cvak Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Amazing that remorse hits in the same day devs post that they will do "something". I hope they wipe all you have gained and as a reminder to act nice, also wipe all 192 and 198 gear from you account wide. This because I do not support even temporary bans in this time and age. I also hope they are not lenient towards any squirrel who in fear of losing stuff is feeling fake sorry. You're of course allowed to feel like that, but if you took the time to think about this for more than 2 seconds, you'd realize that this would be really bad for the game. Why? Because it would force most of the very active and dedicated userbase to quit swtor. Maybe you think that's a good thing, and for some time, maybe it will be. However, with a lot of people who spend a lot of CC and time gone, you will suddenly find yourself with a much more empty game. Who are the people writing guides? Who are the people beta testing? Who are the people crafting all that sht you need but can't be bothered to spend months getting the RE:s for? Who are the people taking active roles in guilds? Who are the people most often leading ops groups, both in guild and pugs? In theory, banning everyone who used this exploit might sound nice, the same way throwing everyone who used drugs into jail and throwing away the key might sound nice. I mean, then there would be very little organized crime since all their customers are gone! The issue with both scenarios is that it will cause a lot of more harm than it will do good. No MMO can survive long term without an active, core user base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniehenlau Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think they should reset all the players that did this (aka, set credits to 0) and ofc remove the crafting schematics, gear etc. That way, said players will not just lose their gain, but also get a slap on the hand as punishment. The thing is, a 1-2 weeks suspension is nothing. You can just pick up where you left off no problem after it ends. A permaban is again to harsh, and also removes a lot of the more hardcore players that remain in this game. If, say, 5 people of a raid group of 16 gets permabanned, the remaining 11 is likely to quit the game as well. Not all, but several. This will in turn cause the guild to collapse, and even more players will leave, cuz their friends are no longer playing. It's a tough decision, which is why I think they should severely punish them ingame, but leave their accounts alone. My two cents anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 What takes guts is standing up for what's right when you have nothing to gain and everything to lose, not when you are caught red-handed and the best excuse you can come up with is "the Devil made me do it". The OP would've had guts if he had reported the exploit when he found out about it. Instead, he obviously thought "meh, they aren't going to do anything to us" so he waited until the very last minute - when it was clear that something would be done - to admit that he used an exploit, hoping that there would be people that would fall for it. Social pressure? lol /Signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think they should reset all the players that did this (aka, set credits to 0) and ofc remove the crafting schematics, gear etc. That way, said players will not just lose their gain, but also get a slap on the hand as punishment. The thing is, a 1-2 weeks suspension is nothing. You can just pick up where you left off no problem after it ends. A permaban is again to harsh, and also removes a lot of the more hardcore players that remain in this game. If, say, 5 people of a raid group of 16 gets permabanned, the remaining 11 is likely to quit the game as well. Not all, but several. This will in turn cause the guild to collapse, and even more players will leave, cuz their friends are no longer playing. It's a tough decision, which is why I think they should severely punish them ingame, but leave their accounts alone. My two cents anyways How about a reset to level 1, no credits, nekkid, no weapon, and a persistent damage debuff? Hehe.. that way.. they can simply /quit themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheGeek Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Perhaps you should have written a ticket about the loot, like dozens other groups did and got their gear. Worst explanation for exploiting ever. We all did... they made the back door to counteract their own mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvenHardNiner Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 What takes guts is standing up for what's right when you have nothing to gain and everything to lose, not when you are caught red-handed and the best excuse you can come up with is "the Devil made me do it". The OP would've had guts if he had reported the exploit when he found out about it. Instead, he obviously thought "meh, they aren't going to do anything to us" so he waited until the very last minute - when it was clear that something would be done - to admit that he used an exploit, hoping that there would be people that would fall for it. Social