The Contraband Slot Machine

[LordArtemis]

I am starting to think that eartharioch may have been right. The drop rate for purples does seem to be a bit high, and getting worse the more I use the machine. They should not be dropping at the same rate.

 

I must have had bad RNG....they are turning out the same, and that is DEFINITELY WRONG. So I guess purples do need a substantial nerf. Maybe half, maybe even more. We will see.

Edited February 8, 2015 by LordArtemis

[shinkabuto]

I also stopped crafting to sell on the GTN. No use as of now, nobody buy my stuff at my previous price. I mean, everything I crafted was from before these slot machines were in the game. I ran plenty of missions to get these mats, and selling with the prices changed to reflect what epic mats cost now would be a net loss for me. I prefer keeping the items for guildies that are levelling at the moment.

I also completely stopped running missions. It really has no interest anymore.

 

I understand it completely, but I find it more interesting to sell green mats now. So I won't craft in the near future, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Edited January 20, 2015 by shinkabuto

[Djiini]

Isn't there a point where things are too easy?

 

There is.

 

We ain't there yet.

[shinkabuto]

There is.

 

We ain't there yet.

 

Oh that's a fun one. REALLY? I'm not only talking about crafting mats, but everything else. Tacticals with the super OP GSI droids who can tank heal dps, everything below 60 is also ridiculously easy. I was trying to learn how to heal with a sorcerer to be better prepared for operations. Well the only thing you can do is HM 60. everything else is so easy that you can launch one heal every 10 seconds. You won't learn to play your class this way.

I was playing in vanilla and doing operations and let's just say it was kinda different when I came back for SOR.

 

But I'm getting side tracked. Let's talk about mats, more precisely, epic mats. Yesterday I tried the slot machine for the first time and I got 64 jawa junk for 396 chips. So for around 200K. Let's say I need my augments done. For those 64 jawa junk I can get 21 adaptive circuits. So that's it for the epic mats for 10 of the augments I would need to make myself full augment. Wasn't that a bit harder before? Wasn't that good?

 

I don't get as much entertainment for doing things if they are too easy. When I leveled to 60, the morning after I was full 186. And I was like "Meh 186, well that's ok".

Edited January 20, 2015 by shinkabuto

[Djiini]

Oh that's a fun one. REALLY? I'm not only talking about crafting mats, but everything else. Tacticals with the super OP GSI droids who can tank heal dps, everything below 60 is also ridiculously easy. I was trying to learn how to heal with a sorcerer to be better prepared for operations. Well the only thing you can do is HM 60. everything else is so easy that you can launch one heal every 10 seconds. You won't learn to play your class this way.

I was playing in vanilla and doing operations and let's just say it was kinda different when I came back for SOR.

 

But I'm getting side tracked. Let's talk about mats, more precisely, epic mats. Yesterday I tried the slot machine for the first time and I got 64 jawa junk for 396 chips. So for around 200K. Let's say I need my augments done. For those 64 jawa junk I can get 21 adaptive circuits. So that's it for the epic mats for 10 of the augments I would need to make myself full augment. Wasn't that a bit harder before? Wasn't that good?

 

I don't get as much entertainment for doing things if they are too easy. When I leveled to 60, the morning after I was full 186. And I was like "Meh 186, well that's ok".

 

Not everyone thinks that 'harder is better' in all aspects of gaming, pal. Why would I want Flashpoints to be the way they used to be? So I can suffer through bad randoms forever? No thanks.

[zwobots]

Let's see,

For 50k, you get a 100 tokens. I tried the machine yesterday for the first time and I think I got around 60 jawa junk for 400 tokens. So that means 15 jawa junk for 100 tokens, so for 50K. 15 jawa junk is 7 midlithe crystal.

So 7 midlith crystal cost around 50k. On my server, before this change, midlithe crystal were between 70k and 90k for 1.

So you are partially right, the main problem comes from the stockpiles. But the problem on the machine is quite real too.

