So Underlurker is BROKEN AGAIN.

[Grayseven]

With Coratanni we exit the zone after the Master/Blaster fight, reset the instance and then zone back in. Never had any issues with the fight bugging out when we do that (and we don't have to clear the trash twice).

[BuriDogshin]

I am smart enough to know the ones that handle ToS enforcement are not the coders of the game. You'd do well to realize its different departments.

Do you think writing database queries is easy? Do you think you can figure out who did and did not exploit, and who sold the exploit, and so on, without a detailed knowledge of the structure and contents of that database? Even if the devs dump the database into a CSV, any analysis of all that data is going to take some serious programming.

 

And do you think you can impose mass sanctions, like gear or credit clawbacks, without complex database scripts that query, analyze, and (and this is the very very dangerous part) modify the database?

 

So who do you think writes and debugs database queries and scripts? The CS reps? Marketing? Managers?

No. Database queries and scripts need to be written by devs who know the game internals, who know the database schemas. The very same devs that could be part of the solution for many of the bugs plaguing the game.

Anyone else who tries it should have their keyboard privileges revoked.

Edited January 14, 2015 by BuriDogshin

[Quraswren]

SNIP....

 

If you think resources from one stops or hinders bug fixes you're worse off than I thought you were.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Quraswren

[Tsillah]

Hmm, my group hasn't really had any transitional issues with that fight. Our strategy has been to DPS them down at the same rate. The only time we sort of had an issues was just when Coratanni waited until 9% to leave. Not sure if it makes a difference, but she doesn't jump around the room for us, and we're pretty sure that's because the ranged on Pearl, and her tank and healer stand by the ramp and the escape pod. If they stay over there then Coratanni doesn't seem to move until it's time to transition.

 

Well, we didn't actually have the problem but heard about it and we just tried this tactic because it came recommended. We found it easier than doing it the "normal" way so we just stuck to it. Even with there not being a door and not resetting the instance it never failed us in any case.

[MillionsKNives]

Do you think writing database queries is easy? Do you think you can figure out who did and did not exploit, and who sold the exploit, and so on, without a detailed knowledge of the structure and contents of that database? Even if the devs dump the database into a CSV, any analysis of all that data is going to take some serious programming.

 

And do you think you can impose mass sanctions, like gear or credit clawbacks, without complex database scripts that query, analyze, and (and this is the very very dangerous part) modify the database?

 

So who do you think writes and debugs database queries and scripts? The CS reps? Marketing? Managers?

No. Database queries and scripts need to be written by devs who know the game internals, who know the database schemas. The very same devs that could be part of the solution for many of the bugs plaguing the game.

Anyone else who tries it should have their keyboard privileges revoked.

 

And you think the database engineers also spend a bunch of time bug fixing ops bosses?

[BuriDogshin]

If you think resources from one stops or hinders bug fixes you're worse off than I thought you were.

So who at BW do you think is determining who exploited, and how do you think they are doing that?

And who do you think would implement mass sanctions, and how do you think they would do it?

 

I've spent decades doing software engineering and I've done client-server and database programming. Have you?

If not, and you therefore don't understand "how the sausage is made," why should anyone pay any attention to your unsupported conclusory statements regarding these matters?

[Lordkoon]

These new Operations are some of the most creative and interesting Operations put into the game.

 

You can't be serious.

[BuriDogshin]

The resources being used to decide and implement sanctions vs the group working on bug fixes are not going to hinder each other.

I ask you, again, to back up your conclusion, as I have already backed up mine:

So who at BW do you think is determining who exploited, and how do you think they are doing that?

And who do you think would implement mass sanctions, and how do you think they would do it?

 

Feel free to not provide your reasoning, of course. It's your reputation at stake, after all, so you may not care.

[davidmoffitt]

 

Yep, it's still broken. In fact I would say it's broken far worse than before. It was imminently clearable before, maybe not a guaranteed 1-shot each time due to bad RNG (like we'd lose 3 people who on their screen were 10+ meters from a rock fall circle LOL) but we could beat it every night and go 5/5 Imp and Pub side (Shadowlands). Now? It's damn near impossible no matter whether you all stack, DPS stack and tank separate, stack on adds, stack behind rock, don't stack at all and run around like chickens with your head cut off. It's just plain f'd now.

[davidmoffitt]

Oh, and those facing Cortanni issues, a "Work around" we found was this:

 

1 tank on her, 1 on bird. No tank swap, simply re-taunt the bird back after the agro dump. Tank on bird's job is to move the bird when she jumps, to separate them and aim the conal away.

 

DPS attack only the bird until it is at 30% health. Then switch to Cortanni, push her to ~19% where she will leave. Then everyone STACK on the bird (so it doesn't jump around) and burn it.

 

Doing this avoids having to deal with fire / blue circles during the later part of this fight (they stop once she jumps to the pod), and if your DPS is really on the money, you will get zero or maybe one set of deck guns.

 

This has worked reliably 100% of our runs (all 1-shots) for several weeks now, after figuring it out week 1. That's 8m SM, I cannot speak for other modes.

[Quraswren]

Oh, and those facing Cortanni issues, a "Work around" we found was this:

 

1 tank on her, 1 on bird. No tank swap, simply re-taunt the bird back after the agro dump. Tank on bird's job is to move the bird when she jumps, to separate them and aim the conal away.

 

DPS attack only the bird until it is at 30% health. Then switch to Cortanni, push her to ~19% where she will leave. Then everyone STACK on the bird (so it doesn't jump around) and burn it.

 

Doing this avoids having to deal with fire / blue circles during the later part of this fight (they stop once she jumps to the pod), and if your DPS is really on the money, you will get zero or maybe one set of deck guns.

