Ravagers Exploit Action Update

[Foambreaker]

Even if it was 10% of the playerbase that would be a pretty massive blow. The people who exploited this weren't low-level, F2P accounts just trying out the game.

 

You do realize that all of SWTOR is only one of many games at EA? At the EA accounting level that is probably less than 1%.

 

We do realize that the people who did this are the l33t elite, the people who point at everyone else and label them casuals.

 

All casuals everywhere are lolololol at the exploiters

[Kunovega]

I have seen a few people on here try to give legal advice or try to explain the laws regarding the game and/or product and I have one comment to make about that:

 

May I suggest one thing here, everyone stop giving out legal advice or trying to explain the legal laws. There is a legal ethics rule about that. I would leave the legal advice or the laws to the ones that actually have the qualifications and have passed the bar. (Association)

 

 

(Side note: Thank you for providing an example for me this week as my Legal Ethics class in my paralegal class is regarding this)

 

Association, A. B. (n.d.). MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT. Retrieved January 14, 2015, from Rule 5.5: Unauthorized Practice of Law; Multijurisdictional Practice of Law: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_5_5_unauthorized_practice_of_law_multijurisdictional_practice_of_law.html

 

Now go back to your arguing about what you all think should or should not happen with regard to this issue when BW will make the decision what they will do and all this arguing back and forth between everyone is just creating more drama.

 

I'm not a lawyer but I have friends that are that I've asked about this.

 

From what I can tell it somewhat depends on your state laws.

 

In many states (Notably California) they have laws that will protect you from having a contract cancelled.

 

I do know that I have called both my credit card company and paypal and confirmed that I can have up to 1 year worth of subscription and cartel purchases refunded if my account is banned.

 

If I do that, it would be over $1,000s in refunds. I have 2 friends that have already called and confirmed they can get $4,000 and $8,000 refunds for what they have spent (they buy way more cartel coins than me)

[Danery]

To those who actually believe that Bioware can easily track who went in and did the exploit and track their gear, I doubt you have ever had any experience actually working with Bioware when bosses have bugged and loot failed to be provided. I have. I've had bosses completely disappear on my screen and become unlootable for me. Despite me providing detailed information as to when exactly the boss was beaten, detailed information on who all was in the group, the fact that I received the achievement at that time for defeating the boss, proof that I received no loot and no comms, etc I was told that there was no way to prove that it had actually happened and therefore, I couldnt even get the comms from the downed boss.

 

What are you going to do when people that actually had zero participation in this exploit end up accidentally being punished, having gear revoked or bans issued because bioware makes a mistake and pegs people that never participated? And dont tell me that wont happen. Bioware makes mistakes ALL the time in their content, and yet you trust them to be able to fully ensure only those that actually participated would be punished with losing gear, credits, mats, etc?

 

Furthermore, how should bioware handle those who didnt actually participate in the exploit but have benefited from it either through buying crafted items, having someone in their group that did thus ensuring that their dps is higher and therefore they can get the boss down, etc? Even if someone didnt participate in the exploit, if they ran with anyone that did, they gained an "unfair advantage" because of their higher gear, dps, damage mitigation, whatever you want to call it. And there are people in this thread that admit people in their raid groups and guilds did participate in the exploit. Should those people also be punished since they gained an advantage as well?

[RiVaN_]

Or

 

**blah**

**blah**

**snip**

**blah**

 

not.

 

LadyVix, you seem to be someone of high morals and standards right?

Someone that feels they are honest and decent and good right?

 

Why then are you hiding a referral link that gets you free cratel coins every month, (along with other rewards such as a free speeder and if enough people click it a collection of mini pets) in your signature and calling it a "Free character transfer"? You are so against these people that have "Ravaged the Ravagers" yet you don't have a problem exploiting people in the real world by taking advantage of someones ignorant curiosity so that you get 600 free cartel coins + 100 coins every month they are a subscriber? You are against doing the in game equivalent of what you are doing in real life?

 

Since we aren't allowed to be direct on these forums I'll say "how hypocritical of you". I hope you gather my direct meaning from the passive aggressive way I'm forced to say it to keep a forum moderator from flagging it as an "inappropriate call out"

 

 

SWTOR team do whatever is gonna be done and do it quickly, people are getting out of hand. People are verbally killing each other.