With my example, you get a value of around 7k for a midlithe crystal if you don't gain any money. That's without counting blues and greens.

 

I'm pretty sure we're gonna have a flood of mats that we won't be able to use. Supply will swamp demand and the economy will be shot.

 

Well good thing is everyone will have 186 gear now, there is no excuse any more.

 

Your math assumes you only get Jawa Junk from that machine - but actually you get most of your money back from npc'ing the reputation items.

 

I bought 100k worth of slots, played the machine for 10 minutes - got 20 jawa junk, 20 blue, 23 green material items, and 91k credits from npc'ing all the reputation items. Thats 9k per 20 jawa junk.... thats under 500 credits per jawa junk.

 

Since i dont have end-game characters yet, i dont know how broken that is ( 20 purple mats for basically free every 10 minutes ) - the fact that lot of people spend hours behind that slot machine makes me think something is wrong with this idea.

 

Having a very profitable reason to stand behind a slot-machine for long periods of time does not feel like a good game design and seems to go against the original spirit of the game - with the crew skills being the way they are - send minions for missions while adventuring around yourself - instead of sitting behind a crafting table for a hour, clicking "craft" every 5 seconds like a robot.

 

edit: toned town the wording a bit ( too late )

Edited January 20, 2015 by zwobots

[Neglience]

Your math assumes you only get Jawa Junk from that machine - but actually you get most of your money back from npc'ing the reputation items.

 

I bought 100k worth of slots, played the machine for 10 minutes - got 20 jawa junk, 20 blue, 23 green material items, and 91k credits from npc'ing all the reputation items. Thats 9k per 20 jawa junk.... thats under 500 credits per jawa junk.

 

Since i dont have end-game characters yet, i dont know how broken that is ( 20 purple mats for basically free every 10 minutes ) - the fact that lot of people spend hours behind that slot machine says something is wrong with this idea.

 

Having a very profitable reason to stand behind a slot-machine for long periods of time reeks of bad game design and probably the guy who designed the original crew skill system ( you know, the one where you dont have to sit behind a equivalent or forge or blacksmithing table for hours and hours monotonously clicking every few seconds ) probably would not like this slot machine one bit.

 

On avarage, a purple mat gained with crew missions costs around 6600 credits and it takes around 150 minutes to get a crit (which yields 3)

Edited January 20, 2015 by Neglience

[Djiini]

You know what's good game design, though? Giving us previously CC-only rep for what's practically free now. I like to think it balances out 'design wise'.

[shinkabuto]

Your math assumes you only get Jawa Junk from that machine - but actually you get most of your money back from npc'ing the reputation items.

 

I bought 100k worth of slots, played the machine for 10 minutes - got 20 jawa junk, 20 blue, 23 green material items, and 91k credits from npc'ing all the reputation items. Thats 9k per 20 jawa junk.... thats under 500 credits per jawa junk.

 

Since i dont have end-game characters yet, i dont know how broken that is ( 20 purple mats for basically free every 10 minutes ) - the fact that lot of people spend hours behind that slot machine says something is wrong with this idea.

 

Having a very profitable reason to stand behind a slot-machine for long periods of time reeks of bad game design and probably the guy who designed the original crew skill system ( you know, the one where you dont have to sit behind a equivalent or forge or blacksmithing table for hours and hours monotonously clicking every few seconds ) probably would not like this slot machine one bit.

 

Well as I said I tried for the first time yesterday. And I needed the reps items to up my reputation so I didn't sell them. I'll try tonight again to see the real value.

[Neglience]

You know what's good game design, though? Giving us previously CC-only rep for what's practically free now. I like to think it balances out 'design wise'.

 

the machines could do that without ruining crew skills. and your point is the reason why players would use the machines even with zero crafting mats as a reward.

[shinkabuto]

You know what's good game design, though? Giving us previously CC-only rep for what's practically free now. I like to think it balances out 'design wise'.

