Low requisition Rampart Videos (Premade vs Premade)

[Drakkolich]

Today I had some awesome Domination matches on Shadowlands. We were a 4 man team queue ing, I myself was on low requisition Rampart for both matches. For more details on the state of my ship as well as a general idea of what our team was using I'll put that at the bottom for those interested.

 

To anyone wondering why players queue in full 4 man premades, games like these are why. These are the games I play for coordinating with my team vs the coordination of the other team. The first game I'm pretty sure is just 4 man teams on both sides. The second game is our 4 man team vs 2 4 man teams (I happen to know Xiao's team only had 4 in voice for the game though).

 

As usual I want to hear about any and every mistake you see me make big or small. Figure out what I could have done better I want to hear what everyone thinks!

 

I hope you enjoy the videos.

 

 

 

 

 

Our 4 man team was Myself, Miria, Aimbot and Dubious.

 

I'm on a Rampart with T4 Heavy lasers, T1 Siesmic, T1 Interdiction, T2 Charged plating, T1 Hyperspace beacon, T3 Deflection armor, T0 Large reactor, T0 Regeneration extender and T0 Range sensors. (Total of 39k requisition spent)

 

Miria is on a Rampart as well with probably 10-20k Requisition spent.

 

Aimbot is on a Mastered Quarrel

 

Dubious just started on the server has pretty much Stock ships.

[Magira]

I'm on a Rampart with T4 Heavy lasers, T1 Siesmic, T1 Interdiction, T2 Charged plating, T1 Hyperspace beacon, T3 Deflection armor, T0 Large reactor, T0 Regeneration extender and T0 Range sensors. (Total of 39k requisition spent)

 

The Rampart is already fully functional. Assault Mode available as laser on T4. My upgrade strategy is exactly the same. Hyperspace Beacon is in the group certainly better, but I develop first the Shield Power Generator. But I've Communication sensor.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Magira

[Magira]

 

To anyone wondering why players queue in full 4 man premades, games like these are why. These are the games I play for coordinating with my team vs the coordination of the other team. The first game I'm pretty sure is just 4 man teams on both sides. The second game is our 4 man team vs 2 4 man teams (I happen to know Xiao's team only had 4 in voice for the game though).

 

Yes, I can understand, this is fun. So it should be. But the reality is different.

[Fractalsponge]

I love that Shadowlands can set up these super tight matches now. I didn't like the 8v8 mesas tdm where your team had 8 gunships though .

 

Some background:

For both domination matches we had one premade on TS. In the 8v8 we had 3 on voice and one not (Treitz). In the 12v12, we had 4 on voice as one team, and 4 others (Treitz, Jake, Xerakon, Reeko) ops grouped with us, but they weren't on TS and basically formed a high quality pug 2nd team (those 4 aren't in our normal groups). If it were a double premade, guaranteed there wouldn't have been open nodes

 

The closest thing I've seen to real double premade vs double premade was that 12v12 mesas domination match where there were 119 ships on the bars - 23 5-ship and 1 4 ship. If we could actually schedule 8-mans in private matches, now that would be something awesome.

 

Both of these matches were close. One thing that we were missing was a beacon bomber on TS in the 8v8. We finally got one on our collective bar for the 12v12, and that was decisive. At one point Drak's 12-man had 3 beacons up all to funnel people to the same node, which was brutal.

 

In the 8v8, we had one beacon set up from the defender at C (not on our 4-man) - this was super useful but we couldn't control it easily; if we had 2 beacons or at least one on TS that would've made it far easier. I probably made a dumb mistake by trying to spam my bomber on to B, rather than standing off and clearing mines/distracting gunships. Dubious did an excellent job the whole match of keeping me tied up when I was in my gunship.

 

Beacon usage is also a really tough choice for a team: sacrifice one of your best scouts/gunships or saddle one of your best bomber pilots with the beacon or what have you.

 

The 12v12 I don't really have much commentary on, except that I apparently am horribly indecisive when gunshipping in domination - can't decide between normal killing/evasion and standing to the death to support an effort on the node. I should probably stick with one.

 

And yes, that Rampart is basically a full ship. More ship types could use that kind of return on investment for requisition, and it's a further argument for giving it to new pilots as one of the starter ships. Well, maybe not charged plating, since you sort of need to know what to do with that...

