regarding punishment for exploit

[howieloader]

*popcorn*

[BuriDogshin]

How about no? BW must put their foot down, without mercy.

Why?

 

BW's anti-exploit clause is limited to exploits that "give an unfair advantage." The various theories I've seen supporting this exploit giving an unfair advantage are (unlike the just-patched CC-RE bug) pretty attenuated when it comes to people who did not sell the lockout. Let's look at them:

 

1) Players who are crafters were harmed by the influx of mats and schematics: the market for 186 gear might be, but on the other hand the market for 192 crafted gear is booming. And I don't see where the "unfair advantage" is: anyone who can craft 186 can buy some 192 stuff, RE it, and start selling 192s.

 

2) My raid group won't want me because my gear is lame: some raid groups might be this naive, but the ones I know are more concerned with player skill and not being a jerk in Mumble. All the BiS gear in the world won't make you an asset to the team if you die in the first 2 minutes of the pull because you stood in stupid. And few people enjoy running with people who are unpleasant in voice chat. Besides, especially in 16 man, why would anyone care how you are geared if the raid is half-full of competent players in optimized 198 gear? They can carry you more easily, which is an advantage to you, not an unfair advantage.

 

The only other advantage is the mats, which you can probably make some good money on, but only by providing them or something made from them to another player, so that other player is benefiting too (or they wouldn't pay your price.) Seems fair. And you are providing a service to the player base (e.g. 192 hilts/barrels).

 

So, explain it to me: how did the exploit give players such an unfair advantage over the other PvE players that "BW must put their foot down, no mercy" ?

[Rafaman]

Lol! So... OP... who the hec are you again? Please regale us with your gaming prowess. Do you hang out with Sir Copperfield?

[ivanhedgehog]

Spin is not a necessarily a lie. "Many" is not necessarily a majority, and "few" can mean tens of thousands: the terms used in Eric's post are open to widely varying interpretations. People should avoid reading more into those terms than they should.

 

Eric's posts are all intended to make some amount of the player base happy. So they will be spun in that direction, while at the same time not providing any data that could be used to BioWare's detriment. In this case, the post may also be intentionally designed to produce a week of "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" in exploiters, as a way of punishing them.

 

But imagine if 60% of the people who bought SoR, that is, 60% of the players that were capable of doing the exploit, did it: do you think BioWare would ever admit that or even post something that might lead you to think that?

 

Erics post is intended to draw away attention from the comms nerf and let people chew on eachother fior the next week. he has not always been truthful. the gamble pack with the variable rarities comes to mind...first it was a bug that then it became an experiment. as if they didnt know what changes were in a patch....for 3 days. the next wee will be full of vitriol and hate, without people talking about how few ultimate coms are really available.

[ivanhedgehog]

Love the idea at the top of the post. Maybe a title. "The Honest". and then theres this. Remember when Dread Palace was bugged? Council was impossible to clear. How much gear was lost on just that bug? Any how many other massive bugs have hit flashpoints and ops over the years? Now that one bug throws free gear our way, Bioware is bringing out the knives. Think about it.

 

if they can track things that well then they can fix all the achievments they lied about not being able to find. and all the nondropped loot and any of dozens of other things they claimed they couldnt track.

[Drockter]

Feel free to examine my gear, my achievements.... I have nothing to be hide or be worried about.

 

I'm on nightly... generally after 7 EST. See ya soon

[Edzew]

I don't believe anyone will either, If they ban 1 single person for it then by all rights they should ban EVERY SINGLE PERSON who used it. This would easily be 40%-60% of the player base. They knew it was broke before release and did NOTHING about it. Of course people are going to use this once they find out. Just like Nefra, EVERYONE was doing it and when they FINALLY did do something it was a weak arse fix that only made it slighty longer to do nefra. And since Bioware wants to act like they dropped a set of balls finally then they should be going after the HARD CORE raiding guilds that abused this the most.

 

40 - 60%?? i doubt that and i really hope they do ban every single last one o yall... ill laugh till i wet my self and im not talking one week ban i mean lifetime ban everything on all your characters deleted on all servers.

[Drockter]

Its funny... the more people like the OP post... the less lenient I hope BW becomes... seriously... I don't think these threads and types of responses are helping the posters, nor those who did the exploit (maybe not egregiously)... if anything I think it is hurting their chances of not getting punished.

 

If you don't care what they do, and it wont bother you to be banned... unsub, and uninstall.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Dont feed the troll....

[Drockter]

Dont feed the troll....

 

I know... I know... but its like a car wreck, you can't help but slow down and look.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

1) Players who are crafters were harmed by the influx of mats and schematics: the market for 186 gear might be, but on the other hand the market for 192 crafted gear is booming. And I don't see where the "unfair advantage" is: anyone who can craft 186 can buy some 192 stuff, RE it, and start selling 192s.