Letting folks vent their frustrations is one thing, but the community is becoming toxic.

You guys need to squash this soon. One way or another, do whatever needs to be done, but you need to make the conversations go away. What is going on in the forums the past week will hurt the game community worse than anything else.

Edited January 14, 2015 by RiVaN_

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I do that, it would be over $1,000s in refunds. I have 2 friends that have already called and confirmed they can get $4,000 and $8,000 refunds for what they have spent (they buy way more cartel coins than me)

 

Interesting ... I always thought that it becomes a contested payment ( for lack of the correct I can't quite think of ) between the vendor and the credit card company and you have to fill out your forms and lay the complaint etc. at which time the credit company then does their investigation etc. which when in contact with BW will lead to the ToS and the evidence you breached it etc. etc.

 

I couldn't see them just refunding it because you say so but hey, I could be wrong. I'm just going off my own dealings with credit card companies and vendors who didn't meet their end of the bargain ( like never supplying the product I ordered at all ) and that was quite an issue to get sorted.

 

I wouldn't see paypal/cc companies going to court over this with BW due to the ToS being fairly rock solid and nor would you take your CC/Paypal company to court over not refunding the income if they chose there wasn't a case to refund on.

 

Either way doesn't effect me because I'm not a cheater like some ( who are looking into refunds in case they get banned, nice inadvertent admission at least ) so don't need go through the hassle but by all means let us know how it goes. Though if you're banned I guess you can't? *shrug*.

[Jimvinny]

Interesting ... I always thought that it becomes a contested payment ( for lack of the correct I can't quite think of ) between the vendor and the credit card company and you have to fill out your forms and lay the complaint etc. at which time the credit company then does their investigation etc. which when in contact with BW will lead to the ToS and the evidence you breached it etc. etc.

 

I couldn't see them just refunding it because you say so but hey, I could be wrong. I'm just going off my own dealings with credit card companies and vendors who didn't meet their end of the bargain ( like never supplying the product I ordered at all ) and that was quite an issue to get sorted.

 

I wouldn't see paypal/cc companies going to court over this with BW due to the ToS being fairly rock solid and nor would you take your CC/Paypal company to court over not refunding the income if they chose there wasn't a case to refund on.

 

Either way doesn't effect me because I'm not a cheater like some ( who are looking into refunds in case they get banned, nice inadvertent admission at least ) so don't need go through the hassle but by all means let us know how it goes. Though if you're banned I guess you can't? *shrug*.

 

You're right. Credit Card companies will investigate contested payments, but as soon as bioware sends them a copy of the TOS, that CC company won't be going to bat for the card holder. No one is getting $8k back because they got banned.

[Max_Killjoy]

It provided unlimited amounts of gear, and materials that take legit raiders to get along time, and you say its not game breaking?

 

Yes. It is not game breaking.

 

Or, in other words -- there are some characters with more gear, and more stuff in circulation... so what?

[MrGoldsilver]

Excuse me if this has already been brought up, i don't want to read through 90 pages.

 

Some questions about this:

 

If it's true that they really can see exactly who did the exploit, does that mean they will start giving loot from bosses that glitched out and don't give anything?

 

Will there be any punishments for people who exploited conquests when it first came out? (there was a bug that let guilds run TC without a lockout, letting them rack up millions of points quickly)

 

Will there be any punishments for people who win trade in Ranked PvP?

 

Will there be punishments for people who rank lv 55 ops for ulti coms? I mean it gives you the same level gear as the exploit, BUT it was any piece (but no set bonus). If they are worries about people gearing up to quickly, this should be included.

 

Will there be punishments for people who accidentally ran the exploit, or did it (before the forum post) in order to alert the devs?

 

If it's true that this bug existed in 3.0 Beta, why wasn't it fixed? Or a message saying "don't do this" released earlier?

 

If not many people used the exploit, why did you bring it up on the forums? did you not know the numbers when you first posted the thread?

 

Why was this specific thread made? you could have quietly punished exploiters without telling everyone, if it was truly a small number of people who did the exploit.

 

Why did it take a month to fix the exploit?

