Xinika Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Dear Bioware, As a long time player of your game, many of us have been through the tedious gearing model for years and for the most part, tolerated it. However, it is 2015 and I would hope that you are planning to evolve past the oudated model you are currently supporting. Let's get these aspects out of the way \\ Gearing is necessary in an MMORPG and should not be removed.Gearing gives a feeling of progression to players.Gearing for PvP gear disallows PvE'rs from entering and dominating without working for their coin These intentions are fine for the game type we are playing. However, the min / maxing concept is a dead horse. It serves no purpose in PvP but to empower some specs and classes more than they deserve. Therefore, balance is actually hindered by allowing player to achieve ridiculous levels of stats from min / maxing which goes further to throw the balance out of whack. As a matter of fact, the PvP balance can be more controlled without touching PvE just by modifying what kind of stats on PvP gear we are allowed to get. So what's the idea here? \\ Many hardcore PvPers wanted PvP gear flat out removed while many casuals argued the opposite. This is a middle ground. By removing min / maxing, you are allowing new or returning players to catch up quicker. The progression remains, sure, but it will not be as mandatory and grindy with more focus on the combat itself. Although artificial, you can control certain classes from getting out of control with what is available on their gear. For example, class X warrants no nerf in PvE but in PvP they are absurdly overpowered. Well, that class has to use PvP gear to succeed in PvP, does it not? So why not control it there instead of affecting a mode that warrants no punishment because of its counterpart? \\ Remove all optional mods and enhancements from vendors. This no longer serves a purpose beyond a tedious grind that is exceptionally unappealing. By now, gear implementation should feature stats focused toward that X class' needs with a healthy stat balance between all specs. Disallow X class to purchase Z class' gear. This also goes to keep players from achieving higher stat caps and allows you to keep your PvP game in better check.Make mods and enhancements part specific. A chest mod or chest enhancement should be a chest mod or chest enhancement only for example. This goes to lessen the grind and the unnecessary min / maxing which should be built in naturally.Only allow stat differences in implants and ear pieces. If players wish to go for the higher gain, then it should be a marginal difference through these minor off pieces. Not the dramatic difference we see now.Fix Bolster. No, I mean really, fix bolster. It is not only embarrassing but laughable at the fact that nearly anything can affect and bug bolster. What's next? Companion gear? Seriously, get this together. Years of this buggy system is unacceptable and yes, bolster deeply disturbs balance horribly. \\ It can be argued that this idea can be improved and believe me, it certainly can. The concept is to reduce this unnecessary grind, achieve a healthier state of PvP balance and welcome new and or returning players without a bitter taste of bile in their mouths from a tedious grind when in reality, PvP players simply want to play. They want others to have the gear capable to challenge themselves. I'd argue that PvP gear shouldn't even be able to receive augments but that can be argued indeed. The suggestions above do not counteract your idea on gear progression. It only makes it more achievable and fair. Edited January 9, 2015 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamikazeNaruto Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Agreed, I think they have the concept of min/maxing there as a cheap attempt to keep people playing even longer. It took me roughly 3 weeks to grind min/max gear and that was playing ranked most of the time on top of playing like 8-12 hrs per day. Not to mention the BiS for my implants are Force Master's implants(Sorc Implants) When I am a sin, but it has always been like that. And yeah, bolster has definitely been screwed up since it's inception. Bioware made that more complex than it needed to be. I saw a certain person whose name I can't remember make a suggestion that sounded very good quite a few times in this forum section when it came to bolster. He suggested simply having all PvE gear be scaled a tier down from Recruit gear in Warzones/Arenas. Seems pretty simple no? Anyway, some hilarious things have been seen because of min/maxing, such as smash juggernauts who can make their gear full power and hit people for a ridiculous amount of damage. Edited January 9, 2015 by NamikazeNaruto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Disallow X class to purchase Z class' gear. I don't like you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schooch Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Very interesting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moombahcore Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If they would just fix ability delay, the framerate issues in warzones, and bolster. I would be soooo happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Pretty good thoughts here. I gotta say...i am liking what i read. Would like to hear some attempts to pick this apart. Anyone have any down sides? (Valid ones only please ) I dont see anything too bad coming from this, seems like a sound plan and very doable. I say kudos to the O.