 

Oh, I'll probably be scarce till later in the week Drak. If you guys play anytime other than nights, roll your Imp toons more, because that side definitely needs it more.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Fractalsponge

[Verain]

I sort of disagree that beacon is a big downside in general. The boy bomber is a great ship, and it is just as capable of shaping the game with skill as the other ships. The problem happens when you don't have enough teammates to fill all the roles- aka, on super serious night we almost always can figure out who should run which bomber (and we normally have multiple bomber archetypes to choose from), but in a situation like those the issue isn't strictly that someone is forced into a bomber, the issue is that the pugs aren't taking that role at all, and are instead using up scout and gunship spaces with strikes or poorly built scouts, hoping that the org group will carry. Which, we did very nicely on the not-outnumbered game

 

I'm kind of shocked that the four group you run with doesn't have at least three boy bombers on the bar by default- being able to field two is an absolute minimum for if you get queued versus a strong team, and you don't want to rely on your pugs for that. I strongly suggest this, and further, you should probably have builds for different scenarios.

 

The real penalty of beacon is that you lack a decent three button. An overcharged boy bomber absolutely wants shield power, and a charged plating bomber can make a lot of use out of interdiction drive, but those are pretty much solo queue only options to me at this point. The benefit of a solid beacon is really important, especially on Denon.

 

 

Those two games were really a lot of fun. Both games had a lot of pinning attacks and counterplay.

 

 

 

The Rampart is already fully functional.

And yes, that Rampart is basically a full ship.

 

I'm not here to QQ about gear, obviously, but it's interesting that you both say this. There is a detectable offensive difference between the maxxed mines and the T1 mines. The big upgrade in that list, is, of course, T4 heavy laser. I feel Drako would be remiss to point out the gearing state, given that it does inform our strategy to a degree, and given how worthwhile it is to point out for the "I've been playing GSF for a year and I can't earn req" complaints that happen a lot- the game is very much playable even without many of the upgrades. Gear will happen soon enough on any given server, of course, and is generally of small concern.

 

 

Yes, I can understand, this is fun. So it should be. But the reality is different.

 

Why are these matches not "the reality"? We went to Bastion later that night to push through weeklies for a couple folks, and those were pretty solid games too.

 

We played for hours yesterday, and had some excellent matches out of it. That's "the reality".

 

 

The 12v12 I don't really have much commentary on, except that I apparently am horribly indecisive when gunshipping in domination - can't decide between normal killing/evasion and standing to the death to support an effort on the node. I should probably stick with one.

 

On Denon, the answer is largely based on what's going on. If there's a beacon available, your death can be fine, or even beneficial if it lets you "teleport" to another hot spot. If you turn and run, will a valuable scout potentially chase you, or will you end up at 25k while enemy bombers take turn playing Hide The Seismic with your scouts? I'd say there's no one right answer, and I'll also say it's very easy to criticize your own calls in hindsight. As long as you are trying to make the correct strategic decision, there's not much more you can do except let the enemies in question impact your decision for future dealings with them.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Verain

[Fractalsponge]

I sort of disagree that beacon is a big downside in general. The boy bomber is a great ship, and it is just as capable of shaping the game with skill as the other ships. The problem happens when you don't have enough teammates to fill all the roles- aka, on super serious night we almost always can figure out who should run which bomber (and we normally have multiple bomber archetypes to choose from), but in a situation like those the issue isn't strictly that someone is forced into a bomber, the issue is that the pugs aren't taking that role at all, and are instead using up scout and gunship spaces with strikes or poorly built scouts, hoping that the org group will carry. Which, we did very nicely on the not-outnumbered game

...

The real penalty of beacon is that you lack a decent three button. An overcharged boy bomber absolutely wants shield power, and a charged plating bomber can make a lot of use out of interdiction drive, but those are pretty much solo queue only options to me at this point. The benefit of a solid beacon is really important, especially on Denon.

 

Apart from the use of "boy bomber" which still annoys me I agree. I don't mean that taking beacon is a poor choice, far from it - I should've been clearer. In a situation when you don't build a team around multiple beacon bombers, the beacon player is more limited in his ability to go out there and DO stuff, for fear of losing that beacon at a bad time. A beacon does limit a single ship's ability a little even on top of the tactical concerns. If you only had a single bomber pilot, you might want him to spec for maximum ability to do other stuff instead. Obviously ideally you'd have a player who like playing bombers and likes guarding nodes take that role, freeing up others, or you run multiple if you have them.