 

That's most of what's on my mind right now...

[XiamaraSimi]

Wow.. just wow... its devolved to "If you temp ban me for cheating i will tell my credit card to get all the money i evah spent here evah back!1!1!"

 

I had to try and get a fradulant charge on my credit card reversed once, and i had to go to my bank and fill out a form saying why it was being done. I personally think having to explain your doing this because you got caught cheating in a video game and are having a tantrum over it would be embarassing as hell... but if cheating doesnt bother you, i guess being embarassed in public doesnt either

 

Its kind if like doing mods to your car that are against the laws of what is street legal, getting a ticket, and trying to sue the car manufacturer because you got in trouble for modifying it...

[Pagy]

Excuse me if this has already been brought up, i don't want to read through 90 pages.

 

Some questions about this:

 

If it's true that they really can see exactly who did the exploit, does that mean they will start giving loot from bosses that glitched out and don't give anything?

 

Will there be any punishments for people who exploited conquests when it first came out? (there was a bug that let guilds run TC without a lockout, letting them rack up millions of points quickly)

 

Will there be any punishments for people who win trade in Ranked PvP?

 

Will there be punishments for people who rank lv 55 ops for ulti coms? I mean it gives you the same level gear as the exploit, BUT it was any piece (but no set bonus). If they are worries about people gearing up to quickly, this should be included.

 

Will there be punishments for people who accidentally ran the exploit, or did it (before the forum post) in order to alert the devs?

 

If it's true that this bug existed in 3.0 Beta, why wasn't it fixed? Or a message saying "don't do this" released earlier?

 

If not many people used the exploit, why did you bring it up on the forums? did you not know the numbers when you first posted the thread?

 

Why was this specific thread made? you could have quietly punished exploiters without telling everyone, if it was truly a small number of people who did the exploit.

 

Why did it take a month to fix the exploit?

 

That's most of what's on my mind right now...

all important questions

 

again, bw contends this was an egregious exploit yet showed no efforts to promptly fix it, despite knowing it was there before launch.

 

hypocrisy alarm!

[Andryah]

You're right. Credit Card companies will investigate contested payments, but as soon as bioware sends them a copy of the TOS, that CC company won't be going to bat for the card holder. No one is getting $8k back because they got banned.

 

Agreed.

 

Some credit card companies, depending on the card you have, may however provide customers in essence some level of warranty. It's a peanut butter good will clause that some credit card companies do to differentiate themselves from their competitors. In other words.. the credit card company eats the cost. The previous poster is likely referring to this (without knowing it), because no credit card company is going to simply reverse charges on services on the word of the customer. They may eat the charges themselves, but that is different then going back and clawing back money from EA.

 

But in reality.... I doubt credit card companies will eat a years subscriber costs, or any CC costs. You might get a refund on your last charge with EA.... but I doubt they will see it as good will, or reasonable, to refund a years subscription costs.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Andryah

[Kunovega]

It provided unlimited amounts of gear, and materials that take legit raiders to get along time, and you say its not game breaking?

 

Obviously you do not know how lockouts in this game work

 

Anyone could have shared this lockout and it would normally have put you in front of the last boss

 

1 kill and you get this loot. thats not a long time

 

Someone had to do the op to get the lock out in the first place, once you had it you normally would be able to give last boss lockout to any number of other characters

 

total time saved for each character that uses this "exploit"? the time it takes to kill 1 boss. thats all.

 

and unlimited items? are you stupid? once you picked up the loot your character was blocked from getting it again for a week. thats not unlimited. thats the same number of times you could have run the op normally

 

the grand total gained by this compared to sharing a normal end boss lockout was simply the time it took to kill that one boss; you could have always skipped the rest of the op by sharing lockouts. you can still do this in every op in the game just as you could have for every op in the past 3 years

 

sharing lockouts is not an exploit, its always been used to skip content and its been used to get coms and complete weeklys since ops have existed

 

the only change from normal lockout sharing and this exploit was the ability to skip 1 additional boss. that is all

 

if you dont understand this, you were never an end game raider or you are just clueless how lockouts have worked for the past 3 years

 

im not saying it didnt need to be fixed; but the reality of the situation is not as dire as some clueless idiots believe it is. the ability to skip 1 additional boss 1 time per week is not "unlimited" and its certainly not as game breaking as the doom sayers are claiming

[Frybert]

Interesting ... I always thought that it becomes a contested payment ( for lack of the correct I can't quite think of ) between the vendor and the credit card company and you have to fill out your forms and lay the complaint etc. at which time the credit company then does their investigation etc. which when in contact with BW will lead to the ToS and the evidence you breached it etc. etc.

