know what went on behind the scenes, and that knowledge is necessary to assign blame. All we know is what he posted. Yes, it's his job to take the abuse for it, but it doesn't make being abusive right. It's the Secret Service's job to take a bullet for the President, that doesn't mean it's ok to shoot them.

 

No that knowledge is not necessary at all because you are shifting the goal posts. You seem to imply I'm trying to assign blame for the nerf to him when all I am doing is assigning the blame of the abysmal communication to him which, based on his role here, really does lie with him.

Like I said it is my opinion he chose not to post ANYTHING further on this as opposed to being ordered not to.

 

It's funny in this case how community and communication are rather similar words in their spelling.

[NordBlast]

Nah, I'm just saying, is all. People have been going at this for weeks.

 

Thank you for bringing this thread to the top.

Please do it consistently - I'm not subscribed anymore (somehow I'm still able to post though) and I won't be able to bump it to the top in near future.

[eartharioch]

Perhaps you aren't quite getting where I am coming from.

New Zealand, I'm guessing, and apparently you guys do things differently down there.

 

What he didn't or did know is moot to me.

Whether or not somebody knew something is of the utmost importance in determining whether or not they failed to convey something where I come from.

 

If you look through the dev tracker at some of Eric's recent posts you can't tell me he at the VERY LEAST couldn't have posted a quick apology and confirmed that the current nerfs to the slot machine are intended and will be staying ( cantina comments don't cut the mustard for me, I didn't attend it and many won't read transcripts etc. and only be working off the first post of this thread ).

I have never suggested that Eric hasn't posted anything for lack of time or anything other than a conscious decision. Based on his history of being willing to take the blame for "miscommunications" in the past, I'm unwilling to assume that the complete lack of communication is solely his decision.

 

Who is right/wrong behind the scenes is their business. What I know he can do and has chosen not to is post any sort of follow up ( I refuse to believe he's been ordered not to ) at all.

 

If this is a religious matter for you, you should have just said so at first and I would't have wasted my time.

 

Let's not confuse walking in to a casino and playing someone else's slot machine with obtaining one yourself in this game. Might as well compare apples to oranges as far as this debate goes, it holds no relevance.

Given that BW collects the money for the tokens and pays out the prizes, it's more like you paid the casino to be able to take home one of its machines so you could play it there. BW is still the house, so I was 100% on point. But I've gone through the math and models in other threads (and probably earlier in this one), so no need to continue.

 

No that knowledge is not necessary at all because you are shifting the goal posts. You seem to imply I'm trying to assign blame for the nerf to him when all I am doing is assigning the blame of the abysmal communication to him which, based on his role here, really does lie with him.

I'm not shifting anything, and I'm not implying anything about you blaming him for the nerf, I'm flat out stating that your refusal to consider that he answers to nobody at BW is ridiculous.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

New Zealand, I'm guessing, and apparently you guys do things differently down there.

 

Yes, logically, foreign concept to some.

 

Whether or not somebody knew something is of the utmost importance in determining whether or not they failed to convey something where I come from.

 

Not when we are talking about future communication also ( or lack of ). Unless you are implying he still hasn't realised it's been nerfed the way it is... maybe someone should mail him!

 

If this is a religious matter for you, you should have just said so at first and I would't have wasted my time.

 

I find that hard to believe, I think you would "waste your time" regardless of what I posted.

 

Given that BW collects the money for the tokens and pays out the prizes, it's more like you paid the casino to be able to take home one of its machines so you could play it there. BW is still the house, so I was 100% on point. But I've gone through the math and models in other threads (and probably earlier in this one), so no need to continue.

 

Yes because people pay casinos to take home machines from said casino's all the time. In fact I might do it on my way home.

 

That's not you just making another flawed analogy to suit your previous flawed analogy.

 

I'm not shifting anything, and I'm not implying anything about you blaming him for the nerf, I'm flat out stating that your refusal to consider that he answers to nobody at BW is ridiculous.