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 They also had separate PVE/PVP set bonuses that they could've use as an extra layer of balance between the 2 game type. Never actually used it...They are too lazy for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Meh I wouldn't complain if they changed it to what op stated, but I like it better they way it is. I don't like the stock stats the gear gives. If they want to make min/max more available to more people they should just make the other mods and especially enhancements cheaper. I like having those because you are able to test out different stat priorities. For example: you can test alacrity after they said it's been improved (for the second time) to see if it's worth it. Some people like more crit. Some like more power. Etc. It gives at least a little bit of variability. I'd say fixing bolster would be good enough. And I wouldn't be able to purchase my BIS earpiece. Also, what if I wanted to put PVP gear on my companion? Some people do that, but they often require different main stat than your toon. I just like it better the way it is. Just make the other enhancements and mods cheaper. Edited January 9, 2015 by Saikochoro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dampeer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 i would be ok with this if they took out the min maxing for regular warzone comm gear. for the casual player or just to have for alts. but i would say keep the min maxing mechanic in the game for RANKED gear. that way if you want to play serious and play ranked you would still have to spend the effort on your gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zez-Kai-Ell Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Would be better decreasing the price of gear, i still remember when ranked gear armor was 2000 ranked and not 2500, and ench were 1500, ranked gear is too expensive. And the point on get individual ench is to make dif sets: like tank for guarding people or and a mitigation build not for guardian but for long duration. Or should we back to the time were we were buying an entire armor piece just for one mod or enc specific? Bolster? yeasy get rid of it, put recruit with same amount as a full pvp gear to survive longer but ofc cant have same dps power. In the end the truth is there is no other mmo so gear friendly like swtor but you cant please everyone Edited January 9, 2015 by Zez-Kai-Ell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zez-Kai-Ell Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Meh I wouldn't complain if they changed it to what op stated, but I like it better they way it is. I don't like the stock stats the gear gives. If they want to make min/max more available to more people they should just make the other mods and especially enhancements cheaper. I like having those because you are able to test out different stat priorities. For example: you can test alacrity after they said it's been improved (for the second time) to see if it's worth it. Some people like more crit. Some like more power. Etc. It gives at least a little bit of variability. I'd say fixing bolster would be good enough. And I wouldn't be able to purchase my BIS earpiece. Also, what if I wanted to put PVP gear on my companion? Some people do that, but they often require different main stat than your toon. I just like it better the way it is. Just make the other enhancements and mods cheaper. Like you said, each one build his char according their playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Meh I wouldn't complain if they changed it to what op stated, but I like it better they way it is. I don't like the stock stats the gear gives. If they want to make min/max more available to more people they should just make the other mods and especially enhancements cheaper. I like having those because you are able to test out different stat priorities. For example: you can test alacrity after they said it's been improved (for the second time) to see if it's worth it. Some people like more crit. Some like more power. Etc. It gives at least a little bit of variability. I'd say fixing bolster would be good enough. And I wouldn't be able to purchase my BIS earpiece. Also, what if I wanted to put PVP gear on my companion? Some people do that, but they often require different main stat than your toon. I just like it better the way it is. Just make the other enhancements and mods cheaper. The variability is what makes class balance a more complex issue. There are classes right now that are seemingly overtuned in PvP but in PvE they are perfectly fine. What's the difference? Gear / stats. We take out the unnecessary complications, although it lessens variability and you have better balance. Wouldn't you prefer that? but i would say keep the min maxing mechanic in the game for RANKED gear. that way if you want to play serious and play ranked you would still have to spend the effort on your gear That still doesn't do much to address one of the main issues which is class balance in PvP and not PvE. Again, I know it will be less customization but the greater good outweighs the losses tenfold, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilk Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) So, they remove any type of choice we have in our specs, and now you want them to remove any type of choice we have in our gear? And you KNOW it's not just stats that are affecting class balance?Right? Riiiight? Things like defensives play a huge role that you seem to be forgetting. Some classes have flat out better defenses and utilities. Taking away stat choice won't change that. And it's not a step in the right direction. But yes, lets casualize the game even further. It's not like they aren't already heading in that direction. Bioware, don't do this. Edited January 9, 2015 by Devilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) If they removed pvp specific gear I would probably run more raids instead of wasting my time in warzones. Which is a good thing for the game. They could make it up with other pvp specific perks. Or just make both methods a feasable way to grind gear. As for now I do not nor do I plan to run anymore flashpoints or raids and consider them a waste of time since I am only interested in PVP gear. And please get rid of bolster. I hate it. It has failed ever since it was introduced. Edited January 9, 2015 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 And you KNOW it's not just stats that are affecting class balance?Right? No, but it complicates the formula, making PvP balance worse. It's not casualization, it's simply evolving the system. Growing does not mean complicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puzzle_maniak_a Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Gear customization is fine, what I'd like to see: -lowering rating needed for each % on alacrity and critical (especially alacrity) -removing surge from the game, and giving giving each spec bonus 20% extra crit dmg/heal to crucial abilities -instead of surge reworking certain mechanics, adding rating similar to WoW's mastery, it'd increase dmg on DoT's, give splash heal, or