Andryah Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think, in the end, it is likely that Bioware will handle this properly, tactfully and with the game's well being in mind. /Agreed. Particularly since "properly" can only be defined and implemented as Bioware sees fit. Personally, while I do not agree with every decision and action made by Bioware, they are IMO consistently thoughtful, mature and professional about it. I'm glad it is up to them and NOT the pitch fork mob aimlessly attacking the stone walls of the castle with pitch forks and poop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Ah yes, I have not participate in the exploit, but I have a feeling I'm in the minority. I'd be down with a reward for good little boys such as myself instead of banning everyone on my server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Did anyone say these emails were sent in advance of an account being suspended or terminated? There's no reason for BioWare to wait until tomorrow to impose sanctions, and good reasons for them to impose sanctions as soon as they have identified who to sanction and how. For example, my wife saw someone spamming fleet chat trying to sell the exploit. If someone reported the spam, that player could and many think should have been sanctioned immediately after BioWare finished processing the spam report. True... but when you get that email (based on the ones I have seen shared publicly), they only indicate a general category for a ban. Such as: "Economy exploit, extreme", NOT the specifics of what you did. So.. yeah, I am sure we have bogus claims of notifications scattered among real ones. That is after all the nature of some MMO players... to conflate, distort, and misdirect. Virtual life mimics real life. Edited January 12, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyTank Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Ah yes, I have not participate in the exploit, but I have a feeling I'm in the minority. I'd be down with a reward for good little boys such as myself instead of banning everyone on my server. Me too, I'd like a reward for not exploiting anything since launch. Oh wait, didn't happen. Also nothing happened to those exploiters :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hachibushu Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Me too, I'd like a reward for not exploiting anything since launch. Oh wait, didn't happen. Also nothing happened to those exploiters :/ Hmmm... one should be rewarded for doing the right thing? Silly me, I thought doing the right thing was it's own reward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) No. You know it's wrong. It's black and white according to the other guy. This absolutely, 100%, seems "unintended". Doing it, via an intended method or not, doesn't make it 'not an exploit'. There's no less cheating just because it takes you longer...it's still seems like a clearly unintentional thing. I didn't say "normal gameplay" makes it 'not a exploit', only that it is a factor in these matters, e.g. when determining how severe an exploit (and the potential punishment) is. Edited January 12, 2015 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Did anyone say these emails were sent in advance of an account being suspended or terminated? There's no reason for BioWare to wait until tomorrow to impose sanctions, and good reasons for them to impose sanctions as soon as they have identified who to sanction and how. For example, my wife saw someone spamming fleet chat trying to sell the exploit. If someone reported the spam, that player could and many think should have been sanctioned immediately after BioWare finished processing the spam report. *facepalm* Yes, in the quote of the post you are quoting, that is EXACTLY what they are saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hmmm... one should be rewarded for doing the right thing? Silly me, I thought doing the right thing was it's own reward... I said it a few pages back, and I'll say it again... The people that want something for not doing something they think is wrong in the first place are hilarious... It's the same logic as saying "Government, I deserve money because I've never been arrested..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I didn't say "normal gameplay" makes it 'not a exploit', only that it is a factor in these matters, e.g. when determining how severe an exploit (and the potential punishment) is. OK, that's good. We can both agree that any comms (elite or ultimate) gotten from the old Ops is clearly an exploit since it seems perfectly clear that it is unintended. Those players continuing to exploit the old Ops should probably be punished in some way too, don't you think?! I mean, they're able to buy 192/198 gear, which is the same level of gear from the other exploit. They clearly have not earned their 192/198 gear...that gear level is meant for the few, not the DF/DP crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 That's the problem I have with BW's approach to exploits, which in all fairness is not unique among developers. The theory is that if people aren't widely aware of an exploit it won't be abused by as many people who are playing the game. The problem is that what is and isn't an exploit isn't always as clear cut as it is in this instance (assuming it is clear cut, as I also don't know the exact nature of this exploit). Quite frankly, there should be no problem with a dev outlining the nature of any exploit once they are aware of one, so that the playerbase is informed of what the exploit is, with the clear understanding that if anyone exploits the exploit from that point forward, permanent banning will be a result. This way it avoids confusion and the punishment is clearly outlined and thusly justified. Quite frankly, this method should stop the amount of exploiting instead of increasing it.agree, silence does work but only when you resolve the issue quickly. that is the best method of containment. if the exploit is allowed to go on for 3 weeks unfixed, i think the best policy is to comment on it, and threaten people with action. its the only way they can deter people from doing it again if they dont fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 /Agreed. Particularly since "properly" can only be defined and implemented as Bioware sees fit. Personally, while I do not agree with every decision and action made by Bioware, they are IMO consistently thoughtful, mature and professional about it. I'm glad it is up to them and NOT the pitch fork mob aimlessly attacking the stone walls of the castle with pitch forks and poop. So am I. I am not sure even I could make the right decision as to what to do here...I would not want to be the one that has to make such decisions. It can't be an easy choice. Every choice has potential drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) OK, that's good. We can both agree that any comms (elite or ultimate) gotten from the old Ops is clearly an exploit since it seems perfectly clear that it is unintended. Those players continuing to exploit the old Ops should probably be punished in some way too, don't you think?! I mean, they're able to buy 192/198 gear, which is the same level of gear from the other exploit. They clearly have not earned their 192/198 gear...that gear level is meant for the few, not the DF/DP crowd. Perhaps a warning and/or some kind of "comms removal", but any further action would be unreasonable IMO. There are several factors to the "going around" exploit that IMO makes it orders of magnitude more severe than the commendations issue. It may be the same level of gear gained, but there's still big differences between commendation gear and Best-In-Slot set bonus