regarding punishment for exploit

[ivanhedgehog]

Banning every end game player that exists would likely kill end game. However, the game itself would likely not even flinch.

 

We are probably not talking about a huge portion of the gaming population here. Raiders and PVP players likely make up a small portion of the playerbase. So the claim that mass bannings for this exploit would "kill the game" is a ludicrous and unrealistic notion IMO.

 

The vast majority of casuals never see OPs, likely never would or have participated in this sort of exploit, and would not be affected by any "exploiter" purge.

 

However...that is not to say that a mass purge would be a wise choice. Certainly any lost revenue is bad for Bioware. And every player is important, even if they belong to a minority in the game.

 

I think, in the end, it is likely that Bioware will handle this properly, tactfully and with the game's well being in mind.

 

they are most likely a much larger portion of subscribers than the general player base. you had to be a subscriber or buy a op pass in order to even do the exploit. this is a bad part of the playerbase to lose. having a bunch of F2ploaders logging in doesnt help the bottom line.

[undiess]

I hope to see all the 198/192 geared people tomorrow, I'd really like to get carried through some operations.

[LordArtemis]

they are most likely a much larger portion of subscribers than the general player base. you had to be a subscriber or buy a op pass in order to even do the exploit. this is a bad part of the playerbase to lose. having a bunch of F2ploaders logging in doesnt help the bottom line.

 

I would strongly disagree. This is entirely speculative, but I would expect that the VAST majority of income comes from casual subscribers.

 

In fact I would bet that PVP and Hardcore raiding folks fall behind even Preferred/F2P folks when it comes to income generation. I would speculate that almost all Hardcore PVP and Raiders refuse to spend anything other than their monthly fee.

 

So, in order of financial contribution to SWTOR and Bioware.....

 

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

 

To break it down even further, completely speculative mind you, I will use the three player rule.

1) 3 players, all casual, all subscribers. One only pays sub fee, other two spend 50 bucks a month on average on the store. - 145.00

2) 3 players, all Preferred. One pays nothing, one pays on average about 10 bucks per month, the other pays 60 a month on average. - 70.00

3) 3 players, all hardcore PVP/Raiders, two pay only sub fee, one pays 10 bucks a month extra on average. - 55.00

 

Now, that said...they are generally the most RELIABLE source of income since they are the least transient, generally speaking. But they still represent a small portion of total revenue....and that is ENTIRELY speculative.

 

The only information that I am aware of, that Bioware has stated publicly back in the day is that subscribers spend the majority of money on the market.

 

But I don't feel it is stretch to assume that the portion of the community that has generally been opposed to any kind of market mechanic in the game, opposed to market sales (calling it "money grabbing, pay to win, etc) would not be spending considerable amounts on that market.

 

Traditional MMO players generally feel 15 bucks a month is enough to cover everything in the game, and that is how it should be for all players.

Edited January 12, 2015 by LordArtemis

[howieloader]

I would strongly disagree. This is entirely speculative, but I would expect that the VAST majority of income comes from casual subscribers.

 

In fact I would bet that PVP and Hardcore raiding folks fall behind even Preferred/F2P folks when it comes to income generation. I would speculate that almost all Hardcore PVP and Raiders refuse to spend anything other than their monthly fee.

 

So, in order of financial contribution to SWTOR and Bioware.....

 

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

 

Source? Link please?

[Kryand]

Everyone should keep in mind that patches have absolutely nothing to do with disciplinary action. Some people may very well have already been punished for severe use of the exploit (or not), and some people may not be punished for another week yet, or longer (if at all). There's nothing magical about the fix for this exploit that will also take action against everyone who used it. Edited January 12, 2015 by Kryand

[leihn]

I would strongly disagree. This is entirely speculative, but I would expect that the VAST majority of income comes from casual subscribers.

 

In fact I would bet that PVP and Hardcore raiding folks fall behind even Preferred/F2P folks when it comes to income generation. I would speculate that almost all Hardcore PVP and Raiders refuse to spend anything other than their monthly fee.

 

So, in order of financial contribution to SWTOR and Bioware.....

 

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

 

To break it down even further, completely speculative mind you, I will use the three player rule.