pressure? lol I sent a ticket the very same day I did it thank you very much. No response yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrellma Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Sorry, but if your "raiding" team feels the need to use exploits to get BiS gear without doing the content, they do not deserve to be called raiders. Nor do you for going along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I already have sent them a ticket and explained why. I did it 5 times all on the same day and regretted doing it after.. Obivously I'm a bit scared of having my account perma banned Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Social pressure? lol Yes social pressure, don't act like you are some sort of super-human who don't fall for this sort of stuff. There is a whole discipline of sociology and psychology that deals with this issue, so don't just wave your hand as if this is nothing. Underestimating our influence over others' unethical behavior and decisions. New research suggests that to avoid social discomfort, many people will agree to perform a bad deed rather than say no. From a specialized blog on this study: The key finding was that people playing the role of actor said they'd feel a lot more uncomfortable if a friend or colleague (the instigator) nudged them toward behaving unethically (e.g. by saying it's stupid to pay for a movie you can get for free), compared with advising them to behave ethically. By contrast, those participants playing the role of instigator, or a neutral party, did not anticipate that the actor would experience this difference in social discomfort depending on the nature of the advice they received. Edited January 13, 2015 by znihilist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I did the exploit, too. And here's how it went down. I waited a bit before getting the expansion, so I missed the first two weeks of live. And I'm sitting there, working on my third alt and I get a whisper from my guildie. "Hey. What're you doing?" Me: "Nothing. Why?" He says, go get on your main. So I do. He invites me and turns group into a raid group. Says, go to the Ravagers instance and grab the weekly for Ravagers on your way. I say, okay. I get to the Ravagers entrance, he tells me to get the one-time mission, and I do, then he sends me in by myself. Says 'click the shuttle', I do and instant success. I'm amazed. Me: "When did this happen?" Him: "It's been like this since PTS, apparently." Suddenly, I'm terrified of consequences. I just exploited. I didn't realize it, but I realized it afterward. I said as much. "Dude, they're gonna be pissed." Him:"They're not going to do anything, calm down." Me:"How the hell can you be so sure about it?" Him:"Because they let Nefra SM/HM get farmed for months and didn't do anything to anyone, even after they fixed it. They never did anything about open win-trading in PVP. And they still haven't done anything about NiM Dashrude. BW doesn't punish exploiting, they just fix the problem and move on." That made sense to me at the time, and, to be honest, my whole group of friends were already doing it and I'd already done it, albeit unknowingly. If they got banned, so would I. And if they did and I didn't, I'd probably quit the game to follow them to whatever game they found to replace SWTOR. So, at that point, I'd exploited already, so why not do it on my other 60s? In for a penny, in for a pound. And I did it again the following week on all my 60s. Again, in for a penny, in for a pound. The week that the official noticing came forth and all my guildies quit as well as I because we figured 'well, they noticed now, officially, might as well stop while we're ahead.' Made sense again, so I followed their lead and avoided the exploit. Now, we're all of the same mind. This expansion is a broken one. So many bugs. And while many of them have been fixed, during the whole exploit thing, so much was messed up and not functioning properly that it really frustrated a good portion of my friends. We're still frustrated. And to have that buggy content put forth as a legitimate expansion and 'then' get word that we might be punished for taking advantage of one aspect of a 'known' broken raid? Well, the consensus was pretty simple: It's not likely that we'll be punished, but if the punishment comes down and it's too severe, we'll just move on. Our collective patience is at an end. Had this expansion come out and it'd been a quality one from the start and there'd been quick action to prevent rampant exploitation(if you can call walking into an instance and right-clicking a shuttle to be an exploit), then I would agree that some punishment would have been in order. If they'd shut down Nefra in a hurry and kept it from being farm-content for 2man groups and solo-ing, even on HM, then I'd agree that some punishment was in order. If they actually punished win-traders and Dashrude soloers, they might have a case for punishment. But, what we're getting is an inconsistent message. 