gear. Edited January 12, 2015 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Perhaps a warning and/or some kind of "comms removal", but any further action would be unreasonable IMO. There are several factors to the "going around" exploit that IMO makes it orders of magnitude more severe than the commendations issue. Doubt they would take it that lightly, with all the exploited gear flowing through the market and all the non legitimate gear that some have atm. They let this slide with ESO and it lost more than 70% of there starting population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I said it a few pages back, and I'll say it again... The people that want something for not doing something they think is wrong in the first place are hilarious... It's the same logic as saying "Government, I deserve money because I've never been arrested..."dont look at it that way. its just another option to enforce the behaviour bw wants; not exploiting. no one is saying they DESERVE a reward, just that positive reinforcement of expected behaviour is an option. as are negative reinforcement, and punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Doubt they would take it that lightly, with all the exploited gear flowing through the market and all the non legitimate gear that some have atm. We'll have to wait and see, but I'd be surprised if the people who got ultimate comms from lvl 55ops are punished at all. The people exploiting current operations is hopefully handled differently. They let this slide with ESO and it lost more than 70% of there starting population. ESO lost their players because their game is(was?) utter crap. Edited January 12, 2015 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 ESO lost their players because their game is(was?) utter crap. Actually it had some amazing graphics and story line, its just the end game got old and the constant exploits hacking ruined it for alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 They let this slide with ESO and it lost more than 70% of there starting population.yeah im sure that any mmo losing subs after one month and eso being utter crap had nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Doubt they would take it that lightly, with all the exploited gear flowing through the market and all the non legitimate gear that some have atm. They let this slide with ESO and it lost more than 70% of there starting population. The big drop off was well after the exploit was stopped. People stop playing games when they are bored or they just plain suck. Sure, you may see some people leave a game after a big exploit, but they would have left anyway and it is just an excuse. If they were still having fun with the game itself they would stay despite the exploit and how it was handled. You may as well say you slipped and fell because Mars, Venus and Jupiter were aligned. Two things happening close together to do not make cause and effect. Edited January 12, 2015 by RandomXChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 They let this slide with ESO and it lost more than 70% of there starting population. All games population drops steeply from their starting population... That is a mathematical function of MMOs... That people try to use that in any argument as a justification for something is just sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 OK, that's good. We can both agree that any comms (elite or ultimate) gotten from the old Ops is clearly an exploit since it seems perfectly clear that it is unintended. Those players continuing to exploit the old Ops should probably be punished in some way too, don't you think?! I mean, they're able to buy 192/198 gear, which is the same level of gear from the other exploit. They clearly have not earned their 192/198 gear...that gear level is meant for the few, not the DF/DP crowd. Yet another strawman argument...do you own a hayfield or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) All games population drops steeply from their starting population... That is a mathematical function of MMOs... That people try to use that in any argument as a justification for something is just sad... If you started in ESO I'd probably beg to differ where only a select few out of hundreds of thousands have multiple millions of gold yet 98% of the game barely has a total of like 200-500g each Edited January 12, 2015 by Theeko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 You could in theory stumble upon the exploit unknowingly, but you would know right away if it happened and you gained the unfair advantages and then you're supposed to report it right away. I don't necessarily agree with people saying you must intend to have been exploiting to stumble upon it, I think there's actually a lot of other reasons people could (and might have initially) stumbled upon it. Absolutely correct... stumbling across it unknowingly is one thing... now, taking advantage of what you stumbled across multiple times is quite another. In this case, stumbling across it would be difficult since you needed to be invited to a group (or buy the lockout)... so while I understand that the first time would be unintentional... everytime thereafter would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If you started in ESO I'd probably beg to differ where only a select few out of hundreds of thousands have multiple millions of gold yet 98% of the game barely has a total of like 200-500g each Nothing you just said counters my point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Nothing you just said counters my point... Just pointing out lots of people left since the game got to full of exploits that weren't handled right away and they did nothing to the items that populated through the games economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Did anyone say these emails were sent in advance of an account being suspended or terminated? There's no reason for BioWare to wait until tomorrow to impose sanctions, and good reasons for them to impose sanctions as soon as they have identified who to sanction and how. For example, my wife saw someone spamming fleet chat trying to sell the exploit. If someone reported the spam, that player could and many think should have been sanctioned immediately after BioWare finished processing the spam report. The original poster said this; Maybe, but maybe not. From what is being said, those receiving punishment have already received emails from BW, at least some people on the Harbinger have stated they already got their email stating the what/when/why. Now of course, this is just people saying they got emails, it doesn't mean they really got them or that that is what will happen. I do find that something like that would be more appropriate. Some of you may want blood and to sit back on Tuesday and watch, i don't know what, whatever it is that was gonna get your lynch mob jollies, so I hope BW circumvented this by quietly handing out letters that go into effect this week. Now once again, this is not a confirmed thing, just something people had claimed to have gotten. To be really sure, we will of course have to wait till tomorrow, but even then I don't think there will be any show. Folks will just quietly not be here, and we will all move on. Specifically this line; "at least some people on the Harbinger have stated they already...." To me, that sounds like they were discussing it on Harbinger, which meant they were in-game... again... (as the original poster pointed out) could just be people saying they got their emails... but point beig, if the ban was handed out prior to the email... well, they wouldn't be in game talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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