The Contraband Slot Machine

[MeNaCe-NZ]

That they make the game less enjoyable and more of a chore than anything.

 

Gear is a tool, not a goal.

 

I've always found a challenge to be more fun personally but that is me. In that it was challenging to get my toon geared with no guild/friend/alt support and also learn the GTN/crew skills etc. well enough to turn a profit ( something I personally wanted to do ).

 

I get that many people in MMOs find the concept of challenge to be rather daunting and want everything just handed to them in a silver platter but sometimes a little challenge can be a good thing.

 

Not that it's even overly challenging, it's still just a few button clicks and wait if you aren't buying the mats.

 

I don't even see how that is a chore really?

 

Anyway as you say gear is a tool not a goal ( for you ) so I am fairly confident you can be doing the game activities you actually enjoy whilst crew skills are running etc.? How is that at all arduous? How is anything to do with how the market/crew skills operating now that are affecting your ability to enjoy the game that require them to be drastically changed that it would make the game so much more enjoyable for you after said change?

[eartharioch]

It would also for all intents and purposes not affect the market quite as much because it would generally be operating at a loss so there wouldn't be the influx of materials we saw before.

 

Yeah, I covered that as well...here's a link (it was a response to one of the bajillion "here's my *new* proposal" threads...http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7996559&postcount=35

 

I think we're on the same page

[Max_Killjoy]

I've always found a challenge to be more fun personally but that is me. In that it was challenging to get my toon geared with no guild/friend/alt support and also learn the GTN/crew skills etc. well enough to turn a profit ( something I personally wanted to do ).

 

I get that many people in MMOs find the concept of challenge to be rather daunting and want everything just handed to them in a silver platter but sometimes a little challenge can be a good thing.

 

Not that it's even overly challenging, it's still just a few button clicks and wait if you aren't buying the mats.

 

I don't even see how that is a chore really?

 

Anyway as you say gear is a tool not a goal ( for you ) so I am fairly confident you can be doing the game activities you actually enjoy whilst crew skills are running etc.? How is that at all arduous? How is anything to do with how the market/crew skills operating now that are affecting your ability to enjoy the game that require them to be drastically changed that it would make the game so much more enjoyable for you after said change?

 

Need to make some armor and mods. Find that I don't have enough of the needed artifact mat at present. Send companions out, wait, go do other stuff on another character, come back, no artifact mat, send companions out again, etc. Perhaps several days later, depending on real-life demands on my time, I finally get some of the artifact mat, start crafting the first armor or mod. Lather, rinse repeat. Meanwhile, not playing the character who needs the armor and mods. Finally, a week later, blah.

 

Meanwhile, whenever I'm running missions to get the artifact mats, I'm building up GOBS of blues... GOBS.

 

(On all day today because we the roads were insanely icy and we all worked from home today.)

 

In an ideal world, I'd just send out the companions, and if they were 10k and +crit, there would be NO chance of them not coming back with at least one artifact mat from the missions that can drop them.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[eartharioch]

Need to make some armor and mods. Find that I don't have enough of the needed artifact mat at present. Send companions out, wait, go do other stuff on another character, come back, no artifact mat, send companions out again, etc. Perhaps several days later, depending on real-life demands on my time, I finally get some of the artifact mat, start crafting the first armor or mod. Lather, rinse repeat. Meanwhile, not playing the character who needs the armor and mods. Finally, a week later, blah.

 

Just curious, what is it that you think you *need*, and why? The leveling curve on this game is pretty low, so I'd think that blues would cut it for anything short of ops, and comm gear can carry you through them. I'm not being rude, I just can't think of anything short of ops that requires purples. Purples are more of a luxury item than a necessity.

[hachibushu]

That they make the game less enjoyable and more of a chore than anything.

 

Gear is a tool, not a goal.

 

But different people have different definitions of "tool" and "goal"... is that not just as valid?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Need to make some armor and mods. Find that I don't have enough of the needed artifact mat at present. Send companions out, wait, go do other stuff on another character, come back, no artifact mat, send companions out again, etc. Perhaps several days later, depending on real-life demands on my time, I finally get some of the artifact mat, start crafting the first armor or mod. Lather, rinse repeat. Meanwhile, not playing the character who needs the armor and mods. Finally, a week later, blah.

 

Meanwhile, whenever I'm running missions to get the artifact mats, I'm building up GOBS of blues... GOBS.

 

(On all day today because we the roads were insanely icy and we all worked from home today.)

