Lethality - Is it just a waste of time in pvp? Advice wanted.

[Thefriar]

So after playing bounty hunters, sages, and juggernauts I wanted to try something different. I rolled a lethality operative and actually liked the gameplay aspect of going in and out of range with hit/run dot tactics in pvp. Now that being said I am 57 and being told Lethality is a waste of time by many of my SWTOR friends. I just like the way it plays and that is enough for me to move onto 60 brackets and get facerolled by sorc/cons dots but I wanted to ask if anyone is having any success at 60 with lethality? Any advice you could give would be helpful.

[Adovir]

So after playing bounty hunters, sages, and juggernauts I wanted to try something different. I rolled a lethality operative and actually liked the gameplay aspect of going in and out of range with hit/run dot tactics in pvp. Now that being said I am 57 and being told Lethality is a waste of time by many of my SWTOR friends. I just like the way it plays and that is enough for me to move onto 60 brackets and get facerolled by sorc/cons dots but I wanted to ask if anyone is having any success at 60 with lethality? Any advice you could give would be helpful.

 

I'm sorry did lethality think that it could be something? Where's the nerf bat, I gotta give it a beating for thinking that it's people again

[Glower]

Its fun to troll the crowd...

 

But you lost the burst - 4-5 full culls with the longest setup time? Meh...

And also you got the worst AoE dots spreader in the game.

[Azurestone]

So after playing bounty hunters, sages, and juggernauts I wanted to try something different. I rolled a lethality operative and actually liked the gameplay aspect of going in and out of range with hit/run dot tactics in pvp. Now that being said I am 57 and being told Lethality is a waste of time by many of my SWTOR friends. I just like the way it plays and that is enough for me to move onto 60 brackets and get facerolled by sorc/cons dots but I wanted to ask if anyone is having any success at 60 with lethality? Any advice you could give would be helpful.

 

Spec to concealment and you'll see a whole new world

[FourPawnBenoni]

Having played both specs I will say that it is really a matter of preference of style. I have seen some very good Lethality operatives at lvl 60 but they are a rare find. It is not an easy class to play.

 

That being said; Concealment is not for everyone either and either way you're still a worse stealth class than a Sin

[Armadyil]

Certainly not a waste of time. I played both DPS specs and found lethality WAY more fun. It's not bad; has good damage output, relatively good defensive capabilities, is very versatile and is imo the most fun spec in the game.

 

Even did some ranked wzs with it, and that didn't go bad at all. You might have to put a little more attention to healing however.

[Saikochoro]

Lethality is not as good as concealment IMO, but if the play style suits you it is perfect fine in regs. The burst is still there. Energy used to be a real problem, but it's not so bad anymore. You have more ways of generating TAs now than ever before so you can cull much more often. Lethality is great in reg warzones. Only seen a couple decent ones in ranked though.

[Thefriar]

Thanks for info.

 

I am going to try to make it work because the playstyle is really fun. I do find its interesting for some players to try and figure out what the hell you are doing because they run into so few lethatlity operatives. The universal assumption is you are conceal or healing.

 

Arenas are pretty rough as no issues with survivability but the ramp up in damage just takes forever. Since the matches are almost over once the first player dies I see this is going to be a long term problem. I typically do half the damage of a warrior or sorc. Not good.

 

In warzones (longer time) when you can hide in a pack and do hit/run tactics I am usually in the top two in dps, not that total damage matters but you at least want to know its capable.

 

Cheers

[TVDF]

I usually heal on my operative, so I'm not an expert, but this is what I've found and what I've heard:

 

-lethality is a bit better at survivability, I think, due to the roll + infusion. Also, it's definitely better if you can't get close to your target because your dots are ticking, whereas if you're concealment there's not much you can do outside melee range.

-you can also be a really effective off-healer in lethality (dots, hots, infusion)

-as a healer, I've seen that a good concealment operative sitting on me can really shut me down, force me to focus on nobody but myself. This doesn't really happen with lethality.

-Assuming you can stay in melee range, I think concealment is the better option in pvp because of the burst.

-Lastly, due to burst, conc is better if you're trying to kill a lone defender at a node by yourself.

So, lethality definitely isn't a waste of time, but concealment might be a bit better. Concealment for flat out dps, lethality for utility.