 

I'm kind of shocked that the four group you run with doesn't have at least three boy bombers on the bar by default- being able to field two is an absolute minimum for if you get queued versus a strong team, and you don't want to rely on your pugs for that. I strongly suggest this, and further, you should probably have builds for different scenarios.

 

You're assuming too much organization. My four group is a random selection of who's on at any given time, out of a very variable pool of 8-12 top people. If I were building a team for super serious night or something, I'd absolutely work that stuff out in advance. Builds isn't a problem - I have every possible combination available, and most of the people I fly with do as well, but mostly the bars are from whatever people were running for solo or yolo group queue earlier. We just don't usually have to deal with it. But if this sort of thing becomes regular, then yeah we'll have to adjust for that.

 

Those two games were really a lot of fun. Both games had a lot of pinning attacks and counterplay.

 

Absolutely!

 

I'm not here to QQ about gear, obviously, but it's interesting that you both say this. There is a detectable offensive difference between the maxxed mines and the T1 mines. The big upgrade in that list, is, of course, T4 heavy laser. I feel Drako would be remiss to point out the gearing state, given that it does inform our strategy to a degree, and given how worthwhile it is to point out for the "I've been playing GSF for a year and I can't earn req" complaints that happen a lot- the game is very much playable even without many of the upgrades. Gear will happen soon enough on any given server, of course, and is generally of small concern.

 

I don't want to sound like I begrudge Drak pointing out the gearing. I only meant that the minelayer is essentially complete for its role pretty quickly in the upgrade cycle. It can pierce armor, lay mines on the best cooldown, and lay a beacon. That's all of what it needs to do its job to a large degree of what's required almost all of the time. If anything, I completely agree that this should serve as additional notice that you don't need all that much gear to get the job done.

 

Actually, the more I think about it, the even less gear matters as you approach double-premade vs double-premade. Gear in a 1v1 is huge, but against a lot of coordinated talent, it matters a lot less once you reach certain basic requirements. In TDM, you don't *need* max dogfighting potential on a gunship to stand in a wall and add to the formation. In domination, you're largely adding your body to a big pile on top of the little lines in "=" trying to get it to look like ">". Defensively, against focus from really good players, that you have active cooldowns matter much more than a few % passive bonuses.

[ThutmoseV]

I was in both of those matches as a solo queue and I immensely enjoyed playing in them. When you win, you feel like you have really earned the win,and when you lose you feel like you made the other side really earn the win.

[Drakkolich]

The Rampart is already fully functional. Assault Mode available as laser on T4. My upgrade strategy is exactly the same. Hyperspace Beacon is in the group certainly better, but I develop first the Shield Power Generator. But I've Communication sensor.

 

I hear a lot of people talk about how Hyperspace Beacon is only better in groups and I'm going to have to strongly disagree I actually really like it when I'm solo Queue ing. My biggest reason for that is I can direct the traffic of my team, If you spam "Watch for Beacons" a few times before the match most people use them now. When I'm trying to carry I can Direct my team to one node with a Beacon close to it and then go hold a second one myself. This strategy has won me a lot of games while playing solo.

 

As for the Bomber being fully functional, yes all it's really missing are passive bonus'. None of the upgrades left will change the way you fly the build, just add more health/engines/damage. This is one of the main reasons I like talking about how much gear I have in these Low requisition videos to show what upgrades are really useful.

 

Yes, I can understand, this is fun. So it should be. But the reality is different.

 

I just don't understand what point you're trying to get across here? Are you trying to say our 2 premades should never ever queue as teams because a lot of our matches aren't like this?

 

I love that Shadowlands can set up these super tight matches now. I didn't like the 8v8 mesas tdm where your team had 8 gunships though .

 

Ya those 2 sniper wars games were annoying, it just kind of fell that way though. I mean I had Verain and Aimbot on my team both huge Gunship guys, I was leveling my Gunship that day and I believe we had 2 of our pugs that are dedicated Gunship players like Triamtivere (I'm sure I'm butchering their name). Once we had like 4-5 Gunships, your team started getting on more and more of them and by like 3-4 mins in everyone was on them.

 

 

You're assuming too much organization. My four group is a random selection of who's on at any given time, out of a very variable pool of 8-12 top people. If I were building a team for super serious night or something, I'd absolutely work that stuff out in advance. Builds isn't a problem - I have every possible combination available, and most of the people I fly with do as well, but mostly the bars are from whatever people were running for solo or yolo group queue earlier. We just don't usually have to deal with it. But if this sort of thing becomes regular, then yeah we'll have to adjust for that.