 

In an ideal world, I'd just send out the companions, and if they were 10k and +crit, there would be NO chance of them not coming back with at least one artifact mat from the missions that can drop them.

 

As eartharioch pointed out, what is it exactly you need and why, need being the key word here.

 

Blues can be vendored ( barely go for more on GTN) and do a point of reducing the overall cost of running missions.

 

Your ideal world also exist, they are the wealthy missions from mission discoveries but for whatever reason you've decided those are too expensive just as buying direct from the GTN is. This is your choice and thus you are left with running the usual crew skills missions.

 

Still not seeing what the chore is here because wouldn't you be running the crew skill missions regardless or you would just stop if you didn't need the mats?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Just curious, what is it that you think you *need*, and why? The leveling curve on this game is pretty low, so I'd think that blues would cut it for anything short of ops, and comm gear can carry you through them. I'm not being rude, I just can't think of anything short of ops that requires purples. Purples are more of a luxury item than a necessity.

 

Even with OPs I believe you can get a full set of 186 gear just from doing the SoR story that is supposedly easy to do new ops in if you can do mechanics ( at least during the ravagers gear debate and if it affected anyone or not this was a few people's point of view on 198 vs 186 gear ) so there is really nothing in this game you need to craft for that I can think of.

[Khevar]

That's not just 10-12 missions run, that's 2+ weeks worth of missions, coming up to an average of about one "purple drop" per 10-12 missions, despite using a 10k affection, +2 critical crew to run them.

You should be experiencing a 22% critical rate on those missions, but according to your statement here, you're only getting a 9% critical rate.

 

Are you running Abundant / Moderate? Only Bountiful / Rich / Wealthly missions will drop Grade 9/11 purples.

 

If you aren't running the Abundant / Moderate missions, than I suspect that either your anecdotal evidence is false, or your sample size is too small.

 

1036 precisely tracked missions resulted in a 20% return rate for me. Here is the thread (which includes the raw log for the missions).

 

In the 3 years I've been doing crew missions and crafting in this game, I've seen two things:

 

1. People who log their missions and find that the results are ~20%.

2. People who don't log their missions and complain about drops being too low.

 

If you are certain that your drop rates are 9%, you should actually start logging your missions (and results). Once you have enough data, report it as a bug.

 

Honestly, it would be a breath of fresh air to see someone complain about RNG with some hard data to back it up.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Khevar

[Max_Killjoy]

You should be experiencing a 22% critical rate on those missions, but according to your statement here, you're only getting a 9% critical rate.

 

Are you running Abundant / Moderate? Only Bountiful / Rich / Wealthly missions will drop Grade 9/11 purples.

 

If you aren't running the Abundant / Moderate missions, than I suspect that either your anecdotal evidence is false, or your sample size is too small.

 

1036 precisely tracked missions resulted in a 20% return rate for me. Here is the thread (which includes the raw log for the missions).

 

In the 3 years I've been doing crew missions and crafting in this game, I've seen two things:

 

1. People who log their missions and find that the results are ~20%.

2. People who don't log their missions and complain about drops being too low.

 

If you are certain that your drop rates are 9%, you should actually start logging your missions (and results). Once you have enough data, report it as a bug.

 

Honestly, it would be a breath of fresh air to see someone complain about RNG with some hard data to back it up.

 

Kept a mental count of missions run for two weeks on two different characters, one UT and the other TH. Only running and counting the missions that have the potential to drop the artifact mats, I rarely bother running the rest once a skill like TU or TH is maxed.

 

A paper count with full numbers wouldn't be that much work.

[Khevar]

A paper count with full numbers wouldn't be that much work.

If you're willing to do this, it would be beneficial. I had a .txt file on my desktop that I used for my logs -- make it convenient.

 

If you want, I could import your into the crafting database I made for my own log -- it can be used to crunch the numbers.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Khevar

[Max_Killjoy]

Just curious, what is it that you think you *need*, and why? The leveling curve on this game is pretty low, so I'd think that blues would cut it for anything short of ops, and comm gear can carry you through them. I'm not being rude, I just can't think of anything short of ops that requires purples. Purples are more of a luxury item than a necessity.

 

After 3.0, what I "need" crafted purple item mods for is to fill in the gaps in 186 gear that the are left after using item mods pulled from the sometimes-terrible setups of the gear bought with Basic comms.

 

(This being a game, "need" is a terrible standard, really -- and "you don't need _____" from one player is an even worse standard in terms of judging whether another player should have access to whatever. Using the word "need" is simply very easy to fall back into when I don't catch myself.)