Feel free to tell me how wrong that is lol, i don't really care.

[JonnnyB]

Thanks for info.

 

I am going to try to make it work because the playstyle is really fun. I do find its interesting for some players to try and figure out what the hell you are doing because they run into so few lethatlity operatives. The universal assumption is you are conceal or healing.

 

Arenas are pretty rough as no issues with survivability but the ramp up in damage just takes forever. Since the matches are almost over once the first player dies I see this is going to be a long term problem. I typically do half the damage of a warrior or sorc. Not good.

 

In warzones (longer time) when you can hide in a pack and do hit/run tactics I am usually in the top two in dps, not that total damage matters but you at least want to know its capable.

 

Cheers

 

Glad to hear you're sticking with it. I've been enjoying my lvl 59 lethality operative as well. I'll have to make another post once I hit 60 and share if I have a big drop in effectiveness or not, but for now I've been doing pretty good. I like that I have a little of everything - can dot up the enemy team, focus one guy, roll into / out of a fight, heal up, stealth... the only thing lacking imo is a bit of burst and that the set up time is long. But hey, there has to be a downside

 

From the perspective of my sniper / slinger, operatives are a real pain. Operatives can hurt my sniper pretty well and reliably kill me if my defensive cool-downs are already blown. Conversely operatives seem really hard to kill as a sniper since they can always just roll away (and dodge!), hide, heal up, and, if they're lethality, their dots just keep on working for them. Other ranged dps seem to have difficulty with operatives too, though I may be biased since I know them pretty well and so know how to abuse them.

 

Anyways, that's been my experience so far. Hopefully it says positive

[Shirvington]

I usually heal on my operative, so I'm not an expert, but this is what I've found and what I've heard:

 

-lethality is a bit better at survivability, I think, due to the roll + infusion. Also, it's definitely better if you can't get close to your target because your dots are ticking, whereas if you're concealment there's not much you can do outside melee range.

-you can also be a really effective off-healer in lethality (dots, hots, infusion)

-as a healer, I've seen that a good concealment operative sitting on me can really shut me down, force me to focus on nobody but myself. This doesn't really happen with lethality.

-Assuming you can stay in melee range, I think concealment is the better option in pvp because of the burst.

-Lastly, due to burst, conc is better if you're trying to kill a lone defender at a node by yourself.

So, lethality definitely isn't a waste of time, but concealment might be a bit better. Concealment for flat out dps, lethality for utility.

Feel free to tell me how wrong that is lol, i don't really care.

 

For sure, play what you like and enjoy. You'll do better if you enjoy the playstyle even if another spec is stronger.

 

That being said, concealment has better survivability due to roll granting immunity. Hot yourself up and roll just as enemies burst you (especially casters and snipers) and you can really extend your longevity, more so than the free hot from lethality.

[reubands]

I have always loved lethality, and it's really fun now since Weakening Blast (and Sever Tendon if you spend the utility point as I do) grant tactical advantage, so you can Cull every other cooldown, sometimes 4 times in a row if you set it up well. It isn't a game changer, and it doesn't put up the numbers Concealment does, but give up? I certainly wouldn't and haven't. It may need work to be on par with the rest of the board, but with a good team to help keep pressure up, you could end up really hurting some people if they don't focus quickly enough. So stick with it I say, I'm tired of seeing operative healers anyway lol

[lpsmash]

The setup is way too long and disruptable (operatives, shadows and sorcs can purge the dots), and the payoff is not big enough. In my opinion, lethality is a waste of time and the spec just doesn't work most of the time.

[Fellow-Canadian]

Lethality is terrible at 60.

 

A few reasons:

• The setup time before you can cull takes too long
  
• The dots do negligible damage and don't hurt anyone
  
• The instant heal gained through roll doesn't keep up with the big damage you'll take
  
• Concealment can deal their full burst damage immediately and don't have long setup times
  
• Resist/Dodge on roll from concealment is simply amazing for survival
  

[Pferdebremse]

I have to agree, I pretty much main a ruffian scoundrel, but it's just not worth it..