 

I must agree with you on that point. I think it was a good idea. It's only a bit annoying for one of my friend that bought an overlord command chair for 7 millions 1,5 week ago. Just a tiny little bit ^^ Especially as he wanted a mount that was hard to get.

Edited January 20, 2015 by shinkabuto

[Djiini]

the machines could do that without ruining crew skills. and your point is the reason why players would use the machines even with zero crafting mats as a reward.

 

Yup; they could remove the crafting mats entirely and I wouldn't care. Mind, they could remove it and I wouldn't care, me having already got to Legend.

 

I must agree with you on that point. I think it was a good idea. It's only a bit annoying for one of my friend that bought an overlord command chair for 7 millions 1,5 week ago. Just a tiny little bit ^^ Especially as he wanted a mount that was hard to get.

 

Yikes, that's rough. My condolences to your buddy.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I do think that the machine trumps crew missions.

 

I also think that some of the claims with respect to the machine are overblown for dramatic effect.

 

I do not think some of the results posted are typical. And I DO think Bioware does have the numbers and will judge accordingly.

 

I can guaranty you that the results I have posted are exactly the results I have received. Until I saw this thread I was also posting them as an addition to a bug report I had submitted. BioWare will certainly see the statistics and unlike your 'feeling' that the numbers are exaggerated they will know that these results are typical. As I (ab)use the slot machines in the short term (though no where to the extent of some, I'm just building myself a big enough reserve that I can outfit my 20 chars in crafted purple gear) I find that as time goes on and I build different streaks of RNG that the fallout is settling pretty much in line with the probabilities that have been posted elsewhere.

 

My results fall directly in line with the results of many other people which fall in line with the supposedly datamined percentages. Small variations here and there but small enough that if my sample size were to be increased, these variations would likely disappear.

 

I am not exaggerating my results. DarthTHC is not either. Nor are most al people who have posted screenshots of the takeway from one, two, three stacks etc.

 

The results are really clear, the mechanics of the Slot Machine and the results that it produces should not be in question at all and that you continue to 'harbour doubts' really says nothing about the machine and more about your position.

 

The slot machine is broken. Its results at present break the game.

 

I _do not_ advocate removing the Jawa Scrap from the machine, just making the cost per result meet or exceed (I prefer exceed) the cost for like results from traditional gathering methods. It will still be faster and easier with more reliable results than gathering missions in the short term, but should have a cost associated with that convenience.

 

NOTE: This suggestion makes it _worse_ for me and the way I have been using the machine. It will cost me more to get what I want. I understand that this is good for the game and my self interest extends fairly far but I also understand that my self interest can not take precedence over the better health of the systems because damaged systems threaten the game and thus my source of entertainment.

 

To sweeten the pot and make the increased cost per pull more bearable (and perhaps even generate MORE interest in the slot machine, I have suggested they add additional rewards of prizes of items from prior Cartel Packs/Shipments. Giving them a chance to 'drop' similar to or slightly higher than the Kingpin Rancor from the Nightlife event (which has a .001 chance to drop..l. so maybe .003 or .005)

 

Also, Eric mentioned the Nightlife event, and what they failed to remember was that the items that were achieved through the nightlife event were not tradeable. You could not list them on the market for sale. So money spent was purely a money lost proposition. This is why I would support any prize drops from the machines (excepting the crafting materials and the reputation items, cartel market certs) be bind on pickup.

 

This prevents the player from being able to readily convert things to cash, and makes for tuning the return rate of prizes and the cost per material (jawa junk especially) can be managed so that, as above, it is at least equal to and preferably more than the cost per material gathered via the traditional methods.

 

This plan I see as the easiest of the proposals. It does not require a wholesale change to all the various crafting missions and the mechanics involved in achieving results. Some of which may have unintended consequences and require more balancing and more time spent testing before it went live.

 

We already know and have it well documented the average cost of materials via crew skill missions. Its a simple matter than the tweak the cost of the tokens and the return rate of items from the machine so that it will cost you more per item return than the traditional gathering method. No changes necessary at all to the crafting system.