 

Which in turn hurts the 'legit' 192 crafters? The ones who went ( or will/could have ) to the effort to legitimately complete content then risk the RE to get the schem and then as a reward be one of the few able to list their mats on the GTN to make a substantial profit.

 

I'm not entirely getting where you are coming frmo here but it seems that you believe because the 192 market is "booming" that no one is affected?

 

Just because "yay now everyone can get 192's cheaper" doesn't mean the legit players weren't affected and it doesn't mean the cheaters haven't made a HUGE profit from it.

 

2) My raid group won't want me because my gear is lame: some raid groups might be this naive, but the ones I know are more concerned with player skill and not being a jerk in Mumble. All the BiS gear in the world won't make you an asset to the team if you die in the first 2 minutes of the pull because you stood in stupid. And few people enjoy running with people who are unpleasant in voice chat. Besides, especially in 16 man, why would anyone care how you are geared if the raid is half-full of competent players in optimized 198 gear? They can carry you more easily, which is an advantage to you, not an unfair advantage.

 

Majority of raids I see tend to be 8M ( especially with current gear drops ) and I would assume most raiding guilds have more than 8 competent players in them. If you remove the players competency from the equation all that is left is gear when choosing between players to raid with.

 

I mean you can make your assumptions above that it all balances out that way just as I can make mine that it does not and it is indeed unfair, if however you are geared in cheated 198's I guess you will never find out how your point of view stands up yet even that one time I get rejected from an op because of not being in 198's will pretty much substantiate my point of view. I paid to play and got rejected from an op because of cheaters.

[Sangrar]

I don't agree. We shouldn't need rewards to do the right thing, once in a while doing something great merits a reward naturally, but in this instance, all people did was simply choose not to break the rules just like millions of other gamers do on a daily basis.

[Max_Killjoy]

Why?

 

BW's anti-exploit clause is limited to exploits that "give an unfair advantage." The various theories I've seen supporting this exploit giving an unfair advantage are (unlike the just-patched CC-RE bug) pretty attenuated when it comes to people who did not sell the lockout. Let's look at them:

 

1) Players who are crafters were harmed by the influx of mats and schematics: the market for 186 gear might be, but on the other hand the market for 192 crafted gear is booming. And I don't see where the "unfair advantage" is: anyone who can craft 186 can buy some 192 stuff, RE it, and start selling 192s.

 

2) My raid group won't want me because my gear is lame: some raid groups might be this naive, but the ones I know are more concerned with player skill and not being a jerk in Mumble. All the BiS gear in the world won't make you an asset to the team if you die in the first 2 minutes of the pull because you stood in stupid. And few people enjoy running with people who are unpleasant in voice chat. Besides, especially in 16 man, why would anyone care how you are geared if the raid is half-full of competent players in optimized 198 gear? They can carry you more easily, which is an advantage to you, not an unfair advantage.

 

The only other advantage is the mats, which you can probably make some good money on, but only by providing them or something made from them to another player, so that other player is benefiting too (or they wouldn't pay your price.) Seems fair. And you are providing a service to the player base (e.g. 192 hilts/barrels).

 

So, explain it to me: how did the exploit give players such an unfair advantage over the other PvE players that "BW must put their foot down, no mercy" ?

 

I'm still mystified by the "dial it to 11" outrage -- I've yet to see a rational presentation of material lasting harm done to any other players by the exploiters. How was or will anyone's actual gameplay be negatively affected?

 

A temporary downturn in market prices of certain stuff? Benefits at least as many players as it hypothetically inconveniences.

 

More people would have been geared for endgame? Still can't figure out how that's bad when so many players are complaining about the lack of people don't higher FPs and Ops, and spamming chats LFG/LFM.

 

I guess I'm just libertarian enough that I'm more concerned with how players are actually hurt by something, than I am with "moral outrage" over pixels that doesn't so much as an inconvenience. At least some of the things people complain about actually cause some inconvenience to other players or degrade their enjoyment of the game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I've yet to see a rational presentation of material lasting harm done to any other players by the exploiters. How was or will anyone's actual gameplay be negatively affected?

 

There has been plenty within numerous threads and I've not really seen any of it discounted as not being rational or even legitimate gripes/complaints etc. as to personal effects of this.

 

You either don't agree with these points of view ( fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion ) and choose not to debate them with the people putting them forward or are just so bias in this whole affair ( be it through guilt or for other reasons ) that you fail to recognise it and still pretend like nothing anyone is posting is of any substance.