 

I get the thought the process here, however I'm really surprised by this. There's builds that I would never ever take off my bar in case I get into matches like this. This Rampart build is absolutely one of them. Even if this sort of thing wasn't regular wouldn't you want to be ready all the time anyways?

 

 

I'm glad everyone is enjoying the videos!

[Fractalsponge]

I hear a lot of people talk about how Hyperspace Beacon is only better in groups and I'm going to have to strongly disagree I actually really like it when I'm solo Queue ing. My biggest reason for that is I can direct the traffic of my team, If you spam "Watch for Beacons" a few times before the match most people use them now. When I'm trying to carry I can Direct my team to one node with a Beacon close to it and then go hold a second one myself. This strategy has won me a lot of games while playing solo.

...

I get the thought the process here, however I'm really surprised by this. There's builds that I would never ever take off my bar in case I get into matches like this. This Rampart build is absolutely one of them. Even if this sort of thing wasn't regular wouldn't you want to be ready all the time anyways?

 

Here's my thinking on this, and it may be idiosyncratic to me or the server.

 

I'll always have Mangler, Sting, Razorwire, Bloodmark, and an open spot on my bar. Razorwire is my domination ship.

 

I draw a lot of attention, and I solo queue a lot. Flying on (on average) the weaker side means I'm also carrying a lot. Most matches aren't like our premade matches. Usually it's me and a few good pilots carrying a big trail of newbies. I have very little faith in the ability of most 2-3 shippers to take defended nodes, regardless of beacon. That means it's down to me to get stuff done. To do so, I need to be able to get on the node. Charged plating and no support plus name recognition means that the shield bleedthrough on CP is literally killer. Either I waste all my time LOSing gunships without getting to the node or I die reaching it, and CP is not going to help me. That's why I usually run an overcharge shield/engine to shield minelayer, since even if it isn't as good on the node I'm at least avoiding as much hull attrition as I can getting there, and in many matches I'll trade potentially useless or nonexistent supporters on the node for a guaranteed durability boost when *I* am on the node.

 

On a good team, yeah, CP/beacon, no problem. But it's infrequent enough that I usually run the less risky and less specialized build. Plenty of the guys I run with swear by CP/beacon bombers though.

[Drakkolich]

Here's my thinking on this, and it may be idiosyncratic to me or the server.

 

I'll always have Mangler, Sting, Razorwire, Bloodmark, and an open spot on my bar. Razorwire is my domination ship.

 

I draw a lot of attention, and I solo queue a lot. Flying on (on average) the weaker side means I'm also carrying a lot. Most matches aren't like our premade matches. Usually it's me and a few good pilots carrying a big trail of newbies. I have very little faith in the ability of most 2-3 shippers to take defended nodes, regardless of beacon. That means it's down to me to get stuff done. To do so, I need to be able to get on the node. Charged plating and no support plus name recognition means that the shield bleedthrough on CP is literally killer. Either I waste all my time LOSing gunships without getting to the node or I die reaching it, and CP is not going to help me. That's why I usually run an overcharge shield/engine to shield minelayer, since even if it isn't as good on the node I'm at least avoiding as much hull attrition as I can getting there, and in many matches I'll trade potentially useless or nonexistent supporters on the node for a guaranteed durability boost when *I* am on the node.

 

On a good team, yeah, CP/beacon, no problem. But it's infrequent enough that I usually run the less risky and less specialized build. Plenty of the guys I run with swear by CP/beacon bombers though.

 

The interesting part here is you are running a specialized build. We use this exact build as the Anti Scout Bomber. I'm pretty sure you are running Concussion/Siesmic mines as well. Like you said the build you use is tankier vs everything that has armor penetration and with the two highest hull damage mines that's why we use it as the counter to Scouts.

 

The problem with the build is it just gets flat out destroyed by the Charged plating/Interdiction mine build. So if the enemy team isn't running that Bomber then ya yours is probably the best bet. I also haven't found a single republic player that plays it yet so that could be why. I am however teaching a few now. ^^

[Pujaradactyl]

Good matches I was on Corteck (low req ships) and Avrenis (maxxed ships) during those matches yesterday. Glad to see some more competition....