 

The slot machine remains 'fun', the cost of materials is shifted so that the slot machine ceases to be the _best_ method to gather materials, hands down, but is still fun and useful and adds a layer of much needed currency sink into the economy. If it is sweetened as well by enabling players to start to fill out their collections of prior cartel shipments without having to wait for sales of packs long since their initial removal from the game this actually increases the fun of the slot and re-enforces its role as a money sink while also ensuring an ample supply of materials as many times the people pulling the lever for item drops are not looking for the materials and thus would convert them to currency on the market and thus assist in crafting and thus insure a constant flow of goods into the market and increase their availability and thus lower their prices.

 

Least effort, maximum return.

[Divona]

I understand it completely, but I find it more interesting to sell green mats now. So I won't craft in the near future, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

 

Problem is bigger and more complex. People often forget that 186 is basic rating now. With each new major update where we get new rating gear old one will drop prices a lot. Majority soon have all the basic gear they wanted and progress to better rating gear. But here comes the problem. Crafters could still make money but new artifact grade 11 crafting material only drops in HM new ops and not from first bosses ether. People on fleets trying to craft items for mats but what they dont see is that exotic materials drops are very very low overall.

Even if you get one material somehow, the price of that will be huge.

So there will be huge cap now between basic and elite gear. Comms vendors sell trash and all know it besides some implants and ears.

 

So even without slot machine the 186 items would still drop to a point that wont make any credits if you dont craft for yourself. The consumables were already low priced before slot machine came.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Divona

[shinkabuto]

Problem is bigger and more complex. People often forget that 186 is basic rating now. With each new major update where we get new rating gear old one will drop prices a lot. Majority soon have all the basic gear they wanted and progress to better rating gear. But here comes the problem. Crafters could still make money but new artifact grade 11 crafting material only drops in HM new ops and not from first bosses ether. People on fleets trying to craft items for mats but what they dont see is that exotic materials drops are very very low overall.

Even if you get one material somehow, the price of that will be huge.

So there will be huge cap now between basic and elite gear. Comms vendors sell trash and all know it besides some implants and ears.

 

So even without slot machine the 186 items would still drop to a point that wont make any credits if you dont craft for yourself. The consumables were already low priced before slot machine came.

 

 

Mmh before the crash of the market, resolve hilts were around 100k, resolve implants were around 200k (heal or dps was not so different), and so on. It was about 50k per violet item with of course variation because not everything has the same demand.

 

I'm not the one making the sales because i find the GTN boring. I was crafting for our guild to get enough money for the guild ship. I can tell that resolve accuracy power implants were sold at 240k sunday and 140k monday.

 

So even 186 gear was interesting for crafters. But now I suspect it won't be the case for long.

 

I guess I'll do dailies to grind money now. I'm kinda wondering why did I ever take time to learn the crew skills.

 

Of course the market for 186 gear would have eventually become less interesting as people geared up. But I think we still had a few weeks before that happened.

 

Now I think the supply will fast flood the demand and then, nothing will be worth much. And since it's not patched today you can be sure that a lot of people will hoard extremely high amounts of ressource, and even if they patch it, the damage will be done.

 

Well it will make it easy to gear people getting to 60. I guess that's the good thing in all that.

Edited January 20, 2015 by shinkabuto

[eartharioch]

Oh that's a fun one. REALLY? I'm not only talking about crafting mats, but everything else. Tacticals with the super OP GSI droids who can tank heal dps, everything below 60 is also ridiculously easy. I was trying to learn how to heal with a sorcerer to be better prepared for operations. Well the only thing you can do is HM 60. everything else is so easy that you can launch one heal every 10 seconds. You won't learn to play your class this way.

I was playing in vanilla and doing operations and let's just say it was kinda different when I came back for SOR.

 

But I'm getting side tracked. Let's talk about mats, more precisely, epic mats. Yesterday I tried the slot machine for the first time and I got 64 jawa junk for 396 chips. So for around 200K. Let's say I need my augments done. For those 64 jawa junk I can get 21 adaptive circuits. So that's it for the epic mats for 10 of the augments I would need to make myself full augment. Wasn't that a bit harder before? Wasn't that good?