 

Of course he answers to people at Bioware, where exactly did I say he was solely a law unto himself?

 

I'm just stating that he has CHOSEN not to address this issue at all or even has this thread closed if need be. You're the one pointing out supposed conspiracy theories about how it's the Bioware upper ups trying to let it all blow over by not having him post anything at all.

 

You really have no evidence what so ever to back up your point of view yet I have his initial flawed post to back up mine. You can cry about the injustice of blaming him all you like but fact remains ... HE posted a flawed post, IT has had fairly negative reaction as a result and HE has done nothing to remedy it/follow it up/apologise.

[eartharioch]

Yes, logically, foreign concept to some.

No need to be rude, you indicated you didn't know how American companies worked, and I took you at your word.

 

Yes because people pay casinos to take home machines from said casino's all the time. In fact I might do it on my way home.

 

That's not you just making another flawed analogy to suit your previous flawed analogy.

Your failure to understand is not my failure to communicate. I'm sensing a trend here.

 

Of course he answers to people at Bioware, where exactly did I say he was solely a law unto himself?

When you said it was his choice to respond or not. Unless you're being unnecessarily pedantic and saying that he has free will, so thus had the ability to make the post, which I would concede. But then you are ignoring the fact that even though we are free to act as we will, that there are consequences.

 

I'm just stating that he has CHOSEN not to address this issue at all or even has this thread closed if need be. You're the one pointing out supposed conspiracy theories about how it's the Bioware upper ups trying to let it all blow over by not having him post anything at all.

If you want to characterize a group of people publicly working together in a corporation as a "conspiracy theory", go right ahead, just don't attribute it to me. Occam's Razor Time -- which is more likely: Eric alone does not want to address this issue, even though he's shown a past willingness to take the blame for things not likely to have been his fault, and even though not addressing it has caused problems; or Bioware (as a corporation) has decided not to address the issue, and Eric (as a Bioware employee) is acting in accordance with the corporate will (which could have been a group decision, his bosses direct order, the legal department's order, or whatever)?

 

You really have no evidence what so ever to back up your point of view yet I have his initial flawed post to back up mine. You can cry about the injustice of blaming him all you like but fact remains ... HE posted a flawed post, IT has had fairly negative reaction as a result and HE has done nothing to remedy it/follow it up/apologise.

I'm not crying about anything, you and other people are the ones crying about not getting a response. Yes, Eric posted something. And everything he posted happened as he said it would. Other things that he didn't post would happen, but didn't post wouldn't happen, happened. People brought up the issue, BW (which includes Eric) has been silent except for a verbal comment at a Cantina event that the issue was closed, and BW has cancelled all subsequent events at which people could ask questions. THOSE are the facts. Whether or not the post was flawed when it was made is not known to us. Whether or not Eric is free to comment without negative repercussions is not known to us.

 

If you want to keep blaming Eric, here in the forums, which you need to be a paying subscriber to do, keep at it. It's Eric's job to take the heat, and if all it takes to keep getting your money is for BW to leave this thread open and never look at, than BW obviously made the right call. If you actually want satisfaction, you'll need to do something that BW would notice, like unsub and state "Misleading Communication from Community Manager". If you (and enough other people) do this, maybe BW will decide to have Eric post something (too little too late or not), or maybe they'll just fire (or promote) him and hire somebody to replace him with somebody who will start out by apologizing for the previously poor communication, and go on to promise better communication in the future.

 

But I'm pretty much done with this conversation, so feel free to keep paying BW and playing whack-a-mole with individual employees; that's what they're there for.

[ivanhedgehog]

any news on the devs deciding to restore the slot machines to a useful state?

[Vhaegrant]

any news on the devs deciding to restore the slot machines to a useful state?

