Alacrity in PvP?

[Visue]

Anyone given this a try? I swapped out most of my surge rating (down to ~65% now) and even a few wp/power augs for higher alacrity (10-11% base). It has a different feel: less bursty, but faster reactions, shorter cooldowns, and more mobility.

 

I like the faster pace. I seem better able to stay a step ahead of opponents. Warzone damage/healing numbers are good, about the same as they were before. Still, it goes against conventional wisdom, especially in the TK/lightning department. I play all three specs. I wonder if this would hold me back if I were to stay with it. Any thoughts?

Edited January 13, 2015 by Visue

[warstory]

Anyone given this a try? I swapped out most of my surge rating (down to ~65% now) and even a few wp/power augs for higher alacrity (10-11% base). It has a different feel: less bursty, but faster reactions, shorter cooldowns, and more mobility.

 

I like the faster pace. I seem better able to stay a step ahead of opponents. Warzone damage/healing numbers are good, about the same as they were before. Still, it goes against conventional wisdom, especially in the TK/lightning department. I play all three specs. I wonder if this would hold me back if I were to stay with it. Any thoughts?

 

I do pretty well with alacrity, I am still trying to find my sweet spot but the fast pace is fun

[MusicRider]

For ling I wouldn't go that low on surge as blast is an autocrit, storm has a crit bonus, it has quite a few instants, it is highly mobile now, etc. For madness you would benefit more as it is more static now so you want to get that FL out quickly. For healing, not sure, it used to be alacrity for fast innervate channels, but now innervate can be channeled on the move and mend which is an instant usually takes priority.

[thebutthat]

Currently taking 0. Maybe when they fix the interrupt bug on TB it'll be worth taking some alacrity...maybe, but I probably still won't.

[Azurestone]

Currently taking 0. There are good sorcs out there who kept around 2-3% after min/max, which would give a theoretical boost to your DPS, but I personally choose to disregard it because I play mostly solo ranked, so 2% alacrity's DPS boost is barely noticeable in most fights where how hard you hit is way more important than how fast you hit.

[cs_zoltan]

I can't fathom why anyone thinks that critting for a few hunder damage more is better than doing EVERYTHING faster by 5-6%.

 

Stat budget in full ranked gear: 860

 

860 surge = 26.7048228691 %

 

344 surge = 17.5999265175 %

516 alacrity = 6.24115918318 %

 

Let's say TB has a tooltip damage of 3k, then the difference between 860 surge and 344 is 273 damage.

 

Let's take it even further, if every move Lightning has would be autocrit then taking 4/6 split alacrity would be 3% dps loss. But we know Lighting even with it's autocrit TB and Recklessness is pretty *********** far from 100% crit chance. So no, full surge is wrong however you look at it. In case you guys forgot surge has a soft cap around 300 rating, so full surge build is 560 rating deep in diminishing return.

And this is even ignoring the fact that alacrity reduces every cooldown that can save your *** like Force Speed, Static Barrier, Force Barrier etc...

Edited January 26, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[ceazare]

And this is even ignoring the fact that alacrity reduces every cooldown that can save your *** like Force Speed, Static Barrier, Force Barrier etc...

 

Alacrity doesn't affect any of those cooldowns :<

 

I'm running 5 alacrity items atm, but not yet settled on it. I quite like having shorter gcd than others, I can counter easier that way.

Edited January 26, 2015 by ceazare

[cs_zoltan]

Alacrity doesn't affect any of those cooldowns :<

 

Whaaaaaat?

Lying Bioware ****

 

Whatever, alacrity is still better. And you can at least use Resurgence faster and more. It's something.

Edited January 26, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Azurestone]

I can't fathom why anyone thinks that critting for a few hunder damage more is better than doing EVERYTHING faster by 5-6%.

 

Stat budget in full ranked gear: 860

 

860 surge = 26.7048228691 %

 

344 surge = 17.5999265175 %

516 alacrity = 6.24115918318 %

 

Let's say TB has a tooltip damage of 3k, then the difference between 860 surge and 344 is 273 damage.

 

Let's take it even further, if every move Lightning has would be autocrit then taking 4/6 split alacrity would be 3% dps loss. But we know Lighting even with it's autocrit TB and Recklessness is pretty *********** far from 100% crit chance. So no, full surge is wrong however you look at it. In case you guys forgot surge has a soft cap around 300 rating, so full surge build is 560 rating deep in diminishing return.

And this is even ignoring the fact that alacrity reduces every cooldown that can save your *** like Force Speed, Static Barrier, Force Barrier etc...

 

The way I interpret it 5% alacrity means you get on extra GCD every 20 GCDs. In solo ranked, especially 4 DPS matchups, someone is usually dead within 20 GCD.

 

In case there is a healer, let's say that 1 extra GCD is a thundering blast, which hits for 8k tops without a double relic proc, probably lower if you are stacking a bunch of alacrity. In that case I don't think the extra 1 GCD dmg is barely making up for a heavy surge lost.