Although I do hold a grudge for that match where you rolled 6 to 8 GS's for a decent portion of the match

I assume that was a troll (

Not QQ'ing. It was hard to fight that team and I seriously have to think about how to counter.

http://imgur.com/JDqwFNq

 

http://imgur.com/u1RIOrz

 

Overall, good games that were tough. Those beacons were annoying to deal with!

[Drakkolich]

Good matches I was on Corteck (low req ships) and Avrenis (maxxed ships) during those matches yesterday. Glad to see some more competition....

Although I do hold a grudge for that match where you rolled 6 to 8 GS's for a decent portion of the match

I assume that was a troll (

Not QQ'ing. It was hard to fight that team and I seriously have to think about how to counter.

http://imgur.com/JDqwFNq

 

http://imgur.com/u1RIOrz

 

Overall, good games that were tough. Those beacons were annoying to deal with!

 

The all gunship games we played yesterday I think just had a lot to do with who was Queue ing. I know Triamterene and Tishana play a lot of Gunship from what I've seen. I myself was playing Gunship in all my TDM's that day just to get as much req on it as possible. Aimbot only plays Gunship and Dubious plays a lot of Gunship normally. I think the others just kind of had to follow suit once we already had so many Gunships on both sides.

 

However your second screenshot from early on in the game shows how this all happened. Your team was compoased of 4 Gunships 3 Scouts and a Bomber in the early screenshot. Our team is 6 Gunships 1 Scout and a Bomber. I specifically told Ranah to play that Warcarrier at the start of the match because I knew that Scouts + Gunships beats all Gunships. However Gunships with Bomber support is impossible for Scouts to break.

 

The correct counter to Gunships + Bombers is All Gunships, which your team gravitated too but didn't commit fully, you guys kept 2 Scouts and a Bomber. With only 2 Scouts and a useless Bomber our extra Scout and Bomber just jumped on Gunships too, so that we would outnumber you guys.

 

Had your team swaped to 8 Gunships I would have been spamming for 4 of us to swap to Evasion Scouts. It was just the right strategical counter play, had nothing to do with trolling.

 

I explain the current meta really well in this thread, I hope that helps soothe your grudge.

[DarthToddy]

Kinda impossible to tell the team to go all 8 gunships when only 4 people were on TS and the other 4 are random ques! One premade versus 2 premades that work well together should win 99% of the time don't ya think? regardless of ships and upgrades......skilled pilots on half and lowly upgraded ships will beat an average player on fully upgraded ships, and skilled pilots on their fully upgraded best ship are tough for anyone to beat!! Edited January 13, 2015 by DarthToddy

[Drakkolich]

Kinda impossible to tell the team to go all 8 gunships when only 4 people were on TS and the other 4 are random ques! One premade versus 2 premades that work well together should win 99% of the time don't ya think? regardless of ships and upgrades......skilled pilots on half and lowly upgraded ships will beat an average player on fully upgraded ships, and skilled pilots on their fully upgraded best ship are tough for anyone to beat!!

 

Oh in the deathmatch game I think you missread what I was saying. I spammed in Ops chat for the strategies, we weren't queue ing with them or anything. If they were another premade thats cool, and no 2 premades don't always beat 1 premade. We proved that on the 2 Super Serious Nights we've had on bastion.

 

I actually have a video where my 4 man team and 8 pugs, defeat 3 4 man premades all in voice.

 

[Keebus]

you the man dude. you have kindled my love for the hyperspace beacon.

also, i got a job on the 24th (legit) so, will miss super-serious day . catch u on stock night if u there bud.

[DarthToddy]

Then drak the people you were playing must not have been skilled pilots or you had very good 8 pugs, those were good fights you posted w/ Xi and crew, but those aren't his best pilots he would like to choose from!! But skilled pilot premades can beat other premades of less skilled pilots.....I think most would agree, not many pilots as deverse as you play and can play most all ships at a high level, a lot of high scores are being produced by speciality pilots

[Drakkolich]

Then drak the people you were playing must not have been skilled pilots or you had very good 8 pugs, those were good fights you posted w/ Xi and crew, but those aren't his best pilots he would like to choose from!! But skilled pilot premades can beat other premades of less skilled pilots.....I think most would agree, not many pilots as deverse as you play and can play most all ships at a high level, a lot of high scores are being produced by speciality pilots

 

I can't really argue with you saying "The better team wins".