 

This has worked reliably 100% of our runs (all 1-shots) for several weeks now, after figuring it out week 1. That's 8m SM, I cannot speak for other modes.

 

Going to give this a try tonight.

 

I ask you, again, to back up your conclusion, as I have already backed up mine:

So who at BW do you think is determining who exploited, and how do you think they are doing that?

And who do you think would implement mass sanctions, and how do you think they would do it?

 

The ones at BW making the decisions on sanctions and the ones implementing them are 2 different teams along with a third team who handles bug fixes.

 

Doesn't matter names at that point. No one is silly enough to think any one department is going to be hindered in doing their job and fixing bugs because another is working on a list of data that shows who did what and how they will sanction them much less the implementation.

 

Fixing game bugs will have little to nothing to do with whoever implements and sanctions to gamers for exploiting.

 

Feel free to not provide your reasoning, of course. It's your reputation at stake, after all, so you may not care.

 

Are you one of those fools who believes there is any stake in having some arbitrary forum reputation and it somehow means something? Forum reputation. LMFAO....

Edited January 14, 2015 by Quraswren

[BuriDogshin]

Are you one of those fools who believes there is any stake in having some arbitrary forum reputation and it somehow means something? Forum reputation. LMFAO....

Well, that's the last thing anyone ever needs to read from you, then, isn't it?

[g_land]

Torque was bugged for my guild last night. The repair droids wouldn't move, they just stood there where they spawned. Don't know if this is new, but it's the first time I saw that. Good thing you don't need them on SM.

 

We saw this last night, they would get summoned and just stop in the door.

[GadgetDon]

It doesn't matter what you claim to be. This is the internet. We're all software engineers, MMA fighting, lawyer, video game developing geniuses.

 

What you claim to be, means 2 things. Jack and Sh * T.

 

The resources being used to decide and implement sanctions vs the group working on bug fixes are not going to hinder each other.

 

That's an assumption.

 

If the developer team was massive, dozens of programmers that work on different parts, it might not - but those programmers were working on something and got pulled off it for the lynch mob satisfaction. But the impression I get is that the developer team is not particularly large. For one thing, I judge on results and if the developer team was massive, we'd get more and it wouldn't have so many problems. (Yes, yes, I've read the Mythical Man-Month - but I've also worked on small teams called upon to do more than fits reasonably and the results are a lot like this, shortcuts and things not well tested or completed.)

 

If I'm right, and it's a small team, the devs do a lot of double (and triple and quadruple) duty. There isn't one team for DB queries and one for op bugs and one for new ops. So pulling people off their work to hunt down exploiters has an impact, even if that person wouldn't have been working on op bugs, the person who was may be called of to do what the exploiter tracker was supposed to be doing.

 

Plus, to the degree there is specialization - bug fixing often involves a lot of looking at data to see what went wrong. So they'd be the best exploit trackers.

 

And yes, I am a programmer, Donald Brown, cofounder of CE Software. Never worked on an MMO but worked on a number of programming teams.

[Kourage]

 

Yep, it's still broken. In fact I would say it's broken far worse than before. It was imminently clearable before, maybe not a guaranteed 1-shot each time due to bad RNG (like we'd lose 3 people who on their screen were 10+ meters from a rock fall circle LOL) but we could beat it every night and go 5/5 Imp and Pub side (Shadowlands). Now? It's damn near impossible no matter whether you all stack, DPS stack and tank separate, stack on adds, stack behind rock, don't stack at all and run around like chickens with your head cut off. It's just plain f'd now.

 

I can't even run it. I'm always someplace other than where it shows me. Am I supposed to run worthless old Operations and garbage HM recycled Flashpoints? In 10 days, I'm going to stop paying them.

[Kurin]

Has an Ops group found a reliable strategy workaround for the cross failing? Today I was chatting with one of my healers and thinking about what we saw last night, and wondered maybe if all 8 of us simply stack on the tank, we could heal through the failed cross, and simply ignore the mechanic altogether. Is that strategy known to work? Or will it do more damage if essentially all of us are not in position?

[oakamp]

I can't even run it. I'm always someplace other than where it shows me. Am I supposed to run worthless old Operations and garbage HM recycled Flashpoints? In 10 days, I'm going to stop paying them.

 

u should stop pay em immediately,

or command em to refund ur sub until em fix these critical BUGs.

[Znozzy]

Has an Ops group found a reliable strategy workaround for the cross failing? Today I was chatting with one of my healers and thinking about what we saw last night, and wondered maybe if all 8 of us simply stack on the tank, we could heal through the failed cross, and simply ignore the mechanic altogether. Is that strategy known to work? Or will it do more damage if essentially all of us are not in position?

 

Depends on how good your healers are. My group had some real trouble with the cross phase, you -can- take alot of damage, if someone falls behind the healers can't abandon aoe heals for single target ones. if someone is out of the AOE heals range. This depends on what class your healers are though. My group managed to pull ahead again after a few mechanic wipes.

 

Our workaround was to place him in the middle of the room to make him glitch less, to some success we went from 1/5 to 4/5. You do need a coordinated team to pull it off, people need to be quick as hell to get into position and you cant have any late comers or the game wont register them as inside the cross.

[psikofunkster]

Did this fight for the first time today, if you combine the boss jumping + the adds jumping + the lag....is a hell of a fight, cant say i enjoyed it, gonna make pugs almost impossible. I can already see people going to wrong side on the cross phases most of the times...sigh. Edited January 15, 2015 by psikofunkster

[Onrush]

Cleared Underlurker tonight with one tank in front, one tank in the back and three players at each arm. We all jumped once we were inside the cross in position. No failed crosses except when an extra player was on the wrong side.