 

I couldn't see them just refunding it because you say so but hey, I could be wrong. I'm just going off my own dealings with credit card companies and vendors who didn't meet their end of the bargain ( like never supplying the product I ordered at all ) and that was quite an issue to get sorted.

 

I wouldn't see paypal/cc companies going to court over this with BW due to the ToS being fairly rock solid and nor would you take your CC/Paypal company to court over not refunding the income if they chose there wasn't a case to refund on.

 

Either way doesn't effect me because I'm not a cheater like some ( who are looking into refunds in case they get banned, nice inadvertent admission at least ) so don't need go through the hassle but by all means let us know how it goes. Though if you're banned I guess you can't? *shrug*.

 

For the record, State and Federal laws will trump ToS every time. You can't enter into an illegal contract, which would be any contract that runs contrary to law.

 

That being said, if the person in question is talking about subscription time paid for but not used (say two months into a six month subscription) a lot of jurisdictions (possibly even federal, we have a state law on the issue here, so I've never needed to look at federal) would require BW to refund for the time not yet used. The same could be true of unused cartel coins. On the other hand, if they are talking about a refund for CC already spent on items, or subscription time already used, their case would not be so strong.

[EzraFett]

I'm not a lawyer but I have friends that are that I've asked about this.

 

From what I can tell it somewhat depends on your state laws.

 

In many states (Notably California) they have laws that will protect you from having a contract cancelled.

 

I do know that I have called both my credit card company and paypal and confirmed that I can have up to 1 year worth of subscription and cartel purchases refunded if my account is banned.

 

If I do that, it would be over $1,000s in refunds. I have 2 friends that have already called and confirmed they can get $4,000 and $8,000 refunds for what they have spent (they buy way more cartel coins than me)

 

No you can't

[Nigredo]

No you can't

 

 

i see what you did there ... you went all third grade, priceless +1 for you

[Kunovega]

Agreed.

 

Some credit card companies, depending on the card you have, may however provide customers in essence some level of warranty. It's a peanut butter good will clause that some credit card companies do to differentiate themselves from their competitors. In other words.. the credit card company eats the cost. The previous poster is likely referring to this (without knowing it), because no credit card company is going to simply reverse charges on services on the word of the customer. They may eat the charges themselves, but that is different then going back and clawing back money from EA.

 

But in reality.... I doubt credit card companies will eat a years subscriber costs, or any CC costs. You might get a refund on your last charge with EA.... but I doubt they will see it as good will, or reasonable, to refund a years subscription costs.

 

The credit card company wont eat any of it; its a charge back. EA would eat the costs refunded as well as the credit card charges

 

There are consumer protection laws that govern this, no terms of service will protect a company that willfully discontinues a service that has been paid for

 

I have already called to confirm that my credit card company will in fact refund up to 1 year of any purchases related to SWTOR if they forcibly end a subscription that I've prepaid. Revoking access to digital goods that were paid for (Cartel Coins) also constitutes fraud in the state of CA

 

Mastercard won't lose a penny if they do this, they will force EA to eat all associated costs

 

I have discussed what happens if they refute the refund. Yes I will have to fill out more paperwork; but all EA has to do is admit the truth "yes we closed that account" and I am legally due a refund by CA consumer protection laws

 

EAs TOS does not trump state law, period

 

By the way, call SWTOR customer service if you wish, I have. They know they are at risk to legal action if they start closing accounts. Do you know why they haven't banned anyone yet? They are trying to figure out a loop hole that will let them punish people without having to refund anyone

 

The way it stands now is they may be able to get away with suspending a few characters, so long as they do not ban the entire account.

 

But if they full out ban an account and block services, they are going to lose a ton of money and they know it.