 

I'm not sure what else you're trying to say with "those aren't his best pilots he would like to choose from". I don't think anyone has said anything for you to get defensive about. I'm not going around yelling I beat Xiao's best team with no upgrades and without my best team. I just like explaining the situation that's going on in my videos. It's mostly for players trying to learn the ship I'm flying in said videos.

 

I hope that clears whatever you're confused about up, if not let me know.

[Verain]

As for gunships, I was worried we were going to lose that match because the best team we could field was gunships- and that's not the correct team versus that field. In that particular match, you'll hear me fretting that I don't have enough of a girl bomber yet to run support, nor do we have the requisite scouts to deroost the gunships. When the other team switched to gunships (fighting fire with fire, instead of water), I was happy.

 

So while we did win with a bunch of gunships (the pugs helped with theirs!), that wasn't the ideal strategy- it was just the only one we had available.

 

We made it work, so, that's good

Edited January 13, 2015 by Verain

[Verain]

Then drak the people you were playing must not have been skilled pilots

 

The video he links has the following players on the enemy team:

Jaret/Kalph/MMORPG/Tune/Pulcher/Zavul/Kara, plus others.

 

So while we were able to pull a win out, it's highly ludicrous to imply that we were farming some beeshes or whatever. These are all solid players.

 

I think that may be the only one with only one premade versus three- Drako pulled that out to show a point about premades not always winning. There's plenty with other assortments in there.

 

 

 

 

those were good fights you posted w/ Xi and crew, but those aren't his best pilots he would like to choose from!!

 

Sure, of course not. No one was claiming that, just that these were ludicrously good games with some skilled pilots. I could imagine a more stacked team for us as well, we could play that game all night. There's no ranked here, the fact that the game offers reasonable frenetic gameplay is a big part of the charm.

[RickDagles]

I think Dotty has a point, the pubs definitely have the better players there. When I think of the best gunships players in the world the names Xi'ao, Verain, Aimbot, Drak, and Triamterene are certainly in the top 10. Tsukiyomi and Xiayou (sorry spelling) are the only other contenders I can think of. And then you add in Vexxial's absurd ninja dogfighting Condor into the mix and it's easy to see why Pubs won. Tishana and Phaeton are also great all-around pilots that can play just about anything (including Vomit Breaker lol). I'm assuming Verain is either Dubious or Ranah because I don't recognize those names. Edited January 13, 2015 by RickDagles

[Drakkolich]

I think Dotty has a point, the pubs definitely have the better players there. When I think of the best gunships players in the world the names Xi'ao, Verain, Aimbot, Drak, and Triamterene are certainly in the top 10. Tsukiyomi and Xiayou (sorry spelling) are the only other contenders I can think of. And then you add in Vexxial's absurd ninja dogfighting Condor into the mix and it's easy to see why Pubs won. Tishana and Phaeton are also great all-around pilots that can play just about anything. I'm assuming Verain is either Dubious or Ranah because I don't recognize those names.

 

Verain is Miria and wasn't even in that game. Dubious is Zen, from Bastion.

 

I'd also like to point out no one but Dotty was talking about player calibur. ( I think )

I know I was just talking about strategies and how we ended up with 8 Gunships on our team.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Drakkolich

[RickDagles]

You're right, I got a little sidetracked from the OP.

 

One thing this post has made me aware of is that the meta is interesting because it is always shifting. 7 gunships and one bomber would actually lose to 8 well played gunships because healing doesn't make up for losing out on (potentially) 1760+ DPS. And obviously drones and mines are useless when the battle is limited only by the 15000m range. It might actually be in the 8 gunships' best interest to ignore that bomber so that he can't respawn as a gunship.

 

It would be really cool to eventually see all of the hardcore GSF players congregating on one permanent server. If 8-12 man premades became a regular occurrence it might actually change the meta eventually. Could scouts become a niche build in deathmatch? It seems like Clarion might be a less risky GS-pusher than a scout in these games since it can heal on command and maybe lure in GS trying to finish off the kill. That proton with 12500m range has got to be a nuisance. I know it was pretty effective at deroosting GS when I used it in a similar type of premade on kuat mesas a few weeks ago.

 

How many of us can say we've consistantly played in 8v8 or 12v12 premades like this? Most of the time our strategies account for the random PUGs that go into the bomber/gunship ball and feed the other team kills. Or they account for our TT/Quad/Pod scouts to be able to rack up 80k+ damage by farming PUGs.