1) 3 players, all casual, all subscribers. One only pays sub fee, other two spend 50 bucks a month on average on the store. - 145.00

2) 3 players, all Preferred. One pays nothing, one pays on average about 10 bucks per month, the other pays 100 a month on average. - 110.00

3) 3 players, all hardcore PVP/Raiders, two pay only sub fee, one pays 10 bucks a month extra on average. - 55.00

 

Now, that said...they are generally the most RELIABLE source of income since they are the least transient, generally speaking. But they still represent a small portion of total revenue....and that is ENTIRELY speculative.

 

The only information that I am aware of, that Bioware has stated publicly back in the day is that subscribers spend the majority of money on the market.

 

But I don't feel it is stretch to assume that the portion of the community that has generally been opposed to any kind of market mechanic in the game, opposed to market sales (calling it "money grabbing, pay to win, etc) would not be spending considerable amounts on that market.

 

Traditional MMO players generally feel 15 bucks a month is enough to cover everything in the game, and that is how it should be for all players.

 

This speculation makes less sense, you're saying the people who spend more time in the game and play the game more are less likely to spend money than the people who are severely restricted in how they play the game?

[howieloader]

This speculation makes less sense, you're saying the people who spend more time in the game and play the game more are less likely to spend money than the people who are severely restricted in how they play the game?

 

Don't worry, I'm sure he has a source of reference for all of these numbers... I mean... I mean surely... Surely he's not just pulling numbers out of his ***???

 

 

Omg could he???

[Pagy]

got to thinking, why do we assume Tuesday is "ban day"?

 

they are fixing the bug on Tuesday but they never said they are banning players by or on Tuesday.

[ZiggyTank]

This speculation makes less sense, you're saying the people who spend more time in the game and play the game more are less likely to spend money than the people who are severely restricted in how they play the game?

 

So by their random guess at numbers...non subscribers pay more to play less >_>?

 

Ok

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I would strongly disagree. This is entirely speculative, but I would expect that the VAST majority of income comes from casual subscribers.

 

In fact I would bet that PVP and Hardcore raiding folks fall behind even Preferred/F2P folks when it comes to income generation. I would speculate that almost all Hardcore PVP and Raiders refuse to spend anything other than their monthly fee.

 

So, in order of financial contribution to SWTOR and Bioware.....

 

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

 

To break it down even further, completely speculative mind you, I will use the three player rule.

1) 3 players, all casual, all subscribers. One only pays sub fee, other two spend 50 bucks a month on average on the store. - 145.00

2) 3 players, all Preferred. One pays nothing, one pays on average about 10 bucks per month, the other pays 60 a month on average. - 70.00

3) 3 players, all hardcore PVP/Raiders, two pay only sub fee, one pays 10 bucks a month extra on average. - 55.00

 

Now, that said...they are generally the most RELIABLE source of income since they are the least transient, generally speaking. But they still represent a small portion of total revenue....and that is ENTIRELY speculative.

 

The only information that I am aware of, that Bioware has stated publicly back in the day is that subscribers spend the majority of money on the market.

 

But I don't feel it is stretch to assume that the portion of the community that has generally been opposed to any kind of market mechanic in the game, opposed to market sales (calling it "money grabbing, pay to win, etc) would not be spending considerable amounts on that market.

 

Traditional MMO players generally feel 15 bucks a month is enough to cover everything in the game, and that is how it should be for all players.

 

I understand that you don't raid, but there are a ton of ppl on Harbinger that live for it.

[ZiggyTank]

got to thinking, why do we assume Tuesday is "ban day"?

 

they are fixing the bug on Tuesday but they never said they are banning players by or on Tuesday.

 

Because If people don't get banned Tuesday all the people in the white knight Brigade will wish they had gotten some of that sweet action.

[Pagy]

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

not only is this completely arbitrary and unsupported, but completely subjective based on ones definition of "casual" and "hardcore"

[ZiggyTank]

I understand that you don't raid, but there are a ton of ppl on Harbinger that live for it.

 

I've also seen more subscribers pump more money on packs than any ftp out there.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I've also seen more subscribers pump more money on packs than any ftp out there.

 

I used to spend around $200 a month on the CM, and I was small potatoes compared to many.

[LordArtemis]

Source? Link please?