 

You can roll around and heal yourself, but itll only delay the inevitable. Setup time is too long, DoTs do little damage, the "burst" isn't really there either once you have everything setup (by that time you're either dead or your target is already dead)

 

The DoT spread is pretty much unusable compared to what Hatred Sins get (or pretty much any other DoT spreading spec in the game)

 

Hatred Sins have a finisher, you dont, they have a ton more CCs and their heals are passively rolling with their normal rotation while you have to waste GCDs to activate yours. And immunities, and escapes. And and and...

 

It's sad that after 3 years Bioware still hasn't figured out how to make Lethality/Ruffian viable for PvP. I don't think they care.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Pferdebremse

[nitroyoshi]

Lethality is terrible at 60.

 

A few reasons:

• The setup time before you can cull takes too long
  
• The dots do negligible damage and don't hurt anyone
  
• The instant heal gained through roll doesn't keep up with the big damage you'll take
  
• Concealment can deal their full burst damage immediately and don't have long setup times
  
• Resist/Dodge on roll from concealment is simply amazing for survival
  

 

only point thats reasonable is the 2nd

the rest is part of the spec and working as intended

 

its a sustained damage spec

Edited January 16, 2015 by nitroyoshi

[Glower]

the rest is part of the spec and working as intended

 

its a sustained damage spec

 

Say it to the right tree sins/sorcs/or even mercs and to the left tree maras. Do not forget about mid tree jugs!

[Thefriar]

Thanks for even more info. As I have done about 20 warzones today this is what I have discovered:

 

As was mentioned you are a decent off healer so I have started to heal a bit more, thanks for the advice - better than nothing.

I tend to be able to escape a fight I don't want to fight. This is huge as if I don't like how its going I can almost always get away.

Although the roll is not as powerful as conceal I do like the instant hot as its saved me more than a few times

As was also mentioned before counterstrike seems pretty mandatory to not get rooted

I also love revitalizers to be a bit more tanky

If you play lethality as a AP bounty hunter lethality can be a real pain and you will be disappointed. If you play it as a utility class that can offheal, it seems much better than most give it credit for.

I am going to find the happy medium and be a jack of all trades and master of none. Time will tell if it can do anything at the higher levels. I still believe there is more to this spec than most realize.

[Pferdebremse]

Yes, you can roll around and away and keep yourself alive and even throw some negligable fluff damage around, but you're not really doing anything useful.

 

The reality is you're taking up a spot that could be filled by a truly effective DPS guy or Healer instead.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Pferdebremse

[nitroyoshi]

Say it to the right tree sins/sorcs/or even mercs and to the left tree maras. Do not forget about mid tree jugs!

annihilation has a long ramp up time

hatred had a 4-5 global ramp up time until they added assassinate and that substitue for maul into the rotation

pyrotech mercs have always sucked

vengeance has too high survivability and i dont know why you included this spec when its a completely different playstyle

[Tellenn]

If you like that floating medium range stealth style why not go for a hatred sin. They are superior in almost everyway and have a much easier time spreading their dots which is central to dot classes now.

[Thefriar]

Yeah I have a hatred cons at 60. Its awesome no doubt. I like to try to make something work which most people feel won't . Although likely to fail I don't really care. I am sure I could be more effective as hatred but I like to play classes which are unpopular. I know its weird

[Prototypemind]

If you're doing it just for fun, hey, enjoy it, but it's a very inferior spec. You're not going to pressure other players with it, but if you like how it feels, do your thing.

[Armadyil]

Reason not to go hatred sin: it's no fun to play a mainstream, OP spec. Went back from Tactics to Pyrotech, because I don't want to be seen as FOTM reroller... Maybe that's why I like leth ops Ain't no dog like the underdog!

 

I did some more ranked games on my leth ops, and you can do really well, but it's not easy. With 3 DR pieces, had some good games with 1.5 k dps and 500 hps, and one with 1k d- and hps, but I find it hard to balance healing and dps. Once I took over healing after our healer died, while still doing some burst on enemy healer when necessary, and we managed to win that match. Best is of course when you only have to care about doing damage and popping defense screen, and then you can do really good dps, although it is lower than for example hatred sin.

 

No idea where the idea comes from that lethality operative is a sustained dps. It is delayed burst. Cor. grenade, cor. dart, shiv, weakening blast, lethal strike, 3 or 4x cor. assault, can't be described different than burst. It just has a long setup time.