Edited January 13, 2015 by RickDagles

[Verain]

gunships and one bomber would actually lose to 8 well played gunships because healing doesn't make up for losing out on (potentially) 1760+ DPS.

 

A mix of bombers and gunships is assuredly faced by monogunship. But just one? The bomber isn't a repair drone, and how on earth do you get to 1760 dps? Are we talking some gunship that doesn't need to charge their shots? Because even if you had infinite energy and were shooting a wall, you'd top out at around 500 dps. That's not potentially either, that's target dummy plus infinite regen.

 

Ship diversity brings a lot of important details. A bomber can deploy a drone that ignores evasion, as well as lock a missile which requires the use of a cooldown. The bomber can also be meaningfully struck and survive. I would personally pick 7 gunships and a bomber over 8 gunships, but that's also not what I said. The ideal fight versus a bunch of gunships is a mix of gunships and scouts, with maybe one bomber to help a bit.

 

It might actually be in the 8 gunships' best interest to ignore that bomber so that he can't respawn as a gunship.

 

You'd let a bomber chain concussion lock you and poop drones? Those things take just TONS of mana to kill, and of course it all costs precious roost time. I really do think you are putting down the benefits here.

 

It would be really cool to eventually see all of the hardcore GSF players congregating on one permanent server.

 

We have the super serious nights on Bastion, but I really don't think you'll see everyone roll to any given place with most of their play time. Mastered ships for super serious night? Definitely. But everyone has reasons to be on their home servers most of the time.

 

 

If 8-12 man premades became a regular occurrence it might actually change the meta eventually. Could scouts become a niche build in deathmatch?

 

Good grief no lol. Scouts are vastly too powerful. You're concerned about gunships, and scouts eat gunships.

 

It seems like Clarion might be a less risky GS-pusher than a scout in these games since it can heal on command and maybe lure in GS trying to finish off the kill.

 

Clarion is definitely better in 12v12 than 8v8, and definitely better when the rest of your team is good. You'd probably want two Clarion pilots, one with the charged build and one with directionals, more if you actually wanted to field more than one Clarion at a time.

 

 

I know it was pretty effective at deroosting GS when I used it in a similar type of premade on kuat mesas a few weeks ago.

 

My problem is that it doesn't always get the deroost. Were you shooting at disto gunships, or builds using feedback/fortress? Clarion absolutely SHREDS those builds in my experience, but versus the standard disto gunship you need to close to quad range to actually get him deroosted. Still absolutely possible, however. I really do feel the Clarion is underrated, especially at this.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Verain

[Lavaar]

The 8v8 game in question was recorded and is available for the public to view and scrutinize from our point of view. The purpose of fielding so many gunships was not to antagonize or demoralize our opponents. I can speak with a great deal of confidence when I say that this is not the way that drakkolich, myself, and anyone on our team during that match approaches GSF. Berating and demoralizing our opponents is not why we have continued to play for as long as we have. The decision to roll gunships was not dictated by the team, instead, our players individually recognized a tactical advantage in doing so, and independently chose to pursue that avenue of approach.

 

However, the negative attitudes I see regarding these ship choices brings me to another point I would like to address, the phenomenon known as "gunship shaming". We all know what this is, and while some people will lament the constant forum threads screaming "nerf gunships!" these same folks won't hesitate to let their feelings be known the moment this strategy is used against them. Gunships are vulnerable, and to fly one requires an acute situational awareness and quick responses when you will inevitably be targeted. To imply that using gunships is "cheap" is simply admitting that the opponents were unwilling to field a proper counter to that strategy.

[Magira]

I hear a lot of people talk about how Hyperspace Beacon is only better in groups and I'm going to have to strongly disagree I actually really like it when I'm solo Queue ing. My biggest reason for that is I can direct the traffic of my team, If you spam "Watch for Beacons" a few times before the match most people use them now. When I'm trying to carry I can Direct my team to one node with a Beacon close to it and then go hold a second one myself. This strategy has won me a lot of games while playing solo.

 

Well, my "problem" with the beacon is not so much the lack of defensive but mobility. Taking the Beacon NOT and certainly no Interdiction gives me the opportunity to come quickly to another satellite, where I'm needed. With Beacon energy is not enough, I must go to stop and wait. In a PUG game can be the key. And yes, the beacon itself can be readily used in the solo game, no question. Very close decision, no doubt.