 

Speculate

 

There you go.

 

I can source you on the general report information that this information is gleaned from over time however.

 

SuperData Research - Digital games market intelligence

 

Newzoo - market behavior and analytics with a focus on esport gaming

 

Nick Yee - Research scientist at Ubisoft

 

NPD group - Market analytics

NPD group - Video game market analysis

 

You are welcome to peruse the various reports and studies yourself and come to your own conclusions. Naturally, we are all guessing when it comes to this game, as Bioware has released very little information on the subject.

[ivanhedgehog]

I would strongly disagree. This is entirely speculative, but I would expect that the VAST majority of income comes from casual subscribers.

 

In fact I would bet that PVP and Hardcore raiding folks fall behind even Preferred/F2P folks when it comes to income generation. I would speculate that almost all Hardcore PVP and Raiders refuse to spend anything other than their monthly fee.

 

So, in order of financial contribution to SWTOR and Bioware.....

 

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

 

To break it down even further, completely speculative mind you, I will use the three player rule.

1) 3 players, all casual, all subscribers. One only pays sub fee, other two spend 50 bucks a month on average on the store. - 145.00

2) 3 players, all Preferred. One pays nothing, one pays on average about 10 bucks per month, the other pays 60 a month on average. - 70.00

3) 3 players, all hardcore PVP/Raiders, two pay only sub fee, one pays 10 bucks a month extra on average. - 55.00

 

Now, that said...they are generally the most RELIABLE source of income since they are the least transient, generally speaking. But they still represent a small portion of total revenue....and that is ENTIRELY speculative.

 

The only information that I am aware of, that Bioware has stated publicly back in the day is that subscribers spend the majority of money on the market.

 

But I don't feel it is stretch to assume that the portion of the community that has generally been opposed to any kind of market mechanic in the game, opposed to market sales (calling it "money grabbing, pay to win, etc) would not be spending considerable amounts on that market.

 

Traditional MMO players generally feel 15 bucks a month is enough to cover everything in the game, and that is how it should be for all players.

 

you are making this up out of thin air. it is a fact that you must either be a subscriber or have purchased the monthly unlocks to access raid content. dedicated pvpers must also be a sub or purchase the unlock to have full access. the devs have said that a majority of cartel coins are bought by subscribers. anything else is conjecture. we have no way of knowing what the breakdown between sub/pref/f2p is. we can be sure the the subscribers are paying $15 at minimum and that is all we can be sure of.

[LordArtemis]

This speculation makes less sense, you're saying the people who spend more time in the game and play the game more are less likely to spend money than the people who are severely restricted in how they play the game?

 

....yes. Generally speaking of course. If I had to answer I would say yes.

Edited January 12, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Drockter]

Because If people don't get banned Tuesday all the people in the white knight Brigade will wish they had gotten some of that sweet action.

 

Not even remotely close.

[BobbaJohn]

Totally this... we get okay Ultimate Comm's in the new operations, but you can just go back and do the OLD operations for more/easy Ultimate Comm's and get your 150 max pretty easy. Why? I should not be able to have a 198 Comm's Offhand in the first week by running OLD content. That surely couldn't have been the intention with all the effort to gut how we get ultimate comms in game now.

 

This: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=789364

[LordArtemis]

you are making this up out of thin air.

 

No I am not. I am speculating of course, but basing those speculations on hard industry data. Whether or not industry norms apply to this game is HIGHLY speculative, as clearly indicated in the post.

 

it is a fact that you must either be a subscriber or have purchased the monthly unlocks to access raid content. dedicated pvpers must also be a sub or purchase the unlock to have full access. the devs have said that a majority of cartel coins are bought by subscribers. anything else is conjecture. we have no way of knowing what the breakdown between sub/pref/f2p is. we can be sure the the subscribers are paying $15 at minimum and that is all we can be sure of.

 

Both points were already covered in post, clearly so. So I am not sure how you feel this counters my speculations, or if that was your intent.

[LordArtemis]

not only is this completely arbitrary and unsupported, but completely subjective based on ones definition of "casual" and "hardcore"

 

Not completely arbitrary, certainly unsupported from the perspective of this game...but not market norms.