'This' exploit is getting all kinds of attention and talk of punishment while all the rest are conveniently ignored and hand-waved away. BW has created the precedent of simply ignoring gear-rewarding exploits. Like it or not, ignoring Nefra and other exploits in the past gave the player base a false impression that they don't care about exploiters. And now, you're dealing with an angry player base who are wondering 'why' this exploit is so deserving of punishment and the assumption that it's because they'd rather focus on the exploiters and not look at the horrendous condition with which this expansion launched in. Simple put, Ravagers was broken before they even launched the expansion and those in charge knew it and it went live anyways. BW has a history of ignoring gear-rewarding exploits. Combine the two and you might realize why so many people took advantage of something that technically could have resulted in their permanent banning from the game. It wasn't disregard for the rules so much as looking back on BW's stance on exploits and exploiters and reasonably assuming that they'd treat this exploit as they did the ones that came before. Not an excuse here. An explanation and perhaps some reasoning for why some people acted as they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniehenlau Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How about a reset to level 1, no credits, nekkid, no weapon, and a persistent damage debuff? Hehe.. that way.. they can simply /quit themselves. Hehe, well, that way they can just be banned and make a new account Resetting to 0 creds might be a bit harsh, but removing a portion could be viable? Like 50% of all credits on your account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saremun Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I did it a total of 5 times. 3 on one server, 2 on another.... Sure..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacta Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No remorse for cheaters. You knew it was wrong when you did it, man up and take your punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHobbit Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 BW has added a lot of social pressure indirectly, some guild if you miss out on conquest can get you kicked, and while they cansay truthfully that theyare not doing it ,they setup the reason.i only do some conquest,and most of my altsa re gathers and guilds i have belonged to have done planets where I would have to only do a lot of daily grinding of ops to get close to the points needed. I really dont like grinding.I did not do the exploit but I dont care let them keep their stuff,in a few years what will it matter. most likely they will be on to another game or this one will be shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) How about a reset to level 1, no credits, nekkid, no weapon, and a persistent damage debuff? Hehe.. that way.. they can simply /quit themselves. Something like a swtor rakata purgatory where a player gets sent after breaking terms of service Player is limited to just legacy tech fighting skills and must solve puzzles to get himself out It could be an instanced area where player, whenever attempting to log on, is immediately logged into the "punished" toon- no acces to other servers or toons; no chat with other players; player gets "purgatory" dailies which must be completed in order to progress and get out of- maybe after 72 hours or something Edited January 13, 2015 by Daxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacta Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I did the exploit, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I did the exploit, too. Him:"Because they let Nefra SM/HM get farmed for months and didn't do anything to anyone, even after they fixed it. They never did anything about open win-trading in PVP. And they still haven't done anything about NiM Dashrude. BW doesn't punish exploiting, they just fix the problem and move on." That made sense to me at the time, and, to be honest, my whole group of friends were already doing it and I'd already done it, albeit unknowingly. If they got banned, so would I. And if they did and I didn't, I'd probably quit the game to follow them to whatever game they found to replace SWTOR. So, at that point, I'd exploited already, so why not do it on my other 60s? In for a penny, in for a pound. And I did it again the following week on all my 60s. Again, in for a penny, in for a pound. Well, the consensus was pretty simple: It's not likely that we'll be punished, but if the punishment comes down and it's too severe, we'll just move on. Our collective patience is at an end. But, what we're getting is an inconsistent message. Like it or not, ignoring Nefra and other exploits in the past gave the player base a false impression that they don't care about exploiters. And now, you're dealing with an angry player base who are wondering 'why' this exploit is so deserving of punishment and the assumption that it's because they'd rather focus on the exploiters and not look at the horrendous condition with which this expansion launched in. Simple put, Ravagers was broken before they even launched the expansion and those in charge knew it and it went live anyways. BW has a history of ignoring gear-rewarding exploits. I snipped some, but this is a great post actually....it's hard to snip