 

Ignoring the points and those making them directly and then making blanket statements how there are no rational reasons for any downside from the exploit those that did not partake in it have experienced doesn't really make it true ... it kind of makes you ignorant.

[Strigov]

And I will write the game off if they DON'T ban you. Simply because I don't play games where the rules are not enforced.

 

So one of us will be gone no matter what they do, neither of us can say who will BW listen to, or should listen to.

 

LOL, but why you're still here? Devs didn't ban anyone for Nefra Nim exploit likewise for RWZ fixed matching. Delete game right now!

[Max_Killjoy]

There has been plenty within numerous threads and I've not really seen any of it discounted as not being rational or even legitimate gripes/complaints etc. as to personal effects of this.

 

You either don't agree with these points of view ( fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion ) and choose not to debate them with the people putting them forward or are just so bias in this whole affair ( be it through guilt or for other reasons ) that you fail to recognise it and still pretend like nothing anyone is posting is of any substance.

 

Ignoring the points and those making them directly and then making blanket statements how there are no rational reasons for any downside from the exploit those that did not partake in it have experienced doesn't really make it true ... it kind of makes you ignorant.

 

Let's see, you gave me checkoffs for "disagreement equals ignorance" and "you're just biased" and "maybe you're one of them since you won't support us".

 

I'm close to winning another round of "internet fallback bingo".

 

No one has presented anything that amounts to more than a blow to their feels ("People are getting stuff that I don't feel they should!") or a transient inconvenience offset by greater positives ("people with better gear will get into the occasional raid before me!" and never mind that more people would have had gear to do the content and thus there will be more runs) or what amounts to selfishness hiding behind self-righteousness ("My exclusive market to gouge people on GTN has been damaged!")

 

Furthermore, we've need NOTHING to justify the level of outrage and spite this has generated, nothing to justify the demands for lifelong bans and punishments for those "tainted" by so much as having bought something on GTN, and certainly nothing to justify the way anyone questioning that accusation has been attacked in a "if you're not one of us, you must be one of them" mob-mentality.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[iDraxter]

I'll take working Jetpacks since I didn't exploit.

i`ll take that offer aswell

[Clarian]

I'll take working Jetpacks since I didn't exploit.

I'll take...hmm, gotta pick something good...I'll take Kallig's mask going under hoods. Either that, or a fix for the hood clipping on the Diabolist robe.

[saremun]

No thanks. I don't ask for a cookie from my local police department every time I obey a traffic light. People knowingly chose to break the rules, they should be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions.

 

^^ Yepe totaly agree with you!.

[Preston_Violent]

Freaking cheaters / exploit users got so overly bold that it should be embarrassing for BW. A few dozens of cheaters think they can really damage BW income? Oh really, "don't bite the hand"? Read again Eric's post, cheaters are few and so are the feeding hands about to be "bitten".

 

You are pathetic, lame and once again pathetic for using threats, trying distractions like petitions and posts about bugs and CS quality because you're so scared of being stripped of the stuff you had no legitimate right for and getting banned, temporarily or permanently. Or maybe you think that if you add a few magic words like "I'm a founder / subscriber" / "I played since beta", it will help?

 

Besides, if cheaters, by simply using generic threats like "how dare you even consider banning a founder-subscriber, I'm the hand that feeds", will really "bully" BW into not taking any actions, it will be pretty damaging for BW / EA reputation and whatever future mmo they'll come up with.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Preston_Violent

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'm close to winning another round of "internet fallback bingo".

 

No one has presented anything that amounts to more than a blow to their feels ("People are getting stuff that I don't feel they should!") or a transient inconvenience offset by greater positives ("people with better gear will get into the occasional raid before me!" and never mind that more people would have had gear to do the content and thus there will be more runs) or what amounts to selfishness hiding behind self-righteousness ("My exclusive market to gouge people on GTN has been damaged!")

 

Furthermore, we've need NOTHING to justify the level of outrage and spite this has generated, nothing to justify the demands for lifelong bans and punishments for those "tainted" by so much as having bought something on GTN, and certainly nothing to justify the way anyone questioning that accusation has been attacked in a "if you're not one of us, you must be one of them" mob-mentality.

 

Winning a round of doing what you do anyway then? Certainly not a round of logical argument or debate since everything you seem to say is completely unsubstantiated.

 

You quote "blow to their feels". Again that is your opinion ( a pretty poor one at best but what more do we expect from a common house troll ) and you are entitled to it but it doesn't detract from the fact you are plain wrong in your thinking this exploit hasn't done any harm. If it had done no harm then people wouldn't need complain about it ( everyone had the chance to do it and were complaining long before it got closed, like a month before ) and Bioware wouldn't feel the need to take action against those that did exploit it.