 

And yes, it is completely subjective based on my definitions of casual and hardcore, ones I have formed from the reports and studies that I have read....which I do not always agree with, and are often unclear or contradictory in their own classification criteria.

 

Other than arbitrary I think your post and view on my opinion in this respect is fair and accurate.

[BuriDogshin]

f the ban was handed out prior to the email... well, they wouldn't be in game talking about it.

Did it not occur to you that some people may have been punished, the term used in the original post claiming that emails on the matter have been received, but not banned? Obviously, any that were banned won't be heard from in-game, or here either I'd think.

 

But the original post you quoted does not contain the word "ban." You illogically leapt from "punished" to "banned" with no evidence that anyone ever claimed to have been banned.

[Drockter]

I've also seen more subscribers pump more money on packs than any ftp out there.

 

These types of things always make me make a weird face at the screen... you ask for evidence, then provide anecdotal evidence of your own.

 

Its all conjecture... your opinion, and his opinion. Especially on this topic.

[DawnAskham]

I would strongly disagree. This is entirely speculative, but I would expect that the VAST majority of income comes from casual subscribers.

 

In fact I would bet that PVP and Hardcore raiding folks fall behind even Preferred/F2P folks when it comes to income generation. I would speculate that almost all Hardcore PVP and Raiders refuse to spend anything other than their monthly fee.

 

So, in order of financial contribution to SWTOR and Bioware.....

 

1) Casual subscribers

2) F2P and Preferred players

3) Hardcore PVP/Raiders

 

To break it down even further, completely speculative mind you, I will use the three player rule.

1) 3 players, all casual, all subscribers. One only pays sub fee, other two spend 50 bucks a month on average on the store. - 145.00

2) 3 players, all Preferred. One pays nothing, one pays on average about 10 bucks per month, the other pays 60 a month on average. - 70.00

3) 3 players, all hardcore PVP/Raiders, two pay only sub fee, one pays 10 bucks a month extra on average. - 55.00

 

Now, that said...they are generally the most RELIABLE source of income since they are the least transient, generally speaking. But they still represent a small portion of total revenue....and that is ENTIRELY speculative.

 

The only information that I am aware of, that Bioware has stated publicly back in the day is that subscribers spend the majority of money on the market.

 

But I don't feel it is stretch to assume that the portion of the community that has generally been opposed to any kind of market mechanic in the game, opposed to market sales (calling it "money grabbing, pay to win, etc) would not be spending considerable amounts on that market.

 

Traditional MMO players generally feel 15 bucks a month is enough to cover everything in the game, and that is how it should be for all players.

 

Utter nonsense.

 

I get you hate group content and seem to think most people never touch it, but in my experience, even people who deem themselves 'casual' and who play this game more for the story and Star Wars experience do participate in operations and other group content - albeit in a more casual nature than players focused on hard progression content.

 

On my server, the larger social guilds (not smaller niche progression guilds) tend to be filled with players who subscribe, who buy lots of cartel packs, and participate in all aspects of the game, including operations.

 

I've yet to run into a reasonably sized guild that bills itself 'casual' that doesn't at least run SM operations and participate in unranked PVP.

 

So please show us some real facts and figures from EA supporting your argument or just drop this nonsense that F2P players who don't participate in Operations spend more money on this game than subscribers who do, or that the 'vast majority' of people who spend money never participate in any Operations or other group content.

Edited January 12, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Pagy]

Speculate

 

There you go.

 

I can source you on the general report information that this information is gleaned from over time however.

 

SuperData Research - Digital games market intelligence

 

Newzoo - market behavior and analytics with a focus on esport gaming

 

Nick Yee - Research scientist at Ubisoft

 

NPD group - Market analytics

NPD group - Video game market analysis

 

You are welcome to peruse the various reports and studies yourself and come to your own conclusions. Naturally, we are all guessing when it comes to this game, as Bioware has released very little information on the subject.

are you going to provide data considering swtor or just continue to use irrelevant video game market data? not only is swtor sub-based but also dependant on micro-transactions.

 

furthermore, you're using terms like "casual" and "hardcore" and attempting to correlate time spent in game with their micro-transaction behaviour.

 

you have zero data and zero facts within the swtor context. and you persisting with these arbitrary and unsupported claims time and time again is laughable.