too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No remorse for cheaters. You knew it was wrong when you did it, man up and take your punishment. Perma ban you think? Make it REALLY bad...and then they'll need to buy SoR again lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes social pressure, don't act like you are some sort of super-human who don't fall for this sort of stuff. There is a whole discipline of sociology and psychology that deals with this issue, so don't just wave your hand as if this is nothing. Underestimating our influence over others' unethical behavior and decisions. New research suggests that to avoid social discomfort, many people will agree to perform a bad deed rather than say no. From a specialized blog on this study: Not everyone gives in to social or peer pressure. Not everyone is uncomfortable with "social discomfort". Some even specialize in bucking social pressures. See.. for a good number of human beings.. ethics and honesty are more important then mutual back scratching and supporting each others sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacta Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Perma ban you think? Make it REALLY bad...and then they'll need to buy SoR again lol Actually I'm not pushing for any punishment in particular, just man up and take whatever it is they give. Permabans would definitely send a strong message to the rest of the community, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyMcNeely Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Stage 3. Bargaining ROFLMAO!!! I just Elizabeth Kubler-Ross'd SOOOO HARD. LOL! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Actually I'm not pushing for any punishment in particular, just man up and take whatever it is they give. Permabans would definitely send a strong message to the rest of the community, however. Agreed!!!! I hope that's what they do...I honestly hope they perma everyone who exploited it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) He says, go get on your main. So I do. He invites me and turns group into a raid group. Says, go to the Ravagers instance and grab the weekly for Ravagers on your way. I say, okay. I get to the Ravagers entrance, he tells me to get the one-time mission, and I do, then he sends me in by myself. Says 'click the shuttle', I do and instant success. I'm amazed. Me: "When did this happen?" Him: "It's been like this since PTS, apparently." Suddenly, I'm terrified of consequences. I just exploited. I didn't realize it, but I realized it afterward. I said as much. "Dude, they're gonna be pissed." Him:"They're not going to do anything, calm down." Me:"How the hell can you be so sure about it?" Him:"Because they let Nefra SM/HM get farmed for months and didn't do anything to anyone, even after they fixed it. They never did anything about open win-trading in PVP. And they still haven't done anything about NiM Dashrude. BW doesn't punish exploiting, they just fix the problem and move on." You took bad advice. You made a mistake. Mistakes do have consequences many times. They have in fact acted on exploiters in the past.. and you know that.. so you accepted a rationalized lie. Did you immediately /destroy the items gained and report the issue to Bioware via a ticket? No? Then no sympathy from me. But hey.. maybe they take your circumstances into consideration, maybe not. Personally, I bet they are gentle with anyone that did it only once.. as the fact that you did not do it again indicates no negative motive to exploit for gain. Then again.. maybe not. 2015 could be the year of the exploiter smack-downs for SWTOR. /shrug. Those that encouraged others to do the exploit.. I bet they strike them hard. Edited January 13, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Agreed!!!! I hope that's what they do...I honestly hope they perma everyone who exploited it. Thats a bit to harsh don't you think? I mean I don't know much about this. but from what ive pieced together all these people did was exploit some way to get expensive mats and gear I think and selling it. Sure its cheating, but its not like they were causing game breaking problems other then a little bit of problems in the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Him:"Because they let Nefra SM/HM get farmed for months and didn't do anything to anyone, even after they fixed it. They never did anything about open win-trading in PVP. And they still haven't done anything about NiM Dashrude. BW doesn't punish exploiting, they just fix the problem and move on."this is the interesting topic. on one hand, bw should be consistent with how it sets precedents and acts on exploits on the other hand, bw's past inaction is a main driver for people to make the decision, in this case, that they should exploit. there needs to be a balance here in my mind. not be too harsh to treat exploiters unfairly considering their history of inaction, but at the same time, demonstrate resolve and give a deterrent to ensure next time, people think twice. bans for 3-7 days is what i expect. most people would take their lumps and keep playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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