 

Argue all you want over it, but you can look this stuff up for yourself.

[Kunovega]

No you can't

 

consumer protection laws genius, I've already researched CA laws and made the phone calls to confirm it.

 

You just sitting with your thumb shoved up your nether regions making dumb assmuptions?

 

TOS does not protect a company from state consumer protection laws.

[Andryah]

The credit card company wont eat any of it; its a charge back. EA would eat the costs refunded as well as the credit card charges

 

There are consumer protection laws that govern this, no terms of service will protect a company that willfully discontinues a service that has been paid for

 

I have already called to confirm that my credit card company will in fact refund up to 1 year of any purchases related to SWTOR if they forcibly end a subscription that I've prepaid. Revoking access to digital goods that were paid for (Cartel Coins) also constitutes fraud in the state of CA

 

Mastercard won't lose a penny if they do this, they will force EA to eat all associated costs

 

I have discussed what happens if they refute the refund. Yes I will have to fill out more paperwork; but all EA has to do is admit the truth "yes we closed that account" and I am legally due a refund by CA consumer protection laws

 

EAs TOS does not trump state law, period

 

By the way, call SWTOR customer service if you wish, I have. They know they are at risk to legal action if they start closing accounts. Do you know why they haven't banned anyone yet? They are trying to figure out a loop hole that will let them punish people without having to refund anyone

 

The way it stands now is they may be able to get away with suspending a few characters, so long as they do not ban the entire account.

 

But if they full out ban an account and block services, they are going to lose a ton of money and they know it.

 

Argue all you want over it, but you can look this stuff up for yourself.

 

Get back to us when you get your settlement.

 

I live in California and am very familiar with it's consumer protection laws. They are among the best in the world, but they do not permit a consumer to abuse a supplier/company any more then the reverse.

 

If you violate the terms of service, resulting an a ban, you have no legal standing.

 

If they kick you from the game without cause.. you have legal standing, but likely still would not win any settlement because they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone... so you might get your unused sub refunded but that is about it.

 

As for warranty protection, MMOs are fee for service and are accessed "as is". So, you have no standing in California unless you can prove harm. Since it is a virtual service with no tangible property, and all game contents remain the sole ownership of Bioware/EA... you have no standing. In fact, in California you cannot even legally return opened software (under consumer law)..... though some companies will exchange it for you (if defective), most will not refund. Go ahead and test this... buy any piece of software you like from your local Target store in California. Open it, install it, then deinstall it and take it back to the store and see what they do. They will exchange it but they will not refund your money.

 

But don't take my word for it as a life long California consumer. By all means go get yourself actual legal advice from someone in good standing with the CA Bar.

 

Your credit card company is not going to initiate a charge back unless you can prove you have a case. They might however eat the costs to keep you happy... since most of them have customer satisfaction warranties that protect their card holders (there are self funded by the way).

Edited January 15, 2015 by Andryah

[ivanhedgehog]

"They can't afford to ban so many"

 

Myth Debunked

 

not a single gold seller participated...

not a single F2ploader participated.

most preferred didnt participate

only people that purchaser SOR(search of refund) COULD participate

so no, most did not participate...

 

you will notice he never said how many subscribers participated..you know, the guys that spend the most on cartel coins and pay at least $15 a month..Eric is a spokesjawa. he will put thing in the way he was told to. with the spin he is told to. he will not necessarily tell the truth, if he is told not to. he is most likely a nice guy, I dont know him and I doubt you do. But he is not under oath and he will put out sttements that will push the company line.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

1 kill and you get this loot. thats not a long time

 

Someone had to do the op to get the lock out in the first place, once you had it you normally would be able to give last boss lockout to any number of other characters

 

total time saved for each character that uses this "exploit"? the time it takes to kill 1 boss. thats all.

 

Because it is/was just that easy right? HM anyway, you make it sounds like a cakewalk yet had it not been exploited over 99% of those running in 198 gear wouldn't be.

 

and unlimited items? are you stupid? once you picked up the loot your character was blocked from getting it again for a week. thats not unlimited. thats the same number of times you could have run the op normally

 

Whilst unlimited is an exaggeration of sorts perhaps they meant unlimited in the sense the only limit was the amount of level 60 characters you had. That means you undergeared crappy alt toons that are no good for ops can get the gear they would have otherwise never had a chance to get and then share that back to the main or whatever else you want to do with it ( RE etc. ).