 

I do believe, that in a long fight, such as regs or grp ranked, alacrity works because it speeds up dot tick and reduces cooldowns. But for solo ranked, which is the majority of PvP I play, I don't see a marginal gain from dumping surge into alacrity.

[cs_zoltan]

The way I interpret it 5% alacrity means you get on extra GCD every 20 GCDs. In solo ranked, especially 4 DPS matchups, someone is usually dead within 20 GCD.

 

You interpret it wrong. You do everything faster, it doesn't matter how long it takes to fit in an extra GCD, the speed is always there. 1% alacrity = 1 dps boost.

Also there's the extrea effect of better reaction buffer with faster gcds and the like...

Edited January 26, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Azurestone]

You interpret it wrong. You do everything faster, it doesn't matter how long it takes to fit in an extra GCD, the speed is always there. 1% alacrity = 1 dps boost.

Also there's the extrea effect of better reaction buffer with faster gcds and the like...

 

Interesting. My surge is a bit too high (78% atm), so I might consider dumping some surge into alacrity.

[cs_zoltan]

About my last point:

Alacrity is simply a "do everything the same, but faster" stat.

 

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Thundering Blast. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

 

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now, and the only reason it isn't used more heavily by DPS is because they are constrained to spend a minimum of 6 item slots on accuracy, leaving them so little stat room that surge (with its excellent low-pool rate of returns) plays the dominate role. Healers have no such constraints, and they get additional benefits out of alacrity (i.e. responsiveness and control). There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.

[warstory]

alacrity is fun u hit super fast but are u going to get off all those attacks? its a trade bwteen hitting hard and hitting fast. high alacrity basicly turns a burst spec into a in madness spec the difference is if u r not attack u are not doing dmg.

[MusicRider]

For pvp it is really situational, if your blast got resisted, dodged, reflected, basically avoided then alacrity would be more beneficial in this case. If you hit then might as well hit hard and with as much burst as possible. Also alacrity tends to benefit longer casts/channels, ling with the exception of storm does not have that many. Of course a bit of alacrity in my opinion is still good... imagine that you and an opponent are two hits away from death, if you have higher alacrity you will be able to fit these two attacks and kill him before he does.

[cs_zoltan]

For pvp it is really situational, if your blast got resisted, dodged, reflected, basically avoided then alacrity would be more beneficial in this case. If you hit then might as well hit hard and with as much burst as possible. Also alacrity tends to benefit longer casts/channels, ling with the exception of storm does not have that many. Of course a bit of alacrity in my opinion is still good... imagine that you and an opponent are two hits away from death, if you have higher alacrity you will be able to fit these two attacks and kill him before he does.

 

If you haven't read my post I tell you that the difference between 344 surge and 860 on a 3k Thundering Blast tooltip damage (I honestly don't know how much that actually is in min-maxed ranked pvp gear because i only have a augmentless healer) is 273 damage (with 4k it's 364 damage). And that's without the 10% I/E damage reduction players have.

If you willing to throw away 6% damage boost and faster reaction time for ~300 damage on Thundering Blast (and even less on the rest) be my guest.

[MusicRider]

If you haven't read my post I tell you that the difference between 344 surge and 860 on a 3k Thundering Blast tooltip damage (I honestly don't know how much that actually is in min-maxed ranked pvp gear because i only have a augmentless healer) is 273 damage (with 4k it's 364 damage). And that's without the 10% I/E damage reduction players have.

If you willing to throw away 6% damage boost and faster reaction time for ~300 damage on Thundering Blast (and even less on the rest) be my guest.

 

No I haven't read your post, or all posts for that matter in detail... but anyway, not sure what your point is as I advise for alacrity... Then again you are giving the numbers of surge translated to damage but you use qualititative terms for alacrity like "faster reaction"... this faster reaction on 6% alacrity for blast which a 1.5s cast is 0.09s reduction, i.e. not even 1/10s. In rough terms you will need to fit 15 attacks to get an extra one... Given how much situational pvp is and although I do advise taking a bit of alacrity, from a practical point of view I wouldn't really pay too much attention to it. Just remove the one accuracy enhancement that exists in the master set and that's it.

[cs_zoltan]

No I haven't read your post, or all posts for that matter in detail... but anyway, not sure what your point is as I advise for alacrity... Then again you are giving the numbers of surge translated to damage but you use qualititative terms for alacrity like "faster reaction"... this faster reaction on 6% alacrity for blast which a 1.5s cast is 0.09s reduction, i.e. not even 1/10s. In rough terms you will need to fit 15 attacks to get an extra one... Given how much situational pvp is and although I do advise taking a bit of alacrity, from a practical point of view I wouldn't really pay too much attention to it. Just remove the one accuracy enhancement that exists in the master set and that's it.