 

I don't get as much entertainment for doing things if they are too easy. When I leveled to 60, the morning after I was full 186. And I was like "Meh 186, well that's ok".

 

This person gets it.

[Djiini]

This person gets it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpWwKIapbYU

 

Neither side is objectively right. Some people like easy. Some people like hard.

The people that like hard should stop whining that most people are just here for the game's story, which stuff like the God Droid are a symptom of.

[eartharioch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpWwKIapbYU

 

Neither side is objectively right. Some people like easy. Some people like hard.

The people that like hard should stop whining that most people are just here for the game's story, which stuff like the God Droid are a symptom of.

 

The game wasn't hard before. This isn't a "hard" v. "easy" discussion, it's "easy" v. "EZ".

[Djiini]

The game wasn't hard before. This isn't a "hard" v. "easy" discussion, it's "easy" v. "EZ".

 

Your point being?

[MandFlurry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpWwKIapbYU

 

Neither side is objectively right. Some people like easy. Some people like hard.

The people that like hard should stop whining that most people are just here for the game's story, which stuff like the God Droid are a symptom of.

 

YOU, have it RIGHT.

 

Too many whinners in these threads and Posts.

[Neglience]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpWwKIapbYU

 

Neither side is objectively right. Some people like easy. Some people like hard.

The people that like hard should stop whining that most people are just here for the game's story, which stuff like the God Droid are a symptom of.

 

Well, they can have the story without a single purple item.

[eartharioch]

Your point being?

 

That what you said was wrong.

[BuriDogshin]

Are the low prices due to the slot machine, or due to a stockpile of materials?

Using the slot machine, you have the following typical acquisition costs for Grade 11 purple mats:

• Midlithe Crystals and Doonium: 1200-1700 credits
  
• Auotimminue Regulators: 2400-3400 credits
  
• Adadaptive Circuitry: 3600-5100 credits
  

 

This is based on averages for 100-coin runs, selling the rep items and counting the green and blue scrap token and the CM Certs as having no value. That last is obviously not true, but we have not bothered to sell the CM Certs yet, so short-term for us the above numbers represent our short term credit outlays.

 

Midlithe Crystals are currently 6400 credits on Harbinger right now, a 300% markup over the above costs. At that price you need to sell around 650 of them to recoup the 3.2 million credit cost of a slot machine.

[BuriDogshin]

The slot machine is broken. Its results at present break the game.

 

No, it doesn't. It reduces the cost of two aspects of the game (purple mat acquisition and CM reputation acquisition). That's change, but it does not break anything.

 

This is not like the Collections bug that was a nearly limitless source of new gold in the game. Making purple mats cheaper just means some crafted item will be cheaper and more abundant. I don't see that that breaks anything. And making CM Certs and rep easier to get just means some vanity items, like mounts, are easier to get. Again, not game breaking.

 

I'd appreciate it if people would try to limit the hyperbole in their posts. Hyperbole works great for scamming people and comedy acts, but other than that it is not very productive.

[Theeko]

No, it doesn't. It reduces the cost of two aspects of the game (purple mat acquisition and CM reputation acquisition). That's change, but it does not break anything.

 

This is not like the Collections bug that was a nearly limitless source of new gold in the game. Making purple mats cheaper just means some crafted item will be cheaper and more abundant. I don't see that that breaks anything. And making CM Certs and rep easier to get just means some vanity items, like mounts, are easier to get. Again, not game breaking.

 

I'd appreciate it if people would try to limit the hyperbole in their posts. Hyperbole works great for scamming people and comedy acts, but other than that it is not very productive.

 

Also its pretty bad and pretty shady of how they put the Certs & Rep items into the game for next to no credits whatsoever now, when they have been only CM pack exclusive items for 2 years. Lots of people are going to stop buying packs now cause of it.