 

im not saying it didnt need to be fixed; but the reality of the situation is not as dire as some clueless idiots believe it is. the ability to skip 1 additional boss 1 time per week is not "unlimited" and its certainly not as game breaking as the doom sayers are claiming

 

Based on your vitriol in your post we'll put you in the "cheater and angry got caught doing it" category then?

 

You seem to fail to see the point where the mechanic of actually beating the boss was removed entirely. Not that I bother exploiting the lockout work around either but as I understand it you would have to complete the content with say 15 players with the 16th able to hold open the lockout to bring in another 15 players to TRY beat the boss.

 

In terms of HM I think you would be hard pressed to have found 16 people to begin with let alone bringing in another 15 and basically every single toon everyone who chooses to cheat has at level 60.

 

But by all means down play it and act like the ones thinking you cheaters are in the wrong are the idiots if it helps you sleep at night.

[DawnAskham]

Get back to us when you get your settlement.

 

I live in California and am very familiar with it's consumer protection laws. They are among the best in the world, but they do not permit a consumer to abuse a supplier/company any more then the reverse.

 

If you violate the terms of service, resulting an a ban, you have no legal standing.

 

If they kick you from the game without cause.. you have legal standing, but likely still would not win any settlement because they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone... so you might get your unused sub refunded but that is about it.

 

As for warranty protection, MMOs are fee for service and are accessed "as is". So, you have no standing in California unless you can prove harm. Since it is a virtual service with no tangible property, and all game contents remain the sole ownership of Bioware/EA... you have no standing. In fact, in California you cannot even legally return opened software (under consumer law)..... though some companies will exchange it for you (if defective), most will not refund. Go ahead and test this... buy any piece of software you like from your local Target store in California. Open it, install it, then deinstall it and take it back to the store and see what they do. They will exchange it but they will not refund your money.

 

But don't take my word for it as a life long California consumer. By all means go get yourself actual legal advice from someone in good standing with the CA Bar.

 

Your credit card company is not going to initiate a charge back unless you can prove you have a case. They might however eat the costs to keep you happy... since most of them have customer satisfaction warranties that protect their card holders (there are self funded by the way).

 

A company such as EA can deny service to anyone for any reason.

 

An individual can file a claim (or lawsuit) for any losses or damages incurred as a result of such denial of service.

 

Exactly how any jurisdiction or even the card schemes would handle or resolve such claims are not something anyone on this board can state with certainly or as fact.

 

The most likely scenario would be claims for services paid but not rendered resolved in the favor of the individual, while claims for any kind of other damages (e.g. the 'I spent $500 on CM stuff and want my money back') would be denied.

 

Also the 'if you violate the terms of service, you have no legal standing' is incorrect.

 

The TOS is not law, it is an agreement that has been drafted by attorneys to protect EA from claims, and minimize any potential damages, but it is not infallible.

 

Quite a number of companies have tried to have claims and lawsuits dismissed by using their TOS or EULA as cover, only to have provisions which conflict with actual law thrown out.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

For the record, State and Federal laws will trump ToS every time. You can't enter into an illegal contract, which would be any contract that runs contrary to law.

 

That being said, if the person in question is talking about subscription time paid for but not used (say two months into a six month subscription) a lot of jurisdictions (possibly even federal, we have a state law on the issue here, so I've never needed to look at federal) would require BW to refund for the time not yet used. The same could be true of unused cartel coins. On the other hand, if they are talking about a refund for CC already spent on items, or subscription time already used, their case would not be so strong.

 

Thanks for that information. How though would they though deem the contract to be illegal per se? Like which part of it? If there is a clause stating any use of exploit will result in a ban thus paid time being revoked how is that exactly illegal?

I imagine it's ideally stating that you are provided a product "as is" and this product is to be used in X manner and you need to agree to this if you wish to continue to use this product as it remains the intellectual property of BW/EA thus by exploiting something within their game do you not breach the contract to begin with also?