extra strike like Forked Lightning etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedImage Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 So, they remove any type of choice we have in our specs, and now you want them to remove any type of choice we have in our gear? I think you are being a little dramatic here..... You absolutely have plenty of choices to make within your spec. You make a "choice" for your advanced class. Then you must make the "choices" of which skills round out your spec, since you certainly can't select them all. Hence you must make choices. Then as already stated, you can choose among a few variable implants and ear pieces. What more do you need? Wouldn't spec performance mean more to you....and..I dunno, everyone, over choosing a few armor pieces? I must say, I believe minimizing the variables is the only way we will see a greater amount of balance. Choice is nice, it simply isn't always the most beneficial way. I think the O.P. is on the right track here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 So what happens if within a class 1 dps spec is OP and the other is UP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 So what happens if within a class 1 dps spec is OP and the other is UP? It might be a problem beyond gear. Depends on the class / spec. We can't expect the gear changes I suggested to magically fix everything. It won't. It is, however, a step in the direction to achieve a better balance. Keep in mind gear can make or break certain specs and classes. I point to old Infiltration for example. Without its PvP 4 piece set bonus, it was 'meh' at best. After it, it became a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 So just for me to be clear are you suggesting that for everyone's favorite OP spec right now, Hatred, the stats on their gear would be lower than the stats on say a DPS Mercs gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It might be a problem beyond gear. Depends on the class / spec. We can't expect the gear changes I suggested to magically fix everything. It won't. It is, however, a step in the direction to achieve a better balance. Keep in mind gear can make or break certain specs and classes. I point to old Infiltration for example. Without its PvP 4 piece set bonus, it was 'meh' at best. After it, it became a monster. It seems to me that while it could flawlessly fix some problems, but in the meantime tremendously overblown another. I'll make a quick example, let's say 5 = balanced, 0 = underpowered, 10 = overpowered. (these are made up stats, not reflective of reality) Deception: PVE: 5, PVP: 3, Hatred: PVE: 5, PVP: 7. So now you'd need to nerf assassin gear by 2 or 1 to bring Hatred inline. But then Decpetion will be really underpowered so you gotta buff it back to balanced state: Deception: PVE: 9/8, PVP: 5, Hatred: PVE: 5, PVP: 5/6. While just doing the usual nerf/buff route: Deception: PVE: 6, PVP: 4, Hatred: PVE: 4, PVP: 6. Which one you think is closer to balance is subjective, but I'd prefer the later. PS: If you meant something else or I'm missing something then point it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The variability is what makes class balance a more complex issue. There are classes right now that are seemingly overtuned in PvP but in PvE they are perfectly fine. What's the difference? Gear / stats. We take out the unnecessary complications, although it lessens variability and you have better balance. Wouldn't you prefer that? That still doesn't do much to address one of the main issues which is class balance in PvP and not PvE. Again, I know it will be less customization but the greater good outweighs the losses tenfold, imho. I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. First off, different gear stats are not what is making some classes over perform. That is just completely untrue. Hatred would still over perform with your suggestion as an example. Second, everyone is able to min/max if they want to so all in all gear stats are something of equality whereas classes are not. I can just simply decide to be a pt on my mara. Everyone can min/max if they want to. It just takes some longer than others. Third, stock PVP gear stats are different among classes and specs. They are not equal. IMO your suggestion would make things worse. Not a personal attack or anything....I just completely disagree with you on this point. But like I said I will still PVP either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroyoshi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Many hardcore PvPers wanted PvP gear flat out removed while many casuals argued the opposite. no This no longer serves a purpose beyond a tedious grind that is exceptionally unappealing. By now, gear implementation should feature stats focused toward that X class' needs with a healthy stat balance between all specs. why dont you go play heroes of the storm or something if you dont like grinding grinding is important for mmos its not the most glamorous things but it extends the life of the game Edited January 9, 2015 by nitroyoshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 why dont you go play heroes of the storm or something if you dont like grinding grinding is important for mmos its not the most glamorous things but it extends the life of the game That's subjective. It's not like after I get BiS PVP gear I'm just like "Well that's it then, no more pvp on this alt"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arinbatastini Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 One way to make PVP gear more balanced is for it to be free. Yup. Free. Let people just select whatever they want and get full expertise. Let them go crazy. Free pvp only armor, mods, enhancements and augments. Let them decide what their best stats are. Let the same gear be available at ALL lvls, not just lvl 60 and make it only useful in pvp. Don't let someone balance your character for you. They mess it up. Look at the stock gear as it is now? Everyone could enter pvp and compete on skill alone. Don't fix bolster. Just get rid of it. Everyone gets whatever gear they like regardless of level. Then have special armor shells, weapons, crystals, mounts, decorations, titles, etc. for pvp comms or valor levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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