 

To use someones else's point to illustrate this we could look at fleet datacron pulls. They, as the person pointed out, could be deemed to be an exploit and the risk is there as a result of doing so. However as this is something that ACTUALLY does no harm to the game no one feels the urge to complain or report it and BW don't feel the need to even stop it or punish anyone that has done it.

 

As for the GTN and "selfishness" that's just a stupid point of view to take. Marketing/GTN playing is a major aspect for many players in this game which then entails crew skills with it. In fact it's one of my favoured aspects of the game. If you think people doing the work to get exclusive items to sell at a large mark up is "selfish" ... don't buy it. However though with your attitude I'm sure then you will never buy cartel packs or gather materials or craft anything and sell it for any sort of overly large mark up. I'm sure if you've ever sold anything in this game you've probably sold it at cost right because that's fair not selfish.

 

Funny how you instantly think everyone is out for blood also. There have been a few extreme people calling for like bans and that's their perogative and opinion just as it's probably yours that you should probably get no punishment and that it's probably all Bioware's fault. However the majority of opinions are in the middle, removal of ill-gotten gains and a temp ban suited to the level of offended if it was recidivist. Someone who may have only done it once probably doesn't need a ban.

 

Just because everyone thinks the exploiters are dirty cheaters doesn't make them the wrong ones or acting on mob mentality. Some people have morals and some people weren't as pissed off as what they became when they started seeing people like you throwing around all the lame excuses and justifications under the sun to defend their CHEATING. You do get that right? That it's cheating? You can try tame it all you like but if you did this exploit you are a cheat.

 

Heck there's a new imaginative punishment. No ban, just removal of gear and a new unremovable title of Cheater for a month.

[ptwonline]

A few dozens of cheaters think they can really damage BW income? Oh really, "don't bite the hand"? Read again Eric's post, cheaters are few and so are the feeding hands about to be "bitten".

 

 

I have only anecdotal data to use, but if I had to guess, my guess is that the number of unique accounts that exploited this is several hundred per server on average.

[Max_Killjoy]

Funny how you instantly think everyone is out for blood also. There have been a few extreme people calling for like bans and that's their perogative and opinion just as it's probably yours that you should probably get no punishment and that it's probably all Bioware's fault. However the majority of opinions are in the middle, removal of ill-gotten gains and a temp ban suited to the level of offended if it was recidivist. Someone who may have only done it once probably doesn't need a ban.

 

Just because everyone thinks the exploiters are dirty cheaters doesn't make them the wrong ones or acting on mob mentality. Some people have morals and some people weren't as pissed off as what they became when they started seeing people like you throwing around all the lame excuses and justifications under the sun to defend their CHEATING.

 

Sorry, you invalidated your entire post with these two lines, come back and try again when you can avoid committing these tired witch-hunter fallacies. Accusing anyone who won't jump on your bandwagon of being one of the "cheaters" or of "defending cheaters" is classic mob-mentality nonsense.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Preston_Violent]

I have only anecdotal data to use, but if I had to guess, my guess is that the number of unique accounts that exploited this is several hundred per server on average.

 

We can only guess but I tend to believe they're no more than a few dozens. But then again, I personally would be somewhat embarrassed to continue playing a mmo run by such monsters as EA/BW where someone can freely use exploits and then just go to the forum, shout "hey I'm a founder and subscriber, don't dare touch my gear / credits or do anything against my normal signing in and playing because me and other cheaters are the feeding hands of this game" and get away with that.

And BW would just frown, post a warning and allow them to go unpunished? We will see soon but at this point I don't wanna believe that BW will make such a laughingstock of themselves. Don't know about other games but EA did hand out quite a few bans to people who cheated in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer and in that game it means far less for it's pure 4 man cooperative pve.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Preston_Violent

[Quraswren]

We can only guess but I tend to believe they're no more than a few dozens. But then again, I personally would be somewhat embarrassed to continue playing a mmo run by such monsters as EA/BW where someone can freely use exploits and then just go to the forum, shout "hey I'm a founder and subscriber, don't dare touch my gear / credits or do anything against my normal signing in and playing because me and other cheaters are the feeding hands of this game" and get away with that.

And BW would just frown, post a warning and allow them to go unpunished? We will see soon but at this point I don't wanna believe that BW will make such a laughingstock of themselves. Don't know about other games but EA did hand out quite a few bans to people who cheated in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer and in that game it means far less for it's pure 4 man cooperative pve.

 

Bingo.

 

I would imagine letting this one slip by with nothing happening is rather slim. Especially with how some flaunted using it and their probably not the worst offenders.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Quraswren