 

It would be an interesting one to see in court. I would absolutely laugh my *** off if someone punished over this took it to court and we got to read about it. It will never happen of course because people are generally full of hot air when it comes to actually taking action.

[Max_Killjoy]

Based on your vitriol in your post we'll put you in the "cheater and angry got caught doing it" category then?

 

And yet you object to the terms "witch-hunter" and "fanatic" being used to describe a subset of the people calling for punishments.

 

Listen to yourself -- accusing anyone pushes back against the cries of "DOOM" and "GAME RUINING!" and the demands for all who used the exploit to be found and harshly "dealt with", of being one of the cheaters.

 

Salem called, they want their witch trials back.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[XiamaraSimi]

It would be an interesting one to see in court. I would absolutely laugh my *** off if someone punished over this took it to court and we got to read about it. It will never happen of course because people are generally full of hot air when it comes to actually taking action.

 

Agreed, the expressions on the peoples faces in that courtroom would be priceless...

 

"Well you see your honor, it all started when i got caught cheating in a video game..."

Edited January 15, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I have already called to confirm that my credit card company will in fact refund up to 1 year of any purchases related to SWTOR if they forcibly end a subscription that I've prepaid. Revoking access to digital goods that were paid for (Cartel Coins) also constitutes fraud in the state of CA

 

Except as with my above post as I understand it you have broken the terms of the contract you agreed to by exploiting/cheating in the first place.

 

As I see it is no different to products that say "don't tamper with this or you will void your warranty" and you tamper with and then try and get refund/repair under warranty. It happens with gaming consoles that people alter, rooting of cellphones etc. etc. So as I see it by exploiting the game you've breached the ToS in the same manner and given up any legal right you had to a refund etc.

 

Whilst the above poster may be right in that they are liable to pay out any UNUSED game time or unused cartel coins anything already used or spent I cannot seeing coming back.

 

I have discussed what happens if they refute the refund. Yes I will have to fill out more paperwork; but all EA has to do is admit the truth "yes we closed that account" and I am legally due a refund by CA consumer protection laws

 

EAs TOS does not trump state law, period

 

Whilst I don't know your state law I would also wager you are quoting it to suit yourself in this debate. I mean there must be something in there to protect vendors/retailers against dishonest customers. Else we visit the warranty situation again and you do something stupid to your phone and can't use it anymore and they are expected to pay for it? I'm sure there are sub clauses that take those sorts of situations into consideration and it's not quite as white and black as you make out.

 

By the way, call SWTOR customer service if you wish, I have. They know they are at risk to legal action if they start closing accounts. Do you know why they haven't banned anyone yet? They are trying to figure out a loop hole that will let them punish people without having to refund anyone

 

There are so many ways to do this. Remove all illegal gear from everywhere anyone could have possibly hid it including shells they are put in ( that can be an ouch ). This gets us back to basics. Remove all credits the person has across all toons for the actual punishment for cheating. Done. You get angry, you probably quit, no ban, no termination of your game time, you make a choice and try argue somehow that by removing your credits they've breached some contract you already breached by cheating to begin with.

 

Also when we say ban are we talking perm ban or temp ban? The only perm ban most talk of are for those originated this exploit ( a certain guild or two ) else it's mostly a temp ban and if you try get a refund over that ... good luck.

 

consumer protection laws genius, I've already researched CA laws and made the phone calls to confirm it.

 

You just sitting with your thumb shoved up your nether regions making dumb assmuptions?

 

TOS does not protect a company from state consumer protection laws.

 

Hey does anyone else find it utterly hilarious the extra work ( assuming this player is honest, which based on cheating they aren't ) this player has gone to to protect or justify their cheating? It's almost not even worth the effort you went to to begin with since one would you'll almost definitely lose anything you gained to begin with ( if there is any justice at all that will at least occur ).

 

Also I'm imagine the phone calls and withheld s*****rs and laughter the people on the other hand must have been holding back. Did you actually have to say in what would probably a rather angry, self righteous, can do no ill manner "I cheated at Star Wars the Old Republic in breach of their terms of service and Bioware might ban me for it, am I legally protected from this and if so I demand a refund if they do!". I sure do pity some people that have to work in customer service if they have to field calls like that.