 

I'm going to go with no

It's pretty obvious they've said all they are willing to say on the matter in the forums. Not even going as far as to officially clarify the statement from the cantina was a bit poor but I can understand why they've taken the silent stance.

Will have to wait for the launch of the Explorer packs (http://dulfy.net/2015/02/26/swtor-patch-3-1-2-pts-patch-notes/) to see if they decide to have a second go with Cartel based slot machines and what the drop rates/ items will be.

I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll be included but only have rep tokens on them.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Your failure to understand is not my failure to communicate. I'm sensing a trend here.

 

I can understand you perfectly well, it doesn't make it any less irrelevant or flawed however.

 

When you said it was his choice to respond or not. Unless you're being unnecessarily pedantic and saying that he has free will, so thus had the ability to make the post, which I would concede. But then you are ignoring the fact that even though we are free to act as we will, that there are consequences.

 

So saying I believe he can choose whether or not to reply on this matter is the same as saying he has no one to answer in your eyes? Know who is demonstrating their failure to understand.

 

That trend you sense, you are sensing because it is coming from you.

 

Eric alone does not want to address this issue, even though he's shown a past willingness to take the blame for things not likely to have been his fault, and even though not addressing it has caused problems; or Bioware (as a corporation) has decided not to address the issue, and Eric (as a Bioware employee) is acting in accordance with the corporate will (which could have been a group decision, his bosses direct order, the legal department's order, or whatever)?

 

Or because in previous cases he has been told he needs to post apologies/follow ups etc. and in this case no such "order" came through and thus he has chosen not to. There are more options than just what you believe to be the only cases.

 

I fail to see what possible reason there would be to "order" him to say nothing in this case due to the more harm done from lack of communication which makes your position and view rather weak imo.

 

I'm not crying about anything, you and other people are the ones crying about not getting a response.

 

Sure you are, as soon as I point a finger of blame at Eric for his initial post causing a lot of the grief you're all but on your soap box protesting his innocence even though any argument you make towards me for "lack of knowledge" equally applies to you.

 

If you want to keep blaming Eric, here in the forums, which you need to be a paying subscriber to do, keep at it. It's Eric's job to take the heat, and if all it takes to keep getting your money is for BW to leave this thread open and never look at, than BW obviously made the right call.

 

It really wasn't such a big issue in my blame of his communication until you made it one.

 

Also if you are implying I am solely continuing to subscribe solely to post in this thread you are somewhat delusional.

 

If you actually want satisfaction, you'll need to do something that BW would notice, like unsub and state "Misleading Communication from Community Manager". If you (and enough other people) do this, maybe BW will decide to have Eric post something (too little too late or not), or maybe they'll just fire (or promote) him and hire somebody to replace him with somebody who will start out by apologizing for the previously poor communication, and go on to promise better communication in the future.

 

I am fairly satisfied, I was merely stating a point of view that you have taken exception to for some reason.

 

You can continue to shout from the roof tops all you like about how wrong it may be that I implicate Eric's poor communication as a major cause of this grief, it won't change my opinion when all you really have to back up your point of view comes down to is "maybe he was told not to " ... should have saved myself some times and replied "maybe he wasn't".

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'm going to go with no

It's pretty obvious they've said all they are willing to say on the matter in the forums. Not even going as far as to officially clarify the statement from the cantina was a bit poor but I can understand why they've taken the silent stance.

Will have to wait for the launch of the Explorer packs (http://dulfy.net/2015/02/26/swtor-patch-3-1-2-pts-patch-notes/) to see if they decide to have a second go with Cartel based slot machines and what the drop rates/ items will be.

I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll be included but only have rep tokens on them.

 

Yeah if they put new ones in it will surely be at the same drop rate as these current ones. I would inflame the situation so much more if they had better drop rates ( or weren't as useless as this one ) and didn't also remedy the current one.

 

I think you are right, mostly for rep with same drop rates as this one and possibly something new instead of the walker.

 

That or they make it better but also fix this one.