 

Oh, and Augments.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Max_Killjoy]

If you're willing to do this, it would be beneficial. I had a .txt file on my desktop that I used for my logs -- make it convenient.

 

If you want, I could import your into the crafting database I made for my own log -- it can be used to crunch the numbers.

 

What data do you need and how do you need it presented?

[Khevar]

What data do you need and how do you need it presented?

A straight text file would be fine. I can write a parser for just about anything.

 

For my own log, I wrote the mission name and a star if it got a crit. (When the mission returns, it gives the name in the "accept mats" window.)

 

I have a dictionary in the DB of every mission by name to "profession", "grade", "cost" and "difficulty" (rich, etc). I can then map this to the results for calculations.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Khevar

[Max_Killjoy]

A straight text file would be fine. I can write a parser for just about anything.

 

For my own log, I wrote the mission name and a star if it got a crit. (When the mission returns, it gives the name in the "accept mats" window.)

 

I have a dictionary in the DB of every mission by name to "profession", "grade", "cost" and "difficulty" (rich, etc). I can then map this to the results for calculations.

 

I'll try to be good about this, I have some bad habits when it comes to speed-clicking completed missions if I'm out doing something else (just mentally noting "artifact or not" in the moment it's showing).

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Choloe]

If it's cheaper than cost of the materials then yes do that.

 

Otherwise get off your own lazy *** and collect your own materials or mission discoveries and stop being a whinger about it.

 

Must be so difficult to be an all-knowing douche.

[eartharioch]

After 3.0, what I "need" crafted purple item mods for is to fill in the gaps in 186 gear that the are left after using item mods pulled from the sometimes-terrible setups of the gear bought with Basic comms.

 

(This being a game, "need" is a terrible standard, really -- and "you don't need _____" from one player is an even worse standard in terms of judging whether another player should have access to whatever. Using the word "need" is simply very easy to fall back into when I don't catch myself.)

 

Oh, and Augments.

 

I meant "need" in the objective sense -- as in, is there content that you *can't* do because you don't have the gear. And that could either be because your gear doesn't put out the right numbers, or because people won't group with you b/c they think your gear isn't good enough, or they think you suck and that better gear will make up the difference.

 

If you can do the content in the gear you have, and it just takes longer, than it's not really need.

 

Other than a mainhand, relics (since there are no 186 comm relics) and blue (178) augments, I'm not sure what an SM OPs player would *need* that Comms gear doesn't provide. The OH, armorings, and mods are the same, and the ear/implant/enhancements have the same important (tertiary) values, like Accuracy.

 

OTOH, if the "need" is to overcome lag and bugs, then the proper solution is for BW to fix the problems, not just toss out more mats and better gear.

Edited January 30, 2015 by eartharioch

[LordArtemis]

My suggestions are very general of course, and certainly not informed. However, the basis of the suggestion is what is pertinent here IMO.

 

The point is that they have been pushing mats out by other means now for a while. Conquests, packs, then the machine. Who knows what is next.

 

This incident was BOUND to happen at some point. Crew missions and scavenging have natural time investments built in that prevent massive dumps of materials on the economy, but by placing mats into these mechanics they have upset the general balance.

 

What they should have done, and still need to do IMO is to improve scavenging and crew missions. That should at least be the primary way to gain materials, if not the only way.

 

The problems this method of material delivery creates will continue IMO.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Agreed. Whilst I'm happy with crew skills etc. as they are that is just me. Based on the initial comment of Eric's it does seem like they want to increase supply somewhat so imo that should be done around crew skills.

 

As I said for some reason grade 11 was the most nerfed crew skills released so far ( 3 instead of 4 for grade 11 TH MDs for example ).

 

Why they would nerf the gathering yet say they wanted to increase supply is somewhat beyond me.

 

Not sure what the non MDs reward but going from 3 to 4 on TH at least is over a 30% increase in that form of supply, do it to all the crits on all gathering skills ... it would go al ong way to boosting supply thus dropping prices without making stupid money tree slot machines.

[Neglience]

Agreed. Whilst I'm happy with crew skills etc. as they are that is just me. Based on the initial comment of Eric's it does seem like they want to increase supply somewhat so imo that should be done around crew skills.

 

As I said for some reason grade 11 was the most nerfed crew skills released so far ( 3 instead of 4 for grade 11 TH MDs for example ).