 

Well you should then because I already debunked everything you just said here.

[MusicRider]

Well you should then because I already debunked everything you just said here.

-_-. OK, not sure what you "debunked" as I didn't say the opposite. Not sure what for the hostility either, but never mind, whatever helps you sleep at night... maybe if I ever decide to dust off my sage in TRE you can show me how your optimal stats can help you do more damage .

[cs_zoltan]

-_-. OK, not sure what you "debunked" as I didn't say the opposite. Not sure what for the hostility either, but never mind, whatever helps you sleep at night... maybe if I ever decide to dust off my sage in TRE you can show me how your optimal stats can help you do more damage .

 

You are just too sensitive I think because I didn't mean or said anything hostile.

Edited January 27, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[cs_zoltan]

maybe if I ever decide to dust off my sage in TRE you can show me how your optimal stats can help you do more damage .

 

Also only kids talk like that.

Skill > almost everything else in PVP.

 

But that doesn't mean you should just waste your stats if you can help it.

[MusicRider]

You are just too sensitive I think because I didn't mean or said anything hostile.

 

Using "should" and the need to "debunk everything", especially when both are saying the same thing, is hostile by definition . Also using "too" is negative. I take it you are not native speaker or your english are not up to that level to understand the different meaning of words. No offence taken in the first time, don't worry. I don't really care about a game forum.

[MusicRider]

Also only kids talk like that.

Skill > almost everything else in PVP.

 

But that doesn't mean you should just waste your stats if you can help it.

 

Who is too sensitive now?

 

PS: Glad you agree with me.

Edited January 27, 2015 by MusicRider

[cs_zoltan]

Using "should" and the need to "debunk everything", especially when both are saying the same thing, is hostile by definition .

Since when did "should" become hostile? If you find that hostile maybe you should interact with people more often.

Oh damn I used should again, how inappropriate of me

I didn't have a need to debunk anythig, it was just a fact. Here's an example:

In rough terms you will need to fit 15 attacks to get an extra one... Given how much situational pvp is and although I do advise taking a bit of alacrity, from a practical point of view I wouldn't really pay too much attention to it.

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Thundering Blast. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

 

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now....There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.

 

If you take offence of anything it's hard not to be hostile...

 

I meant maybe you would find it useful to read what was already said instead of repeating things I already countered in some form.

 

Also using "too" is negative. I take it you are not native speaker or your english are not up to that level to understand the different meaning of words. No offence taken in the first time, don't worry. I don't really care about a game forum.

Definitions of too

adverb

to a higher degree than is desirable, permissible, or possible; excessively.

"he was driving too fast"

synonyms: excessively, overly, over, unduly, immoderately, inordinately, unreasonably, extremely, exorbitantly, very, too-too

 

Who is too sensitive now?

 

PS: Glad you agree with me.

There was nothing sensitive about what I said, just facts again.

And I don't agree with you. Beating me in a duel would not make your faulty point of view any more sane...

 

 

Anyway I'm done with you. It seems every time you disagree with me you start with this condescending tone and veiled insults because you can't discuss things like adults...

[MusicRider]

Since when did "should" become hostile? If you find that hostile maybe you should interact with people more often.

Oh damn I used should again, how inappropriate of me

I didn't have a need to debunk anythig, it was just a fact. Here's an example:

 

 

 

If you take offence of anything it's hard not to be hostile...

 

I meant maybe you would find it useful to read what was already said instead of repeating things I already countered in some form.

 

 

Definitions of too

adverb

to a higher degree than is desirable, permissible, or possible; excessively.

"he was driving too fast"

synonyms: excessively, overly, over, unduly, immoderately, inordinately, unreasonably, extremely, exorbitantly, very, too-too

 

 

There was nothing sensitive about what I said, just facts again.

And I don't agree with you. Beating me in a duel would not make your faulty point of view any more sane...

 

 

Anyway I'm done with you. It seems every time you disagree with me you start with this condescending tone and veiled insults because you can't discuss things like adults...

 

Anyway, can't be bothered either kid. Just one last thing, I advised for alacrity, you claim that this is fault while you advise for alacrity. Hmmm, not really much to say after this. You simply love to argue for the sake of arguing, even with yourself it seems, which is kind of concerning but I don't really care. GL&HF.

[TitusOfTides]

I tried full alacrity on my exhumed set and got about 9.75%. Dropped down to 7.45% and I don't even notice a 1/10 second difference, but I expect that the returns on ranked mods might be more noticeable if you go full alacrity.

 

My crit before lucky shots is about 20% and my surge is around 60%. I get auto crits and forcequake crits often enough where its almost always surging anyways.

 

With the focal point buff I get to almost 13%, and with the mental alacrity buff it goes up to 33% (rounding slightly up). This has the potential to be a very high DPS boost. With all of the instant casts we get, the more often you can throw them the better.

Edited January 28, 2015 by TitusOfTides