 

Why they would nerf the gathering yet say they wanted to increase supply is somewhat beyond me.

 

Not sure what the non MDs reward but going from 3 to 4 on TH at least is over a 30% increase in that form of supply, do it to all the crits on all gathering skills ... it would go al ong way to boosting supply thus dropping prices without making stupid money tree slot machines.

 

Well, you only need 2 purples now for augments for example (was 4 before) and the time for missions was also greatly reduced. For me, they increased supply on mats with 3.0

Edited January 30, 2015 by Neglience

[eartharioch]

Well, you only need 2 purples now for augments for example (was 4 before) and the time for missions was also greatly reduced. For me, they increased supply on mats with 3.0

 

Yes. Each Rich Slicing crit makes 1.5 augments and each Bountiful crit makes 1; before, it was 1 and .5. And about a 50% speed reduction, so you should be able to make augments 2,5x as a fast as before.

[Raphael_diSanto]

Out of interest, what's the best way to get purple-dropping missions (Bountiful/Rich) to even show up in the list. Last dozen times or so I've sent people out, I've gotten nothing but Moderate/Abundants. Is it just random? Should I just keep swapping from my stronghold to my ship until I find one? Does that even work?

 

That, more than anything, is part of my huge frustration with gathering missions. It's hard to get the missions to show up in the first place and when they do, you only have a 20% chance of getting what you want from them.

 

Takes me back to the old EQ1 days of waiting for a rare mob to spawn who'd drop a rare item that you then had to roll against 6 other people for.

 

Except that this isn't some fantastic epic item. It's a purple crafting mat, that you need lots of to make better gear. I mean, they're the only way to get 186 hilts and barrels....

Edited January 30, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[Khevar]

Out of interest, what's the best way to get purple-dropping missions (Bountiful/Rich) to even show up in the list. Last dozen times or so I've sent people out, I've gotten nothing but Moderate/Abundants. Is it just random? Should I just keep swapping from my stronghold to my ship until I find one? Does that even work?

If you have 2 strongholds (e.g. capital planet and Nar Shaddaa), here is the best way:

 

1. Send comps out on every single mission in your list.

2. Switch to the other stronghold (loads pretty quickly).

3. You'll get a full list of missions again, which is likely to have the missing missions.

4. Press "x" to cancel out a single mission (one of the missions you don't want).

5. Pick one of the missions you do want.

6. Press "x" to cancel out another single mission.

7. Repeat.

 

You have to cancel out the missions one at a time for this to be effective. It works well on most of the professions, except for Diplomacy, mainly because there are twice as many missions (one for light, one for dark).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Yes. Each Rich Slicing crit makes 1.5 augments and each Bountiful crit makes 1; before, it was 1 and .5. And about a 50% speed reduction, so you should be able to make augments 2,5x as a fast as before.

 

Was that across the board? Hilt and enhancements for example ( forgot to check when i was just logged in, can't be bothered logging back in til later ).

[AdrianDmitruk]

If you have 2 strongholds (e.g. capital planet and Nar Shaddaa), here is the best way:

 

1. Send comps out on every single mission in your list.

2. Switch to the other stronghold (loads pretty quickly).

3. You'll get a full list of missions again, which is likely to have the missing missions.

4. Press "x" to cancel out a single mission (one of the missions you don't want).

5. Pick one of the missions you do want.

6. Press "x" to cancel out another single mission.

7. Repeat.

 

You have to cancel out the missions one at a time for this to be effective. It works well on most of the professions, except for Diplomacy, mainly because there are twice as many missions (one for light, one for dark).

 

Archaeology is another crew skill where this is less effective, because you have three times as many missions (one for power crystals, one for artifact fragments, and one for color crystals, the latter of which is ofc always useless). But it's still better than not stronghold rezoning at all.

 

Also why crew skill missions need a reshuffle button. We're going to do it anyways; just submit to the quality of life consideration and take out the completely unnecessary loading screens please.

[zufr]

Out of interest, what's the best way to get purple-dropping missions (Bountiful/Rich) to even show up in the list.

 

You already have some good answers, but here is some additional information.

 

The availability of the good missions is not the same across all tiers. Grade 11 is fine. For most professions, the mission that I want is usually available immediately or after one zone switch.

 

Grade 6, for example, only has Abundant and Moderate. There are no Rich or Bountiful at this grade.

 

In other grades, it can vary. For example you might find that at one grade, there is no Rich Diplomacy mission. At another grade, there might be no Rich Biochemical Compound mission.